or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Current Mac Hardware › Review roundup: New iMac display and redesigned chassis shine, audio a step back
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Review roundup: New iMac display and redesigned chassis shine, audio a step back - Page 3

post #81 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by TokyoJimu View Post

Decent-sounding speakers need depth. Looks like form wins out over function this time.

There we go. "Bass response-gate" is now in business on the forums. After all, wasn't the whole point of the iMac to be room-filling speakers?

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #82 of 165

The iMac only got a front cover large photo for 1 day... 1 day. That speaks volumes about the future of Mac to me. 

 

http://www.apple.com/

post #83 of 165
Originally Posted by igxqrrl View Post
…if it needs an external optical drive, and it needs external speakers, it is looking less like an "All-In-One".

 

But it "needs" neither.


Originally Posted by Mobius View Post
What's the point in making compromises in functionality… …lack of ODD…

 

Because that isn't a compromise in anything.


Originally Posted by cameronj View Post
What do you think is the cause of the computers selling out to such a long wait already?  The crazy huge pent-up demand?  Again, believe what you want, but the preponderance of evidence all points one way.

 

Yeah, it points to the pent-up demand. If you're going to lie about self-made shortages done to make Apple look good, at least have proof.


Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

Or is it all supposed to be only about you??

 

Yes.

 

Originally Posted by john_l_uk View Post
One thing that is both a step backwards and inexplicable on the grounds of cost is abandoning a line-in port.

 

But did anyone really use it? I have a quality microphone and… it's USB. I mean, line-in? That's very '80s.


Originally Posted by AnalogJack View Post
I cannot believe the idiotic Cnet comment that they felt that Apple was being deceptive by pretending that the computer was actually 5mm deep. 

 

I believe that the advertising images are slightly deceptive, but I do not at all believe that Apple is begin deceptive in actually telling you the size.


Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post
…which I accept because it's a laptop.

 

This is why it's okay, and this is why you have no argument.


Originally Posted by sequitur View Post
I wonder why Apple didn't raise everything out of the chin and eliminate it.

 

Stops reselling scams, is an iconic look, does actually hold components, and I actually like it!

 

Remember, it's not the same thickness top to bottom. 


Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post
Joke's on you; your reduction to absurdity didn't even address the point of the poster you're quoting...

 

Sounds more like he's quoting exactly what people who don't know what they want always say about such things.


Yes, but when you only want average sound, the built-in speakers should suffice; otherwise it defeats the point of an all-in-one.

 

And they're giving you average sound.


That is no excuse to actually make the built-in audio worse. The mid-2011 iMac does actually sound good enough for me, but the late-2011 MacBook Pro doesn't.

 

You're fine with the latter but not with the former. That's why this is okay, and that's why you don't have much place to complain about it.


I think what the person you replied to was trying to say is that optical media is far from being dead or irrelevant.

 

The person was wrong, so does it matter?


Only in the US, so moot point.

Yeah, there are no digital video rentals/purchases anywhere but the US. 😒


Apple prides themselves for quality and make us pay for it; it is thus perfectly reasonable to see complaints and complain when quality falters.

 

And yet you hold a double standard on that yourself.

 

Why should I care?

 

S'pose if you hate the environment and would rather pee on an oil-covered seagull than clean it off, that's fine.

 

I'm no "mean, green, tree-hugging machine" myself, but I like hearing about costs going down.


Most of the package is either filled with foam or air...

 

Are you honestly pretending this invalidates anything that he has said? Really?


…there's plenty of it to go around, and it can be recycled, so you're concerned with a virtually unlimited resource.

 

At current rate of use, we run out of aluminum in 2040. And we're increasing our rate of use. Talk about a full-body record scratch. 


Of course, I'm the one paying for everything, am I not?

 

So go buy a PC box instead, since you don't know how the iMac is built.


Our opinions are so irrelevant that we only got 2 executives fired and an apology letter in the space of 2 months...

 

Nothing to do whatsoever with what we're talking about.


There's a huge distance between zero bass response and great quality audio. Why are you ignoring that distance?

 

Sounds like you're ignoring it.


I use them to record calls from my iPhone because I can't intercept the audio using an app.

