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Apple's recent executive shakeup was about 'collaboration,' Tim Cook says

post #1 of 63
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Though Apple Chief Executive Tim Cook stopped short of explicitly criticizing recently ousted executives Scott Forstall and John Browett, he did say that recent personnel changes were done to encourage "collaboration."

The comments from Cook from from his extensive interview with Bloomberg published on Thursday. Though Cook did not name Forstall specifically, his comments support earlier reports that claimed Forstall was let go from Apple in part because he was not a team player.

Cook told reporter Josh Tyrangiel that he has a strong belief that collaboration is "essential for innovation." It's also a core belief at Apple, and was something that company co-founder Steve Jobs also shared in.

"You have to be A-plus at collaboration," Cook said. "And so the changes that we made get us to a whole new level of collaboration. We've got services all in one place, and the guy that's running that has incredible skills in services, has an incredible track record, and I'm confident will do fantastic things."

The Apple CEO went on to praise lead designer Jony Ive, saying he has "the best taste of anyone in the world." In his new position, Ive will be responsible for the company's Human Interface division.

Tim Cook


Cook said the "face" of the iPhone and iPad is its software, and so it only makes sense for Ive, who designs the hardware, to also have a hand in the software that runs on these devices.

"Jony has done a remarkable job leading our hardware design, so let's have Jony responsible for the software and the look and feel of the software," he said. "Not the underlying architecture and so forth, but the look and feel."

Cook also praised Bob Mansfield, Apple's senior vice president of Technologies, as the finest engineering manager in the world and "in a class by himself." And Craig Federighi, Apple's senior vice president of Software Engineering was called "unbelievable."

"These moves take collaboration to a whole different level," Cook said. "We already were ??to use an industry phrase I don't like ??best of breed. But it takes us to a whole new level."

The ouster of Forstall and Browett, announced in October, represented a major change to Apple's top brass. While Browett's short-lived tenure as head of retail operations at Apple was filled with controversy, Forstall was a longtime member of Apple's team and was also close to the former CEO, Jobs.
post #2 of 63
So reading between the lines, Tim Cook did not like Forstall and Forstall was incredibly political, basically building his own fiefdom within Apple and that's no-go with Cook.
post #3 of 63

I think Tim's talking a little too much these days. 

 

He obviously knows what he's doing. It's just that I'm not used to seeing Apple go out and explain their moves like that. 

post #4 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

I think Tim's talking a little too much these days. 

He obviously knows what he's doing. It's just that I'm not used to seeing Apple go out and explain their moves like that. 

Totally agree! Tim, don't go soft on us! And for god'a sake, DO NOT BRING MANUFACTURING TO THE US!!!!! You have a fiduciary duty to your stockholders that says DON'T DO IT!!!!!
post #5 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

So reading between the lines, Tim Cook did not like Forstall and Forstall was incredibly political, basically building his own fiefdom within Apple and that's no-go with Cook.

More like the rumors that Forstall was an obnoxious asshat that wouldn't take comment, opinion or otherwise from anyone were true and Cook tossed a rotten piece of fruit before it ruined the barrel.

Tim Cook had Steve's vote and showed several times he could handle the job even before Steve left. Ive, Mansfield and Schiller were also Steve's chosen. But apparently Forstall wouldn't work with any of them. His fiefdom was basically his team which was treated well because they followed his orders but were also, it seems, forced to play audience to his constant bad mouthing of Cook, over SVP, product teams etc. that's rather toxic. And then to royally botch iOS and cost the company in good will, consumer confidence and repairs on phones and iPads bricked by the update. Not a winning move by Forstall. Any support he had on the Board would likely turn on him over that foul up
Edited by charlituna - 12/6/12 at 7:46am
post #6 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post

Totally agree! Tim, don't go soft on us! And for god'a sake, DO NOT BRING MANUFACTURING TO THE US!!!!! You have a fiduciary duty to your stockholders that says DON'T DO IT!!!!!

Prove without a doubt that bringing anything to he US is bad for the stockholders. You can't.

As for the talking, that was Steve's game but he's dead and so much plant food. So his opinion on the matter doesn't. According to story he even said as much to Tim. And just mayhem if there was more of this kind of think being putting out there folks would stop with the constant rumor mongering to get page hits off the company
post #7 of 63
Quote:

Apple's recent executive shakeup was about 'collaboration,' Tim Cook says

 

Again.

