Tim Cook hints that Apple plans to redefine the television set - Page 2

 

LOL, is truth. Though, if they do make a TV, their biggest innovation will be getting all the parts of the puzzle to work together, i.e. their biggest innovation will be making it all look so simple.

I second this notion...but replace "son" with cats.

I'm one that just wants something that I can veg-out on.  I don't need Facebook, Email, Twitter, etc. on my TV.  That's what the iPad is for.  The suppliment to watching TV.  Now-a-days, it's me, my girlfriend, the cats, TV and our iPads.

 

But, here's my wish-list of things they could add should it be a full TV set they introduce (but not my preference):

1. Facetime on the TV.

2. TV Network Apps with in-App purchases of additional Channels at Monthly rates. (i.e. NBC is a free to watch but Bravo costs 0.99$/mo.)

3. Control over every INPUT from the ATV UI.

4. DVR UI

 

About this debate between a display or a STB...my long-winded option

Personally, I see it as a STB. The experts have already shown enough proof the TV market is really not a big enough market for Apple to really make sweeping changes in. A full monitor is pointless if you still have to plug-in components (I.e. cable, HT audio, BD, etc...) and for Apple to spend R&D on integrating all those technologies into a device that would make a marginal impact on the TV market would be a waste of time and resources.

Where Apple will tackle this market it in control. My crappy Motorola STB cable remote already has the capability to control all my HT devices. If Apple could do this, they wouldn't need a full Apple 42"-55" TV. If they could just reinvent the ATV home screen to become more customized to your existing components...and have the ability to fully utilize their functionalities, then you'd have something. And at $99, you'd have a totally new experience controlled entirely from the ATV. You need to calibrate your monitor, ATV does it. You want to play a BD? There an app for that. Watch live or recorded TV? Another home screen App. The Interface is what will make the new ATV popular. It will make the TV experience easier.

What is the future I'd Apps for ATV? I don't know but I'm thinking it will be as paid subscriptions. You want NBC? Their App could be free for basic over-air programming, but cost you $X.99/mo. per extra channel, like app add-ons. Frankly, I'm not sure why this idea hasn't already been initiated. I guess that might be closer to the equivalent of Hulu+. However, what really pisses me off about Hulu is that current episodes have a time window of viewing before they become "expired" and don't return until who-knows-when, prolly after the BD comes out for the season. That's the one drawback to Hulu, and that the entire catalog of each network is not available on Hulu. They have BBC America, but not Doctor Who, or Top Gear or any other top show they have. Hulu is nice for $8/mo. But has drawbacks.

Still not a 1:1 to traditional cable. Apple needs to rival cable in some way to be viable at all in this market. They can't do it on hardware alone, or just in software and/or services. And hardware would be pointless, since price will drive sales 99.99% of the time in this market. so why not tackle the software/UI and services? And sell millions more $99 STBs instead? You'd get a lot more users on a cheap box with great services and UI than an expensive panel that may look and function great, but has no user base because its out of most user's price point.

 

and here's something i incorrectly posted on another thread that's more relevant to this thread:

 

That being said.  I think the future of consumer computing (at least for multi-user households) will be a device that marries the Mac Mini with the Apple TV and the Airport Extreme, all in one device.  This could be accessed by the TV, a laptop or a dumb terminal, and/or an iDevice.  More and More people are moving way from the home office an into other parts of the house with computers, making the traditional desk less and less relevant and desirable.  The future is going to be more of a home server that stores all your date (along with iCloud, of course) but can be accessed remotely from any device in Apple's ecosystem.

 

Many might say this is already achievable in the Mac Mini server...I say not quite.  It's still another OSX device you have to manage.  My vision is much simpler.  More like a iPad server that much more powerful, but scores easier to use.  It's UI could adapt to whatever device you're accessing it from, unlike the Mac Mini that's strictly OSX-based.  Why not create a device that works with your devices, rather than the devices having to conform to it?  I don't see it as another computer to manage, more so a storage and access point from multiple sources and adapts to those UI's.

 

For the general public, most people use computers for 3 primary uses:

• Content consumption and Entertainment (i.e. games, music, video)
• Internet, email and communications (i.e. mail, messages, safari, Facetime)
• Content creation (i.e. iWork suite)

 

Apple already has all the software they need to achieve these things.  The problem is that all three have an ideal UI/iDevice that work with them best.

