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Redesigned iMac gets unboxed, torn down just hours after launch [u] - Page 2

post #41 of 81

Um. Wrong. Most SE/30's that aren't recapped are no longer working or are exhibiting symptoms of cap leakage which corrodes the motherboard.
 

In fact I would suspect that most component failures in any electronic device are due to cap failures.

 

There's a very active community of people dedicated to replacing these ticking time bombs which tantalum caps which will never leak.

 

On the flip side, all my Amiga's which are even older than my SE/30's which use Electrolytic caps are perfectly fine - granted the form factor would be an issue these days.

 

I just question when I'm spending such a premium price for a Mac they couldn't have thrown in better caps.

post #42 of 81

Would you mind giving us a few sentences of context about caps and tantalum caps for those of us who aren't electrical engineers and have no idea what you're talking about?  If it's something that will effect this computer 20 years from now I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

post #43 of 81
Originally Posted by pondosinatra View Post
Um. Wrong. Most SE/30's that aren't recapped are no longer working or are exhibiting symptoms of cap leakage which corrodes the motherboard.

 

So the Apple II family. What did they use?

 

I just question when I'm spending such a premium price for a Mac they couldn't have thrown in better caps.

 

I still question why this is even a concern or question in any capacity whatsoever.

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post #44 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post

Then simply open them frequently.

 

...that still doesn't give nearly the level of control a power user could have if the drives are formattable separately.  What specifically worries me, is how does fusion work internally?  Are they two separate HFS+ partitions with the files being transferred between them? Or does it operate below the filesystem level, similar to how RAID does?  What happens if the HDD dies, do you lose your documents on the SSD? Even if you don't, what are the odds you have the files necessary to still boot?

 

Fortunately, from what I have read, you can enable an ad-hoc Fusion drive with Disk Utility in the terminal by pairing an SSD and a HDD (ie in a MBP with the superdrive swapped for a HDD).  This makes me think you could probably do the reverse on a real Fusion drive.

 

Personally, I would rather have two separate drives.  I'd put my OS, Apps and important documents on the SSD and movies etc on the HDD.  Or even better, if possible I would:

 

SSD

96 GB for OS, Apps and documents

32 GB for Fusion (to take advantage of the automatic speed up for my most recent photos, and videos being edited)

 

HDD

100-200 GB to act as time machine for the SSD

800-900 GB for Fusion as long-term storage of old photos and moviez

post #45 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

As not surprising as it is, It's sill a bit strange that nobody but Apple has adopted Intel's Thunderbolt I/O.  What makes this kind of frustrating is that in order to get full resolution for Apple's computers, you have to use TB.  So really if you want 2560x1440 from your Macbook or Mac Mini, you have to go Thunderbolt.  This irks me quite a bit, since there are other monitors out there that are just as good and have much less glare than the TB Display.  Dell and Acer both offer equal 27" solutions but without TB, the best resolution you'll get is 1920x1080.  Way to continue to suck us in Apple.

 

That is simply not true.

 

Thunderbolt, as a display interface, is completely compatible with DisplayPort, an industry standard. A quick look at Dell's site shows a wide selection of monitors with DisplayPort inputs. The U2712HM, for example, should work just fine as a display with 2560x1440 resolution.

 

Additionally, a quick search uncovers a fair selection of PCs that provide Thunderbolt ports. Acer, Lenovo, Asus, etc. all make them. Sony does as well, however they have a non-standard connector.

 

Apple's Thunderbolt Display does have two advantages that are currently unique: First, connecting via Thunderbolt also provides audio, FaceTime camera, USB & FireWire ports in the monitor. Second, it allows daisy-chaining multiple Thunderbolt devices. I don't think it's Apple's fault for other companies not stepping up to the plate.

post #46 of 81
Sigh, so it looks like the 21.5" is crippled in terms of hard drive and of course RAM access compared to the 27".

If you notice, the 21.5" only has a 2.5" hard drive and Apple's tech specs say it is 5400RPM. Meanwhile, the 27" comes with a 7200RPM drive and since you can configure a 3TB option, it probably always has a 3.5" drive.
post #47 of 81
Originally Posted by woof pup View Post
…crippled…

 

This needs to stop.