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post #8 of 63
That collaboration will be so very necesary to lead Apple into the new products it will need to pull away from Android.
post #9 of 63
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Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post
 ...  "Jony has done a remarkable job leading our hardware design, so let's have Jony responsible for the software and the look and feel of the software," he said. "Not the underlying architecture and so forth, but the look and feel."   ...

 

As far as I'm aware, this is the very first time we've heard anything this explicit about Ive's new role and I find this comment absolutely alarming.  it remains to be seen what talents Ive has in software design, but one thing is for certain .. he has absolutely no actual qualifications in that area.  

 

As a former designer myself, I can say that no one in the design field would ever make the assumption that Cook is apparently making here.  Skill at 3D design or industrial design simply does not equate to skill in 2D design, production design, or software design.  They are completely different things.  

 

Perhaps there is more to it than is apparent from Cook's comments, but if (as seems apparent) he is basically saying, "Well, Jony is great at designing the hardware so we thought we'd put him in charge of the look and feel of the software too."  then Apple could easily be making a horrible mistake here.  

 

Taste is not universal.  You can be an excellent Industrial designer and still be a wearer of ugly sweaters who likes to watch "Family Guy."  Let's hope that against all odds, Jony Ive turns out to be a world leader at something he's never even been trained for.  The odds are against it however. 

post #10 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

I think Tim's talking a little too much these days. 

He obviously knows what he's doing. It's just that I'm not used to seeing Apple go out and explain their moves like that. 
So he did an interview with Brian Williams and Bloomberg. What other talking has he done?
post #11 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

As far as I'm aware, this is the very first time we've heard anything this explicit about Ive's new role and I find this comment absolutely alarming. It remains to be seen what talents Ive has in software design, but one thing is for certain .. he has absolutely no actual qualifications in that area

 

You can't get qualifications in taste and sensibility.

 

Ive is a design genius. I trust he'll make the right decisions. His hardware design choices always have a sense of inevitably about them. I fully expect the same from his software design choices, because that's what he'll be doing, saying yes and no. From what I've heard Loren Brichter say recently (Loren was involved with the design of iOS 1), Jony was also involved in the software design of iOS 1.


Edited by Ireland - 12/6/12 at 8:29am
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post #12 of 63
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Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


So he did an interview with Brian Williams and Bloomberg. What other talking has he done?

 

D Conference and other snippets here and there, and many Apple events.

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post #13 of 63

Of course you can't prove it, but on the other hand we have a considerable amount of realistic experience here that indicates that it is universally bad for stock holders.   Anybody with any sense can see which industries and companies have flourished with the move to China and which have suffered trying to run manufacturing in the USA.   The evidence is out there all you have to do is look, wake up and digest.

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Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post

Totally agree! Tim, don't go soft on us! And for god'a sake, DO NOT BRING MANUFACTURING TO THE US!!!!! You have a fiduciary duty to your stockholders that says DON'T DO IT!!!!!

Prove without a doubt that bringing anything to he US is bad for the stockholders. You can't.

As for the talking, that was Steve's game but he's dead and so much plant food. So his opinion on the matter doesn't. According to story he even said as much to Tim. And just mayhem if there was more of this kind of think being putting out there folks would stop with the constant rumor mongering to get page hits off the company

Tim is free to do whatever he wants.    However don't be foolish here these sorts of releases are not accidental. Apple knows damn well that it can sway the minds of millions of consumers by simply alluding to new products and keep them from buying the competitors products.   Case in point iPad Mini which through well place leaks was kept in the publics mind for months until it was ready to ship.   In a way Tims comments are not unusual at all with respect to Apple and their ability to manipulate the consumer.

post #14 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

I think Tim's talking a little too much these days. 

He obviously knows what he's doing. It's just that I'm not used to seeing Apple go out and explain their moves like that. 

I think he's trying to do something about the irrational stock price drop. The message is "we're not just firing people left and right because of problems with the company, but are rather reinforcing our core values" - which is a positive message. I suspect we'll see more disclosures in coming months in areas that are not giving away company secrets.
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post #15 of 63
I think bringing some manufacturing (back) to the US is a great move even if it is only symbolic at this time. The labor force in America has become divided between white collar (decent salary and benefits) and the ever increasing low wage service-benefit-less jobs. There was a time not too long ago when a person could consider themselves and family as middle class even with a job in manufacturing. If Apple puts even 5% percent of the company's manufacturing in the USA they will probably be one of the very few if not only company of its scale to do so. Of course a huge investment in infrastructure would be necessary but Apple has deep pockets. If you don't invest in your future you wont have one.
post #16 of 63
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Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

As far as I'm aware, this is the very first time we've heard anything this explicit about Ive's new role and I find this comment absolutely alarming.  it remains to be seen what talents Ive has in software design, but one thing is for certain .. he has absolutely no actual qualifications in that area.  