 

That's illegal, yeah?


You've answered your own question, because of the 1%...

 

And you've invalidated your entire point: that's not why the iMac exists. Go buy a PC box.


There's a huge difference between zero bass response to bass and massive bass sound.

 

Echo! Echo. Echo…


…which are really really bad and useless.

 

Double standard, AND you're changing your story in the same post! That's the dream of the Brigade and you've matched it!


Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post
2) I don't think that's unreasonable. As noted in a different thread I'll be paying $150 for 2x8GB Kingston RAM for my iMac.

 

I think it sort of is, since there's no 32GB option when the thing can handle it. I guess 16GB sticks still don't exist in that size yet?


Originally Posted by pinkunicorn View Post
The iMac only got a front cover large photo for 1 day... 1 day. That speaks volumes about the future of Mac to me. 

 

It cycles. If you didn't already know that they don't care about their computers, is there really anything that can be done to help you now? Been FIVE YEARS.

 

1000


Edited by Tallest Skil - 12/1/12 at 8:16am

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply
post #84 of 165
Let the haters have their haterade. I can't think of a single PC or Mac that has enclosed speakers with enough bass response. They all sound tinny, which is why no one who gives two shits about audio would be using those speakers instead of plugging in external speakers. Hell, my HP desktop at the office has more exhaust fan noise than its zero-bass monaural speaker can drown out. Do the trolls praise Apple for iMacs being nearly silent from fan noise?

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #85 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Speaking of nonsense, you drew a conclusion that the new iMac was only designed for reading email.

Did you notice the question mark at the end?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

That was the implication. He stated, rather incorrectly, that physical video media sales far exceed virtual video sales which should require that all PCs have ODDs until such time that is no longer the case.

Nope, that is your interpretation of it. As you may have noticed, I provided you with a completely different interpretation, which for reasons beyond my understanding you did not even address...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

It's an irrelevant metric if physical video media is not used primary on "PCs" but in dedicated appliances connected to a TV.

Why would it need to be used primarily on PCs? It is clear that the media type is still used, so the claim that it is obsolete (and the comparison with the floppy drives of age) are pointless.
post #86 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpadhiyar View Post

A "zero bass response" is a very strong step backwards if that's the case. I think Apple must stop this fetish with thin design.

Oh, there's no end to the free advice people give to Apple. My favorites include: "shut it all down and give the money back to the shareholders" and "license Mac OS to clone makers."

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #87 of 165
Quote:
Double standard, AND you're changing your story in the same post! That's the dream of the Brigade and you've matched it!

There's no double standard anywhere, I'm talking about two distinct products with two completely different functions. Laptops compromise their peripherals for portability and a built-in UPS. Desktops, however, do not have the portability constraint, so they should not make such compromises, especially when they don't have to. A desktop does NOT need to be thinner than a 2011 iMac, it does NOT need to have its optical drive removed for space, it does NOT need to have communication ports removed, and it does NOT need to sound worse than the average TV.
post #88 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkunicorn View Post

The iMac only got a front cover large photo for 1 day... 1 day. That speaks volumes about the future of Mac to me. 

http://www.apple.com/

1) The photos switch. Refresh your page a few times before another acorn hits you on your head.

2) Regardless if Apple ever puts a Mac on their front page or holds an event showcasing a new Mac that doesn't mean the Mac will go away, it only means the Mac's importance has waned because the "PCs" importance has waned compared to other computing devices.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I think it sort of is, since there's no 32GB option when the thing can handle it. I guess 16GB sticks still don't exist in that size yet?

That's the thing. It can't handle it if the sticks don't yet exist. And imagine how pricey they will be when they are available.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post

Did you notice the question mark at the end?
Nope, that is your interpretation of it. As you may have noticed, I provided you with a completely different interpretation, which for reasons beyond my understanding you did not even address...
Why would it need to be used primarily on PCs? It is clear that the media type is still used, so the claim that it is obsolete (and the comparison with the floppy drives of age) are pointless.

1) I did notice your question mark but that doesn't mean you were asking a reasonable question. Your comment was clearly an assertion? (see what I did there?)

