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Some new iMacs marked as being 'Assembled in USA' - Page 2

post #41 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I'm an American and I could care less where my electronics or other gadgets are assembled.

You COULD care less, could you?

post #42 of 78
WOW, every computer that I own, was purchased and made myself using a screwdriver. I used components purchased locally in Canada, but it was still assembled in china!!!

LOL
Edited by haar - 12/3/12 at 7:05am
post #43 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Byars View Post

I would really like to be able to choose built in America. I wouldn't mind slight extended order times even. We all know if Apple asked for it, Foxconn would return to the US or they could use one of the many US contract manufactures that are here. Most started here and are already here in California and other states. Yes Apple used to build in the US and even in Colorado. Great machines but the wrong CPU (PowerPC was a mistake never admitted as it didn't ever have market share. x86 and ARM both are clearly ISA's - Industry Standard Architectures) back then but this is now. The tool & Die comment about why not US? was the worst non truth - we pioneered high end tool and die and build spacecraft, telescopes and missiles that no other country can match. A iMac is not and issue nor are iphones - that's just plain silly. Great to see final being done here. It should all come back on shore asap.
And Apple should more of it's profits back to the US too. Step up to the plate Apple...
But YES I would vote for Apple Mac's with $$$.

I agree. It's my only complaint against Apple. I understand the rational of having overseas plant manufacturing Apple products. It's not just cheaper labor but also less Gov. regulations. But if Honda, BMW, Mercedes and Toyota can build quality cars with American workers, Apple should do also. Somehow, the idea of "for the good of the shareholders" as be elevated so high that it trumps all other moral considerations. Shipping 50,000 factories overseas was wrong and hurt this country immensely. Not to say unions and american workers are blameless. A window washer making $11/hr. is not going to pay an autoworker in Detroit $40/hr to build them a substandard car. 

 

I hope this is a trend.

post #44 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by balsy2001 View Post


You would wait longer, I would actually pay more.  Not huge amounts, but I would be in for a a few percent.

 

Agreed. There has to be some cost benefit in not flying them 6,000 miles in 747's! :)

 

Never mind, that it's good for the environment, too.


Edited by christopher126 - 12/3/12 at 7:42am
post #45 of 78
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post
ship times are slipping,  7 to 10 days now

 

When the time decreases, that's not called 'slipping'.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #46 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I'm an American and I could care less where my electronics or other gadgets are assembled. Where in the USA would you get the level of workforce needed to crank out all the iPhones a s iPads Apple sells? I suppose they could bring back manufacturing of iMacs and MacPros but it seems to me that would be more symbolic than good business. Besides people seem to forget the "Designed in California" part. The majority of Apple's designers and engineers, plus all product, marketing, operations support (higher paying jobs) work in the USA. I've seen the videos iPhone and iPads being assembled by hans at Foxconn. How many Amerians would do that kind of work? Especially when these days they'd probably make more getting unemployment.

Wow. I agree. With. Every. Single. Sentence. You. Wrote. Here. Props to you sir.
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post #47 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by CGJ View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I'm an American and I could care less where my electronics or other gadgets are assembled.
You COULD care less, could you?

That is indeed a common mistake: it should read: I could not care less.
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post #48 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by CGJ View Post

You COULD care less, could you?
Okay grammar police. I couldn't care less 1rolleyes.gif
post #49 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

When the time decreases, that's not called 'slipping'.
how is going from 1-3 days to 7-10 days decreasing? 1hmm.gif
post #50 of 78
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
how is going from 1-3 days to 7-10 days decreasing? 1hmm.gif

 

I saw 2-3 weeks just a few days ago. I assumed it was going down.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #51 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by BNZ V3 View Post

Who ever thinks it would really cost that much more to manufacture here (USA) can't do math. 

Lets just say, that in China, a worker is making $5/hr and it takes a ridiculous time of 10 hours to assemble one iMac.

Now bring that same assembly to the US and pay a worker $15/hr. How much more does it cost? Answer: $100 more. 

Being that it's an Apple computer in the first place (premium product), a hundred dollars is not a big deal. Even at $20/hr, it's only an increase of $150 per machine. 

But but but, the hands of those Chinese workers are so small they are able to make these small computers for us. If they are going to assemble it in the States they'll need 'selective' workers¡

Seriously, will Americans apply for these jobs? Looking at video's from these assembly lines I wouldn't want to work there. Would you, or do you know anyone who would?
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post #52 of 78

I find it odd that Apple wouldn't be shouting this from the rooftops.  In their typical modest style, they could say that they are the first manufacturer to ever assemble a computer in the US.  

post #53 of 78
Originally Posted by Conrail View Post
I find it odd that Apple wouldn't be shouting this from the rooftops.  In their typical modest style, they could say that they are the first manufacturer to ever assemble a computer in the US.  