 

As a former designer myself, I can say that no one in the design field would ever make the assumption that Cook is apparently making here.  Skill at 3D design or industrial design simply does not equate to skill in 2D design, production design, or software design.  They are completely different things.

 

First, just so we're all clear here. It seems obvious that Jony will be overseeing the visual design aspects of the software (not the software design itself). This is a subtle difference that is lost on some people.

 

Second, Jony will be overseeing a team that is likely already in place and probably setting direction, philosophy and "tone" while probably not actually designing directly himself.

 

Third, I don't agree that design sense and principles are not transferable, which is what I suspect will be the modus operandi here.

 

Finally, it's certainly possible this may turn out to be an epic fail. But I'm optimistic that it is a good move and willing to reserve judgement until we start seeing the fruits of this change.

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post #17 of 63
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Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post


Totally agree! Tim, don't go soft on us! And for god'a sake, DO NOT BRING MANUFACTURING TO THE US!!!!! You have a fiduciary duty to your stockholders that says DON'T DO IT!!!!!

 

How do you know the costs involved?  Have you gone through the numbers?  The MacPros could be mostly assembled with robots.  Less freight charges since they wouldn't fly them into the US market from China.

post #18 of 63
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Originally Posted by drblank View Post

The MacPros could be mostly assembled with robots.

 

Possibly. I don't know. But I thought the whole "build it in America" fetishists were all about employing people in America to build things.

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post #19 of 63
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Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

As far as I'm aware, this is the very first time we've heard anything this explicit about Ive's new role and I find this comment absolutely alarming.  it remains to be seen what talents Ive has in software design, but one thing is for certain .. he has absolutely no actual qualifications in that area.  

As a former designer myself, I can say that no one in the design field would ever make the assumption that Cook is apparently making here.  Skill at 3D design or industrial design simply does not equate to skill in 2D design, production design, or software design.  They are completely different things.  

Perhaps there is more to it than is apparent from Cook's comments, but if (as seems apparent) he is basically saying, "Well, Jony is great at designing the hardware so we thought we'd put him in charge of the look and feel of the software too."  then Apple could easily be making a horrible mistake here.  

Taste is not universal.  You can be an excellent Industrial designer and still be a wearer of ugly sweaters who likes to watch "Family Guy."  Let's hope that against all odds, Jony Ive turns out to be a world leader at something he's never even been trained for.  The odds are against it however. 
Just curious, was Steve Jobs ever trained in software design? He wasn't a designer, or engineer yet everyone seemed to trust his taste and judgement. Tim Cook isn't stupid and my guess is he didn't make this decision on his own. And I don't think Ive would take on this role if he didn't think he had the skills for it.
post #20 of 63
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Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

D Conference and other snippets here and there, and many Apple events.
OK. Guess I don't see what the issue is with that. I mean he's not like Eric Schmidt giving interviews left and right saying stupid things.
post #21 of 63
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post
Possibly. I don't know. But I thought the whole "build it in America" fetishists were all about employing people in America to build things.

 

People fix and program the robots. Both high and low-end American jobs.

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post #22 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

As far as I'm aware, this is the very first time we've heard anything this explicit about Ive's new role and I find this comment absolutely alarming.  it remains to be seen what talents Ive has in software design, but one thing is for certain .. he has absolutely no actual qualifications in that area.  

As a former designer myself, I can say that no one in the design field would ever make the assumption that Cook is apparently making here.  Skill at 3D design or industrial design simply does not equate to skill in 2D design, production design, or software design.  They are completely different things.  

Perhaps there is more to it than is apparent from Cook's comments, but if (as seems apparent) he is basically saying, "Well, Jony is great at designing the hardware so we thought we'd put him in charge of the look and feel of the software too."  then Apple could easily be making a horrible mistake here.  

Taste is not universal.  You can be an excellent Industrial designer and still be a wearer of ugly sweaters who likes to watch "Family Guy."  Let's hope that against all odds, Jony Ive turns out to be a world leader at something he's never even been trained for.  The odds are against it however. 

