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Apple and Google reportedly partners in $500M bid for Kodak patents

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
Despite ongoing legal struggles with Google subsidiary Motorola, Apple has reportedly teamed up with the internet search giant to offer a bid for Kodak patents worth over $500 million.

Kodak


On Friday, Bloomberg cited two people familiar with Kodak's ongoing bankruptcy proceedings who claim Apple and Google have become partners in a grab for 1,100 patents owned by the erstwhile photography monolith. Sources say the Apple-Google consortium was behind a bid placed a bid earlier this week.

When bidding first started, the companies led two separate teams, with Apple's consortium including Microsoft and patent holdings firm Intellectual Ventures, while Google joined up with RPX Corp. and a number of Asian handset manufacturers. At the time, it was thought that HTC and Samsung were part of Google's team.

Kodak patent
Source: USPTO


Before the imaging patent auction began in August, Kodak estimated the value of its portfolio to fall between $2.2 and $2.6 billion, though the first round of bids were reportedly in the range of $150 million to $250 million. Under the terms of Kodak's $793 million loan agreement, the winning bid for the portfolio must not be lower than $500 million.

Interestingly, Kodak previously leveraged patents in a suit against Apple and HTC, as well as an ITC case against Apple and RIM, as a last-ditch effort to stay afloat. Apple subsequently took action and sued Kodak after claiming ownership of ten patents related to the QuickTake camera, which was a cooperative project between the two companies. A judge ultimately ordered the Cupertino, Calif., company to halt current and future litigation so the bankruptcy proceedings could continue.

In November, sources claimed both Apple and Google remained interested in the patent cache, and Kodak said it was "confident" that the minimum woud be reached.
post #2 of 24
Apple should just use that huge cash hoard to buy patents from anywhere and everywhere so no asses can continue to buy up a patent and then sue others like these patent trolls. I find that a great investment. They could license them free or for a penny but atleast they would be out of the hands of the patent trolls and would add more value to the company's stock price.
post #3 of 24

This is another reason why I think Tim Cook should grow a pair and just take some of that cash hoard and buy all those patents on their own.  What's the big deal?  Apple would generate that $500 million back in less than a month's time.  This is one of the reasons why Apple is treated with absolutely no respect on Wall Street and why Android is walking all over Apple.  Apple needs to take all the patents it can and just kneecap Google. Wall Street favors Google for everything, so screw them.  With Apple just sitting back and letting all its rivals take everything, Apple shareholders are going to end up in deep doo-doo.  Screw trying to play the nice guy.  Wall Street eats nice guys for lunch.  If I'm going to get screwed as a shareholder because I'm not getting any of that reserve cash, then Google shareholders should feel some pain, too.  But no, Apple shareholders are going to take a solitary reaming because Tim Cook wants to be sweet.  Eff that!  Google spent $12.5 billion of its own money on Motorola but at least it got something back and the stock went up quite a bit.  Nothing Apple buys ever moves the stock upward, only down.

 

This whole story is probably just a rumor but I need to vent to relieve my frustration from Apple's continued loss of share value.

post #4 of 24
It's a rumor, but I doubt Apple wants to be a sole proprietor in hording tech patents. It silences legal claims and puts Kodak's patents on the shelf.
post #5 of 24
$500M? Why didn't they sell them before they went bankrupt, to keep going?
post #6 of 24

It's not an entirely new story. I myself mentioned a rumored Apple and Google partnership to bid on these weeks ago, and I knew from an article printed weeks before that back in Sept or earlier.


Edited by Gatorguy - 12/8/12 at 4:36am
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post #7 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

This is another reason why I think Tim Cook should grow a pair and just take some of that cash hoard and buy all those patents on their own.  What's the big deal?  Apple would generate that $500 million back in less than a month's time.

Sure about that? And what if they got sued and the USPTO decided on a whim to "preliminarily" reject the patent at question? Naaaa?! Never happen...oh...uh...hmm.
Quote:
This is one of the reasons why Apple is treated with absolutely no respect on Wall Street and why Android is walking all over Apple
.

