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Microsoft Surface Pro to start at $899 for 64GB model - Page 2

post #41 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

that's totally different from advertising something with X amount of memory but giving only X/2 memory.

that's a scam right there. 32-16.

How is this any different than any pre-bought computing device that comes with an OS and apps installed? The 64GB MBA has a 64GB SSD card (which is just over 64,000,000,0000 bits — but you get less space for the your files because the OS, it's apps, plus iLife apps are all pre-installed on the device.

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post #42 of 120

Microsoft Tax!!! This thing is expensive and Windows 8 sucks. If you have to spend $1000 and learn new OS people are going to buy MBA instead of this thing.

 

PS. I am surprised no one said "Why this is news on Apple news site?!"

post #43 of 120

Well I am going to get me one

I already added the search to my ebay account.... wont be long before I have plenty of choice.

 

My grand-kids will have this as a collector item - it will probably stay in production about as long as the Kin

post #44 of 120
Good price. I wonder if they're eating the cost? Their main bread and butter is Windows and Office so I'm expecting the Surface Pro to be a loss-leader that they will lose money on to sell their software.

We should wait to see if MS publishes this information separately, or hides the figures like Amazon and Google do.
Edited by waldobushman - 11/29/12 at 4:53pm
post #45 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post

 

If your son wanted an eReader, then why would even consider a tablet? The Kindle is $79.

 

How exactly is a 16GB iPad useless?

The kindle touch is closer to $100 if you can find one.  A mini would be useful for more than just books..  Plus he's a fandroid so it might actually save him from the dark side.

 

Our 32 Gb iPad is almost full, My B-inlaw's 16 Gb iphone doesn't even hold all his music.  It doesn't take very much to fill up 16 Gb.  I wouldn't even consider anything under 32 Gb. YMMV

post #46 of 120
The Surface 128 GB version with keyboard costs about $30 more than an 11.6" Macbook Air 128 GB.

Other comparisons:
- Surface has a smaller screen, but higher screen resolution.
- Air has more ports ( 1x USB3 and 1x Thunderbolt).
- They weigh about the same (the Air is a few ounces heavier).
- No idea about battery life. This model Air is about 5 hours. Surface?

If I need a compact laptop the Air is still a better value to me. If I need a multi-touch tablet, iPad is a much better value.

If I really need a hybrid laptop/tablet (and truth be told I can't imagine why I'd be specifically needing something like that) the Surface is competitive.

That said, Apple's advances with the large, multi-touch trackpads on the Air pretty much satisfy all the multi-touch needs I could imagine having with a regular laptop. So, maybe not that competitive.

I am tending to agree that it's pretty much DOA. I'm sure it will find a niche or two, but it won't ever be a runaway mainstream success like the iOS device family has been.

Just one humble opinion.

EDIT: An afterthought. A lot of people found the original iPad to be just a smidgeon too heavy to be comfortable holding for long periods. It occurred to me this could be significant, since the Surface is weighing in at least 50% heavier. That's fine for a compact laptop, but for a 'handheld' multi-touch tablet? That'd get exhaustingly heavy in a hurry.
Edited by tribalogical - 11/29/12 at 3:23pm
post #47 of 120
Originally Posted by tjwal View Post

Our 32 Gb iPad is almost full, My B-inlaw's 16 Gb iphone doesn't even hold all his music.  It doesn't take very much to fill up 16 Gb.  I wouldn't even consider anything under 32 Gb. YMMV

 

So "useless" for YOU, then. Not actually useless. Got it.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #48 of 120
Meehh.. not surprised. Can anyone really claim to be?
post #49 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

So "useless" for YOU, then. Not actually useless. Got it.Y

Yup, you got it. I use the iPad for a lot more than just streaming, emailing and surfing so a 16 Gb version would be pretty useless.  But regardless of what you use it for it has the same memory limitation as the 64 Gb surface that people are ragging on.

post #50 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post


Only having 1 device instead of two. 

 

And that will be its failing.

 

Anyone who thinks tablets are popular because of the form factor are kidding themselves. The iPad became popular because of its ease of use and stability.