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post #48 of 81

The fact that I can still run computers that are pushing 30 is amazing. Compare this to modern electronics which tends to crap out just after the warranty expires. It's planned obsolescence and while it may be the norm it's wrong. If I'm spending over $3000 for a fully loaded iMac it would have been nice if Apple had spent a few extra pennies per cap for longevity's sake.
 

post #49 of 81

A little bit dissapointed  with the design...

 

The one thing I dislike with my iMac 27 is the lower part of it which in combination with the lack of height adjustment places the lower part of the screen like 6 inch above the top of the table. I spend most of the time with a laptop and have gotten used to having the screen about an inch above. Great thing when you are not a good typist, and it has made my neck used to a specific angle!

However, I thought the reason I bought our special desk where the iMac is lowered so the lowest part of it is flush with the rest of the tabletop was that Apple needed the lower part of the iMac for electronics. 

From the teardown you can clearly see that this is not the case, it is only needed to show the flag. Good design? Functional? Doubt it!

post #50 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecs View Post

Yes, cool design, and nice pricing too, but, unfortunately, they chose to not support pure SSD (except for the 768GB SSD option, which is a joke).

The Mac Mini was almost perfect: Good CPU, good pure SSD (256GB), and good RAM (16GB). But with a bad GPU. So I cannot justify its purchase.

The iMac fixes the Mac Mini weakness by adding a good GPU, but unfortunately drops the 256GB SSD option, so I won't buy it either (yes, I know Fusion well, and no thanks, I won't buy it, I want pure SSD -if you can put it in the Mac Mini, you can also put it on the iMac, so there's no excuse for you here Apple).

Now let's wait for the Mac Pro. Chances are that they'll manage to trash the Mac Pro too, just like they did with the Mini and the iMac...

Anyway, no reason to worry, as Apple wants us to use iOS for all computing tasks in the future, so don't worry if there's no useful Mac desktop in the market... we'll be forced to move to iPads at some point anyway.

This sounds like a variation of the "Apple doesn't care about Pro users" type of concern trolling we get around here.

Why are you waiting for the Mac Pro if you think Apple is going to screw it up? If I really believed that, I'd by one of the last Mac Pros before they allegedly screw it up. You can mount as much SSD in Mac Pro as you can afford, and it's all standard on the inside: nothing is soldered down. So put your money where your mouth is and buy one, if the iMac is really so awful.

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post #51 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

This needs to stop.

Let me guess: the iMac is crippled because it's not Android enough.

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post #52 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by pondosinatra View Post

As someone who's had to shell out a bunch of money and be stressed to the max getting my old SE/30's, IIci's etc. recapped I find it quite annoying that Apple is still using the same capacitor technology in their current products.
Why are they not using Tantalum caps???? Anyone? Oh right, designed for future failure.

 

Bad components happen. Doesn't matter what's kind it is, if the part was bad, it's bad. If Apple (or Dell, IBM, HP, or anybody else for that matter) gets a bad run of components from a dishonest Taiwanese component manufacturer that don't meet the specs they were <supposed> to, you can hardly point at Apple (or the others) and say "designed for future failure" (and be taken seriously anyhow). At worst, you can say that got taken by a shady component manufacturer who didn't sell them the parts that they paid for - which is exactly what's happened with <all> of the mentioned companies, and many more, at one point or another over the years. The result is a bad run of finished product that experiences premature failures. I have a 2005 Quad G5 that's seen 10's of thousands of hours of power-on usage, and it's never had a failure. It's the same capacitor technology there too. The components were specced <and built> to meet the operating environment conditions (my poorly-ventilated, stuffy little home office ;)), and they didn't fail. Easy.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pondosinatra View Post

Um. Wrong. Most SE/30's that aren't recapped are no longer working or are exhibiting symptoms of cap leakage which corrodes the motherboard.
 

In fact I would suspect that most component failures in any electronic device are due to cap failures.

 

There's a very active community of people dedicated to replacing these ticking time bombs which tantalum caps which will never leak.