 

They did all their assembly in the US back in the '70s and early '80s. I seriously doubt that even THAT makes them "first".

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #54 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by BNZ V3 View Post

Who ever thinks it would really cost that much more to manufacture here (USA) can't do math. 

Lets just say, that in China, a worker is making $5/hr and it takes a ridiculous time of 10 hours to assemble one iMac.

Now bring that same assembly to the US and pay a worker $15/hr. How much more does it cost? Answer: $100 more. 

Being that it's an Apple computer in the first place (premium product), a hundred dollars is not a big deal. Even at $20/hr, it's only an increase of $150 per machine. 

That ignores all the other costs of assembling in the US.

- Legal expenses
- Taxes
- Overheads
- Creating the infrastructure to allow them to manage high volume production
- Productivity

Simply looking at labor rates is pointless.
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post #55 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


That ignores all the other costs of assembling in the US.
- Legal expenses
- Taxes
- Overheads
- Creating the infrastructure to allow them to manage high volume production
- Productivity
Simply looking at labor rates is pointless.


And pension, medical insurance, and ...

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BNZ V3 View Post

Who ever thinks it would really cost that much more to manufacture here (USA) can't do math. 

 

Lets just say, that in China, a worker is making $5/hr and it takes a ridiculous time of 10 hours to assemble one iMac.

 

Now bring that same assembly to the US and pay a worker $15/hr. How much more does it cost? Answer: $100 more. 

 

Being that it's an Apple computer in the first place (premium product), a hundred dollars is not a big deal. Even at $20/hr, it's only an increase of $150 per machine. 

 

If COGS goes up by $150, price doesn't just go up by that amount. Assuming >40% gross margin, the sticker price will be at least $250 more.

 

Still feeling qualified to mock other people's math?

post #56 of 78
For this end user, if I buy a Mazda or a Honda a huge selling point is often "this model had the engine assembled in Japan." I wonder how these assembled in US iMacs will turn out, coveted or hated?
post #57 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dickprinter View Post

Your hypothetical scenario is unrealistic. I don't believe there would be a difference of $500 in the cost of manufacture between the two countries.

That depends on what one means by made. If you mean assembled then I'd agree that $500 is very high, but if you mean that all components are made in the US from components or source materials all sourced in the US -and- assembled in the US then I think it would likely cost thousands more. And that's not even considering where the machines were made that will be used to assemble the Macs. Finally, it doesn't account for any licensing for patents that are used in every Mac.

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post #58 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmvsm View Post

Aegis, a Mumbai based call center company is building a Dallas metroplex and will add 1K new jobs as part of a US deal it made to hire workers.

Fantastic. So now we are going to get a wave of US-based pest-callers. Sneaky 1rolleyes.gif.
post #59 of 78
It's about damn time. While I realize not everything can be made in America, I am so sick of seeing nearly everything from clothes to toys to tools being made or assembled in China.

America has almost an 8% unemployment rate and while we can debate why that is, let's get a strong manufacturing base back here at home.

Made in the USA used to mean something and let's get it back to meaning something.

Sorry to be harsh but for those that don't care about where your stuff comes from, it is your kind that is dragging down this country and continues to do so. (this includes CEOs who outsource to increase profit margins)

Good for Apple on this and at least making a start.
post #60 of 78
Originally Posted by AlexN View Post
Fantastic. So now we are going to get a wave of US-based pest-callers. Sneaky 1rolleyes.gif.

 

Hope they put on their best Marathi accent.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #61 of 78

Last spring I bought a Mac Pro with 3 1GB DIMMs, and promptly upgraded it to 3 8GB DIMMs.  It was a "substantial transformation"!

 

Sorry, for me to believe Apple is doing major assembly in the US will take more than a product sticker.  Let's see some photos of the assembly operation before jumping to conclusions.  

post #62 of 78
Originally Posted by Junkyard Dawg View Post
Sorry, for me to believe Apple is doing major assembly in the US will take more than a product sticker.

 

Yeah, they're sure lying about that¡

 

Seriously?!

 

Also not a sticker. Engraved on the machine.


…before jumping to conclusions.  

 

IT'S CARVED INTO THE MACHINE.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #63 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I'm an American and I could care less where my electronics or other gadgets are assembled.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CGJ View Post

You COULD care less, could you?