Wrong again. The reason why Apple is getting beat up on WS is because they have to continue to hit product home-runs and only home-runs to win the game... well at least to keep their certain level of s(t)ock 1biggrin.gif price. You see. Apple doesn't make very much money i.e. profits from services to justify their stock price. Google... the bloody suckers... only make money on services i.e. ads sold. That's called a steady income and trending upward due to their "supposed" dominance in mobil search and services. Although, it still hasn't been broken down correctly, and last statistics I've seen, puts ~57% of mobile revenue in Google's pockets from iOS devices. But yes: it is in Google's and not Apple's pockets is what counts (on WS).
Quote:
Apple needs to take all the patents it can and just kneecap Google. Wall Street favors Google for everything, so screw them.  With Apple just sitting back and letting all its rivals take everything, Apple shareholders are going to end up in deep doo-doo.  Screw trying to play the nice guy.  Wall Street eats nice guys for lunch.  If I'm going to get screwed as a shareholder because I'm not getting any of that reserve cash, then Google shareholders should feel some pain, too.  But no, Apple shareholders are going to take a solitary reaming because Tim Cook wants to be sweet.  Eff that!  Google spent $12.5 billion of its own money on Motorola but at least it got something back and the stock went up quite a bit.  Nothing Apple buys ever moves the stock upward, only down.

See the first reply above. No guarantee that those patents will be worth anything in the future. So the better bet is to spread the wealth and the risk, and lock in clauses not to sue each other in the consortium. See MPEG-LA. Seems to be working, and even caused Google to rethink WebM, or at least consider H264 first rather than second priority.
Quote:
This whole story is probably just a rumor but I need to vent to relieve my frustration from Apple's continued loss of share value.

OK. I'll "buy" that retail, no options 1cool.gif

Edited: for readability and humor. "Sock" price is seasonal misspelling... or "in the mouth"... however you look at it... funny!1biggrin.gif
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Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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post #8 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

.....  If I'm going to get screwed as a shareholder because I'm not getting any of that reserve cash, then Google shareholders should feel some pain, too. ..... 

 

 

At the beginning of the year, Apple was at $411 and change .... today it's at $533 and change. Yeah, I can see why you think you're being screwed. Me thinks you should stay out of the stock market because, as we all know, the market doesn't reward stupidity.

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post #9 of 24
Originally Posted by djkikrome View Post
Apple should just use that huge cash hoard to buy patents from anywhere and everywhere so no asses can continue to buy up a patent and then sue others like these patent trolls.

 

Patents are useless. Patents are meaningless. Doesn't matter if you did all the work, doesn't matter if you did no work. They are worth less than a blank sheet of paper.

Originally posted by Marvin

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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #10 of 24
@Constable Odo: I worry about your health (and I am not being facetious).
If owning a stock causes you this much anxiety, you need to seriously consider if the cost/benefit to your life is on the positive side.
post #11 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

This is another reason why I think Tim Cook should grow a pair and just take some of that cash hoard and buy all those patents on their own.  What's the big deal?  Apple would generate that $500 million back in less than a month's time.  This is one of the reasons why Apple is treated with absolutely no respect on Wall Street and why Android is walking all over Apple.  Apple needs to take all the patents it can and just kneecap Google. Wall Street favors Google for everything, so screw them.  With Apple just sitting back and letting all its rivals take everything, Apple shareholders are going to end up in deep doo-doo.  Screw trying to play the nice guy.  Wall Street eats nice guys for lunch.  If I'm going to get screwed as a shareholder because I'm not getting any of that reserve cash, then Google shareholders should feel some pain, too.  But no, Apple shareholders are going to take a solitary reaming because Tim Cook wants to be sweet.  Eff that!  Google spent $12.5 billion of its own money on Motorola but at least it got something back and the stock went up quite a bit.  Nothing Apple buys ever moves the stock upward, only down.

This whole story is probably just a rumor but I need to vent to relieve my frustration from Apple's continued loss of share value.

This is all just wrong. Let's examine what you've suggested....

  • Increased revenue, profits, and mindshare are pointless and longterm share price increases are pointless f you don't have Wall Street fawning over you.
  • Apple should pay $500 million for patents even if there is no way they could benefit their bottom line by that much.
  • Google was smart to spend to $12.5 billion for Motorola despite putting them in the hole because in the short term their stock went up a little after the sale.
  • Tim Cook is a pussy despite continuing the protective path Steve Jobs started and the continuing domination of every market they are in.