2) Everything that I see, hear, touch, smell, and taste is an interpretation. I read words on a display and interpreted their meaning. Those are the senses humans use to interact with the world. Your interpretation feels forced and poorly contrived.

3) Why is a claim that the ODD should remain in PCs because optical video media are still popular be relevant when ODDs are not most common way in which these videos are viewed. That's a real head scratcher¡ <== sarcmark, so you don't misinterpret my comment.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #89 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by irnchriz View Post

BOSE..... Hahahahahaha... Seriously......hahahaha..... Never going to improve ANY audio experience.

Better than a lot of computer speakers, probably all internal speakers, but that's a low bar. Though you pay for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpadhiyar View Post

A "zero bass response" is a very strong step backwards if that's the case. I think Apple must stop this fetish with thin design.

It might be hyperbolic. I'd really like to see some numbers comparing with previous models.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phone-UI-Guy View Post

You can get a USB audio device to steal music. But seriously, any online streaming service that you can listen to in a browser can also be captured to a file if you know anything about Javascript, HTML, and using the debug capabilities in Safari. 1wink.gif Even YouTube videos via the mobile site can go straight to disk. 

What? If you think a computer audio jack is primarily used to steal music, I really don't know what to say. Audio Hijack is a better solution than what you suggest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantz View Post

Ridiculous. It's a computer, not a sound system. And that "bass" obsession is ridiculous too. Overloaded bass in sound systems are just for thugs driving around playing  Eminem at full blast, not for musicians. 

There's a sliding scale, and there's a long slide between the two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post

I'm perfectly fine with the speakers in the mid-2011 iMac, which do have bass response.

I have a mid-2011 iMac too, and I'm wondering where you're finding this alleged bass response. There's only so much bass that can be had from a 2" or smaller driver. Being constrained on spatial volume doesn't help.
Edited by JeffDM - 12/1/12 at 8:45am
post #90 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post

There's no double standard anywhere, I'm talking about two distinct products with two completely different functions. Laptops compromise their peripherals for portability and a built-in UPS. Desktops, however, do not have the portability constraint, so they should not make such compromises, especially when they don't have to. A desktop does NOT need to be thinner than a 2011 iMac, it does NOT need to have its optical drive removed for space, it does NOT need to have communication ports removed, and it does NOT need to sound worse than the average TV.

1) So your argument is now that it's not required by some law you've invented so Apple shouldn't do it even if it's what the average iMac customer wants?

2) There was room in the previous iMac for a 3.5" and 5.25" floppy drive. Does that mean Apple should have included it? They also could have put a hundreds of USB ports in the back. Can you guess why they didn't?

3) Bottom line is that you feel slighted by the changes as if Apple is required to design its products around your specific needs. My interpretation of for-profit companies is that focusing on single user's obsolescing wishes does not a successful business model make. I found that I didn't use my ODD as of many years ago and felt the inclusion in my 13" MBP — taking up 25% of the internal space — was a waste but I didn't complain that Apple had stopped innovating, I found a solution with OptiBay.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #91 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post

Why would it need to be used primarily on PCs? It is clear that the media type is still used, so the claim that it is obsolete (and the comparison with the floppy drives of age) are pointless.

 

Wow...  So, because you have a DVD player in your living room, and you continue to want to put DVD's into that machine .........  This suddenly makes using Optical Drives in an iMac less obsolete (because apparently the two are somehow related)?

 

If what you're really whining about is that you can no longer download pirated DVD content and burn it off to watch in your living room, then you need to either get more creative or start paying for your stuff.

post #92 of 165
Originally Posted by bcode View Post

If what you're really whining about is that you can no longer download pirated DVD content and burn it off to watch in your living room, then you need to either get more creative or start paying for your stuff.

 

Could always just AirPlay the pirated content to a TV with an Apple TV. lol.gif

 

But no, they demand 700 megabyte (so you can burn it on a CD) XVID files (that no one can play on any modern player).