 

On the flip side, all my Amiga's which are even older than my SE/30's which use Electrolytic caps are perfectly fine - granted the form factor would be an issue these days.

 

I just question when I'm spending such a premium price for a Mac they couldn't have thrown in better caps.

 

 

I never had any of my II-series Macs die on me for any reason. I did have a motherboard fry in a Wallstreet powerbook once - but a transformer on pole just outside my house exploded during an electrical storm ... so I'm guessing that can't really be blamed on a capacitor failure. :P I find it interesting when people try to make authoritative statements like "all my XYZ's of type Q die/break/whatever so therefore this/that/th'other is wrong with them". It's interesting because in many of those cases, the most significant link in the series of failures is the <person> making the claim (or their usage/environment). Have you been living in the same house (or maybe even just same town) for 30 years? Maybe you have bad electrical service in the house and you get voltage fluctuations that go far outside of the norm, maybe that's why you see so many capacitor failures, you're feeding your devices bad power that's well outside what the parts were usually specced for. Maybe you should invest in mil-spec gear that is rated for more extreme operating conditions?

 

You're making some bold, sweeping statements here with those "most" comments. Care to support any of them?

 

"Ticking time bombs"? That's not too much of a hyperbole, right? My G5 didn't fail, your Amiga(s) "are perfectly fine", countless other devices utilizing liquid-electrolyte aluminum capacitors running for a couple <decades> haven't failed. A significant production run of SE/30's that ended up with faulty capacitors did - but again, those were <faulty>. If they'd been faulty CP tantalum capacitors, they'd have failed too. The argument presented is flawed - or at the very least, not supported by the evidence provided.

 

If you're using a capacitor with a solid electrolyte, you are correct, it will "never leak". But, why does a liquid-electrolyte capacitor leak? Answer: for the same reason that solid-electrolyte capacitor explodes and catches fire, operating it in conditions which exceed it's tolerances.

 

"Better" is a relative term. Better for what particular conditions? More reliable when running in higher temperature environments that an iMac will realistically never experience? Are you suggesting an extremely low ESR required for iMac longevity? If so, why not suggest they go ceramic and not mess with electrolytics (tantalum, aluminum, or otherwise) at all?

 

As for tantalum capacitors (which, by the way <are> electrolytic) ... just a guess, but: higher cost, not available with the specifications required, and/or if they fail, the very real potential for catastrophic thermal runaway leading to nasty fires (not something a consumer product manufacturer wants to deal with if they can avoid it ;)).

 

Lazy me quotes Wiki, who says:

 

"... unlike aluminum electrolytics, they are intolerant of positive or negative voltage spikes and are destroyed (often exploding violently) if connected in the circuit backwards or exposed to spikes above their voltage rating.

 

Tantalum capacitors are more expensive than aluminum-based (with liquid electrolyte) capacitors and generally only available in low-voltage versions, but because of their smaller size for a given capacitance and lower impedance at high frequencies they are popular in miniature applications such as cellular telephones."

 

Also,

 

"Multilayer ceramic capacitors are increasingly used to replace tantalum and low capacitance aluminium electrolytic capacitors in applications such as bypass or high frequency switched-mode power supplies as their cost, reliability and size becomes competitive. In many applications, their low ESR allows the use of a lower nominal capacitance value."

 

So, again, why not more ceramics?

 

Bottom-line, operating specs and reliability metrics apparently all meet or exceed Apple's criteria (whose completed products typically have a usable lifetime of two or more times than that of similar products from other companies), and cost less to boot, so why <not> use the ones they did?

post #53 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

 

That being said, I still think that the better deal is to buy the Mac Mini paired with an external display.  For the same price as the iMac you have pretty much the same powerful machine, and you can keep the display for years to come...

 

 

But the iMac has a GTX 680Mx GPU compared to the mac mini which only has er... no GPU at all (just an integrated on on the cpu)
post #54 of 81

That's no unboxing video.  Where's the trembling hands and giddy commentary?!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sr2012 View Post


Hmm... It is delicious but why the chin? The LED and Thunderbolt Cinema Displays are lovely without the chin. With the thinness dropping the chin would have been perfect.