Do that about sum it up?
Edited by SolipsismX - 12/8/12 at 12:08pm

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post #12 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

This is another reason why I think Tim Cook should grow a pair and just take some of that cash hoard and buy all those patents on their own.  What's the big deal?  Apple would generate that $500 million back in less than a month's time.  This is one of the reasons why Apple is treated with absolutely no respect on Wall Street and why Android is walking all over Apple.  Apple needs to take all the patents it can and just kneecap Google. Wall Street favors Google for everything, so screw them.  With Apple just sitting back and letting all its rivals take everything, Apple shareholders are going to end up in deep doo-doo.  Screw trying to play the nice guy.  Wall Street eats nice guys for lunch.  If I'm going to get screwed as a shareholder because I'm not getting any of that reserve cash, then Google shareholders should feel some pain, too.  But no, Apple shareholders are going to take a solitary reaming because Tim Cook wants to be sweet.  Eff that!  Google spent $12.5 billion of its own money on Motorola but at least it got something back and the stock went up quite a bit.  Nothing Apple buys ever moves the stock upward, only down.

 

This whole story is probably just a rumor but I need to vent to relieve my frustration from Apple's continued loss of share value.

 

But AAPL is still up 42% YTD even with the pullback. That's what gets me. The media are reporting this as if Apple is imploding to non existence. The stock could go down another 20% and still be worth more than it was 1/1/12.

post #13 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

$500M? Why didn't they sell them before they went bankrupt, to keep going?

I believe they tried, but wanted a couple billion at the time. This is like a fire sale now...

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #14 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


This is all just wrong. Let's examine what you've suggested....
  • Increased revenue, profits, and mindshare are pointless and longterm share price increases are pointless f you don't have Wall Street fawning over you.
  • Apple should pay $500 million for patents even if there is no way they could benefit their bottom line by that much.
  • Google was smart to spend to $12.5 billion for Motorola despite putting them in the hole because in the short term their stock went up a little after the sale.
  • Tim Cook is a pussy despite continuing the protective path Steve Jobs stated and the continuing domination of every market they are in.
Do that about sum it up?

I think you pretty well nailed it.

 

Too many people lack the maturity to see that pile of money and want to burn through it like a new lottery winner instead of continuing to think and act more conservatively as Apple has done.

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #15 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

It's a rumor, but I doubt Apple wants to be a sole proprietor in hording tech patents. It silences legal claims and puts Kodak's patents on the shelf.

Remember those Nortel patents that Apple and a consortum, including Microsoft, bought up a couple years back? Apple went on to buy out the other owners.

 

It was reported that Tim Cooks maniacal laugh could be heard reverberating down the corporate halls, "It's MINE, all MINE, Bhawhahahaha...!"

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #16 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

It's not an entirely new story. I myself mentioned a rumored Apple and Google partnership to bid on these weeks ago, and I knew from an article printed weeks before that back in Sept or earlier.

 

Back in August.

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Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #17 of 24

Thanks Hill!

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post #18 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

It's a rumor, but I doubt Apple wants to be a sole proprietor in hording tech patents. It silences legal claims and puts Kodak's patents on the shelf.

 

How long until the government comes after Apple on bogus collusion charges? 3...2...1...

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #19 of 24
Keep your friends close, but your enemies...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

This is another reason why I think Tim Cook should grow a pair and just take some of that cash hoard and buy all those patents on their own. What's the big deal? Apple would generate that $500 million back in less than a month's time. This is one of the reasons why Apple is treated with absolutely no respect on Wall Street and why Android is walking all over Apple. Apple needs to take all the patents it can and just kneecap Google. Wall Street favors Google for everything, so screw them. With Apple just sitting back and letting all its rivals take everything, Apple shareholders are going to end up in deep doo-doo. Screw trying to play the nice guy. Wall Street eats nice guys for lunch. If I'm going to get screwed as a shareholder because I'm not getting any of that reserve cash, then Google shareholders should feel some pain, too. But no, Apple shareholders are going to take a solitary reaming because Tim Cook wants to be sweet. Eff that! Google spent $12.5 billion of its own money on Motorola but at least it got something back and the stock went up quite a bit. Nothing Apple buys ever moves the stock upward, only down.