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply
post #93 of 165
Visited local Apple Store to see a new iMac. I must say, it is a thing of beauty. I found myself trying to rationalize why I should have one (have a 15 inch MBP, 13 inch MBA for work, iPad 3 Gen, iPad mini, & iPhone 5), it is that stunning. Why thin? It is simply beautiful. Apple will sell tons of these computers, heck, even I may end up getting one after all.
post #94 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Could always just AirPlay the pirated content to a TV with an Apple TV. lol.gif

But no, they demand 700 megabyte (so you can burn it on a CD) XVID files (that no one can play on any modern player).

That was favourite complaint from the long overdue switch this year from AVI/XviD to MP4/H.264 by the consortium that converts TV shows to torrents.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #95 of 165
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post
…the consortium that converts TV shows to torrents.

 

Oh, they're organized, are they? lol.gif

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply
post #96 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by bugsnw View Post

 

I'm fine with the speakers on the iMac. If I was into desktop gaming, I'd probably spring for some Bose speakers. It's funny that even in 2012, reviewers of big screen HDTVs pan them for the small speakers. Does anyone buy a huge 65" LCD and then settle for the built ins? Even a cheap Bose 3-speaker surround system improves the experience tremendously!

Bose?  Really?  You would choose them?  There are so many companies that produce better audio for the same price, Klipsch for one.  

post #97 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Oh, they're organized, are they? lol.gif

There are distribution groups. I think they all act independently of each other much like different chapters of Fight Club so there is no centralized management or a single point of attack from those that want to bring them down. The first of internet piracy...

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #98 of 165

What would be a good way for this model to have impressive sound output? Front/rear grilles? A wider bottom edge for more sound wave breathing room? And what would all that well-tuned reverb do to the other internal components? There's nothing spinning hard drives love more than high-frequency vibration.

Everyone wants to complain, but no one wants to completely think through the problem.

I mean yes, it would be nice to have, along with a dozen other features I want that fall outside their focus. But this model is what it is, and I bet the majority of casual users won't even notice, just as they don't see an issue with the quality of listening to music through YouTube. Anyone who is serious about audio already has a nice component system.

 

Comparing the lack of internal ODD to DVD sales shows a lack of understanding use cases. Droids outsell iPhones, even though iPhones generate far more web traffic. Why? Different use cases.

 

Suddenly Newton View Post
Oh, there's no end to the free advice people give to Apple. My favorites include: "shut it all down and give the money back to the shareholders" and "license Mac OS to clone makers."

That's a dangerous slippery slope position. The existence of bad advice should not preclude the invitation to offer advice. If it did, Apple would not have so many "Send Feedback" options throughout their apps and website.

 

pinkunicorn View Post

The iMac only got a front cover large photo for 1 day... 1 day. That speaks volumes about the future of Mac to me. 

Front page time is directly proportional to sales volume, at least from this casual observer. I don't recall seeing the XServe front and center too often...

[this account has been abandoned]

Reply

[this account has been abandoned]

Reply
post #99 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by David291 View Post

I totally agree. What is this obsession with thinness? What's the point? The user sits in front of the computer! What does it matter if it's 1/4", 1/2", or 1" thick?

 

I think that compromising features just to get it thinner is not a good idea. Plus, I have never been a big fan of the thermal design of the last generation of iMacs. Those iMacs seem to have a higher failure rate than that of past machines. I know a number of people that have internal hard drive failures, plus motherboards seem to go bad more than usual. The graphics chip freaks out and stops working properly. These types of failures are often due to long-term thermal stress.

 

Did you ever push one of those iMac hard for a while and then feel how HOT the exhaust air is across the top? That just stresses everything out.

 

I am so tired of hearing this particular "complaint," and most of your assumptions just seem wrong to me.  The point of the thin-ness is that the iMac is widely deployed as a desktop (as are most all in one computer designs).  

 

Thinner and lighter means:

 

- lower shipping costs

- less pollution generated

- fewer computers in the landfill

- more efficient manufacturing

- less packaging

 

It also means that for the folks who need to deploy several hundred of the things in a lab environment that it's just that much easier carrying them around.  It means that you can move it around on your desk much easier, and turn it so as to show something to someone else.  The new iMac is a sealed, light, thin, all-in-one desktop that can be rapidly deployed and setup, which is basically exactly what the market is wanting.  