Alarming? Yes, it remains to be seen... but the guy has taste, no need to be alarmed if he has the ability to design beautiful designed software as well. Just don't think Ive:
1. has the only vote in the matter at going to release any software. I'm sure it will go through all the regular decision makers,
2. he could only design the looks of it, not specifically how the software works.
3. I'm failling to see why any odds are against him. If anything, people have bought Apple products. Whether that is because the liked the looks of it or they think 'it just works' is not an either this or that situation.
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post #23 of 63
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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

People fix and program the robots. Both high and low-end American jobs.

 

True. But this is relatively small potatoes. The general implication about "bringing manufacturing back to America" is about the hundreds of thousands or millions of jobs that will presumably result.

 

More than that, the investment in tools like robots is also a cost/benefit analysis problem where the question of whether inexpensive labor can do the same job without buying the tools. I think most people just don't get that all of the factors like transport, labor, tool investments are all factored into the decisions to manufacture in places like China. If it was better and cheaper to build in the US, companies would be doing it. For some products it is. For some products it is not.

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post #24 of 63
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Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

OK. Guess I don't see what the issue is with that. I mean he's not like Eric Schmidt giving interviews left and right saying stupid things.


I could be wrong but so far it seems that Cook is only talking about Apple, unlike Schidt and Ballsmer, who like to criticize other companies.

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post #25 of 63
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post
The general implication about "bringing manufacturing back to America" is about the hundreds of thousands or millions of jobs that will presumably result.

 

Complete nonsense. Apple is one company. No lone company could or would do that. Period. People need to get over their absolutely ludicrous expectations.


You get the millions of jobs via dozens and hundreds of companies doing this. I want to see more companies stepping up to the government in places where there hasn't been change and saying, "Hey, we'll take it from here, yeah?" Have someone manufacture fiber in the US and have US workers out there, replacing copper with said fiber. Then have more US workers repurposing that copper. Etc (for other industries).

 

I'm all for Apple bringing jobs back. But when their stock PLUMMETS after having not only exceeding expectations but breaking their own company records quarter after quarter after quarter, what do you think will happen when Apple brings, say, ten thousand jobs to the US? They'll be screamed at, vilified, and the only subject of any discussion on any news channel about jobs in America, in which Apple is nothing but a demon, not singlehandedly taking unemployment from 14 to 5%. Never mind that you'll not only hear absolutely nothing about any other company, none of them will have brought one single job back to this country.

 

Slap the idiots in line first, then we can worry about Apple's real efforts to bring jobs here.

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post #26 of 63
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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Complete nonsense. Apple is one company. No lone company could or would do that. Period. People need to get over their absolutely ludicrous expectations.

 

Slow down and chill. I wasn't speaking only about Apple.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

You get the millions of jobs via dozens and hundreds of companies doing this.

 

But not if all they're doing is building robotic factories that have a few people maintaining the robots.

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

You get the millions of jobs via dozens and hundreds of companies doing this. I want to see more companies stepping up to the government in places where there hasn't been change and saying, "Hey, we'll take it from here, yeah?" Have someone manufacture fiber in the US and have US workers out there, replacing copper with said fiber. Then have more US workers repurposing that copper. Etc (for other industries).

 

Which will be done when it makes economic sense to do so.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I'm all for Apple bringing jobs back.

 

I don't rally care. But then, I don't have the same fetish some have about jobs being performed in certain specific geographical areas.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

But when their stock PLUMMETS after having not only exceeding expectations but breaking their own company records quarter after quarter after quarter, what do you think will happen when Apple brings, say, ten thousand jobs to the US?

 

I suspect it will depend on the affect investors believe that move will have on the company's future profits and valuation.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

They'll be screamed at, vilified, and the only subject of any discussion on any news channel about jobs in America, in which Apple is nothing but a demon, not singlehandedly taking unemployment from 14 to 5%.

 

And you were accusing me of uttering "complete nonsense" above. 1rolleyes.gif lol.gif

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Slap the idiots in line first, then we can worry about Apple's real efforts to bring jobs here.

 

The main thing I want to see Apple doing is to be creating and building great and amazing products. Them "bringing jobs here" is of little concern to me.

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post #27 of 63
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Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

So reading between the lines, Tim Cook did not like Forstall and Forstall was incredibly political, basically building his own fiefdom within Apple and that's no-go with Cook.

 

No need to read between the lines:

 

"And there can’t be politics. I despise politics. There is no room for it in a company. My life is going to be way too short to deal with that. No bureaucracy. We want this fast-moving, agile company where there are no politics, no agendas.

