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Review roundup: New iMac display and redesigned chassis shine, audio a step back - Page 2

post #41 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by elroth View Post

No all-in-one sounds good enough - add external speakers.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find any computer with good sound without adding external parts. I think it can be done with the old horizontal desktop form factor that existed before the tower style took over, but that's silly.
post #42 of 165

I'm not in need of any new machine right now, but those new iMacs sure do look nice.

 

As for the whiners, your comments are irrelevant and don't really matter. Apple is selling all that they can make, so your whining will change nothing and has zero effect upon anything. Apple is not interested in making computers for cavemen and dinosaurs who need optical drives anymore. I can't even remember the last time that I touched a physical disc. Get with the program, it's almost 2013.

 

As for the lack of bass, that is hardly an important issue, because anybody who claims to demand good audio quality is not using any internal speakers on any all in one machine or on any TV. You hook up your machine to quality external speakers and monitors if you need great quality audio and full sound reproduction, including earth shattering bass, or you plug in a pair of expensive headphones if you care about sound quality. That goes for the previous iMacs also, that were thicker.

post #43 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I think you'd be hard pressed to find any computer with good sound without adding external parts. I think it can be done with the old horizontal desktop form factor that existed before the tower style took over, but that's silly.

As soon as you add anything else to make your AIO function properly it ruins the entire point of it¡ Apple should go back to including the keyboard into the case¡


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post #44 of 165
One thing that is both a step backwards and inexplicable on the grounds of cost is abandoning a line-in port. With both headphone and line in ports it's easy to play and record music from an online source using a double ended 3.5 mm jack plug. It may be less cluttered and more streamlined to eliminate inconvenient holes but when it reduces functionality then it really is ''form over function', this is where my current MacBook (single in/out audio port) loses out to my current (line in and headphones out) iMac.
post #45 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

The heat from the GTX680MX should keep you warm on a cold winters night. I was at the Apple Store tonight and saw the 21.5 inch iMac. It's crazy thin and even in the middle it's very thin. Venting is about mid level on the back of the device, no longer at the top. When I took a look at the ports on the back I could move the iMac around with one finger. At least in my opinion the glare has been cut down dramatically.

If the 27" had been released I would have walked home with one tonight. They had a fairly good supply of both 21.5 inch models. I was also suprised they had every iPad Mini at the store for the exception of Verizon LTE. Tonight was my first time using the Mini, I played around with it for about 15 mins when I picked up the iPad after using the Mini the iPad felt like it weighed 15lbs. It was really interesting going from one to the other.

I almost went home with the 21.5" tonight. The courteous Apple Store employee was able to talk me down from that 5mm ledge before I made a rash decision. Only a 2.5" HDD with 1TB max at 5400RPM, only 2 RAM slots for a maximum of 16GB that is not easily changeable like in the 27". The lowered performance and pretty much everything else that 27" has. They also didn't have anything but the two base 21.5" configurations so I wouldn't have even been able to walk away with a Core-i7 today.

I'm guessing that extra curvature of the back means that the metal can be thinner while still being as rigid. Thinner metal should mean that heat will dissipate though it even faster.


As for the iPad mini. I quite like it but the Retina Display I like more. It's interesting how you can go to a lighter device and not notice the weight but then go back to the heavier one and it's instantly noticeable. Every time I pick up my iPhone 4 for iOS app testing it just feels so heavy and bulky compared to the iPhone 5, like it's some Cold War throwback. It's funny how technology constantly pushes in one direction of what we consider to be acceptable.

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post #46 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by john_l_uk View Post

One thing that is both a step backwards and inexplicable on the grounds of cost is abandoning a line-in port. With both headphone and line in ports it's easy to play and record music from an online source using a double ended 3.5 mm jack plug. It may be less cluttered and more streamlined to eliminate inconvenient holes but when it reduces functionality then it really is ''form over function', this is where my current MacBook (single in/out audio port) loses out to my current (line in and headphones out) iMac.

I have line in ports on most, if not all of my older Macs, but I wonder how many people actually ever used them? I don't know what the stats are, but I'd venture to guess that the number is extremely low. Why include a port that maybe 1% of customers use? What about the other 99%? I would say that anybody recording anything into their Macs, and is serious about it, are using external interfaces. And if somebody is not serious about it, then they probably fall into the category of people who have never even used that port ever.

post #47 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by elroth View Post

Glad you're so happy. You're not the only person in the world, you know. DVDs still by far outsell downloaded movies. But since you run the world, I guess that's all out the window.