 

As someone who sees hundreds and hundreds of Mac devices in my day job, all the stuff you say about the latest models being prone to heat problems also seems totally wrong to me.  The failure rate of iMacs due to heat or any other cause, has in my experience gone far *down* from where it was previously, not up.

 

Finally the fact that you think it significant how hot it gets at the top just shows you to be an amateur.  The aluminium gets warm because that's part of the cooling design.  A computer getting warm or even hot doesn't mean that there is something "wrong." It doesn't mean that it's a bad design, or that it's likely to fail.  It just means that electrical resistance causes heat, and that heat rises (duh).  

 

In my experience, iMacs never get "too hot to touch" or anything even close.  They also only get warm (notice I used the correct "warm" word instead of implying disaster by using "hot"),  at the top edge which is basically WHERE PEOPLE RARELY EVER TOUCH THEM (which is kinda the point).  

post #100 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post


There's no double standard anywhere, I'm talking about two distinct products with two completely different functions. Laptops compromise their peripherals for portability and a built-in UPS. Desktops, however, do not have the portability constraint, so they should not make such compromises, especially when they don't have to. A desktop does NOT need to be thinner than a 2011 iMac, it does NOT need to have its optical drive removed for space, it does NOT need to have communication ports removed, and it does NOT need to sound worse than the average TV.

 

This strikes me as a combination of gross exaggeration, (sound "worse than the average TV), and backwards logic (you say that the ODD was removed so it could be thin, but I say it's thin because the ODD was removed).  Additionally, all of the other changes, like the "laptop" hard drive on the 21.5" model, and the removal of Firewire, and the "sealed" design have logical reasons behind them that don't have anything to do with the thin-ness.  

 

It seems to me that you are just assuming the thin-ness is the driver behind these design choices when in fact you have no real evidence of this and there are many other explanations to the contrary.  I think you are just selling a variation on the "Apple does form over function" argument here.  An argument that has been discredited over and over again.  

post #101 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post

Laptops compromise their peripherals for portability and a built-in UPS. Desktops, however, do not have the portability constraint, so they should not make such compromises, especially when they don't have to. A desktop does NOT need to be thinner than a 2011 iMac, it does NOT need to have its optical drive removed for space, it does NOT need to have communication ports removed, and it does NOT need to sound worse than the average TV.

 

 

First, has it ever occurred to you that Apple didn't remove things in order to make the iMac thinner ("compromise"), but instead, found that after removing legacy features, the iMac could be made thinner?

 

If we never removed ports, features, and peripherals, you'd still have Apple Desktop Bus, NuBus slots, 3.5" floppy disks, 25-pin SCSI ports, serial ports, and even a phone jack for a modem.

 

Just because you do not need to remove something does not mean you shouldn't.

 

Second, the performance targets you made up for a desktop are completely arbitrary. You say a desktop does not need to be thinner than a 2011 iMac? You just drew the line in the sand at the 2011 design? What about the 2001 iMac? Does a desktop need to be thinner than that? It does not need to sound worse than the average TV? How is that the appropriate benchmark? The average TV is designed to be viewed across a room, not sitting at arms length in front of you. Isn't it more appropriate to compare the iMac's sound quality against that of other desktop computers with built-in speakers?

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #102 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vorsos View Post

That's a dangerous slippery slope position. The existence of bad advice should not preclude the invitation to offer advice. If it did, Apple would not have so many "Send Feedback" options throughout their apps and website.

 

Is that your polite way of saying "STFU"?

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #103 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

As someone who sees hundreds and hundreds of Mac devices in my day job, all the stuff you say about the latest models being prone to heat problems also seems totally wrong to me.  The failure rate of iMacs due to heat or any other cause, has in my experience gone far *down* from where it was previously, not up.

This point often gets lost. Everything is a compromise.

Apple has elected to eliminate some of the customer serviceable parts on their products (even going so far as to not have swappable batteries in the iPhone, of course).

While the customer loses some convenience, there is a benefit as well. The ability to swap batteries, RAM, hard disks, etc requires the system to use additional space and have additional reinforcements. The product is more sturdy the way Apple is doing it. More reliable. Smaller. Lighter. Less expensive. It allows them to make a much more environmentally benign product that will last longer without problems - and keep the cost manageable.