 

I find the chin useful for adjusting the tilt on my iMac without smudging the screen.

post #55 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluefish86 View Post

...that still doesn't give nearly the level of control a power user could have if the drives are formattable separately.  What specifically worries me, is how does fusion work internally?  Are they two separate HFS+ partitions with the files being transferred between them? Or does it operate below the filesystem level, similar to how RAID does?  What happens if the HDD dies, do you lose your documents on the SSD? Even if you don't, what are the odds you have the files necessary to still boot?

Fortunately, from what I have read, you can enable an ad-hoc Fusion drive with Disk Utility in the terminal by pairing an SSD and a HDD (ie in a MBP with the superdrive swapped for a HDD).  This makes me think you could probably do the reverse on a real Fusion drive.

Personally, I would rather have two separate drives.  I'd put my OS, Apps and important documents on the SSD and movies etc on the HDD.  Or even better, if possible I would:

SSD
96 GB for OS, Apps and documents
32 GB for Fusion (to take advantage of the automatic speed up for my most recent photos, and videos being edited)

HDD
100-200 GB to act as time machine for the SSD
800-900 GB for Fusion as long-term storage of old photos and moviez

If you want two separate drives to act as two separate drives in the OS then you can set it up that way. The problem with that is you don't get the performance benefits when it spread around and using two separate logical drives means it's not as seamless. Fusion is very simple in what it does. It creates a single logical drive that the OS is aware of and will put the files that would benefit from being on the SSD on the SSD. It's that simple. I have it set up on my 2010 MBP and it's working great. No longer do I have to use weird work arounds to get capacity and performance between my internal SSD+HDD.

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post #56 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by pondosinatra View Post

As someone who's had to shell out a bunch of money and be stressed to the max getting my old SE/30's, IIci's etc. recapped I find it quite annoying that Apple is still using the same capacitor technology in their current products.
Why are they not using Tantalum caps???? Anyone? Oh right, designed for future failure.

How much do you want to pay for a computer? Tantalums cost a lot more for the charge capacity and they often can't take as much voltage.

Except for a burst of industry-wide rash of failures some years back, they generally hold up well a couple times beyond obsolescence.
Edited by JeffDM - 11/30/12 at 4:02pm
post #57 of 81

Bad news for upgrading... The glass is glued to the chassis. Have to use a heat gun and very carefully pry it off. Not easy like the magnets in previous models.

 

The big rubber gasket you see inside is designed to keep heat away from the edges so it does not soften the glue causing the display panel to detach itself. The seal around the edge should be air tight to allow proper airflow within the machine so re-gluing it would be tricky as well.


Edited by BDBLACK - 11/30/12 at 7:13pm
post #58 of 81
Bad news for sflocal
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

And of course the famous "I can't upgrade an iMac" cry-me-a-river story. Like they don't know how to use bathroom-shower suction cups and an extra five minutes to crack open an iMac, after preaching how technically inclined they are by building their own rigs at 1/3 the cost... *rolls eyes*
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post #59 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

I agree about "pure" SSD being preferable but it's kind of silly that you are arguing that the only thing "wrong" with the new iMac is that it's "pure" SSD isn't small enough?  

This is ridiculous on the face of it. 

 

It's ridiculous if, and only if, you don't care about SSD. But if you really want pure SSD on your desktop, and you're forced to pay 3000 euros for an iMac with 768GB SSD, then you obviously won't buy it, because that price point belongs to the Mac Pro, and yes, you get a Mac Pro with SSD for that price (maybe you'd have to buy a third-party SSD to get the final Mac Pro price below 3000 euros, but you can get it).

 

So, yes, my complaint is that Apple isn't supporting 256GB nor 340GB nor 512GB SSD on the new iMacs, which would turn SSD-based iMacs very reasonably priced.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


This sounds like a variation of the "Apple doesn't care about Pro users" type of concern trolling we get around here.

