Some new iMacs marked as being 'Assembled in USA' - Page 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogifan 

I'm an American and I could care less where my electronics or other gadgets are assembled.

You COULD care less, could you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Byars 

I would really like to be able to choose built in America. I wouldn't mind slight extended order times even. We all know if Apple asked for it, Foxconn would return to the US or they could use one of the many US contract manufactures that are here. Most started here and are already here in California and other states. Yes Apple used to build in the US and even in Colorado. Great machines but the wrong CPU (PowerPC was a mistake never admitted as it didn't ever have market share. x86 and ARM both are clearly ISA's - Industry Standard Architectures) back then but this is now. The tool & Die comment about why not US? was the worst non truth - we pioneered high end tool and die and build spacecraft, telescopes and missiles that no other country can match. A iMac is not and issue nor are iphones - that's just plain silly. Great to see final being done here. It should all come back on shore asap.
And Apple should more of it's profits back to the US too. Step up to the plate Apple...
But YES I would vote for Apple Mac's with $$$.

I agree. It's my only complaint against Apple. I understand the rational of having overseas plant manufacturing Apple products. It's not just cheaper labor but also less Gov. regulations. But if Honda, BMW, Mercedes and Toyota can build quality cars with American workers, Apple should do also. Somehow, the idea of "for the good of the shareholders" as be elevated so high that it trumps all other moral considerations. Shipping 50,000 factories overseas was wrong and hurt this country immensely. Not to say unions and american workers are blameless. A window washer making $11/hr. is not going to pay an autoworker in Detroit $40/hr to build them a substandard car. 

I hope this is a trend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by balsy2001 

You would wait longer, I would actually pay more.  Not huge amounts, but I would be in for a a few percent.

Agreed. There has to be some cost benefit in not flying them 6,000 miles in 747's! :)

Never mind, that it's good for the environment, too.

Originally Posted by herbapou 
ship times are slipping,  7 to 10 days now

When the time decreases, that's not called 'slipping'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CGJ 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogifan 

I'm an American and I could care less where my electronics or other gadgets are assembled.

You COULD care less, could you?

• http://www.dailywritingtips.com/could-care-less-versus-couldnt-care-less/

Originally Posted by Rogifan 
how is going from 1-3 days to 7-10 days decreasing?

I saw 2-3 weeks just a few days ago. I assumed it was going down.

Who ever thinks it would really cost that much more to manufacture here (USA) can't do math. 

Lets just say, that in China, a worker is making $5/hr and it takes a ridiculous time of 10 hours to assemble one iMac.

Now bring that same assembly to the US and pay a worker $15/hr. How much more does it cost? Answer: $100 more. 

Being that it's an Apple computer in the first place (premium product), a hundred dollars is not a big deal. Even at $20/hr, it's only an increase of $150 per machine. 

Honest answer YES i would work there. Want to work there? I don't want to work anywhere. :P

Something to consider: Some of us work jobs that already suck, why not get paid more. Some of us don't have any jobs at all. Some of us understand you have to start somewhere to move up. 

Not every job is for everyone, but I am highly confident that there are people out there that are willing to do the job. 

I find it odd that Apple wouldn't be shouting this from the rooftops.  In their typical modest style, they could say that they are the first manufacturer to ever assemble a computer in the US.  

Originally Posted by Conrail 
I find it odd that Apple wouldn't be shouting this from the rooftops.  In their typical modest style, they could say that they are the first manufacturer to ever assemble a computer in the US.  

They did all their assembly in the US back in the '70s and early '80s. I seriously doubt that even THAT makes them "first".

Quote:

Originally Posted by jragosta 


That ignores all the other costs of assembling in the US.
- Legal expenses
- Taxes
- Overheads
- Creating the infrastructure to allow them to manage high volume production
- Productivity
Simply looking at labor rates is pointless.

And pension, medical insurance, and ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by BNZ V3 

Who ever thinks it would really cost that much more to manufacture here (USA) can't do math. 

 

Lets just say, that in China, a worker is making $5/hr and it takes a ridiculous time of 10 hours to assemble one iMac.

 

Now bring that same assembly to the US and pay a worker $15/hr. How much more does it cost? Answer: $100 more. 

 

Being that it's an Apple computer in the first place (premium product), a hundred dollars is not a big deal. Even at $20/hr, it's only an increase of $150 per machine. 

If COGS goes up by $150, price doesn't just go up by that amount. Assuming >40% gross margin, the sticker price will be at least $250 more.

Still feeling qualified to mock other people's math?

Originally Posted by AlexN 
Fantastic. So now we are going to get a wave of US-based pest-callers. Sneaky .

Hope they put on their best Marathi accent.

Last spring I bought a Mac Pro with 3 1GB DIMMs, and promptly upgraded it to 3 8GB DIMMs.  It was a "substantial transformation"!

Sorry, for me to believe Apple is doing major assembly in the US will take more than a product sticker.  Let's see some photos of the assembly operation before jumping to conclusions.  

Originally Posted by Junkyard Dawg 
Sorry, for me to believe Apple is doing major assembly in the US will take more than a product sticker.

Yeah, they're sure lying about that¡

Seriously?!

Also not a sticker. Engraved on the machine.

IT'S CARVED INTO THE MACHINE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogifan 

I'm an American and I could care less where my electronics or other gadgets are assembled.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CGJ 

You COULD care less, could you?

Yes, he does care where his electronics are assembled...

Originally Posted by WardC 
…fundamentally GOOD for the company, not being an outsourcing…

You act as though these are different.