If someone wants a big clunky computer where every component can be swapped by the user, they can build their own. Or buy a cheap Dell box. But that's not a feature that Apple's target audience values very much, so why not eliminate it - and obtain all the benefits listed above?
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
post #104 of 165
Quote:
1) So your argument is now that it's not required by some law you've invented so Apple shouldn't do it even if it's what the average iMac customer wants?

Straw man argument fallacy. Also, my argument never changed, I merely stated that there was no double standard anywhere by demonstrating that I was, in fact, comparing completely different products.

Quote:
2) There was room in the previous iMac for a 3.5" and 5.25" floppy drive. Does that mean Apple should have included it? They also could have put a hundreds of USB ports in the back. Can you guess why they didn't?

Reduction to absurdity fallacy.

Quote:
3) Bottom line is that you feel slighted by the changes as if Apple is required to design its products around your specific needs. My interpretation of for-profit companies is that focusing on single user's obsolescing wishes does not a successful business model make. I found that I didn't use my ODD as of many years ago and felt the inclusion in my 13" MBP — taking up 25% of the internal space — was a waste but I didn't complain that Apple had stopped innovating, I found a solution with OptiBay.

This thread is about desktops, not laptops, so moot point.

Quote:
Wow... So, because you have a DVD player in your living room, and you continue to want to put DVD's into that machine ......... This suddenly makes using Optical Drives in an iMac less obsolete (because apparently the two are somehow related)?

Maybe I want to record something to listen / watch on my living room, such as stuff from iTunes... Maybe I actually use optical media because of how cheap, disposable, and universal it is... Whatever the case, just because YOU don't find optical media useful, doesn't mean it NEEDS to be removed. It's an all-in-one, after all; if we're going to have to buy multiple devices to go use it, then where's the "all" part of the all-in-one?

Quote:
This strikes me as a combination of gross exaggeration, (sound "worse than the average TV), and backwards logic (you say that the ODD was removed so it could be thin, but I say it's thin because the ODD was removed). Additionally, all of the other changes, like the "laptop" hard drive on the 21.5" model, and the removal of Firewire, and the "sealed" design have logical reasons behind them that don't have anything to do with the thin-ness.

How is it gross exaggeration? The mid-2011 iMac already sounds like your average TV, and that has bass response, so assuming this one sounds worse (otherwise the reviewers wouldn't waste time pointing it out), what makes what I said an exaggeration of any kind?

What exactly do you gain with the removal of the optical drive? What exactly do you gain with the removal of the Firewire and line-in ports? If you're going to answer "a thinner all-in-one", then you'll be validating my point of view, so think carefully...

Quote:
First, has it ever occurred to you that Apple didn't remove things in order to make the iMac thinner ("compromise"), but instead, found that after removing legacy features, the iMac could be made thinner?

Yes, but then how can you explain the compromise in audio quality?

Quote:
If we never removed ports, features, and peripherals, you'd still have Apple Desktop Bus, NuBus slots, 3.5" floppy disks, 25-pin SCSI ports, serial ports, and even a phone jack for a modem.

And how exactly would that be a bad thing? I had a 3.5" floppy drive on my desktop all the way until I gave it away in 2011. I seldom used it, but it didn't hurt to be there, either, so I fail to understand your point.

Quote:
If we never removed ports, features, and peripherals, you'd still have Apple Desktop Bus, NuBus slots, 3.5" floppy disks, 25-pin SCSI ports, serial ports, and even a phone jack for a modem.

And why should you?

Quote:
Second, the performance targets you made up for a desktop are completely arbitrary.

No, they are not. They are based on the performance of existing products of the same kind.
Edited by Vaelian - 12/1/12 at 11:11am
post #105 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Thinner and lighter means:

- lower shipping costs
- less pollution generated
- fewer computers in the landfill
- more efficient manufacturing
- less packaging

I think those are beneficial side-effects, maybe not the primary intent. What really sells a product is impressing a prospective buyer, and a very thin design helps with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Second, the performance targets you made up for a desktop are completely arbitrary. You say a desktop does not need to be thinner than a 2011 iMac? You just drew the line in the sand at the 2011 design? What about the 2001 iMac? Does a desktop need to be thinner than that? It does not need to sound worse than the average TV? How is that the appropriate benchmark? The average TV is designed to be viewed across a room, not sitting at arms length in front of you. Isn't it more appropriate to compare the iMac's sound quality against that of other desktop computers with built-in speakers?


