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post #121 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


And, yet, you haven't provided any evidence that it's inferior. The few side-by-side comparisons that have been done show it to be at least comparable.
So where's all the evidence to back your claim that it's inferior?
That's not what Cook said. His apology said that he was sorry that Maps failed to meet users' expectations. That is not an admission that the product doesn't work. But feel free to point out anywhere that Cook said the application was defective. Specifically, he said:
Failing to make the "best experience possible" does not mean the product is defective. In fact, it's a completely meaningless phrase. Even if you take the best mapping system on the market and improve it by 300%, it would STILL not be the "best experience possible". This reads very much like the kind of apology you give your wife when she's complaining about something stupid "I'm sorry that you're upset."


Really....

"That's not what Cook said. His apology said that he was sorry that Maps failed to meet users' expectations. That is not an admission that the product doesn't work. But feel free to point out anywhere that Cook said the application was defective."

 

So what was users expectation then?

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post #122 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Sorry, but there are two options:
1. Live your life believing every whinefest thrown at you by the media and accept all the whining (or praise!) as gospel truth.
2. Choose to believe factual evidence when it is presented and remain skeptical of claims that are not supported by evidence.

+1

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post #123 of 498
'Tards always need someone to blame for anything that goes wrong in THEIR life.
post #124 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Eddy has a lot on his plate with iTunes, iCloud, App Store, iBooks, and now Siri and Maps. They need to go on a hiring spree and really beef up their maps teams. If they really want to be a player in the navigation space that's where some of their $100B needs to go.

You assume that the issue is Apple. They get a huge chunk of their town and driving data from outside sources like TomTom. This could be a case of THAT source giving them corrupted data. How would they know this up front unless they sent folks out to every possible location in the world and if they were going to do that then why use TomTom at all.

So Apple ends up in the dumps no matter what. Either they deal with possible bad data when they are informed about it. Or they map it all themselves and we would have gotten another 5 years or so without Turn by Turn in the built in app because Google wasn't giving it up.

And what about the governments. The issues with iOS Maps have been very well advertised. Knowing how important it would be for folks to have accurate maps why didn't NSW, Vic etc offer their map data to Apple for verifying and updating the system, same as what China did.

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post #125 of 498
I would hope someone contacted Apple directly, either through the app, via e-mail or by phone to let them know about this. I just checked the location of Mildura on my phone this morning and it is still incorrectly located. I would think Apple would spank this problem immediately. Bad PR.
post #126 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post


Really....
"That's not what Cook said. His apology said that he was sorry that Maps failed to meet users' expectations. That is not an admission that the product doesn't work. But feel free to point out anywhere that Cook said the application was defective."

So what was users expectation then?

The sentence before that one answered the question. He said that the customers expected "the best experience possible" and Apple Maps didn't provide it. That's a tautology. NO product provides "the best experience possible".

Again, it reads very much like an apology you'd give to your wife when you know she doesn't have any rational complaint: "I'm sorry you're upset".

But feel free to point out any wording in Tim's letter that supports your claim that the program is defective. While you're at it, how about some evidence that it's worse than the alternatives?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtDecoDalek View Post

If you search for Mildura Australia, Apple Maps does indeed give you a location in the middle of a national park. But, it's pretty obvious that the location given is in the middle of a national park with no mapped roads leading in and out. That should probably give someone pause before heading out.
Also, if you put in an actual address in Mildura, rather than just the town's name, it gives the correct location.

Which makes it seem more likely to me that the entire thing is a set up foisted by one of Apple's competitors.
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post #127 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

And what about the governments. The issues with iOS Maps have been very well advertised. Knowing how important it would be for folks to have accurate maps why didn't NSW, Vic etc offer their map data to Apple for verifying and updating the system, same as what China did.

I don't think Apple had a choice there. The Chinese government controls what maps are permitted. If China doesn't want regions, roads or directions shown for particular areas that's the way it is. That's why TT can't offer their own maps for China. AFAIK they had to partner with a government-approved map provider to even offer navigation devices for sale there. Apple had to do the same. 

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post #128 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Search for them online.
There was one done in the SF Bay area which showed Apple Maps to be superior. One in Canada was roughly a wash. And a couple in China showed Apple Maps to be better.
Besides, I'm not the one claiming that Apple Maps is inferior. I'm simply pointing out that no one has yet provided evidence to support that claim.