No... I certainly don't run the world, nor would I want to.  The vocal minority out there that need an ODD drive in their iMac so they can send grandma a disc with family pictures are the ones that think they do.

Apple has a great knack for jettison old technology and embracing new concepts.  What will happen - and already is on some level - is the other makers will do the exact same thing and then "suddenly" it will be commonplace.  Of course, no thanks to Apple... </s>

 

post #48 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I almost went home with the 21.5" tonight. The courteous Apple Store employee was able to talk me down from that 5mm ledge before I made a rash decision. Only a 2.5" HDD with 1TB max at 5400RPM, only 2 RAM slots for a maximum of 16GB that is not easily changeable like in the 27". The lowered performance and pretty much everything else that 27" has. They also didn't have anything but the two base 21.5" configurations so I wouldn't have even been able to walk away with a Core-i7 today.
I'm guessing that extra curvature of the back means that the metal can be thinner while still being as rigid. Thinner metal should mean that heat will dissipate though it even faster.
As for the iPad mini. I quite like it but the Retina Display I like more. It's interesting how you can go to a lighter device and not notice the weight but then go back to the heavier one and it's instantly noticeable. Every time I pick up my iPhone 4 for iOS app testing it just feels so heavy and bulky compared to the iPhone 5, like it's some Cold War throwback. It's funny how technology constantly pushes in one direction of what we consider to be acceptable.


Glad you were able to walk away from the 21" Solips.  Once you use the big boy, there's just no comparison.  I had to work on a client's 21.5" today it just felt like I had to look down on it, nice as it was.  27" is simply the new standard.

I'm waiting for next year to see what Apple does with the mini.  I think that will be my next iPad purchase.

My sister broke her old 3GS a couple weeks ago after using it for a couple years.  I still had my "old" iPhone4 in near perfect condition just lying around after I got my iP5.  So I became the good brother and gave it to her.  For her, the iP4 felt like fine jewelry, but for me - I agree - the iP5 just makes it feel like an old battleship in a sea of modern destroyers. :)

Tech does advance quickly, and Apple is the one out front laying the path for everyone else.

post #49 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Then again, since you already knew this your expectation for the build-in speakers were low to begin with. As should be with anyone, so yes, separate, external speakers is the best config if you want to listen to music or play a video. For incoming mail et cetera sounds the build-in speakers will suffice. That's what they're designed for.

You're right: a beep should be good enough
post #50 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post


Glad you were able to walk away from the 21" Solips.  Once you use the big boy, there's just no comparison.  I had to work on a client's 21.5" today it just felt like I had to look down on it, nice as it was.  27" is simply the new standard.

I've been using Apple's 13" notebooks as my primary machine since they went Intel. I had a 12" PB before that, and before that various 15" machines going back nearly 15 years. IOW, 21.5" is huge compared to what I am used to for personal use.

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post #51 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I've been using Apple's 13" notebooks as my primary machine since they went Intel. I had a 12" PB before that, and before that various 15" machines going back nearly 15 years. IOW, 21.5" is huge compared to what I am used to for personal use.

I used my original MBA as my primary machine for a couple years back then too.  Going to the 27" iMac after that took some getting used to as the screen just felt monstrous and I was not used to having to turn my head slightly to cover all the real estate.  After a week or two, and adjusting the position of the monitor to a proper distance for me, it's just night-and-day.   I even ended up purchasing the new LED display, along with a new MBA for the office as I just could not (ever) go back to a 13" primary monitor.

You're going to love it.  21" just feels tiny now.  Especially when you can do your regular work, and have netflix/iTunes movies playing in a window alongside it.  Very cool.

My boss loved my setup, he bought the rMBP along with the 27" monitor - (even thought the rMBP has a higher display).  He's going to purchase an iMac for his home as well when they are more readily available.  Before that he was using a PC/17" monitor and now could never, ever go back to anything else.  We're the envy of the company we work at as the bigger (and higher quality) monitor just lets us be more productive and gives our eyes a break.

post #52 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by bugsnw View Post

I'm fine with the speakers on the iMac. If I was into desktop gaming, I'd probably spring for some Bose speakers. It's funny that even in 2012, reviewers of big screen HDTVs pan them for the small speakers. Does anyone buy a huge 65" LCD and then settle for the built ins? Even a cheap Bose 3-speaker surround system improves the experience tremendously!