The TV market seems to be going to thinner even though the diminishing returns of practical benefit have already happened years ago. The market likes thinner because the profile looks nicer, never mind the stand or even the wall mount. I don't think the typical consumer cares about reduced material use, but that is a benefit too. While someone sitting *at* the computer won't see the thinness at the time of sitting, those passing or standing near the unit will.

I'm sure the sound quality is pretty good for internal pieces. External speakers have always been the way to improve on it. Adding more resonant volume inside the iMac is a less than ideal solution to improve sound.
post #106 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Best AIO on the market, and has been for several years now. 

 

As far as I'm concerned, it's not an AIO without an optical drive.    They still are highly practical for many (not all) people.    

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TokyoJimu View Post

Decent-sounding speakers need depth. Looks like form wins out over function this time.

With Apple, every time and I think that's one of their weaknesses.    It's great to own beautifully designed products of any type, but these are products that are primarily used for their functionality.     I know that Apple has often dropped old technology to push ahead with new technology and I've generally supported that.    But as per the above, I think dropping the optical drive is a big mistake.    Reducing the audio quality is a big mistake.    When it comes down to it, what difference does it make how thick the screen is on a desktop, especially if that means losing functionality?  How often do you look at that computer from the side?     If I have to buy an external speaker system, then it's not an AIO anymore, is it?    If I also have to buy an optical drive either because I want to transfer a CD to iTunes or (gasp!) I want to watch a DVD, now I've got at least three extra boxes on my desk and in spite of the beautiful Mac, my desk doesn't look so nice anymore.   And why do I think that the dropping of the optical drive was not just about form, but also about Apple forcing people to only buy content from iTunes?

 

So I spend from $1300 to $2000 for the stock configurations, I have to add another $1300 if I want the flash drive, I've lost the optical drive, the sound apparently sucks and as an end-user, I can't easily replace memory or the hard drive myself?    And this is supposed to be progress?     All so the display can look fantastic when viewed from the side?  

 

I've been an Apple customer since 1980, but I'm growing increasingly frustrated with Apple these days for a variety of reasons.    Luckily for Apple, there's not much of an alternative.   Apple's got lots of other issues besides Maps.   

post #107 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


1) So your argument is now that it's not required by some law you've invented so Apple shouldn't do it even if it's what the average iMac customer wants?
2) There was room in the previous iMac for a 3.5" and 5.25" floppy drive. Does that mean Apple should have included it? They also could have put a hundreds of USB ports in the back. Can you guess why they didn't?
3) Bottom line is that you feel slighted by the changes as if Apple is required to design its products around your specific needs. My interpretation of for-profit companies is that focusing on single user's obsolescing wishes does not a successful business model make. I found that I didn't use my ODD as of many years ago and felt the inclusion in my 13" MBP — taking up 25% of the internal space — was a waste but I didn't complain that Apple had stopped innovating, I found a solution with OptiBay.


That guy's responses just reeks of a banned member from ages past... just reeks of it Solips....

post #108 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post


That guy's responses just reeks of a banned member from ages past... just reeks of it Solips....

You're probably right.

It's hard to imagine how a reasonable person can argue that making a product thinner has no intrinsic value and use examples of watching obsolete DVD quality video on your 2560x1440 iMac is something Apple should bend over backwards to cater in 2012.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #109 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcode View Post

Had they soldered the RAM to the board or something like that, I could understand the immediate frustration, but as far as I can tell this new enclosure is just as functional and even more powerful than it's predecessor -- hardly a step backward in my opinion.
The panel now appears to be glued to the chassis which on the 21" makes the RAM non-upgradeable.
Shut up and go away, you useless, pathetic FUDmonger - Tallest Skil
Reply
Shut up and go away, you useless, pathetic FUDmonger - Tallest Skil
Reply
post #110 of 165
Can anyone who's already bought the new iMac advise if it comes with a USB stick with recovery OS/Software?
Shut up and go away, you useless, pathetic FUDmonger - Tallest Skil
Reply
Shut up and go away, you useless, pathetic FUDmonger - Tallest Skil
Reply
post #111 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

That guy's responses just reeks of a banned member from ages past... just reeks of it Solips....