 

Yes, he does care where his electronics are assembled...

post #64 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkyard Dawg View Post

Last spring I bought a Mac Pro with 3 1GB DIMMs, and promptly upgraded it to 3 8GB DIMMs.  It was a "substantial transformation"!

Sorry, for me to believe Apple is doing major assembly in the US will take more than a product sticker.  Let's see some photos of the assembly operation before jumping to conclusions.  

If Apple makes half of their products in the US or even 1/4, it is a start and will help get things moving in this stagnant economy.
post #65 of 78
I would even be willing to pay $100 - $200 extra to Apple to have a computer that is built in the USA -- I take pride in having an American made Mac, that's the way it was years ago when the company was formed...Apple was by America, for America, and made in America by Americans - not a Chinese labor assembly-line.

I give praise to Apple for these changes and hope Apple keeps making in-roads to getting back to what is fundamentally GOOD for the company, not being an outsourcing money monster. I am not kidding about paying the extra price for an American made product, I think Apple products are top-quality hardware, but also think an element is taken away by knowing Chinese laborers in a worker camp/factory were paid $2/day to slave over like robots building it. I don't take pride in that.

American made - keep it coming, Apple!!
post #66 of 78
Originally Posted by WardC View Post
…fundamentally GOOD for the company, not being an outsourcing…

 

You act as though these are different.


…also think an element is taken away by knowing Chinese laborers in a worker camp/factory were paid $2/day to slave over like robots building it.

 

1. Not slaves

2. Enjoy the work they do, want more than they're legally allowed to have

3. Every company in the industry does this. Can't take away an element that doesn't exist anywhere.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #67 of 78

Tallest Skil, Did you read about the numerous suicides at the Foxconn Plants because of the worker conditions? There are a number that don't like what they do, they only do it because it is the only way they can earn money to bring back to their families when they leave and take the train ride home twice a year. They are bunked there in dormitories at the facilities. They don't live in their homes with their families (like American workers do).

 

THAT is as slave-labor as you can get. They can't leave the faclities -- the workers are practically quarantined at the facilities during the duration of their work contract, and allowed to return home only twice a year. Most of them work in various distant parts of China and travel sometimes 1000 miles or more to work at Foxconn. They are paid extremely low wages and sometimes forced to work more than 16 hours a day, 7 days a week.

 

THAT is as close to slave labor as I can understand, apart from being in a mililary labor camp.

 

It's not good --- and it really sickens me to believe Apple has stooped to this level simply to reduce their own costs so they can maximize profits. Money and profit has become the sole bottom line for Apple these days, and outsourcing has become their golden solution to do this. From their eyes, the consumer could care less as long as the product is good, right? But it does matter -- it's a fundamental issue and many people can't understand this...it's hard to explain what it means to take pride in a company, and that is something I have been lacking with Apple for a number of years now. I would love to have pride in Apple again, and the Chinese manufacturing shift was a major part of what made me start to see the greedy, dark side of where's Apple was heading.

post #68 of 78
Originally Posted by WardC View Post
post

 

Wow. Wow. 1oyvey.gif

 

Everything in here is a lie.

 

Oh, wait, no, they ARE Chinese and they are working at Foxconn. Everything else is a lie.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #69 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

You act as though these are different.

 

1. Not slaves

2. Enjoy the work they do, want more than they're legally allowed to have

3. Every company in the industry does this. Can't take away an element that doesn't exist anywhere.

 

Enjoy the work they do?  Didn't know you spoke for the hundreds of thousands of Chinese workers there.  Are you in good with Brazilians too? How do they like it?  Tell me more! ;)

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post #70 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Fallacy.
You've apparently never seen the inside of a modern Chinese factory. The quality control is very good.
And given that American work practices create a lot more stops and starts than Chinese work practices, it's conceivable that the quality control would even drop after bringing production to the US.
So what's your evidence that the US has better quality control?

 

I think QC depends on the product. For electronics, the Chinese do a very good job as do Americans. I wouldn't really put one over the other.  As for your idea that QC might be superior in China it should be noted that many of their processes have American origins (TQM, Six Sigma, etc.)

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post #71 of 78
Originally Posted by oneaburns View Post
Enjoy the work they do?  Didn't know you spoke for the hundreds of thousands of Chinese workers there.  Are you in good with Brazilians too? How do they like it?  Tell me more! ;)

 

Reading their testimonies would show a lot more than the mocking does.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #72 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Reading their testimonies would show a lot more than the mocking does.

 

Testimonies from repressed workers living in a society lacking basic freedoms like freedom of the press?  Sorry, but those testimonies don't pass the smell test.

 

"The beatings will continue until morale improves!"

