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Black Friday sales of Windows notebooks down 10%, Apple's MacBooks stay flat

post #1 of 53
Thread Starter 
Retail sales of Apple notebooks on Black Friday were flat year over year as overall consumer electronics sales declined nearly 6 percent, while sales of Windows-based notebooks plummeted 10 percent despite the launch of Windows 8.

The NPD Group announced on Tuesday that U.S. consumer electronics retail sales for Black Friday declined 5.6 percent, which was a steeper than anticipated drop. NPD's tracking of consumer electronics excludes Apple's iPad, as well as Kindle products, Microsoft Surface, mobile phones and video games.

Retail sales data from Nov. 18 through 24 found that sales of Windows-based notebooks were down 10 percent. Sales of Apple notebooks, meanwhile, were flat with 2011.

The decline in Windows notebook sales came despite the fact that Microsoft recently launched its new Windows 8 platform. Devices running Windows 8 represented 89 percent of notebook sales with an average selling price of $368, while touchscreens accounted for 3 percent of sales with an average selling price of $668.

Most of Apple's MacBook lineup was refreshed this summer, but the company did launch its 13-inch MacBook Pro with Retina display in October. That machine carries a $500 premium over the legacy non-Retina 13-inch MacBook Pro, which Apple continues to offer.

MacBook Pro


Though overall notebook sales were down 10 percent year over year for the 2012 Black Friday shopping holiday, revenue was only down 5 percent. That's because the average selling price of notebooks increased from $437 in 2011 to $460 in 2012.

Beyond notebook computers, sales of Android-based tablets were up 177 percent year over year. Revenue was up about half as much, as the average selling price of Android tablets plummeted from $219 to $151.

Sales of flat panel TVs were also up slightly, earning a 4 percent increase from 2011. But 2012 revenue on flat panel TVs for Black Friday was down 6 percent, as the average selling price dropped from $367 a year ago to $333 this year.

MP3 players saw a steep drop this year, as sales fell 24 percent. And Black Friday sales of point-and-shoot cameras plummeted 36 percent this year as consumers rely largely on other devices, like their smartphone, for photo taking.

"This slow start is merely a continuation of the challenges seen in the consumer electronics business throughout 2012," said Stephen Baker, vice president of industry analysis at NPD. "In an unbalanced market, where just a few categories deliver significant dollars, and even fewer offer any growth, the ability to deliver positive results will remain difficult for companies exposed to the entire consumer electronics marketplace."
post #2 of 53
Why don't they take into account tablets? It is known well that tablets are cannibalizing laptop/desktop sales rapidly. Apple's model is to disrupt others as well as its existing product lines.

See here and read Meeker's slide deck


http://venturebeat.com/2012/12/03/mary-meeker-releases-stunning-data-on-the-state-of-the-internet/
post #3 of 53
We'll see what happens in the full quarter. At first blush, it seems like Android manufacturers are buying market share by going further and further downmarket (those $159 Kindle Fires and $199 Nexus 7s must be fairly popular), while Ultrabooks seem to be struggling to catch on. My guess is the rMBP (13" and 15") is a bit too niche still to make much of a dent in MacBook sales, while the rest of the lineup is solidly mid-cycle. iPhone drives most of Apple's stock price, so it's a good sign that supply seems to be catching up. As a shareholder, I'd like to see Apple surprise a bit and sell 50 million this quarter (most analysts are expecting 46-48 million). It will also be interesting to see how the iPad sells now that the mini is in the lineup, and what that does to margins. Apple likely won't break out sales by model, but the margin will give analysts some data to work with.
post #4 of 53

Just bought my Mrs a 13" MacBook Pro was holding out with faint hope that Apple would release a 13" MacBook, any 13" MacBook that did not come with just the crud Intel only graphics. Had it not been for the integrated graphics Apple would have easily upsold me to the retina model.

iPad, Macbook Pro, iPhone, heck I even have iLife! :-)
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iPad, Macbook Pro, iPhone, heck I even have iLife! :-)
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post #5 of 53
I think Ultrabooks have been a failure. On the PC side people are accustomed to cheap laptops that they can get for $500 or whatever. That's not an Ultrabook.
post #6 of 53

"while sales of Windows-based notebooks plummeted 10 percent because of the launch of Windows 8."

 

Just thought I'd fix the article.
 