I got banned and unbanned. Not sure what you intend to accomplish by pointing that out, though.

Quote:
It's hard to imagine how a reasonable person can argue that making a product thinner has no intrinsic value and use examples of watching obsolete DVD quality video on your 2560x1440 iMac is something Apple should bend over backwards to cater in 2012.

My posts must be giving you a lot of trouble, if you have to create such a straw man to make me look unreasonable...
post #112 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by hentaiboy View Post

Can anyone who's already bought the new iMac advise if it comes with a USB stick with recovery OS/Software?

No Macs comes with external media with restore software on them. They have a recovery partition on the drive. You can also create your own recovery boot disc on a USB stick per a a utility you can DL from Apple's site.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #113 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by hentaiboy 
The panel now appears to be glued to the chassis which on the 21" makes the RAM non-upgradeable.

Some people will still call that technically upgradeable but it's difficult enough to be classed as not user-ugradeable IMO. The ifixit teardown says you'd have to peel off all the old glue right round the display before putting new glue back on to get it back together:

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iMac+Intel+21.5-Inch+EMC+2544+Teardown/11936/1

They might as well have soldered the RAM on if they were going to glue it shut. It only has two slots so it can't be upgraded beyond 16GB RAM.
post #114 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by hentaiboy View Post

The panel now appears to be glued to the chassis which on the 21" makes the RAM non-upgradeable.

Watch a video where OWC uses a guitar pick (and no heat gun) to dismount the screen:

http://blog.macsales.com/15932-what-does-it-take-to-upgrade-a-2012-imac-21-5
Edited by JeffDM - 12/1/12 at 12:13pm
post #115 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Some people will still call that technically upgradeable but it's difficult enough to be classed as not user-ugradeable IMO. The ifixit teardown says you'd have to peel off all the old glue right round the display before putting new glue back on to get it back together:
http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iMac+Intel+21.5-Inch+EMC+2544+Teardown/11936/1
They might as well have soldered the RAM on if they were going to glue it shut. It only has two slots so it can't be upgraded beyond 16GB RAM.

1) It is too bad they didn't go with magnets for this model.

2) At least this does give the option to have some shop replace the RAM for you which is not an option if it's soldered. (edit: The more involved part seems to be how much effort is needed to get to the RAM once you get inside the machine. Still, someone who has experience with this could do probably do it in under a half hour.)

3) Right now 16GB is the max because 8GB sticks are the max but I wouldn't be surprised if we see 12 or 16GB sticks within a year and these iMacs automatically handling them.
Edited by SolipsismX - 12/1/12 at 11:50am

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #116 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


There we go. "Bass response-gate" is now in business on the forums. After all, wasn't the whole point of the iMac to be room-filling speakers?


Can't you let someone express their opinion without resorting to the tiresome refrain of XXXX-gate and sophomoric sarcasm?

post #117 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

Thinner and lighter means:

 

- lower shipping costs

- less pollution generated

- fewer computers in the landfill

- more efficient manufacturing

- less packaging

 

 

Points 2 to 4 depend far more on design and process than on thinness and weight. But, as you have repeated before, you know shit about manufacturing ;-)

post #118 of 165
The more that I think about it the more massive he screw up. People will be damn lucky to get an iMac before next year.
post #119 of 165

GPU benchmarks of various iMac configurations mixed with other GPU

 

I am upgrading from my late 2009 27" iMac with a radeon 4850 GPU.  So even the GT 650m beats my old GPU now.

 

 

1000

post #120 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

It cycles. If you didn't already know that they don't care about their computers, is there really anything that can be done to help you now? Been FIVE YEARS.

 

1000

It doesn't cycle when the iPhone or iPad get launched... 

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Current Mac Hardware
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Current Mac Hardware › Review roundup: New iMac display and redesigned chassis shine, audio a step back