1. Not slaves

2. Enjoy the work they do, want more than they're legally allowed to have

3. Every company in the industry does this. Can't take away an element that doesn't exist anywhere.

Tallest Skil, Did you read about the numerous suicides at the Foxconn Plants because of the worker conditions? There are a number that don't like what they do, they only do it because it is the only way they can earn money to bring back to their families when they leave and take the train ride home twice a year. They are bunked there in dormitories at the facilities. They don't live in their homes with their families (like American workers do).

THAT is as slave-labor as you can get. They can't leave the faclities -- the workers are practically quarantined at the facilities during the duration of their work contract, and allowed to return home only twice a year. Most of them work in various distant parts of China and travel sometimes 1000 miles or more to work at Foxconn. They are paid extremely low wages and sometimes forced to work more than 16 hours a day, 7 days a week.

THAT is as close to slave labor as I can understand, apart from being in a mililary labor camp.

It's not good --- and it really sickens me to believe Apple has stooped to this level simply to reduce their own costs so they can maximize profits. Money and profit has become the sole bottom line for Apple these days, and outsourcing has become their golden solution to do this. From their eyes, the consumer could care less as long as the product is good, right? But it does matter -- it's a fundamental issue and many people can't understand this...it's hard to explain what it means to take pride in a company, and that is something I have been lacking with Apple for a number of years now. I would love to have pride in Apple again, and the Chinese manufacturing shift was a major part of what made me start to see the greedy, dark side of where's Apple was heading.

Originally Posted by WardC 
post

Wow. Wow. 

Everything in here is a lie.

Oh, wait, no, they ARE Chinese and they are working at Foxconn. Everything else is a lie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil 

 

You act as though these are different.

 

1. Not slaves

2. Enjoy the work they do, want more than they're legally allowed to have

3. Every company in the industry does this. Can't take away an element that doesn't exist anywhere.

Enjoy the work they do?  Didn't know you spoke for the hundreds of thousands of Chinese workers there.  Are you in good with Brazilians too? How do they like it?  Tell me more! ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jragosta 


Fallacy.
You've apparently never seen the inside of a modern Chinese factory. The quality control is very good.
And given that American work practices create a lot more stops and starts than Chinese work practices, it's conceivable that the quality control would even drop after bringing production to the US.
So what's your evidence that the US has better quality control?

I think QC depends on the product. For electronics, the Chinese do a very good job as do Americans. I wouldn't really put one over the other.  As for your idea that QC might be superior in China it should be noted that many of their processes have American origins (TQM, Six Sigma, etc.)

Originally Posted by oneaburns 
Enjoy the work they do?  Didn't know you spoke for the hundreds of thousands of Chinese workers there.  Are you in good with Brazilians too? How do they like it?  Tell me more! ;)

Reading their testimonies would show a lot more than the mocking does.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil 

 

Reading their testimonies would show a lot more than the mocking does.

Testimonies from repressed workers living in a society lacking basic freedoms like freedom of the press?  Sorry, but those testimonies don't pass the smell test.

"The beatings will continue until morale improves!"

Originally Posted by oneaburns 
Testimonies from repressed workers living in a society lacking basic freedoms like freedom of the press?  Sorry, but those testimonies don't pass the smell test.

Believe what you choose.

Originally Posted by PhilBoogie 
Looks like you've seen the Foxxcon story by Mikey Daisey, which turned out to be way overblown.

"…outright lies, made for the sole purpose of slandering Apple and arresting their success."

I think that fits better.

My reasons for the betterment of Apple by a shift to USA production are real and based on facts about the conditions in China, not Daisey's overblown factoids he added to HIS story.

Chinese working conditions are different and more strenuous, more demanding, and take place in in a closeted, controlled working environment (worker camps)....something a USA worker factory would not have or allow. Aside from the large wage differences, it is this overbearing de-humanization of the individual that really impacts my own thoughts and feelings about the situation, and makes me upset at Apple for allowing these kinds of Chinese labor factories to even be called on to assemble their products, in the name of ultra-cheap labor and maximizing their profits.

That's what gets me about the whole thing.

If the Chinese workers were allowed to live in their own housing, make decent salaries to support their own living, and be given NORMAL shift lengths of 8-10 hours and not worked for extensive week to month periods on lengthy shifts...and overall be given the freedoms and amenities that US workers have...

THEN I probably wouldn't have AS much of an issue with the Chinese worker situation.

But, this...this kind of downplayed game-shift by Apple in the 2000s to Chinese factory labor...it's as close to modern day slave labor as I can understand.

Originally Posted by WardC 

Chinese working conditions are different and more strenuous, more demanding, and take place in in a closeted, controlled working environment (worker camps)....something a USA worker factory would not have or allow.

China ≠ USA. Communism ≠ republic.

China ≠ USA. Communism ≠ republic.

… They want to work longer to make more money.

Upset at the only company in the industry that actively improves said conditions instead of responding to forced improvements…

China ≠ USA. Communism ≠ republic.

CHINA ≠ USA. COMMUNISM ≠ REPUBLIC.

CHINA ≠ USA. COMMUNISM ≠ REPUBLIC.

So petition to annex China. I'm all for US expansion myself. Honestly, I am. Not China, though, but different strokes.

Or boycott Apple. Enjoy buying those American-made computers. All none of them.

See, modern-day slave labor is called slave labor. You… don't get paid, you work where, when, and how you're told, and you die if you don't. Understand?

It exists, a~nd it's not Foxconn.