Hmmmmmm...
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Hmmmmmm...
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post #7 of 53

MacBook sales are flat and that means Apple is doomed like a shark that can't survive unless swimming forward.  I sense another Apple downgrade coming as it loses market share to Samsung and Android.  Wall Street's attitude is that if you're not number one in market share, you're just another failing company.  We well know that Apple doesn't have what it takes to be number one in market share in a world of dirt-cheap Android smartphones and tablets.  Only market leaders are given high P/Es and Apple's P/E is that of a third-string tech company.  Wall Street really doesn't like to count tablets because it might indicate that Apple could be worth something as a company.  The whole computer industry game is to devalue Apple as much as possible by scaring investors away.  The Android platform could be considered one of the worst financial models around, but Wall Street will give it credence because of those high market share numbers.  When millions of Android devices are activated daily it must be a good thing for somebody, at least in theory.

post #8 of 53
Microsoft strategy will leave PC makers with no other choice than selling Linux based machines ... How brilliant, Mr Ballmer ...
post #9 of 53

"Revenue was up about half as much, as the average selling price of Android tablets plummeted from $219 to $151." 

 

I am not sure what tablets sold to make that average, so does that mean the bulk of the android tablets are kindle fires, Nook and Kobo?  That would mean the Nexus tablets are not doing well at all.

post #10 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvigod View Post

Why don't they take into account tablets? It is known well that tablets are cannibalizing laptop/desktop sales rapidly. Apple's model is to disrupt others as well as its existing product lines.
See here and read Meeker's slide deck
http://venturebeat.com/2012/12/03/mary-meeker-releases-stunning-data-on-the-state-of-the-internet/

 

What is the purpose of lumping it together? The more atomicity in the data, the better. Just ignore the headlines or simpleton conclusions.

post #11 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by umrk_lab View Post

Microsoft strategy will leave PC makers with no other choice than selling Linux based machines ... How brilliant, Mr Ballmer ...

Are you kidding? Nothing would push Windows users to buy a Mac faster than Microsoft OEMs abandoning Windows.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #12 of 53

The fact that there is no mention of iPad or iPhone numbers, I find rather concerning.

post #13 of 53
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
The fact that there is no mention of iPad or iPhone numbers, I find rather concerning.

 

In an article about… traditional computers…

 

"Oh, no! From this manifest of fishing off the Grand Banks, I can't see how many toasters were sold by LG! They must not have sold very well…"

post #14 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


Are you kidding? Nothing would push Windows users to buy a Mac faster than Microsoft OEMs abandoning Windows.

 

 

This does not contradict what I pointed out : OEM will gradually abandon Windows, but at the same time Windows users will also look at alternatives, the Mac being one of them, but not the only one (especially for low end notebooks, where saving the cost of Microsoft royalty can be a way to cut costs).

post #15 of 53

Black Friday sales of Windows notebooks down 10%

Microsoft is doomed. 1wink.gif

 

post #16 of 53
I don't know why these numbers matter right now ... This is THE Christmas season of the tablet. They have reached a point in their short three season life where they are a well-understood, must have item. The need for PCs aren't going away, but as far as Christmas 2012 is concerned, everybody wants to get a tablet (which also does most of the things they would need a new PC for anyway). It's pretty clear, even folks who may need to upgrade a PC are likely putting that purchase off until later, opting instead for the more "magical" gift of a tablet. I mean unless you really want a PC to do a specific (and fun) task you can't do any other way, the PC has become synonymous with a microwave oven, and while people need them, practical utilitarian items just don't make the best gifts. Families want 50" flat screen TVs, Xboxes, tablets and phones for Christmas -- NOT work tools.

The PC reigns supreme for back to school season when kids have to buy or upgrade them. So let's worry about the lack of sales then.
post #17 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

MacBook sales are flat and that means Apple is doomed like a shark that can't survive unless swimming forward.  I sense another Apple downgrade coming as it loses market share to Samsung and Android.  Wall Street's attitude is that if you're not number one in market share, you're just another failing company.  We well know that Apple doesn't have what it takes to be number one in market share in a world of dirt-cheap Android smartphones and tablets.  Only market leaders are given high P/Es and Apple's P/E is that of a third-string tech company.  Wall Street really doesn't like to count tablets because it might indicate that Apple could be worth something as a company.  The whole computer industry game is to devalue Apple as much as possible by scaring investors away.  The Android platform could be considered one of the worst financial models around, but Wall Street will give it credence because of those high market share numbers.  When millions of Android devices are activated daily it must be a good thing for somebody, at least in theory.