 

 

Windows Tablet computers only found a home in a few very niche markets, why? People were used to keyboard shortcuts and typing. Microsoft added so many keyboard shortcuts, no one knew how to use the damned OS without them.

 

UMPC's were a gimmick - very, very unusable - DOA.

 

Netbooks were all the rage until you sat down and tried to use one... no one bought a second NetBook, and that market has almost completely dried up.

 

 

The issue with these devices... the desktop OS. It's pointer centric targets are made for the tip of an arrow. It's window centric, it's pointless having multiple windows open on a small screen when you can't see or access the content of another window. They're keyboard centric, people felt more productive using keyboard commands since your hand was usually already at the keyboard typing. They're graphically intensive, computing regions, window overlays, etc, requires a lot of horsepower. People are used to multitasking on them, if the device has enough trouble running one application, how's it going to handle running 5 or 6?

 

 


The Surface is a combination of failed markets; Netbooks and Windows Tablets. It is a child that inherited all the wrong traits of both parents.

 

The iPad is an evolution in computing, leaving behind all that made it cumbersome for doing simpler tasks.

Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #51 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

It's *already* DOA, but this time in a more expensive version. 

 

Bravo, Microstupid. Maybe your *next* CEO (if there ever will be one any time soon) will actually have vision that is less than 3 years out of date, and more than 5 feet beyond his personal space. 

Noo! I want Ballmer to remain as CEO for as long as he can shuffle around with his walker... He's the best thing that ever happened to Apple! I don't want no stinkin' vision at MS.

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #52 of 120

Did I miss it? How many minutes does the Pro run on batteries? 

 

I'm betting that with factory fresh batteries this piece of crapo may get a person through a normal meeting... so 60 minutes tops.

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #53 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjwal View Post

Yup, you got it. I use the iPad for a lot more than just streaming, emailing and surfing so a 16 Gb version would be pretty useless.  But regardless of what you use it for it has the same memory limitation as the 64 Gb surface that people are ragging on.

No memory limitation with iCloud standing by... Also, everything in iOS is much less memory intensive as Winders... 

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #54 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjwal View Post

The kindle touch is closer to $100 if you can find one.  A mini would be useful for more than just books..  Plus he's a fandroid so it might actually save him from the dark side.

 

Our 32 Gb iPad is almost full, My B-inlaw's 16 Gb iphone doesn't even hold all his music.  It doesn't take very much to fill up 16 Gb.  I wouldn't even consider anything under 32 Gb. YMMV

De iCloud Boss, de iCloud...!

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #55 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post

EDIT: An afterthought. A lot of people found the original iPad to be just a smidgeon too heavy to be comfortable holding for long periods. It occurred to me this could be significant, since the Surface is weighing in at least 50% heavier. That's fine for a compact laptop, but for a 'handheld' multi-touch tablet? That'd get exhaustingly heavy in a hurry.

 

But think about how nice and toasty your body will be with that Surface Pro space heater humming away...

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #56 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by zak_the_great View Post

$899 if MS makes it with minimum profit it would probably cost more if any other company tries to make it adding some profit margin.

For starters, every OEM will need to shell out about $80 extra just for the Winders 8 OS.

 

THEN, the end user will need to buy the touch version of Office...can't go using the old version...

 

Buying a MBA looks better and better because it will run the current version of Office...

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #57 of 120

For most people, they wil see this as competing with the iPad starting at $329 and $499. Except with nowhere near the useability, portability, battery life, weight, etc.

 

Oh wait, for another $100 you can add a keyboard, so for $1K+ you get a semi-useable, compromise filled windows laptop with a 10" screen that can't even be used on your lap or on the go. 

 

Yeah, Surface is fucked. 


Edited by Slurpy - 11/29/12 at 3:54pm
post #58 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

Did I miss it? How many minutes does the Pro run on batteries? 

 

I'm betting that with factory fresh batteries this piece of crapo may get a person through a normal meeting... so 60 minutes tops.

the surface team said on twitter that this piece of shit has half the battery life of the RT version.

