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Apple's recent executive shakeup was about 'collaboration,' Tim Cook says - Page 2

post #41 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

As far as I'm aware, this is the very first time we've heard anything this explicit about Ive's new role and I find this comment absolutely alarming.  it remains to be seen what talents Ive has in software design, but one thing is for certain .. he has absolutely no actual qualifications in that area.  

 

As a former designer myself, I can say that no one in the design field would ever make the assumption that Cook is apparently making here.  Skill at 3D design or industrial design simply does not equate to skill in 2D design, production design, or software design.  They are completely different things.  

 

Perhaps there is more to it than is apparent from Cook's comments, but if (as seems apparent) he is basically saying, "Well, Jony is great at designing the hardware so we thought we'd put him in charge of the look and feel of the software too."  then Apple could easily be making a horrible mistake here.  

 

Taste is not universal.  You can be an excellent Industrial designer and still be a wearer of ugly sweaters who likes to watch "Family Guy."  Let's hope that against all odds, Jony Ive turns out to be a world leader at something he's never even been trained for.  The odds are against it however. 

history proves you wrong in so many ways.  Some of the most brilliant designers in history were not trained in their specified field, and many went on to do innovative work in other fields of design as well.

 

Look at Frank Lloyd Wright.  Some call him the "Greatest American Architect".  He was self taught and designed some of the most innovative and creative work of his breed.  He designed buildings, but also 2D art as well, like wall hangings, stained glass, rugs, and various other graphic arts.  He also design furniture and even table settings.

 

Look at the Eames'.  Charles was an architect by training, but went on to design some of the most innovative furniture in the 20th century.   His group also did film and games and home accessories and Graphic design.

 

It takes a special type of Eye for design to make a truly great designer, one that can think about design from every genre.  I have no doubt Team Ives has that talent. Not to mention 20 years nearly of experience leading and collaborating at Apple.  I have no doubt he will be great.

post #42 of 63
Tim realizes, like the Auto Industry that manufacturing is best served in a globally distributed arrangement with local presence in your major regions of sales.
post #43 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Tim realizes, like the Auto Industry that manufacturing is best served in a globally distributed arrangement with local presence in your major regions of sales.

 

That may be true in the automobile industry where you have three things that are quite different from Apple's industry:

 

  1. A product that is much larger and more expensive to transport.
  2. A product that is often much more tuned to local markets for cultural as well as regulatory reasons.
  3. A product that is often subject to various tariffs and import restrictions.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #44 of 63

Is it true that collaboration fosters innovation?

 

Historically, the really groundbreaking innovation has come from individuals. Turning such innovations into products is where teamwork is critical

post #45 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Tim realizes, like the Auto Industry that manufacturing is best served in a globally distributed arrangement with local presence in your major regions of sales.


Is auto manufacturing really best served by local presence? What if there was no legal requirement to have XX% of a car made in the US? Do you think Honda, Toyota, etc. would have so many factories here? Sure, shipping costs are a factor. But it doesn't cost much to ship from Central America.

post #46 of 63
Ok
post #47 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Tim realizes, like the Auto Industry that manufacturing is best served in a globally distributed arrangement with local presence in your major regions of sales.

That may be true in the automobile industry where you have three things that are quite different from Apple's industry:
  1. A product that is much larger and more expensive to transport.
  2. A product that is often much more tuned to local markets for cultural as well as regulatory reasons.
  3. A product that is often subject to various tariffs and import restrictions.

Number 3 definitely applied to Apple's industry in Brazil.
post #48 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

Is it true that collaboration fosters innovation?

Historically, the really groundbreaking innovation has come from individuals. Turning such innovations into products is where teamwork is critical
My guesses Cook is referring more to not allowing fiefdoms or silos at the top. Perhaps Forstall was like Sinofsky trying to create an iOS empire whether it benefited Apple as whole or not. But my guess is he was just abrasive and didn't get along with Cook or the other execs. Maybe he felt he should've been top dog because he was the leader behind iOS and iPhone/iPad are Apple's biggest products. But it seems to me if Steve felt that way he would've recommended Forstall replace him, not Cook.
post #49 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

D Conference and other snippets here and there, and many Apple events.

OMG Steve Jobs spoke at D like 4 times while CEO, not to mention dozens of interviews over the years with mainstream media, and collaborating with a biographer! And you think Tim Cook is talking too much?

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #50 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by quinney View Post


Number 3 definitely applied to Apple's industry in Brazil.

 

Understood. And this might become more widespread. Governments hate freedom after all. But this is the exception to the rule at this point in time. Certainly as compared with the auto industry.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #51 of 63
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post
…Tim Cook is talking too much?

 

I think that's a weird picture. That comment doesn't fit in anywhere else, but I guess one could make the connection that the less he talks, the fewer pictures are taken of him. lol.gif

Originally Posted by asdasd

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Originally Posted by asdasd

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post #52 of 63
Tim said something interesting in this Bloomberg interview:

"That’s a part of our base principle, that we will only do a few things. And we’ll only do things where we can make a significant contribution I don’t mean financially. I mean some significant contribution to the society at large. You know, we want to really enrich people’s lives at the end of the day, not just make money. Making money might be a byproduct, but it’s not our North Star."