Content consumption = iDevice or TV

Internet, Email & Communicaitons = iDevice/Laptop

Content Creation = Laptop/Desktop

 

So IMO, seeing as there is not longer a need for a single device to do all these basic things most people use a computer for, why not create a device that works with all your different UI's but puts the brains of it all in a central location?  Let's take home sharing to the next level.

 

Bla, bla, bla, they'll end up making a TV and you'll buy it.

 

Yeah, I think his figures are wrong.

Hardware with low margins is not the Apple way.

"social" networks is the most anti-social invention of all time. Go out, talk to real people instead of having 1000 fake friends that are projecting a false image of themselves.

I would say that his comment is of the vein of his post PC talk. I think that like that TV is moving from THE entertainment piece to part of a fluid and flowing system. Look at what they have done with AirPlay etc to see other clues. Even the recent changes in iTunes 11 could be steps in the system

But the system does require Apple to create a cable company, even a deal with a cable company, a real TV etc. despite the rumors. Heck it doesn't require apple to create Netflix or pandora either.

IMO this TV will be the test by which we know if Apple is on the down-swing now instead of still firing on all cylinders. If upon arriving it has either:

- multiple speakers that you can attach
- a separate amplifier
- a cable box

Then we will know that Apple is over and done.

They can't get Apple TV to look simple can't see how that'll change with a full blown set.

 

Indeed. But the Apple TV as is most likely a VERY low profit maker for them. A TV would likely end up making them more money than 2 or 3 Apple TVs, I'd bet. And if they can offer a basic TV subscription, as an option, the consumer may have a second choice at checkout, to get the TV for an entry price they may be far more willing to entertain. So, you'd pay $1,299 (perhaps more) to get the TV with no contract, and total freedom, or you'd pay $499 and you'd get the TV with a subscription contract - the option the vast majority of iTV consumers would choose.

 

That's a viable go to market strategy, well, the bones of one, provided they can convince the content makers to play ball, which is a tall order.

Edited by Ireland - 12/6/12 at 8:03am

This:

 

... is more like a 50 year old TV, (not a 20-30 year old TV). 

 

This is closer to a "20-30 year old TV"

 

 

Edit: I see someone has already pointed this out above.

 

Hardly.

Could you post a copy of the memo you received confirming that they are definitely building a TV set.

They doesn't equal Tim. He's not a designer or engineer so he has no business need to be studying them and he might in fact not have a TV for personal viewing.

And the existing market sucking is more about the content than the TVs.

Seems rather clear that you think they should make a TV so you are reading everything as proof you are right. But your wishes don't make it true.

 Meanwhile, 100 years ago:

 

"telephone" networks are the most anti-social invention of all time. Go out, talk to real people instead of having an address book full of moochers that only call you when they want something.

 

My point: It is what you make of it.

The don't need to rely on Loewe (don't take me wrong, cause I like their design) since they do have Johnny Yves on board. He will do the trick, there is no doubt.

Edited by Rabbit_Coach - 12/6/12 at 8:31am

 

I didn't mean you, obviously.

It doesn't.  It's all speculation.   One of the reasons why the TV market sucks is because a lot of people are waiting for Apple to release an actually line of Smart TVs.  And maybe just the pent up demand being built is enough to through off the TV market.  Right now, Plasma is being phased out, and Sharp's new iGZO technology is going to be released next month at CES and that's supposed to be the replacement for what is currently on the market since it can go to higher resolution, requires less power, etc.

 

Yep, all I want is a dumb screen to plug stuff into, I don't even want to pay for built in tuner or speakers.

 

My main TV has an Apple TV, a Raspberry Pi, a Sony Blueray player, an X-box and a dual tuner STB with hard drive plugged in and is plugged into a 5.1 channel Pioneer amp.

 

I pretty much have everything on my network and the Internet covered.

 

The TV part is the least important.

 

Steve Jobs has commented in this biography that Apple has finally cracked it, with regards this very subject. Apple likes total control. Apple likes total simplicity. And other incidentals, including Steve Cooks recent comments.

 

I don't have a memo, but I do have intelligence, instinct and imagination, which I use. You'll rebut that I have zero proof, but then Apple will make a TV and you'll say I got lucky. In a sense this the iPhone and iPad all over again. Most people here called me a loon on both occasions, but when the product was announced I received a few "sorry, I was wrong dude" PMs. Unlike Gruber though, I don't care to be always right, I just feel I am right about this TV thing. Time will tell if am. And I'm not saying they might make a TV, allowing me to be right whether they do or don't, I'm saying they will.