 

Really? Then point me to a new Mac desktop that can be configured with a 4core i7, with discrete GPU, and 256GB SSD. My money is ready to buy that, because my previous iMac died past the 5-year parts availability period. I won't buy a Mac with lower specs than that. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


Why are you waiting for the Mac Pro if you think Apple is going to screw it up?

 

Because it's my last hope before I decide to go Hackintosh. I don't want a Hackintosh because I prefer an original Apple, but I'm not going to spend my money on a configuration I don't like, so I'm waiting for the Mac Pro in order to have a full vision of the new Mac desktop line before taking a decision on where to put my money.

post #60 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecs View Post

Really? Then point me to a new Mac desktop that can be configured with a 4core i7, with discrete GPU, and 256GB SSD. My money is ready to buy that, because my previous iMac died past the 5-year parts availability period. I won't buy a Mac with lower specs than that.

 

So just buy the iMac with the Fusion drive and replace the SSD with a larger version. From iFixit taking the 21inch apart seems like getting access to it shouldn't be too difficult.

post #61 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Odysseus1923 View Post

So just buy the iMac with the Fusion drive and replace the SSD with a larger version. From iFixit taking the 21inch apart seems like getting access to it shouldn't be too difficult.

What do you mean by "replace the SSD with a larger version"? I assumed the SSD option in the new iMacs is an SSD card, like in the MBA and MBPs, not a 2.5" SSD, thus making the Fusion drive the 2.5" HDD+SSD card in the 21.5" iMac and a 3.5" HDD+SSD card in the 27" iMac.

PS: Now that I think about it I haven't seen a 768GB SSD card so perhaps that option in the 27" iMac is a 2.5" drive.

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post #62 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

I think you guys don't really understand how the Fusion drive works.  There's really not need to re-partition, the software sort of does that on the fly to maximize speed to the programs you use the most.  At least, that's how I understand it.

 

The SSD in the fusion drive is 128GB so if you have more than that in total it leaves 4GB free on the SSD. The system and application files stay on the SSD. For user files when writing they first hit the SSD then are moved across to the HD. If the files are larger than 4GB then the speed will slow down to that of the HD.

 

For most people keeping it as a Fusion drive will be fine but is depends on what you are doing. SSD drives don't last as long as standard HD's so making the drives dual and only using the SSD for system and application files will extend the life of the SSD. Also if you are using programmes such as Photoshop then you will be able to assign the SSD as the scratch drive.

 

Personally I will probably give the Fusion drive a go but at least I have the choice to change it if I wish.

 

See this article on why some people think dual drives are better than fusion. http://macperformanceguide.com/macmini2012-dual-drives-vs-fusion.html

post #63 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I assumed the SSD option in the new iMacs is an SSD card.

 

According to Apple after chatting with them online it is a drive but is soldered on.... Mind you yesterday one of them said that there were no moving parts in the Fusion drive so it's anybody's guess really...


Edited by Odysseus1923 - 12/1/12 at 9:10am
post #64 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Odysseus1923 View Post

According to Apple after chatting with them online it is a drive but is soldered on....

Thanks.

I'm looking at the iFixit teardown but don't see where the128GB SSD card (only size for the Fusion Drive) would go in that machine.



edit: Check out Step 24. I'd wager the SSD card will NOT be soldered on. However, if you don't buy the Fusion Drive with the 21.5" iMac as standard you won't get the connector soldered on which will make it all but impossible to ever add an SSD card later on.
Edited by SolipsismX - 12/1/12 at 9:16am

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post #65 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Thanks.
I'm looking at the iFixit teardown but don't see where the128GB SSD card (only size for the Fusion Drive) would go in that machine.

 

Damn seems somewhat trickier than I had hoped. C'est la vie...

post #66 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Thanks.
I'm looking at the iFixit teardown but don't see where the128GB SSD card (only size for the Fusion Drive) would go in that machine.

Step 24 points out a plausible location for a socket that was left off the non-Fusion Drive model.
post #67 of 81

Has anyone actually seen these in person yet? Wondering what the new anti-glare screen is like...

post #68 of 81
Originally Posted by pondosinatra View Post
Has anyone actually seen these in person yet? Wondering what the new anti-glare screen is like...