BOSE..... Hahahahahaha... Seriously......hahahaha..... Never going to improve ANY audio experience.
post #53 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I'd be curious to know how many people use the built in speakers with their flat screen TV vs a receiver with speakers and subwoofer. My guess is more people do the latter.

Oh, I doubt that. Only us home theater enthusiasts don't use their TV's built-in speakers.

I have visited many people who have their TVs hooked up to an external sound system, but almost without fail the receiver is switched off and they are using the (increasingly inferior) internal speakers.
post #54 of 165
I have a 2005 G5 2.0 Mac Pro and been waiting all year for the new iMacs. Nearly opted for the new Mini but for the the HD4000 instead gone for the base 15" rmbp with 16 GB memory upgrade(I know it's a rip off). The new iMacs are nice but can see why people are dissatisfied especially having 5400rpm hard drives as standard on th 21.5" it becomes quite costly to upgrade and for the more power user having to spend nearer to £2000 is realistic. Maybe those people should hang on and see what the new Mac Pro will offer. However the maxed out Mini does look good value if you can get past the HD 4000, which I couldn't. The portability and retina display was what swayed me.
The iMac I still a great machine just upgrade the hard drive on n 21.5" !!!!
post #55 of 165

I cannot believe the idiotic Cnet comment that they felt that Apple was being deceptive by pretending that the computer was actually 5mm deep. 

post #56 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by irnchriz View Post


BOSE..... Hahahahahaha... Seriously......hahahaha..... Never going to improve ANY audio experience.

 

Well mine go up to 11.

post #57 of 165

The best thing about the new iMacs is they provide even more vindication for having bought the 15" Macbook Pro. 1cool.gif
 

post #58 of 165

A "zero bass response" is a very strong step backwards if that's the case. I think Apple must stop this fetish with thin design.

post #59 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by TokyoJimu View Post

Oh, I doubt that. Only us home theater enthusiasts don't use their TV's built-in speakers.
I have visited many people who have their TVs hooked up to an external sound system, but almost without fail the receiver is switched off and they are using the (increasingly inferior) internal speakers.
Oh man I could never do that. And my sound system is by no means high-end, but its better than what comes out of the built in speakers.
post #60 of 165
I had a hunch that sound quality on the new slimmed down iMacs might be worse than previous generations,here that has been confirmed. I was hoping Apple would come up with some technological solution so that wouldn't be the case (they've done some good things with their latest laptops in that department)but I suppose for a desktop that's near impossible. No matter, as already mentioned here by others - want great sound quality, plug in some quality speakers. Almost everything else about this new iMac is fab! Add a Retina display and it would be almost perfect...next year I suppose.
post #61 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by bugsnw View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Agreed. I haven't used the internal speakers on any of my desktop computers for at least 15 years. On my laptops, I use the internal speakers, but never to listen seriously to music. I don't think it's an unreasonable tradeoff. It's not hard to find inexpensive external speakers that are far better than even the best internal ones.

I'm fine with the speakers on the iMac. If I was into desktop gaming, I'd probably spring for some Bose speakers. It's funny that even in 2012, reviewers of big screen HDTVs pan them for the small speakers. Does anyone buy a huge 65" LCD and then settle for the built ins? Even a cheap Bose 3-speaker surround system improves the experience tremendously!

What's wrong with the expectation of reasonably good speakers in a multimedia device? Sure you have the high-end options if you are such an audiophile, but the built-in speakers should be enough to cover mainstream use, especially in an all-in-one. Owning a mid-2011 iMac myself, I find the speakers in it to be just right for me, but my MacBook Pro's speakers are utter crap, which I accept because it's a laptop.

Why is everyone on this site so apologetic to the crap Apple has been putting out lately?
post #62 of 165
> Where will it all end? Soon they'll remove every component and you'll be left with a pane of glass
> on a stand!

You mean something like this:

http://www.detail.de/daily/weniger-geht-nicht-loewe-invisio-auf-der-shortlist-fuer-den-if-concept-award-930/

I wouldn't mind such a machine... 1wink.gif
post #63 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


There is no evidence that it's the manufacturing of the device that is resulted in a November and December release.

Believe whatever you want.  The news stories have been everywhere and where there's smoke, there's fire.  What do you think is the cause of the computers selling out to such a long wait already?  The crazy huge pent-up demand?  Again, believe what you want, but the preponderance of evidence all points one way.