I remember when Jony Ive said something similar earlier this year (basically that Apple was about making great products and if people like them and buy them then Apple will make money). At the time he said it people laughed and said it was a ridiculous statement. Well, well, well here we have Tim Cook basically saying the same thing. Though I suppose some will laugh at Cook too thinking all Apple cares about is making boatloads of money,
post #53 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

I think he's trying to do something about the irrational stock price drop.

 

But... but... but... Tallest insists that Apple doesn't CARE about the stock price.

post #54 of 63
Originally Posted by v5v View Post
But... but... but... Tallest insists that Apple doesn't CARE about the stock price.

 

What's your point? They've specifically stated this on more than one occasion. If you have any reason to believe they expressly care about the stock price to the detriment of the products they sell, feel free to present it. Otherwise there's not much point in what you've said here.

Originally Posted by asdasd

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Originally Posted by asdasd

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post #55 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

What's your point? They've specifically stated this on more than one occasion. If you have any reason to believe they expressly care about the stock price to the detriment of the products they sell, feel free to present it. Otherwise there's not much point in what you've said here.

 

Please see the post to which I responded. The point is perfectly clear. Over and out.

post #56 of 63
Gazoobee, you need to relax. I'm sure Ive is part of the team not the designer of software.
post #57 of 63
Something very fishy about Tim Cook recently.
post #58 of 63
Originally Posted by sr2012 View Post
Something very fishy about Tim Cook recently.

 

What would THAT be, exactly?

Originally Posted by asdasd

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Originally Posted by asdasd

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post #59 of 63
Quote:

Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

 

The main thing I want to see Apple doing is to be creating and building great and amazing products. Them "bringing jobs here" is of little concern to me.

 

... because you either already have a job, or a spouse/partner who has one, or are independently wealthy — but a lot of people need jobs to live. And thus the idea of creating more work in America is not some kind of "fetish" that people have, but a serious daily need for their survival and a means of helping to improve the overall economy.

 

It is the height of myopic self-interest to not understand that, and to be so utterly unsympathetic to people who are unemployed, simply because you personally don't need a job (right now). Some day you could need one, and not be able to find it (especially if you were born in 1970), because of people like yourself who don't care about the plight of others. Then we'll see whether "bringing jobs here" is of any concern to you ...

post #60 of 63
Originally Posted by Beezlegrunk View Post
... because you either already have a job, or a spouse/partner who has one, or are independently wealthy — but a lot of people need jobs to live.

 

Not in the United States.

Originally Posted by asdasd

This is Appleinsider. It's all there for you but we can't do it for you.
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Originally Posted by asdasd

This is Appleinsider. It's all there for you but we can't do it for you.
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post #61 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

As far as I'm aware, this is the very first time we've heard anything this explicit about Ive's new role and I find this comment absolutely alarming.  it remains to be seen what talents Ive has in software design, but one thing is for certain .. he has absolutely no actual qualifications in that area.  

 

As a former designer myself, I can say that no one in the design field would ever make the assumption that Cook is apparently making here.  Skill at 3D design or industrial design simply does not equate to skill in 2D design, production design, or software design.  They are completely different things.  

 

Perhaps there is more to it than is apparent from Cook's comments, but if (as seems apparent) he is basically saying, "Well, Jony is great at designing the hardware so we thought we'd put him in charge of the look and feel of the software too."  then Apple could easily be making a horrible mistake here.  

 

Taste is not universal.  You can be an excellent Industrial designer and still be a wearer of ugly sweaters who likes to watch "Family Guy."  Let's hope that against all odds, Jony Ive turns out to be a world leader at something he's never even been trained for.  The odds are against it however. 

 

Ive is taking over MANAGEMENT of software design not designing the software. Neither did Jobs. Good taste is what a good designer brings to the table. Of course, I also suspect he personally didn't design the 3D either. Early on, yes, but he has been managing that design group and asking the questions, pushing, etc. I see no problem here.

post #62 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beezlegrunk View Post

... because you either already have a job, or a spouse/partner who has one, or are independently wealthy...

 

Stop this nonsense already.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beezlegrunk View Post

...but a lot of people need jobs to live.

 

Including me.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beezlegrunk View Post

And thus the idea of creating more work in America is not some kind of "fetish" that people have, but a serious daily need for their survival and a means of helping to improve the overall economy.

 

No the fetish is about specific kinds of jobs, in this case manufacturing jobs. There are tons of jobs in the US.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beezlegrunk View Post

It is the height of myopic self-interest to not understand that, and to be so utterly unsympathetic to people who are unemployed, simply because you personally don't need a job (right now).

 

I do understand. I'm not unsympathetic to those who are unemployed. My position has nothing to do whether I currently have a job or not. 

 

Your analysis is quite simplistic, superficial and short-sighted.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beezlegrunk View Post

Some day you could need one, and not be able to find it (especially if you were born in 1970), because of people like yourself who don't care about the plight of others. Then we'll see whether "bringing jobs here" is of any concern to you ...

 

If I can't find a job it will be not be for these reasons.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #63 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

Ive is taking over MANAGEMENT of software design not designing the software. Neither did Jobs. Good taste is what a good designer brings to the table. Of course, I also suspect he personally didn't design the 3D either. Early on, yes, but he has been managing that design group and asking the questions, pushing, etc. I see no problem here.

I reckon Jony Ive can still do some mean stuff a few hours hands-on in front of the computer using his favourite 3D program.
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