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post #73 of 78
Originally Posted by oneaburns View Post
Testimonies from repressed workers living in a society lacking basic freedoms like freedom of the press?  Sorry, but those testimonies don't pass the smell test.

Believe what you choose.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #74 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by WardC View Post

Tallest Skil, Did you read about the numerous suicides at the Foxconn Plants because of the worker conditions? There are a number that don't like what they do, they only do it because it is the only way they can earn money to bring back to their families when they leave and take the train ride home twice a year. They are bunked there in dormitories at the facilities. They don't live in their homes with their families (like American workers do).

THAT is as slave-labor as you can get. They can't leave the faclities -- the workers are practically quarantined at the facilities during the duration of their work contract, and allowed to return home only twice a year. Most of them work in various distant parts of China and travel sometimes 1000 miles or more to work at Foxconn. They are paid extremely low wages and sometimes forced to work more than 16 hours a day, 7 days a week.

THAT is as close to slave labor as I can understand, apart from being in a mililary labor camp.

It's not good --- and it really sickens me to believe Apple has stooped to this level simply to reduce their own costs so they can maximize profits. Money and profit has become the sole bottom line for Apple these days, and outsourcing has become their golden solution to do this. From their eyes, the consumer could care less as long as the product is good, right? But it does matter -- it's a fundamental issue and many people can't understand this...it's hard to explain what it means to take pride in a company, and that is something I have been lacking with Apple for a number of years now. I would love to have pride in Apple again, and the Chinese manufacturing shift was a major part of what made me start to see the greedy, dark side of where's Apple was heading.

Looks like you've seen the Foxxcon story by Mikey Daisey, which turned out to be way overblown. Check the retraction
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post #75 of 78
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post
Looks like you've seen the Foxxcon story by Mikey Daisey, which turned out to be way overblown.

 

"…outright lies, made for the sole purpose of slandering Apple and arresting their success."

 

I think that fits better.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #76 of 78

My reasons for the betterment of Apple by a shift to USA production are real and based on facts about the conditions in China, not Daisey's overblown factoids he added to HIS story.

 

Chinese working conditions are different and more strenuous, more demanding, and take place in in a closeted, controlled working environment (worker camps)....something a USA worker factory would not have or allow. Aside from the large wage differences, it is this overbearing de-humanization of the individual that really impacts my own thoughts and feelings about the situation, and makes me upset at Apple for allowing these kinds of Chinese labor factories to even be called on to assemble their products, in the name of ultra-cheap labor and maximizing their profits.

 

That's what gets me about the whole thing.

 

If the Chinese workers were allowed to live in their own housing, make decent salaries to support their own living, and be given NORMAL shift lengths of 8-10 hours and not worked for extensive week to month periods on lengthy shifts...and overall be given the freedoms and amenities that US workers have...

 

THEN I probably wouldn't have AS much of an issue with the Chinese worker situation.

 

But, this...this kind of downplayed game-shift by Apple in the 2000s to Chinese factory labor...it's as close to modern day slave labor as I can understand.

post #77 of 78
Originally Posted by WardC View Post

Chinese working conditions are different and more strenuous, more demanding, and take place in in a closeted, controlled working environment (worker camps)....something a USA worker factory would not have or allow.

 

China ≠ USA. Communism ≠ republic.

 

Aside from the large wage differences…

 

China ≠ USA. Communism ≠ republic.

 

…overbearing de-humanization…

 

… They want to work longer to make more money.

 

…upset at Apple for allowing…

 

Upset at the only company in the industry that actively improves said conditions instead of responding to forced improvements…

 

…make decent salaries to support their own living…

 

China ≠ USA. Communism ≠ republic.

 

…NORMAL shift lengths…

 

CHINA ≠ USA. COMMUNISM ≠ REPUBLIC.

 

…overall be given the freedoms and amenities that US workers have…

 

CHINA ≠ USA. COMMUNISM ≠ REPUBLIC.

 

THEN I probably wouldn't have AS much of an issue with the Chinese worker situation.

 

So petition to annex China. I'm all for US expansion myself. Honestly, I am. Not China, though, but different strokes.

 

Or boycott Apple. Enjoy buying those American-made computers. All none of them.


...it's as close to modern day slave labor as I can understand.

 

See, modern-day slave labor is called slave labor. You… don't get paid, you work where, when, and how you're told, and you die if you don't. Understand?

 

It exists, a~nd it's not Foxconn.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #78 of 78
Any bets on WHERE they'll be made. I just can't imagine it being the PRK with their oppressive taxation which would have to be absorbed by Apple or passed on to us.
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