 

When you do that, things become pretty simple. You don’t have all of these distractions. You don’t have all of these things that companies generally worry about. You don’t have silos built up where everybody is trying to optimize their silo and figuring out how to grab turf and all of these things. It makes all of our jobs easier so we’re freed up to focus on the things that truly matter."

post #28 of 63
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

But not if all they're doing is building robotic factories that have a few people maintaining the robots.

 

Few! Ha. Not town-fulls, but not few.

 

Which will be done when it makes economic sense to do so. I don't rally care. But then, I don't have the same fetish some have about jobs being performed in certain specific geographical areas. I suspect it will depend on the affect investors believe that move will have on the company's future profits and valuation. The main thing I want to see Apple doing is to be creating and building great and amazing products. Them "bringing jobs here" is of little concern to me.

 

Yep, yep.

 

And you were accusing me of uttering "complete nonsense" above. 1rolleyes.gif lol.gif

 

Yeah, no one ever lies about Apple in the news.

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post #29 of 63
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Originally Posted by nht View Post

No need to read between the lines:

"And there can’t be politics. I despise politics. There is no room for it in a company. My life is going to be way too short to deal with that. No bureaucracy. We want this fast-moving, agile company where there are no politics, no agendas.

When you do that, things become pretty simple. You don’t have all of these distractions. You don’t have all of these things that companies generally worry about. You don’t have silos built up where everybody is trying to optimize their silo and figuring out how to grab turf and all of these things. It makes all of our jobs easier so we’re freed up to focus on the things that truly matter."


So I think it's safe to say Steven Sinofsky will never be working at Apple. lol.gif
post #30 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

As far as I'm aware, this is the very first time we've heard anything this explicit about Ive's new role and I find this comment absolutely alarming.  it remains to be seen what talents Ive has in software design, but one thing is for certain .. he has absolutely no actual qualifications in that area.  

 

As a former designer myself, I can say that no one in the design field would ever make the assumption that Cook is apparently making here.  Skill at 3D design or industrial design simply does not equate to skill in 2D design, production design, or software design.  They are completely different things.  

 

Perhaps there is more to it than is apparent from Cook's comments, but if (as seems apparent) he is basically saying, "Well, Jony is great at designing the hardware so we thought we'd put him in charge of the look and feel of the software too."  then Apple could easily be making a horrible mistake here.  

 

Taste is not universal.  You can be an excellent Industrial designer and still be a wearer of ugly sweaters who likes to watch "Family Guy."  Let's hope that against all odds, Jony Ive turns out to be a world leader at something he's never even been trained for.  The odds are against it however. 

 

Hyperbole much?  What formal qualifications did Jobs have as a designer?  

 

Cook is correct in that the UI and the physical design goes hand in hand...and it's hard to do excellent User Experience with two teams working to the tune of two different conductors.

 

They aren't asking him to code for god's sake.

post #31 of 63
The more interviews Tim does, the more I see why Steve made him CEO.

"You know? I don’t want to work with people I don’t like. Life is too short. So you do become friends. Life has too few friends."

I don't like when he apologizes for things so much but I really like the character that comes through in the interview. It's not often we see someone with his values and morals in his position and the world would be a better place if we did.

This is an interesting one:

"We don’t subscribe to the vision that the OS for iPhones and iPads should be the same as Mac."

I'd have liked to see a touch iMac and they have a patent for it so they've obviously considered it. That requires the UI to have a lot in common. It's unlikely that one UI will work for every usage scenario though.

I'm on board with the collaboration agenda but I think there needs to be caution over just getting people with a better track record. Having a track record doesn't let you win tomorrow's race. Putting the iCloud and App Store teams on Siri and Maps isn't a guarantee for 'fixing' them. I regularly get 'could not connect to the iTunes Store' messages but I accept that networks have intermittent problems. They shouldn't beat themselves up about Maps and Siri - the media and competition are always going to chisel away at whatever cracks they can find because it's in their best interests to do it. Apologizing just validates it and in many cases is unjustified.
post #32 of 63
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post
"We don’t subscribe to the vision that the OS for iPhones and iPads should be the same as Mac."
I'd have liked to see a touch iMac and they have a patent for it so they've obviously considered it. That requires the UI to have a lot in common. It's unlikely that one UI will work for every usage scenario though.

 

Nor will it be! Heck, the iPhone and iPad don't have the same UI. The iPhone and iPod nano don't have the same UI. But they're all touch. Different things work better in different places. There will be a multitouch, mouseless Mac. But it won't run "iOS".

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post #33 of 63
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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Few! Ha. Not town-fulls, but not few.