 

So realistically it will have 2h of browsing.

post #59 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

It cannot be stressed enough...

 

DOA
 

Yaaaaaaaawn. Does anybody care less ? So there's a surface. So what ?

post #60 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Microsoft Tax!!! This thing is expensive and Windows 8 sucks. If you have to spend $1000 and learn new OS people are going to buy MBA instead of this thing.

 

PS. I am surprised no one said "Why this is news on Apple news site?!"

Yes. Good question. Who gives a F** ?

post #61 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

No memory limitation with iCloud standing by... Also, everything in iOS is much less memory intensive as Winders... 

 


 

Maybe someday but in a corporate world with IT lockdown the iCloud may as well not exist.

post #62 of 120
Thanks. I'd rather buy a Macbook AIR
post #63 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

1) I wonder how much usable storage you get with that if an Intel version of WIn 8 is installed?

On a brand new desktop with fresh installed Windows 8 Enterprise 64-bit, Office Pro Plus 2010 fully patched and upgraded to Office Pro Plus 2013, you lose about 20GB on Windows (17GB), Program Files and Program Files (86) folders (3GB total).

MS did promise improved updates, but at this stage, we can only guess how will they grow Windows folder size.
Quote:
2) I'm sure there are some use cases that can made for this product but I think most would fair better with a proper laptop for enterprise work.

Agree. But then, tablets are cool, right? And to be honest, they are handier than laptops for some things, especially on the move. Reading contract, rehearsing presentation, checking (but not replying) to emails, video conferencing... in car, bus, train... is more comfy on tablet. One reason or another, some people simply must have them. For some of them, this (and all the other Pro tablets) might be a good compromise. It is still within acceptable tablet size, but functionality from business perspective is well above any other tablet on the market.

We'll see.
post #64 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post

And that will be its failing.

Anyone who thinks tablets are popular because of the form factor are kidding themselves. The iPad became popular because of its ease of use and stability.

When I preordered the iPad 1 the first day it was available, I thought the iPad finally realized the promise of portable computing that laptops and netbooks failed at (this was before the MacBook Air). My iPad mini with its lightness, thinness, and keyboard-lessness (haha) takes this even farther, and with the bigger display, it's a different and sometimes better computing experience than my iPhone.
post #65 of 120
post #66 of 120

Wow what a bunch of hateful people!

I have been using both Apple, MS, Linux on a combo of different hardware platforms over the years and all have a purpose.

I have a 2011 MacBook Pro 15 maxed out with 480GB SSD, 16 GB ram Thunderbolt monitor running OS X 10.8.3 office 2011 for mac

2010 MacBook Pro 13 240gb SSD 6GB ram running OS X 10.8.3 office 2011 for mac

iPhone 5 64gb

iPhone 4s 32gb

iPad2 32gb

iPad3 32gb

2010 MacMini Server

Dell Servers running VMware 5 with multiple server os's

Dell XPS 8500 maxed out running Windows 8 pro 64bit, office 2013 pro

Alienware m11x3 maxed out running Windows 8 pro 64bit, office 2013 pro

Alienware m14x2 maxed out running Windows 8 pro 64bit, office 2013 pro

Acer W700-6691 Tablet PC i5-3317u CPU 4gb memory running Windows 8 pro 64bit, office 2013 pro, came with BT keyboard, Docking station $699. with Black Friday discount from Newegg.com pretty much the exact same hardware as the new MS Surface Pro and Windows 8 has sold more OS's in a month than OS X in 4 months.

The Acer feels as fast and can do way more than my iPad's can ever think of include manage Enterprise servers and workstations.

 

All have good and bad points but cant say that any one of them is the end all.

the Fan Boys on both side are really sad and need to wake up.

My MacBook Pro's can barely play current games anymore...

the Acer can almost out perform the MacBook Pro's in WoW, GuildWars and many other games for 1/3 of the total price.

 
 
post #67 of 120
I don't understand ...