 

otoh, hand, flat sales when the tide is sinking for eveyone else means that iPad tablet sales are impacting PC sales more than Mac sales.  Apple has never been number 1 in phones, or PCs, and Wall Street.   I'm arguing halo effect (the iPad sold last year is now buying a new iPad and in some cases a MacBook Pro).

 

And Apple's Long Game has never been about hardware sales... it's about eyeballs and retention (walled garden).   That's why Apple has such a poor valuation, in that Wall Street doesn't give it the P/E Multiple on the 435Million credit cards it has on file, as much as it gives Amazon  or  Google (for just eyeballs, much fewer Credit Cards), or FaceBook, or Linked In.     The shark is still swimming, just moving into fresh water (Content.).  

 

Understanding that the long game is the 'Store' is the key.   Google and Samsung are two angles of the triangle (navigation and discount HW) Apple is trying to get away from... Content is their game and getting 30% of everything from Movies, to concert tickets, classroom material, etc.  

 

I still think Apple should take their money and become an offshore bank, and issue their own credit card, purely for reducing the transaction charges. 

post #18 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

MacBook sales are flat and that means Apple is doomed like a shark that can't survive unless swimming forward. 

Or it means that the folks already got their new computer earlier in the year. Or that they are waiting for the kiddo to graduate in the spring and be able to get the student discount. Or they got an iMac instead. Etc.

There are tons of possible factors as to why sales are 'flat'. But flat is still better than down.

And in the end yes perhaps many of those folks got an iPad. But it is still money going to Apple and not someone else. So when the dollars come out we could find that Apple is doing fine. Perhaps not the analysts pulled from an orifice and typically at least double of a 'reasonable' estimate but still way ahead of the pack

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

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post #19 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post

The fact that there is no mention of iPad or iPhone numbers, I find rather concerning.

That would be because the article was about sales of notebook style computers. Even Apple doesn't call the iPhone and iPad 'computers' in the traditional sense so they themselves would probably rather have them counted separately

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

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post #20 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunspot42 View Post

Black Friday sales of Windows notebooks down.

More interesting is that Apple stayed flat with barely any discounts but many Windows machines were knocked way down and sales were less.

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

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post #21 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

In an article about… traditional computers…

 

"Oh, no! From this manifest of fishing off the Grand Banks, I can't see how many toasters were sold by LG! They must not have sold very well…"


Isn't it funny though that they include Android tablets in the report... but specifically exclude iPad, Kindle and MS Surface.

 

WTF!??

Hmmmmmm...
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Hmmmmmm...
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post #22 of 53
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post
MacBook sales are flat and that means Apple is doomed like a shark that can't survive unless swimming forward.  I sense another Apple downgrade coming as it loses market share to Samsung and Android.  Wall Street's attitude is that if you're not number one in market share, you're just another failing company.  We well know that Apple doesn't have what it takes to be number one in market share in a world of dirt-cheap Android smartphones and tablets.  Only market leaders are given high P/Es and Apple's P/E is that of a third-string tech company.  Wall Street really doesn't like to count tablets because it might indicate that Apple could be worth something as a company.  The whole computer industry game is to devalue Apple as much as possible by scaring investors away.  The Android platform could be considered one of the worst financial models around, but Wall Street will give it credence because of those high market share numbers.  When millions of Android devices are activated daily it must be a good thing for somebody, at least in theory.

 

Anyone who uses "Apple is doomed" in a serious context has instantaneously invalidated his own point.

post #23 of 53
Just how do they come by these numbers for Apple since they don't release them? Sounds more like FUD to me.
post #24 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Anyone who uses "Apple is doomed" in a serious context has instantaneously invalidated his own point.

It is called sarcasm.

post #25 of 53
Originally Posted by roontoon View Post
It is called sarcasm.


Then he needs to mark it as such.

 

But I really don't think it is.

post #26 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


Isn't it funny though that they include Android tablets in the report... but specifically exclude iPad, Kindle and MS Surface.

 

WTF!??

because they can't get any product sales stats from Apple, Amazon, and MS. citing only what is sold by other retailers would omit too much.

post #27 of 53

once again, as always, bear in mind that NPD survey "data" is only partial, at best. at worst, it's crap. because NPD has no access to Apple sales information. this "weekly tracking report" about Black Friday does not make clear if they are including Apple store computer/laptop sales at all. if they are, then they are just guessing. if not, there could be a significant difference in fact.