This whole story is probably just a rumor but I need to vent to relieve my frustration from Apple's continued loss of share value.

It's not something just personal, I empathise with your concern about what's happening with AAPL and Apple. The thing is that during Steve Jobs' oversight, we could "stomach" a variety of things, because, well, Steve Jobs and the team at Apple were truly changing the world.

If Tim Cook does not show such "uniqueness" as well then we are sort of in a no-man's-land where Apple is still "different" but "not-that-different".

So Apple has to find its feet, as it were, and decides whether to think ~somewhat different~, ~quite different~, ~different~ or ~very different~.

As for Wall Street the whole US monetary system is a defunct Ponzi scheme so I'd get out ASAP, buy Gold, Silver and Renminbi, etc.
post #20 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

I think you pretty well nailed it.

Too many people lack the maturity to see that pile of money and want to burn through it like a new lottery winner instead of continuing to think and act more conservatively as Apple has done.

Exactly. In fact, Apple's care with how they are spending their cash is VERY good news for investors. It would be easy to go on a spending spree, but they continue to manage their cash to ensure that they're only spending it on useful things rather than every little whim that rolls along. That's a sign of very mature management.
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Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #21 of 24
This whole situation kinda bugs me.

Apple and Kodak have a dispute about digital imaging patents they developed together in the 1990s. The Judge halts that lawsuit until Kodak can emerge from bankruptcy.

Kodak is getting a bankruptcy $793 million loan, on condition that Kodak can sell its patents for $500 million. I haven't read any where discussing if the disputed patent is excluded or not.

It doesn't make sense that the court would allow Kodak to sell a disputed patent. You would think that a court would want clarity on ownership of all the patents being sold. If I recall, this is two different courts/judges and the civil patent dispute judge is yielding to the bankruptcy court?

Apple would have to start a new lawsuit against a new potential owner of the disputed patent. This seems like a waste of court resources although that may be null if Apple ends up being one of the new patent pool owners.
post #22 of 24
I recall suggesting Apple buy Kodak a few years back when their market cap was $80 - 100 million. Back then I thought the Kodak brand was still worth something.
post #23 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stourque View Post

I recall suggesting Apple buy Kodak a few years back when their market cap was $80 - 100 million. Back then I thought the Kodak brand was still worth something.

But how much was their debt? The $500 million bid could be less than when you factor that against their, then, market cap.

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post #24 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spacepower View Post

This whole situation kinda bugs me.
Apple and Kodak have a dispute about digital imaging patents they developed together in the 1990s. The Judge halts that lawsuit until Kodak can emerge from bankruptcy.
Kodak is getting a bankruptcy $793 million loan, on condition that Kodak can sell its patents for $500 million. I haven't read any where discussing if the disputed patent is excluded or not.
It doesn't make sense that the court would allow Kodak to sell a disputed patent. You would think that a court would want clarity on ownership of all the patents being sold. If I recall, this is two different courts/judges and the civil patent dispute judge is yielding to the bankruptcy court?
Apple would have to start a new lawsuit against a new potential owner of the disputed patent. This seems like a waste of court resources although that may be null if Apple ends up being one of the new patent pool owners.

The above is a very good point. The ~question~ is how much is that disputed patent worth? If it is less than, say $50 million (excluding damages and what not) then those interested would rather Kodak sell of what it can and then work out the rest somehow.

On Apple's part it would be interesting, again to see how much that disputed patent is worth. If the disputed patent was a $200 million argy-bargy thing then yes, this would be a big issue working out who gets what.

Dead companies can be more toxic than we imagine, perhaps.

In Apple and Google's case, regardless, they want to get as much of the portfolio as possible. Sure, they don't "need" Google but this gives Apple and Google a huge chunk of patents for whatever their purposes, and prevents Apple and Google competing against each other for them because that will just be another huge legal mess.

So it's not about money, it's to prevent unwanted conflict between Apple and Google because no matter what they are close bedfellows this decade and perhaps beyond.

Of course The Man might step in and say it's collusive, anti-competitive, monopolistic or who-knows-what.
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