Seeing as how Panasonic just showcased a 8K (no not 4K) plasma I highly doubt that they're being phased out. The picture quality and refresh rate are still tops.

 

I hope you're right. I own and love plasmas. I have a Kuro. Sadly, though, my gut tells me Apple's iTV will be an LCD.

 

Nor would anyone; don't worry. I think you really ought to build one of your own and jam an Apple TV inside it. That'd fix everything and both parties would be happy. 

 

In the "going back 20 to 30 years" comment, I think it's hilarious that people take this as "proof" they're making a TV. Can't draw that conclusion.

 

When time traveling, how do you know you've time traveled? Go to New York City and then go back in time 20 years. If you're in most places, you can't even tell. The buildings are the same. The buildings can't tell you that you've gone back in time, but the clothes worn by the people coming in and out of the buildings can. The words they say and the actions they take can. 

 

Let's look through a window into the past. Now let's look through the same window at the present and the future. You can do that. Windows are made of glass in both places. Gorilla Glass jokes aside, the window stays the same; what you see, how you see it, and what it all means are what change. 

That is the ugliest thing I've ever seen. Looks like a 4 year old designed it. No thanks, I'll keep the black and white version.

This is so very different from the iPhone/iPad. With the iPhone Apple was able to create a relatively new form factor and then content was made to suit it. In the case of a TV the content already exists. They cannot hardware wise make anything much different than what's already being made. Are they going to use a piece of milled aluminum? That makes sense for a portable device but not for a TV.

Uh uh. I think I'll go throw up.

 

Thanks for proving Cook right.

Stop showing an iMac every time there is an article on a new Apple TV. Don't you have anyone with imagination and photoshop skills?

 

So you've never seen an iMac in your entire life?

I hardly think even Apple has a big enough corner in the TV Market right now to stir-up such hysteria.

 

IMO, the reason why the TV market sucks right now has many factors, and it's probably the combination of all those factors that contribute to it's suckage.

Apple's interest in the TV market and the speculation around is probably accounts for about 1-4% of it...at the very best.

 

Other factors:

• The TV industry is updating and changing formats so quickly that people are just not buying into them.
• Consumers that already have a $1500+ 1080p TV they bought 5 years ago and are happy with them and see no reason to upgrade.
• There is such a flood of STBs now plus the same or similar tech built into TVs that no one is buying into because nobody wants to subscribe to all these different things and have a cable bill and purchase physical media, so they pick all, one or nothing.
• Between Amazon Instant, Netflix, Hulu+, iTunes, etc. there's no single good source to replace Cable or Live TV.  And even then it's not a 1:1 replacement, you still need some kind of live content.
• The Media industry is nickel-and-dime'ing us with 3D, Digital versions, Special Editions, PPV, Online Only, Subscription only, etc. galore and people are getting pretty pissed.
• The cable companies are screwing us with content only available on some services but not others.

 

It all boils down to the shear fact that there is no one factor that's killing the Home Entertainment industry.  50% of it is the Media Industry's fault, the other 50% is the Hardware Industry.  And the biggest problem this industry has to face is...What's Next?  Because what we have now is a cluster-****.  They keep trying new things but nothing seems to work.  And IMO, when you give people too many mediocre choices and zero great choices, you're left with a really bad situation.

Au contraire, I vote for B&O. My parents always bought that, now I buy that. Did get a Samsung last time, which resulted in me not watching that much TV anymore, the experience is a total frustrating... never mind

God I love that design. Two legs visible, two buttons, presumably Channel and Volume, two antenna sprieten, hmm, Twin Peaks Revisited.

Don't forget that Apple will release it, whatever it is. It will sell like crazy. A year later everyone else has copied it and all the innovation Apple has done on it will be deemed as "obvious" and "stealing".
[/quote]

I'm not so certain on that; remember Apple is also all about partnership. Sure, if they make a TV Set we'll see the copy cats, being obvious and such, but as Steve said during AllThingsDx (don't remember which year) "...it's all in the software".

Besides, it wouldn't be the first time for Apple to build a TV:

 

Oh god, thanks for the memory.  My dad had this exact  TV set.  I was the remote control lol

First, I have to strongly disagree with you on the profit margin of the Apple TV (STB).  It's basically the iPod Nano with no storage (besides for systems files), no battery and no screen.  Considering the fact that these are the three most expensive components in an iOS device, I'd say $99 will garner a very nice profit.