Where does the keyboard go when using it as a tablet? Does it wrap around the back like an iPad Smart Cover? But then how do you keep from pressing keys when you hold it? Or, do you have to remove it? Or does it reverse (though it still seems like the keys would be pressed through the back of the keyboard)?

Either way, this does not seem like a reasonable solution.

And how do you use the desktop OS and legacy apps when holding it as a tablet, if the keyboard is wrapped around the back, or removed completely?

There's also the problem of holding it in hand as a tablet if its designed to operate in landscape mode considering it weighs as much as a MacBook Air. Just try holding one of those by the side and supporting it that way for any length of time with one hand.

Supporting a laptop like the MBA in one hand from the bottom is certainly much easier. The touchscreen ultrabooks really have something to offer,as I would love the option to touch my Mac's screen sometimes, but this thing ... I just don't see it.

People WILL compare this to the iPad, and the fact it doesn't auto-switch orientation is going to sour people on this before they've even had a chance to explore it very far.
post #68 of 120
My god the people who work at MS are idiots. Why in the world would they compare the battery life of the Pro to the RT? If they has said it gets the same battery life as Ultrabooks it would have sounded so much better than saying it gets half the battery life of RT. 1oyvey.gif
post #69 of 120

For an iPad or iPhone, going from 16 --> 32 --> 64 GB is $100. So in the second case, the upgrade is from 32 --> 64, the $100 are buying you 32 GB of extra storage.

 

For a Mac Book Air (MBA), the jump from 64 --> 64 GB is $100

 

Microsoft is advertising a jump from 64 -->128 GB for $100, similar to the MBA.

post #70 of 120
I really like the Surface RT, but it shows Microsoft's knack for getting 90% of the way there and then losing their way.

I never thought that another tablet could make the iPad feel cheap, but Surface manages to do just that. The build quality on the thing is fantastic. The flip out stand works really well too - it could do with a few more levels, but for what it does it does it really really well. Overall, incredibly high quality hardware.

The touch cover is amazing too - I figured that it was only a matter of time before Apple went that direction, so good for Microsoft being first to that.

Then... they put a 1366x768 display on the thing. The display itself is nice - bright, good colors, responsive - but text just looks awful on it, especially after coming from the Retina iPad. Metro is really slick too - quite responsible - and make fun of me, but I thought that Windows 7 was a pretty solid operating system too. So what does Microsoft do? Takes 80% of Windows 7 UI, 80% of a fully functioning Metro UI, and smashes them together. It's terrible - you're constantly switching between two UI modes, one of which is designed around touch, one of which isn't. Even Office isn't Metro, which I think is unacceptable.

The Surface Pro seems to get a bit more of this right. It's a 1080p display, and a real processor in a tablet, which is pretty cool. But no Touch Cover included with the price, which I think really misses the mark, since that's one of the best things about the Surface RT. Instead, there's a pen - what the heck?!

If the 128GB Surface Pro came with Office, and the Touch Cover (and what the heck, I want the pen too!) for $999, I think they'd have a real chance at carving out Microsoft a nice niche in the tablet market. As it stands, I'll wait for V2, if it ever comes.
post #71 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericblr View Post

I actually like windows 8. I don't say nice things about Windows very often, but I actually like what Microsoft has been doing lately.

This from someone still using a G4? You are in a distinct minority.
post #72 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


But that's just it, I think most people will be served better by two devices that are designed to excel with a UI and HW for the intended I/O. This is just not it. It's like only having a Swiss Army Knife for being a lumberjack and a handyman. Sure, the SAK has a saw and screwdriver and I guess you can use it to bash in nails but it's not exactly a great tool for any specific occupation. Unfortunately what has MS been telling us is that Surface is the ideal tool for notebook and tablet users... but it's not. It's only great for very specific use cases and because of that it won't ever sell a lot of units.