 

we'll have to wait until late january to get the real facts about Apple products - from Apple. never NPD.

post #28 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by umrk_lab View Post


This does not contradict what I pointed out : OEM will gradually abandon Windows, but at the same time Windows users will also look at alternatives, the Mac being one of them, but not the only one (especially for low end notebooks, where saving the cost of Microsoft royalty can be a way to cut costs).

I am not convinced OEMs have that much freedom. In theory, they could adopt Linux, but in practice, the consumer/IT have shown little interest in Linux. That low end Linux notebook experiment you a talking about was tried already. It was called "Netbook." Between Apple's iPad and Microsoft's emergency downmarket-ing of Windows (i.e., Windows Starter Edition), the Netbook experiment failed to take off. Sure, Google is trying to revive the idea by calling it Chromebook, but that's just new rainbow-colored wallpaper over the same idea.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #29 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

because they can't get any product sales stats from Apple, Amazon, and MS. citing only what is sold by other retailers would omit too much.


Sales stats from Samsung?

 

Har!

Hmmmmmm...
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Hmmmmmm...
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post #30 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
The fact that there is no mention of iPad or iPhone numbers, I find rather concerning.

 

In an article about… traditional computers…

 

"Oh, no! From this manifest of fishing off the Grand Banks, I can't see how many toasters were sold by LG! They must not have sold very well…"

Wow, TS did you misplace your brain?  Who gives a damn about "the article"? I was talking about the report SITED in the article. (unless on the other hand the report actually DID report on iPad and iPhone numbers, and then AI just decided... "meh, why include that information; how is that relevant to anything". That would be pretty neglegent on AIs part, so I doubt that that was the case.

You do get points. however, for drawing the worst analogy I think I've ever heard.

post #31 of 53
Re: "NPD's tracking of consumer electronics excludes Apple's iPad, as well as Kindle products, Microsoft Surface, mobile phones and video games."

Not tracking iPad? Well there's your problem.

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post #32 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


I am not convinced OEMs have that much freedom. In theory, they could adopt Linux, but in practice, the consumer/IT have shown little interest in Linux. That low end Linux notebook experiment you a talking about was tried already. It was called "Netbook." Between Apple's iPad and Microsoft's emergency downmarket-ing of Windows (i.e., Windows Starter Edition), the Netbook experiment failed to take off. Sure, Google is trying to revive the idea by calling it Chromebook, but that's just new rainbow-colored wallpaper over the same idea.

 

 

 

Dell re-enters high-end Linux laptop market with Red Hat Enterprise Linux

Summary: UPDATED: Through the years, Dell has had an on-and-off relation with Linux. It looks like they’ve kissed and made up, judging by the pair of new high-end laptops running Red Hat Enterprise that Dell unveiled today. These systems will be available worldwide.

 


Dell-RHEL

Dell has blown hot and cold on the Linux desktop over the years. Dell was the first major original equipment manufacturer (OEM) to offer consumer Linux desktops in 2007, while  Ubuntu Linux-powered laptops  have often only been available from Dell by special order, Dell is recommitting itself to desktop Linux.  Besides the upcoming 'Sputnik' Ubuntu Linux developer laptop, Dell is now offering two new high-end mobile workstations with Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL) 6 for Desktops

Dell claims the two new systems -- the Dell Precision M4700 and M6700 -- are the "world's most powerful 15-inch and 17-inch mobile workstations." Citation needed, perhaps, but on the face of it do have a good aesthetic quality about them. 

Both models come with the latest Intel Core i5, i7 and Extreme Edition processors with Turbo Boost Technology, and a range of graphics cards including NVIDIA's Quadro K-series GPUS and AMD FirePro graphics. The top of the line M6700 also offers AMD FirePro M6000 with PCIe x16 Gen 3 for fast data throughput. With any of these you can get up to high-definition 1920x1080-pixel resolution.

You can cram as much as 32GBs of DDR3 SDRAM and up to 16GBs of 1866MHz memory for high performance and fast access to large data sets. For permanent storage, you can get 512GB solid-state drive (SSD), a 256GB SSD, or a 750GB hard drive. You can put up to three storage devices in the M4700 and four in the M6700, meaning for enough money you can have to 1.8TBs in the former and up to 2.8TBs of total storage in the latter. Dell, for one PC maker, clearly still believes in local PC storage instead of cloud computing.