 

Believe what you want as well. I don't think there was huge pent up demand, but there was some. Also, the new design is so appealing that everyone (seriously, anyone I talk too) I know wants one even if they don't really need it. So while it may have been delayed due to technical problems in the new processes, that doesn't mean that supply is limited for that reason still. I think orders got pushed out so quick due to demand. Many of my friends have already ordered who were waiting for an update. When they release a 27" Thunderbolt display that is like this, I am ordering two. 

post #64 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by john_l_uk View Post

One thing that is both a step backwards and inexplicable on the grounds of cost is abandoning a line-in port. With both headphone and line in ports it's easy to play and record music from an online source using a double ended 3.5 mm jack plug. It may be less cluttered and more streamlined to eliminate inconvenient holes but when it reduces functionality then it really is ''form over function', this is where my current MacBook (single in/out audio port) loses out to my current (line in and headphones out) iMac.

 

You can get a USB audio device to steal music. But seriously, any online streaming service that you can listen to in a browser can also be captured to a file if you know anything about Javascript, HTML, and using the debug capabilities in Safari. ;) Even YouTube videos via the mobile site can go straight to disk. 

post #65 of 165
All these comments about lack of bass is pure nonsense. Who wants to listen music from a computer anyway, without plugging decent externals ? I have B&W MM-1 and that's what I call decent. Same rationale as DVD drive : get external.
Edited by Quantz - 12/1/12 at 5:15am
post #66 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpadhiyar View Post

A "zero bass response" is a very strong step backwards if that's the case. I think Apple must stop this fetish with thin design.

Ridiculous. It's a computer, not a sound system. And that "bass" obsession is ridiculous too. Overloaded bass in sound systems are just for thugs driving around playing  Eminem at full blast, not for musicians. 

post #67 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I think you'd be hard pressed to find any computer with good sound without adding external parts. I think it can be done with the old horizontal desktop form factor that existed before the tower style took over, but that's silly.

Nope. Even there, music enthusiasts would be complaining about lack of bass. Nothing less than a 12" subwoofer is good enough for some people. Try fitting that into a computer case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

As soon as you add anything else to make your AIO function properly it ruins the entire point of it¡ Apple should go back to including the keyboard into the case¡

I disagree. The point of the AIO is that for most people it operates without adding a bunch of stuff and connecting a lot of cables. That's still true of the iMac - most people don't need ODD or massive bass sound. The fact that it's expandable to allow the few people who need it to add accessories doesn't mean that the entire point is lost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I've been using Apple's 13" notebooks as my primary machine since they went Intel. I had a 12" PB before that, and before that various 15" machines going back nearly 15 years. IOW, 21.5" is huge compared to what I am used to for personal use.

I agree, but note that it's not as big a difference as the numbers indicate because you're likely viewing the iMac at a greater distance than the laptop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by irnchriz View Post

BOSE..... Hahahahahaha... Seriously......hahahaha..... Never going to improve ANY audio experience.

I agree. I've listened to Bose (recently and all the way back to the 80s) and can't understand why so many people rave about them. Pure marketing over performance in my experience.

There are certainly a lot of great speaker systems out there and I realize that personal taste enters into the selection, but Bose never even made the first cut when I was buying speakers. My current setup is a nice set of Infinity towers and subwoofer. Infinity has never disappointed me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TokyoJimu View Post

Oh, I doubt that. Only us home theater enthusiasts don't use their TV's built-in speakers. .

Not true. I don't consider myself a home theater enthusiast, but I don't use my TV's speakers (and haven't done so for at least 20 years). I have a very nice sound system for listening to music, so it made sense to connect my TV to that. I know a number of people who bought amps and speakers because their TV wasn't loud enough, as well. they're not home theater enthusiasts, either.

That said, for people with very low expectations, the speakers in a TV or even the current iMac can be acceptable. If you want good sound, though, it's easy enough to add in either case.
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post #68 of 165

Audio line in is SRS BSNS, which is why modern professional equipment has a USB interface. If your workflow still depends on analog input, you're not likely to invest in a brand new iMac anyway.

hmm View Post

[Thin] design is just a gimmick because of this. Apple has become sort of the poster child for anorexia nervosa.

I too miss the days of CRT depth, and laptops with the size and weight of a cast-iron briefcase.