 

"only great for very specific cases" - I can't think of a one! If someone is going to say "it will run Office", that is not a factor to consider. The reviews for office, especially excel have been horrible married to this interface. Further, Office will soon be available for the iPad, and is already available for the MB Air. In addition, their are other alternatives currently for accessing and modifying MSFT docs and spreadsheets on the iPad. This thing is a total dog! They fired the head if this whole fiasco right after he launched it for good reason. The question is, how the hell did they let it happen? This company is totally pathetic, bloated and mismanaged from the top down.

post #73 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by PalmerWi View Post

Wow what a bunch of hateful people!

I have been using both Apple, MS, Linux on a combo of different hardware platforms over the years and all have a purpose.

I have a 2011 MacBook Pro 15 maxed out with 480GB SSD, 16 GB ram Thunderbolt monitor running OS X 10.8.3 office 2011 for mac

2010 MacBook Pro 13 240gb SSD 6GB ram running OS X 10.8.3 office 2011 for mac

iPhone 5 64gb

iPhone 4s 32gb

iPad2 32gb

iPad3 32gb

2010 MacMini Server

Dell Servers running VMware 5 with multiple server os's

Dell XPS 8500 maxed out running Windows 8 pro 64bit, office 2013 pro

Alienware m11x3 maxed out running Windows 8 pro 64bit, office 2013 pro

Alienware m14x2 maxed out running Windows 8 pro 64bit, office 2013 pro

Acer W700-6691 Tablet PC i5-3317u CPU 4gb memory running Windows 8 pro 64bit, office 2013 pro, came with BT keyboard, Docking station $699. with Black Friday discount from Newegg.com pretty much the exact same hardware as the new MS Surface Pro and Windows 8 has sold more OS's in a month than OS X in 4 months.

The Acer feels as fast and can do way more than my iPad's can ever think of include manage Enterprise servers and workstations.

 

All have good and bad points but cant say that any one of them is the end all.

the Fan Boys on both side are really sad and need to wake up.

My MacBook Pro's can barely play current games anymore...

the Acer can almost out perform the MacBook Pro's in WoW, GuildWars and many other games for 1/3 of the total price.

 
 

 

Wow - and so you are an average consumer????? I think not. Your geekness is shining through. Most consumers want usability, stability, ease-of-use, reliability.... And Apple delivers those things in spades. Just look at the stats for web use of smartphones and tablets. Apple blows the others out of the water because people actually use them for the things they need, like surfing the net. Not quite sure what others are doing with their non-Apple mobile devices... other than talking about how much cheaper they are and how they are just like an iphone etc., but the evidence says something totally different.

post #74 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjwal View Post

If Microsoft can add another 64 Gb by $100 why does Apple charge that much for an extra 16 Gb.

Several people on this comment thread have responded to this, but I'm dumbfounded as to why everyone seems to miss the obvious. The fact is, Apple DOES charge $100 for doubling storage. $100 to go from 16GB to 32GB. $100 to go from 32GB to 64GB.

 

If Apple offered a 128GB iPad, it would be exactly $100 more than the 64GB model. Microsoft following Apple's lead once again. Some things never change.

post #75 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by GadgetCanada View Post

14mm thick? How heavy is this thing? Why not get a Macbook Air with a real keyboard and you can have OSX and Windows 8. And for $1000 it doesn't even come close to the iPad's display. Sur-facepalm is DOA. The fringe element will laud it from their mom's basements though and wonder why nobody is buying it.

I loved my Mom....the only women I ever trusted! I should never have moved out! :)

post #76 of 120
And isn't it another $150 or more for the keyboard?

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #77 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post

 

If your son wanted an eReader, then why would even consider a tablet? The Kindle is $79.

 

How exactly is a 16GB iPad useless?

 

The 16GB iPad is simply not ANDROID ENOUGH for them.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #78 of 120
I like ms, but windows 8 blows. Worst decision ever. I'll keep win 7 as long as possible then switch to osx because I refuse to use 8
post #79 of 120
The Surface is DOA before arrival. A tablet PC that costs twice as much as a PC laptop with half the specs and Windowz 8. That's a formula for success.
post #80 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by drwam View Post

A laptop you cannot use on your lap. All for more money than MB Air when you add the keyboard. Hard to see how this is a winner.

AGREED!!!

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