 

Your theory that for every one TV apple sells will gain more profit than 2-3 ATV STBs I think misses the point.  You also will loose that many customers because of the high mark-up Apple will need to make their 20%-50% profit margin they usually make.  And you will have that many few subscribers...which means lower adoption rate, meaning product failure.

 

I think a subsidized Apple Television might be an interesting path to investigate, but I really doubt the Media Company want to partner with Apple on anything.  But it's more a win for Media and Apple than it is for the Consumer.  We are still living that nightmare 5 years after the iPhone with exclusive AT&T was introduced.  The only way Apple could accomplish this successfully would be with a company like AT&T or a Cable company.  But, there is too much diversity in Local Cable providers, and none of them (nor AT&T) has full coverage in every part of every city either.  And I don't think Apple would want to leave customers in the dust because the exclusive provider doesn't service their area.  As an example.  My area (which is one of the older and well establish adjacent suburbs of St. Louis) has local cable available, but not UVerse.  People that live in Apartments, or Condos...some building managers/owners will not allow both cable and Dish, it's one or the other is most cases.

Wasn't there some rumor back in January about Ive having a 50" TV in his design studio?

I don't see Cooks comments as indicating Apple is doing a TV set. But one reason I think they could go down that route is even though its low margin it would probably still make them more money than the current ATV does. Plus if they really are doing something to reinvent the TV space, do they want you accessing it via a TV with a Samsung or LG logo on it?

I think that the approach Nintendo has had with the WiiU is really clever. Content can easily be accessed from any source available, be it live, download or streaming.

Add a way for content providers to seamlessly deliver additional content, and a way for people to interact while watching the same content (some kind of social network), and you're done!

hell yeah, i want it to be individualized. i don't want to have to pay $100 for 1500 channels with only 5 of those channels playing things i'm interested in. i'd like to be able to subscribe only to the shows i like. that's it.

 

newsticker? are you kidding me? that's the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard. talk about a distraction. sounds more like a google feature.

Yeah I have, how about you? The image in the article looks like a 27" iMac with a shorter chin and black bezel. Wow, such a big difference! The Samsung TV at least looks like a 55" TV. 

If they had an additional screen like the WiiU provides, additional data could be feed to the second screen without distracting from the main experience.

I agree, however Panasonic is the company to invented Plasma technology so if in a couple years they're the only one's using it...might be a sign it's dead.

 

I do agree, plasma is way better for viewing content.  All other tech's are too bright and saturated, Plasma is way more natural looking and much closer to CRT, which many TV Techies agree is still the best quality picture out there.

 

I bought my Plasma about 6 months before 1080p became industry standard or "Full-HD" around 2005.  However, I'm totally satisfied with the picture quality, it's fantastic!  NO screen burn ever, no dimming over time...still looks as good as the day they delivered it.

 

Now, that's not saying if a full fledged Apple Television did debut in late January as the "One more thing", that I wouldn't buy one.  I'd probably wait until gen 2 or 3, but I would definitely get one as soon as my current set died.

There is really nothing Cook said that screams TV **set**. My take all along is that this is a set-top box, and it's all predicated on deals with the cable guys and the content guys. That's where the subsidy lies, that's where the margin lies, and there is existing iOS goodness in that realm via Apple TV, something that I blogged about here:

 

Apple's iTV and the implications of what Steve said

http://radar.oreilly.com/2012/02/apple-itv-television.html

 

Check it out, if interested.

you can already do this in iTunes on any iOS Device, including the Apple TV.

 

I've done some math for my household.  If I cut my cable and went strictly Antenna for Live, Hulu+ and Netflix for streaming, supplemented by iTunes for shows not available on any of the others...we could save almost $50/mo. on our entertainment bill.  So it's possible to cut the cable or drop the dish, but it's not a huge savings. but that's just my situation.  CBS, BBC and HBO are the biggest reasons why we'd have to supplement with iTunes, otherwise Hulu+ and Netflix with Over-Air Free would be just fine.

 

No, you haven't. No one can possibly take you seriously when you say this.

 

So not in the slightest like an iMac, given that it has no chin whatsoever and looks exactly like a Thunderbolt Display that has an interface (poorly) edited onto it. 

 

Fine, next time you want to buy an iMac, I'll sell you a Thunderbolt Display that has no computer in it at all. You're fine with that.

 

Your explicit mention of a size probably implies something, but I can't imagine what it is so I'll ignore it.

 

"Loohs like a TV," huh? In what way doesn't the Thunderbolt Display look like a TV?