 

TokyoJimu View Post
Oh, I doubt that. Only us home theater enthusiasts don't use their TV's built-in speakers.
I have visited many people who have their TVs hooked up to an external sound system, but almost without fail the receiver is switched off and they are using the (increasingly inferior) internal speakers.

Second.

We laugh at the idea of people using iPads as drink coasters and cutting boards, just as we did with the classic "CD-ROM cupholder." But it really kills me to see so many people with high-end HDTVs set to stretch analog cable content. Or worse, that funhouse mirror mode.

It's like buying a comically oversize pickup truck and never taking it out of the city. People have more dollars than sense.

 

jpadhiyar View Post

A "zero bass response" is a very strong step backwards if that's the case.

Yes, because the 2011 iMacs were lauded for their strong bass response.

But seriously, that's what Airplay is for. I have a wireless printer in my closet, and AppleTV on my surround system. Internal speakers do not concern me, Admiral. I want that thinness, not excuses.

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post #69 of 165

Tear down of the new iMac shows free space at the top.  I wonder why Apple didn't raise everything out of the chin and eliminate it.  The edges would have had to remain the same thickness as the previous version; however, the iMac would be the same size as the 27" monitor. Much neater than the thin edges.

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post #70 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

I disagree. The point of the AIO is that for most people it operates without adding a bunch of stuff and connecting a lot of cables. That's still true of the iMac - most people don't need ODD or massive bass sound. The fact that it's expandable to allow the few people who need it to add accessories doesn't mean that the entire point is lost.

Note that comment was stated ironically.
Quote:
I agree, but note that it's not as big a difference as the numbers indicate because you're likely viewing the iMac at a greater distance than the laptop.

Good point. I am sure my 13" MBP will kept closer to me than my iMac but the additional pixels (even though larger pixels) will help for the additional UI elements I'll be displaying. Namely, Xcode.

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post #71 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by TokyoJimu View Post

Decent-sounding speakers need depth. Looks like form wins out over function this time.

Well, all I can say is that Apple is making a computer, not an audio system.  If you want good audio, look to a company who's core competency is audio reproduction.  Personally, there are so many AirPlay audio products on the market, I think the average person is going to buy better sounding speakers ANYWAY, rather than just relying on the internal computer speakers, if audio reproduction is important.

 

What cracks me up is that people might bitch and complain about the not-so-great audio integrated within computers (AIO, laptops), yet those same people will go out and buy some seriously bad sounding audio speakers to add to their systems.

 

You want good audio?  That costs money.  In the audio world, the best sounding audio systems cost far more than these iMacs cost.
 

You want some insane audio system to go along with your computer system? One has to spend at LEAST $600 to get anything worth a darnn.  At least that is coming from someone with a background in audio systems.

post #72 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur View Post

Tear down of the new iMac shows free space at the top.  I wonder why Apple didn't raise everything out of the chin and eliminate it.  The edges would have had to remain the same thickness as the previous version; however, the iMac would be the same size as the 27" monitor. Much neater than the thin edges.

1) Perhaps they like the chin. I certainly like the chin. It does hose the one area that has the Apple logo which also houses a window for the IR and maybe a radio antenna. Not that the iconic look even needs a logo on the front but I think it works.

2) The chin allows for the glass (and now display) to rest upon the structure.

3) Making the back more curved allows for less material to be used in the structure while still getting the same rigidity and strength from a flatter back.

4) It looks more stunning to have thinner edges than to have thick edges without a chin. It's one thing to say that aesthetics aren't as important as performance but when the complaint is that "the chin is ugly" then it's no longer an argument about performance.

5) Let's remember this is an AIO. By design it's a feat of compromise. Engineering balance. Whether we like their goal and execution is moot. People seem to hate notebook for a long time after I adopted them as my primary machine, and yet they are more common than desktop PCs in the market. There are things I'd change about the iMac (there are things I'd change about nearly every product) but I still think it's the most remarkable iMac Apple has ever created and I look forward to jumping back into the desktop PC after 1.5 decades.

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post #73 of 165
"Special deals are also available through Apple-authorized reseller MacMall, which is offering all four standard iMac models along with CONFIGURATION OPTIONS. Customers will receive a free copy of Parallels, a $79.99 value, and MacMall also offers financing with an extra $20 off and no payments or interest for six months."