 

No, you're claiming that Apple Maps is on par with Google Maps ... and yet you can't provide any evidence (let alone evidence from an unbiased source) to back up that claim. Suspicious.

post #129 of 498

Of course that sucks. It's normal that they are angry at maps but this kind of mistake happens to all navigation systems anyway, and maps is still far from perfect now. Never follow blindly your gps is an obvious rule.

post #130 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

 

No, you're claiming that Apple Maps is on par with Google Maps ... and yet you can't provide any evidence (let alone evidence from an unbiased source) to back up that claim. Suspicious.


I'm amazed at how fast Google corrects their data. There was one poster here who showed a google maps screenshot of a place (in australia) that wasn't mapped. I looked at the data on bing that was up to date, suggested the modifications to google, and in a matter of minutes the streets were there! It's really amazing. If only Apple had this!

post #131 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post


Correct Google Maps had problems when it was released too!! BUT they also had YEARS to get it right. So Apple had a time proven product and replaced it with one still in TESTING mode....knowing that it would take years to get it right. Then who tested the data? Apple even thought it was a failure... Tim even aplologized for it and FIRED the guy that was responsible.

 

Yep - Google only correctly shows my address in the correct physical location as of a couple years ago - despite the house being here since the mid 1970s and appearing clearly in Google satellite photos. While the error was only a few hundred feet - it did result in at least one case where a delivery van left a package with my address on it on my neighbor's front step. It was after dark when the package was delivered. Their website showed delivery confirmation and just before I called them I noticed a package on my neighbor's step - about 300 feet away on the other side of a wooded lot - and since the resident there was typically in Florida for most of the winter I figured I would check it out and it fact it was my package. 

 

I also once had a GPS unit tell me to make a right turn in the middle of a bridge about 500 feet above a river - where there was no exit ramp - and proceed to have its signal messed up by something like a quarter mile from where I actually was for the ret of the trip - that was a Belkin Bluetooth unit and computer based software. 

 

My TomTom unit is not very happy in Toronto, Ontario - had me make a lengthy series of left turns until I decide to just use the map on screen to get my own bearings and ignore the instructions until I was clear of the larger buildings that I suspect where interfering with the satellite signals. 

 

In neither case did I need to call to be rescued or even complain to the respective manufacturers - I accepted that the technologies I used have limitations. 

post #132 of 498
A lot of people (who don't read appleinsider or are less tech-savvy) might have no idea that the foundation of the default map app on iPhones has changed - in iOS 4 and earlier it was just called "Maps", remember.

Sure the new non-google app looks totally different, but so do lots of upgraded apps (iTunes 11 vs 10 for example). With google maps, people became accustomed to 99.5% accuracy pretty much everywhere in the world. If they don't realize the data behind iOS 6 maps is completely different, it can lead to serious problems. Maybe 90% of north american and western european data is now accurate, but in many parts of the world it's absolutely terrible. I live part-time in Nepal, and Google maps is 99.5% accurate even in very remote areas, while iOS 6 maps are a step below having somebody who visited here once in the '60s drawing you a map with a crayon on a napkin during an earthquake.

Really, a year ago if you were driving to a fairly common tourist destination in a developed country, would you really feel the need to double check with an atlas or paper map if you had detailed directions from google maps? Probably not... I guess on the bright side, Apple is giving a boost to paper map publishers...
post #133 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

This is nonsense. EVERY mapping system has flaws. There is absolutely no evidence that Apple's Maps is any worse than any of the other mapping systems.

I disagree. There is lots of evidence that Apple's Maps is worse, in some areas, than the other mapping systems. Note the 'in some areas'.

What folks forget is that those services weren't perfect when they launched either. And in some ways still are not perfect. For its whole life, Google directions has told folks to go the wrong way down a street in my neighborhood that has been a one way for a good 20 years. Mapquest is missing a major rail line that has been around for a good couple of years. Almost every service has timetable errors left and right for our local public transit. And so on.

This article and the source ones are written to be hit foddering hyperboling more than anything else. Details are left out in masse so Apple looks worse than they likely are. Like how many times are we really talking about, was anyone really in danger (kids, elderly etc that can't go for a day without fluids like a healthy adult can) and so on. Apple bashing gets page hits. The local police did as they should and reminded folks that this is not an ages old system that has been proven to be perfect so be careful when using it. But then the media, even the locals, had to jump on it for the page hits. Because Apple is 'bank' when it comes to page hits, always keep that in mind when reading articles.

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post #134 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


The sentence before that one answered the question. He said that the customers expected "the best experience possible" and Apple Maps didn't provide it. That's a tautology. NO product provides "the best experience possible".
Again, it reads very much like an apology you'd give to your wife when you know she doesn't have any rational complaint: "I'm sorry you're upset".
But feel free to point out any wording in Tim's letter that supports your claim that the program is defective. While you're at it, how about some evidence that it's worse than the alternatives?
Which makes it seem more likely to me that the entire thing is a set up foisted by one of Apple's competitors.