On both systems, the I/O ports include two USB 3.0, two USB 2.0 and one eSATA / USB combo ports and three integrated video ports: VGA, HDMI and DisplayPort 1.2.

What about Ubuntu Linux on Dell? You can still order it in some countries and, of course, Ubuntu 12.04 will be on the Sputnik.

Dell is currently selling Ubuntu powered laptops in China and India retail stores. In the States and most other countries, you'll need to special order Ubuntu laptops. Dell, Lenovo, and HP all have many systems, which have been certified with Ubuntu. 

Dell has informed me that the RHEL-powered workstations will be available throughout the world. The audience for these systems will be  developers and engineers with the deep pockets needed to spend $1,649 for the Dell Precision M4700, $2,199 for the M6700 and $3,579 for the M6700 with all the trimmings,

post #33 of 53

Microsoft is doomed, spread the the word please - Perception IS Reality - aka. def:  Trancendental Realism (Rudolph Steiner)

Originally by Rickers - 2014 : Cook & will bury Apple.  They can only ride Steve's ghost so long.



 Originally Posted by  thataveragejoe :  Next week  Korea Times, "I'm gay too"-Samsung



 



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Originally by Rickers - 2014 : Cook & will bury Apple.  They can only ride Steve's ghost so long.



 Originally Posted by  thataveragejoe :  Next week  Korea Times, "I'm gay too"-Samsung



 



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post #34 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

More interesting is that Apple stayed flat with barely any discounts but many Windows machines were knocked way down and sales were less.

It probably means Windows notebook shoppers are more price sensitive. If the average notebook went for $369, it sounds like the average Black Friday notebook went for either $299 or $399. In other words: bottom of the plastic barrel.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #35 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


I am not convinced OEMs have that much freedom. In theory, they could adopt Linux, but in practice, the consumer/IT have shown little interest in Linux. That low end Linux notebook experiment you a talking about was tried already. It was called "Netbook." Between Apple's iPad and Microsoft's emergency downmarket-ing of Windows (i.e., Windows Starter Edition), the Netbook experiment failed to take off. Sure, Google is trying to revive the idea by calling it Chromebook, but that's just new rainbow-colored wallpaper over the same idea.

 

IT I might disagree with you. But the average Joe Consumer pretty much. That group, which is the major money making target, is too into the GUI at this point. They aren't likely to go back to command line even if it is better. So for an OEM to snag them, they would have to make a GUI for the system. One that is just as easy to learn as Windows/Mac. And without the copycat accusations that might blog them up with lawsuits (or license the heck out of things). Who is going to bother with that much work when they can just use Windows. 

 

And on the consumer front it is unlikely that they would go for this new system when they have Windows that everyone knows or Mac which Apple teaches via workshops etc. Or even just their ipad cause that's all the computer they need and that was 'childs play' to learn. 

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

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post #36 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


It probably means Windows notebook shoppers are more price sensitive. 

 

Or Black Friday ones are. In fact I would say that that is a given. it's the nature of Black Friday after all. Which is part of why MacBooks with basically no discount staying flat while the generally discount shopper friendly Windows notebooks fell is so interesting. 

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

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post #37 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post

Wow, TS did you misplace your brain?  Who gives a damn about "the article"? I was talking about the report SITED in the article. (unless on the other hand the report actually DID report on iPad and iPhone numbers, and then AI just decided... "meh, why include that information; how is that relevant to anything". That would be pretty neglegent on AIs part, so I doubt that that was the case.

You do get points. however, for drawing the worst analogy I think I've ever heard.

 

TS isn't always my fav guy in the world and often I think he speaks before thinking but this time I have to back him. You replied in a comment thread about an AI article without specifying that you were talking about the source report. His reply was based on what you did say,  not what you didn't that we should be able to figure out without any clues. So your dig is way out of line. If anyone misplaced a brain it was you for not going back and seeing that you didn't say 'in the source report' (or something to that effect) in the original comment. 

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

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post #38 of 53

Dear God who cares... A day where people run each over and pull guns on each other. Yah !!!!! What a great fucking day...

post #39 of 53
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post
Dear God who cares... A day where people run each over and pull guns on each other. Yah !!!!! What a great fucking day...

 

Sounds like that could potentially describe every day of the year. What's your point?

post #40 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Sounds like that could potentially describe every day of the year. What's your point?

 

You really need this spelled out or are you pretending to be obtuse? Just a question...

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