It's very IMPORTANT to realize that when one orders a Mac from MacMall that not all components may be covered under Apple's warranty. If you get a hard drive or RAM upgrade on a unit you order from MacMall MacMall will be PUTTING THIRD PARTY COMPONENTS into your computer. These components will NOT BE COVERED UNDER APPLE'S WARRANTY. If your hard drive fails or your RAM causes issues/fails you will have to go through an unauthorized third party to have your unit repaired. Apple authorized repair centers are bound not to repair components under warranty that are not covered under the warranty - ie someone else's stuff installed into your computer by a third party (in this case, MacMall). They won't be able to cover them under Apple's warranty at all. Maybe one can get them covered under the OEM's warranty but that's a huge hassle. Just an FYI.
post #74 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

Pity they designed it to be so hard to duplicate that it's super-hard for Apple themselves to make, effectively missing the holiday season apparently.

 

If you order either of them online my guess is you'll get it before the holidays. So no missing the holiday season.

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post #75 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by TokyoJimu View Post

Decent-sounding speakers need depth. Looks like form wins out over function this time.

 

If they reengineered the speakers in the next version, they could use the vertical depth, more perhaps? Better speakers and a retina display and this would be the perfect desktop computer IMO.

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post #76 of 165
Here's a full teardown video:



Looks like they've glued the screen on now. I was wondering if they'd hold the entire panel in with magnets. I suppose it's a screwless design but y'know a lot of problems in life can be solved with a good screw now and again.

The best place for the screws is at the base where you don't see them but with the chin they can't really do that. Now customers have little choice but to take the machine back to Apple for a hard drive failure or RAM upgrade. The RAM upgrade requires taking out the motherboard. I suppose that's one way of getting people to spend $200 on 16GB of RAM.

Obviously when the computer is working fine, this design is no big deal and for most customers this will be the case but for the few where it does go wrong, it's now a major problem. This is where a laptop + display is a far better setup because not only is the laptop more easily carted into the Apple Store, it can be opened very easily. Same with a Mini in fact.
post #77 of 165
So, let us begin with the dissection of nonsense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Then again, since you already knew this your expectation for the build-in speakers were low to begin with. As should be with anyone, so yes, separate, external speakers is the best config if you want to listen to music or play a video. For incoming mail et cetera sounds the build-in speakers will suffice. That's what they're designed for.

A $2000 computer is only designed to read E-mail?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcode View Post

Firstly, if you're using the built-in speakers on an AIO and expecting awesome results then you're in for a big disappointment...

Nope, I'm only expecting average results, and apparently it can't even provide that. Would you be making the same comment had Apple included a crappy TN display rather than an IPS? You can connect an external monitor to an iMac,. too, so this shouldn't be a problem, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GadgetCanada View Post

I completely agree!!! No ODD, no firewire, no USB 2.0 (only USB 3.0), no HDMI, no SVGA, no RS232, no 3.5" floppy, no 5.25" floppy, no reel-to-reel backup. Why can't Apple simply live in the past so we can have all these things in our computers forever!!!!?

Joke's on you; your reduction to absurdity didn't even address the point of the poster you're quoting...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ltcompuser View Post

Whether it's a TV or AIO, I've found that if you want decent sound, you need  external speakers. My M-Audio AV40 speakers more than make up for any deficiency in the built in speakers. :-)

Yes, but when you only want average sound, the built-in speakers should suffice; otherwise it defeats the point of an all-in-one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elroth View Post

No all-in-one sounds good enough - add external speakers.

That is no excuse to actually make the built-in audio worse. The mid-2011 iMac does actually sound good enough for me, but the late-2011 MacBook Pro doesn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

What relevance does that have to anything since DVD is more commonly played via an appliance or console in an HEC, not on a notebook or desktop PC. If you really want to play 720x480 MPEG-2 files on a 2560x1440 display then you certainly can but don't imply that is why people are buying Macs or how they prefer to watch their DVDs.

I don't think that was the implication; you may be committing a straw man fallacy there. I think what the person you replied to was trying to say is that optical media is far from being dead or irrelevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

As for actual views streaming video far exceeds DVD video views. There is a reason Netflix, YouTube, Amazon, Hulu and iTunes Store are all thriving while Hollywood Video and Blockbuster are out of business.

Only in the US, so moot point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

An external drive is available if you need it. If you absolutely need an internal drive, buy last year's model or buy something else. If you're right and most people need ODD, then Apple will lose most of their iMac business and will have to backtrack. I'm not holding my breath, though.

I have to question the intelligence of someone who feels happy about paying the same or more for less...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

This is true but people like creating "gates" with Apple so now we get speaker gate.