 

Good enough that we'll never see the MacMatte petition spam ever again.

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post #69 of 81

So are you just saying that....or have you actually seen one in person yet?

post #70 of 81
Originally Posted by pondosinatra View Post
So are you just saying that....or have you actually seen one in person yet?

 

Not in person, but I've seen side-by-side images, and it's reduced drastically.

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post #71 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Not in person, but I've seen side-by-side images, and it's reduced drastically.

As far as I understand, it's the same as the Retina MBPs, which is very good. Eliminating the air gap between the glass and display eliminates two reflective surfaces. The antiglare treatment appears to be stronger too.

Somehow, I don't think zunx will be happy, but at this point, he might just have to be unhappy somewhere else if he carries on his little one-person crusade because the point of matte diminishes greatly against the current display.
Edited by JeffDM - 12/1/12 at 11:05am
post #72 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

I can't understand why Apple would eliminate the microphone input.

They probably have data which shows it's very seldom used. For people that need sound input, there are USB solutions.

post #73 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by pondosinatra View Post

Has anyone actually seen these in person yet? Wondering what the new anti-glare screen is like...

 

 

 Yeah.  I saw one in Japan on Thursday US time and posted such.  The screen is amazing.  The same display as last years model, but with noticeably much less reflection.  It also seems clearer as the display is right in front of you now (as opposed to 2mm behind the glass).

 

For me, the screen is so good it is almost reason enough to upgrade, if you can afford it.

 

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You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #74 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by pondosinatra View Post

Has anyone actually seen these in person yet? Wondering what the new anti-glare screen is like...

On Friday at the Apple Store a dude was just setting up his new iMac 21". I didn't want to be too nosy to stare at the display. I was just shocked about the discordant iMac launch.
post #75 of 81

Ya, obviously I'll have to play with one in person, but based on what I've seen this is the first Mac in a long time which has excited me. I had to endure much scorn and ridicule on here with my assertion that my current matte iMac would be my last as I refused a glossy screen. While I love my current iMac it's getting a bit long in the tooth - the last iPhoto update kinda broke the camel's back as it was so noticeably slow.

 

The lack of an optical drive is somewhat annoying but not a deal breaker. As mentioned the external drive can be bought and actually complements the design.

 

No one has answered my other question yet (opening myself up for more ridicule) as to whether Snow Leopard will install on it...

post #76 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

So that people aren't scammed during a resale and so that the hardware can actually fit inside the computer.
What hardware is actually behind the chin? From the teardown photos I've seen so far, the chin is intact. I haven't seen a photo of the chin removed or exposed.
post #77 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by JupiterOne View Post

What hardware is actually behind the chin? From the teardown photos I've seen so far, the chin is intact. I haven't seen a photo of the chin removed or exposed.

That is the part that I assume has the stir welding (ie: atomic metal glue) and it looks like it's nothing but for airflow into the the machine which gets pulled up and out the vent in the back center. It's only 5mm on the bottom edge so it's not like much could be there.


PS: Not that I ever use SD cards but it would have been nice if they had put that one port on the right edge because those that do use SD cards likely using them often and getting them in and out of the back will be a pain. So much so that those who want this new iMac and use SD cards frequently may want to invest in a USB SD card reader.

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post #78 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by JupiterOne View Post

What hardware is actually behind the chin? From the teardown photos I've seen so far, the chin is intact. I haven't seen a photo of the chin removed or exposed.

The chin is out of balance on the 21" iMac, because it is the same size as the chin on the 27" iMac. And if, indeed it is superfluous... Well, you know what that says about the "new Apple". 1hmm.gif
post #79 of 81
Originally Posted by sr2012 View Post
The chin is out of balance on the 21" iMac, because it is the same size as the chin on the 27" iMac. And if, indeed it is superfluous... Well, you know what that says about the "new Apple".

 

It's the same size on every iMac; so what? It's not superfluous; it's specifically used.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #80 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

It's the same size on every iMac; so what? It's not superfluous; it's specifically used.

What is it used for exactly on the 21"? At that size?
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