 

Well, it is unlikely to be a lot. Those jobs are just gone. But that's okay. There are other, different jobs.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Yeah, no one ever lies about Apple in the news.

 

I was responding to the idea of Apple single-handedly lowering the unemployment rate by such an amount or even (allowing for exaggeration for effect) any measurable amount. But, yes, I agree that despite the many great things Apple does, someone always find a nit to pick.

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post #34 of 63
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Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post


Totally agree! Tim, don't go soft on us! And for god'a sake, DO NOT BRING MANUFACTURING TO THE US!!!!! You have a fiduciary duty to your stockholders that says DON'T DO IT!!!!!

 

I totally disagree. This will greatly increase the appeal of Apple's, which is already incredibly valuable, but has been under fire for it's manufacturing practices as of late. A manufacturer bringing manufacturing jobs back to the USA!!!! That's going to greatly increase their appeal. 

post #35 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post


Totally agree! Tim, don't go soft on us! And for god'a sake, DO NOT BRING MANUFACTURING TO THE US!!!!! You have a fiduciary duty to your stockholders that says DON'T DO IT!!!!!

 

How patriotic of you — putting money before country, and individual gain for a few over the shared interest of the whole community. Let's see how much cheerleading you do for wealthy stockholders when your job disappears overseas so that they can make incrementally more money than they already have. (CNN: "About 46% of dividends awarded in 2010 went to investors in the top 1%, according to a Tax Policy Center analysis.")

 

Besides, several Apple and Foxconn executives have already said that the chief advantage of assembling overseas is not cost, but of the availability and flexibility of large numbers of engineers. But you maybe you don't read (or retain) articles that contradict to your apparent Ayn Rand / "profit über alles" worldview.

 

The kool-aid is strong in this one ...


Edited by Beezlegrunk - 12/7/12 at 12:46pm
post #36 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

Possibly. I don't know. But I thought the whole "build it in America" fetishists were all about employing people in America to build things.

 

Yeah, 'cause wanting a job is a "fetish" — I guess that makes you a fetishist, unless you inherited all of your money ...

post #37 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beezlegrunk View Post

 

Yeah, 'cause wanting a job is a "fetish" — I guess that makes you a fetishist, unless you inherited all of your money ...

 

1oyvey.gif 1bugeye.gif

 

Ooooh...how clever...you turned what I did say into something I didn't say in order to make a point. In the trade we call that a straw man.

 

1rolleyes.gif

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #38 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mynameisjoe View Post

I totally disagree. This will greatly increase the appeal of Apple's, which is already incredibly valuable, but has been under fire for it's manufacturing practices as of late. A manufacturer bringing manufacturing jobs back to the USA!!!! That's going to greatly increase their appeal. 

 

Maybe.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #39 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

As far as I'm aware, this is the very first time we've heard anything this explicit about Ive's new role and I find this comment absolutely alarming.  it remains to be seen what talents Ive has in software design, but one thing is for certain .. he has absolutely no actual qualifications in that area.  

 

As a former designer myself, I can say that no one in the design field would ever make the assumption that Cook is apparently making here.  Skill at 3D design or industrial design simply does not equate to skill in 2D design, production design, or software design.  They are completely different things.  

 

Perhaps there is more to it than is apparent from Cook's comments, but if (as seems apparent) he is basically saying, "Well, Jony is great at designing the hardware so we thought we'd put him in charge of the look and feel of the software too."  then Apple could easily be making a horrible mistake here.  

 

Taste is not universal.  You can be an excellent Industrial designer and still be a wearer of ugly sweaters who likes to watch "Family Guy."  Let's hope that against all odds, Jony Ive turns out to be a world leader at something he's never even been trained for.  The odds are against it however. 

 

Your comment makes sense to me, intuitively.  But please give a concrete example of how 3D and 2D design requires different sets of skills, so that I can understand your point better.

post #40 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beezlegrunk View Post

But you maybe you don't read (or retain) articles that contradict to your apparent Ayn Rand / "profit über alles" worldview.

 

Interesting that you try to insult someone for adhering to what you perceive as an Ayn Randian worldview while spouting what is clearly your own Marxist/socialist worldview.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beezlegrunk View Post

 

How patriotic of you...

 

The kool-aid is strong in this one ...

 

Funny that you speak of "kool-aid" drinking while mocking someone's (lack of) "patriotism."
 

How very ironic of you. Was all that intentional?


Edited by MJ1970 - 12/6/12 at 12:43pm

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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