Apple prides themselves for quality and make us pay for it; it is thus perfectly reasonable to see complaints and complain when quality falters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

Besides the visual attraction to style, there are other more "practical" reasons.

To whom?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

A lighter product.  Why should you care?  Lighter means less fuel resources, and less costs to ship product from factory to your door.

Why should I care? In case you haven't noticed, the new iMacs are actually more expensive than the previous generation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

A smaller package.  Meaning more can be squeezed into a given space.  One can ship more product in the same space.  Again, less shipping, less fuel, less costs.

Most of the package is either filled with foam or air...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

Less materials.  Thinner means less metal.  Less metal means less resources used.

Aluminum is the third most common element on Earth after oxygen and silicon, there's plenty of it to go around, and it can be recycled, so you're concerned with a virtually unlimited resource.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

Or is it all supposed to be only about you??

Of course, I'm the one paying for everything, am I not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

Exactly! You're buying a computer not a sound system! Since when were built-in speakers supposed to be anything more than adequate for people that don't need or want decent sounding audio? You can't go past the B&W MM-1s in my opinion! They look and sound amazing for their size and price.

There's a huge distance between zero-bass response and decent sounding audio that you seem to be ignoring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I think you'd be hard pressed to find any computer with good sound without adding external parts. I think it can be done with the old horizontal desktop form factor that existed before the tower style took over, but that's silly.

I'm perfectly fine with the speakers in the mid-2011 iMac, which do have bass response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by "Apple 
[" url="/t/154718/review-roundup-new-imac-display-and-redesigned-chassis-shine-audio-a-step-back/40#post_2239755"]As for the whiners, your comments are irrelevant and don't really matter. Apple is selling all that they can make, so your whining will change nothing and has zero effect upon anything. Apple is not interested in making computers for cavemen and dinosaurs who need optical drives anymore. I can't even remember the last time that I touched a physical disc. Get with the program, it's almost 2013.

Our opinions are so irrelevant that we only got 2 executives fired and an apology letter in the space of 2 months...

Quote:
Originally Posted by "Apple 
[" url="/t/154718/review-roundup-new-imac-display-and-redesigned-chassis-shine-audio-a-step-back/40#post_2239755"]As for the lack of bass, that is hardly an important issue, because anybody who claims to demand good audio quality is not using any internal speakers on any all in one machine or on any TV. You hook up your machine to quality external speakers and monitors if you need great quality audio and full sound reproduction, including earth shattering bass, or you plug in a pair of expensive headphones if you care about sound quality. That goes for the previous iMacs also, that were thicker.

There's a huge distance between zero bass response and great quality audio. Why are you ignoring that distance? And how does your comment justify actually degrading the quality of the speakers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by "Apple 
[" url="/t/154718/review-roundup-new-imac-display-and-redesigned-chassis-shine-audio-a-step-back/40#post_2239765"]I have line in ports on most, if not all of my older Macs, but I wonder how many people actually ever used them?

I use them to record calls from my iPhone because I can't intercept the audio using an app. Headphones with mic connected to the headphone jack, iPhone's headphone jack connected to line-in jack, both sources aggregated as mono channels in a single virtual stereo audio device, sound from the left is one side of the call, sound from the right is the other side, and if I want them merged I can simply record or playback in mono without any loss of information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by "Apple 
[" url="/t/154718/review-roundup-new-imac-display-and-redesigned-chassis-shine-audio-a-step-back/40#post_2239755"]I don't know what the stats are, but I'd venture to guess that the number is extremely low. Why include a port that maybe 1% of customers use?

You've answered your own question, because of the 1%... I think that a different and more interesting question would be: Why not include the port? It's not like you're gonna pay less for a device that doesn't include the port...

Quote:
Originally Posted by "Apple 
[" url="/t/154718/review-roundup-new-imac-display-and-redesigned-chassis-shine-audio-a-step-back/40#post_2239755"] What about the other 99%?

Yeah, what about the 99%? What do they lose for having an extra port?

Quote:
Originally Posted by "Apple 
[" url="/t/154718/review-roundup-new-imac-display-and-redesigned-chassis-shine-audio-a-step-back/40#post_2239755"]I would say that anybody recording anything into their Macs, and is serious about it, are using external interfaces. And if somebody is not serious about it, then they probably fall into the category of people who have never even used that port ever.

Yes, because people only use their general purpose computers for one thing, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantz View Post

All these comments about lack of bass is pure nonsense. Who wants to listen music from a computer anyway, without plugging decent externals ? I have B&W MM-1 and that's what I call decent. Same rationale as DVD drive : get external.

I do, and play games too. My requirements are perfectly met by the mid-2011 iMacs, which DO have bass response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantz View Post

Ridiculous. It's a computer, not a sound system. And that "bass" obsession is ridiculous too. Overloaded bass in sound systems are just for thugs driving around playing  Eminem at full blast, not for musicians.

The mid-2011 iMacs have bass response. Does it make them sound systems? I also have to question how expecting some bass from built-in speakers could be classified as ridiculous, especially when the classifications come from people defending thinner desktop designs...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Nope. Even there, music enthusiasts would be complaining about lack of bass. Nothing less than a 12" subwoofer is good enough for some people. Try fitting that into a computer case.

That's no excuse to degrade the experience...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

I disagree. The point of the AIO is that for most people it operates without adding a bunch of stuff and connecting a lot of cables. That's still true of the iMac - most people don't need ODD or massive bass sound. The fact that it's expandable to allow the few people who need it to add accessories doesn't mean that the entire point is lost.

There's a huge difference between zero bass response to bass and massive bass sound.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

That said, for people with very low expectations, the speakers in a TV or even the current iMac can be acceptable. If you want good sound, though, it's easy enough to add in either case.

The old iMacs had speakers which quality was comparable to that of mainstream TVs. If these are even worse and have zero bass response, as the reviewers stated, that puts them right there at the bottom along with mainstream laptop speakers, which are really really bad and useless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vorsos View Post

Yes, because the 2011 iMacs were lauded for their strong bass response.

Who made that claim?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

But seriously, that's what Airplay is for. I have a wireless printer in my closet, and AppleTV on my surround system. Internal speakers do not concern me, Admiral. I want that thinness, not excuses.

I assume you would be OK if the display was crap, too, right? Because, well, you have AirPlay and an Apple TV, and the point of an all-in-one is completely lost in you...
post #78 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur View Post

Tear down of the new iMac shows free space at the top.  I wonder why Apple didn't raise everything out of the chin and eliminate it.  The edges would have had to remain the same thickness as the previous version; however, the iMac would be the same size as the 27" monitor. Much neater than the thin edges.

I've said it many times in this forum: the chin looks good.

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post #79 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

The RAM upgrade requires taking out the motherboard. I suppose that's one way of getting people to spend $200 on 16GB of RAM.

Obviously when the computer is working fine, this design is no big deal and for most customers this will be the case but for the few where it does go wrong, it's now a major problem. This is where a laptop + display is a far better setup because not only is the laptop more easily carted into the Apple Store, it can be opened very easily. Same with a Mini in fact.

1) Thanks for posting the video.

2) I don't think that's unreasonable. As noted in a different thread I'll be paying $150 for 2x8GB Kingston RAM for my iMac.

3) Yeah, people that are buying an iMac are even less likely to upgrade than those who have traditionally bought towers in the past. It's just not something most do.

4) Note that the 27" does have easy access to the RAM in the back. It's too bad that this wasn't an option on the 21.5" model (as well as having a 3.5" HDD) but it is what it is and those that are buying a desktop with a 1TB drive max should know this.


PS: I noticed that Apple doesn't advertise their Fusion Drive capacity as being the HDD+SSD capacity, but instead just the capacity of the largest drive. Not that it's too much more but 1TB+128GB is 1.08TB.

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post #80 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post

So, let us begin with the dissection of nonsense.
A $2000 computer is only designed to read E-mail?

Speaking of nonsense, you drew a conclusion that the new iMac was only designed for reading email.
Quote:
I don't think that was the implication; you may be committing a straw man fallacy there. I think what the person you replied to was trying to say is that optical media is far from being dead or irrelevant.

That was the implication. He stated, rather incorrectly, that physical video media sales far exceed virtual video sales which should require that all PCs have ODDs until such time that is no longer the case.

It's an irrelevant metric if physical video media is not used primary on "PCs" but in dedicated appliances connected to a TV.

Blu-ray is great but it's not something I would expect any reasonable person to say should be on every PC sold simply to have that option. And suggesting that DVD with it's obsolete codec, container and resolution should be continue be in every Mac simply because it's still good enough for many in their HEC due to the high cost of Blu-ray is absurd.

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