So what was the users expectations? Tim said Apple Maps did not meet those expectaitions...... If you want need anecdotal proof just look arond you.... in this thread...enough people have been posting it with great logical evidence. You read it but just don't see it.... Nothing i can point out or give you will change that. By your own posts Tim said Maps did not meet users expectations. So what did Apple users expect? We expect it to be on par with the rest of Apples offerings! We expect a great user experience and for it to just work. So if it failed expectations then it is defective........

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post #135 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by werdnanotroh View Post


It's not like he drove randomly into the outback. He drove along a highway to a town, and his maps told him to turn (there aren't a lot of signs on some of our roads) so he wouldn't have had any reason to assume he was going the wrong way.
 

Then perhaps before you gripe about mapping service you should gripe at your authorities to put up some damn signs. After all, driving into an area with crap cell service as this apparently was, you wouldn't have access to GPS to show you that you turned the wrong way etc and those signs would have pointed out your error. That gets folks lost just as much as bad electronic maps. And proper signs might have alerted these folks to a potential issue before it became one. I wonder what the rate of incidence was before all these SATNAV etc systems for that area. Sounds to me like it was just as bad to several times worse. And in those days folks might not have had a cell phone of any kind to try to get help, leading to more serious injury, illness or even death.

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post #136 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


I disagree. There is lots of evidence that Apple's Maps is worse, in some areas, than the other mapping systems. Note the 'in some areas'.
What folks forget is that those services weren't perfect when they launched either. And in some ways still are not perfect. For its whole life, Google directions has told folks to go the wrong way down a street in my neighborhood that has been a one way for a good 20 years. Mapquest is missing a major rail line that has been around for a good couple of years. Almost every service has timetable errors left and right for our local public transit. And so on.
This article and the source ones are written to be hit foddering hyperboling more than anything else. Details are left out in masse so Apple looks worse than they likely are. Like how many times are we really talking about, was anyone really in danger (kids, elderly etc that can't go for a day without fluids like a healthy adult can) and so on. Apple bashing gets page hits. The local police did as they should and reminded folks that this is not an ages old system that has been proven to be perfect so be careful when using it. But then the media, even the locals, had to jump on it for the page hits. Because Apple is 'bank' when it comes to page hits, always keep that in mind when reading articles.


I agree with just about everything you said........any map program takes time to mature and Apple Maps has not had that yet. But given time I am sure it will meet Apples users expectations become a great product!

The thing about Apple and the media is.....it cuts both ways....they get great media coverage for everything they do.....good and bad.

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post #137 of 498
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Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

So if it failed expectations then it is defective........

Only if you mean that it's imperfect, but if you are implying a harsher, more extreme use of the word defective then that is no accurate.

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post #138 of 498

Comparing Apple Maps with year 1 of google maps is pretty pointless; kind of like saying a couple of years ago that "the Zune is as good or better than 1st generation iPod was - and it'll get better!". 99.9% of people would rather use the product that works, especially something as important as maps are. What apple should have done was put their Maps program in all developer/beta copies of iOS updates for a year or two to iron out the wrinkles and get a sense for where they probably need to rethink their source data, but only release it officially/publicly in iOS7 or 8. That way people who choose to iron out bugs and beta test could have been the guinea pigs instead of people who assume the data is just as good as it was in iOS 5. 

post #139 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post


sure ...so you are defending that? Is that a good user experience? Why replace a great working product like Google Maps in the first place? Especially knowing it would take years to get it right?

 

 

Because Google was refusing to support voice turn-by-turn navigation on iOS, which put the iPhone at a disadvantage by requiring iPhone users to look at their phone while driving.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by geekdad View Post


sure ...so you are defending that? Is that a good user experience? Why replace a great working product like Google Maps in the first place? Especially knowing it would take years to get it right? They replaced a working product with a inferior one so they could use all of their users as beta testers? 

 

 

The inferior product is the one without turn-by-turn navigation, not the one where every single mapping error is repeated several hundred times over across the internet. Your mileage (ahem) may vary.

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

 The users...all of us....did not get a choice of which product to use? 

 

Yes you did. Apple suggested a number of alternatives and Google Maps service is still accessible under iOS6. 

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

Why would Apple publicly acknowledge that it was not working correctly then fire the product manager? You think they planned it that way? Do you think they relish the criticisms from all over the world? Do they like all the bad publicity just so Maps can get as you say "the workout it is seeing today." Funny Tim Cook has acknowledged that it is not working correctly...but what does he know....he just runs Apple.....He isn't defending Maps....just you.....

 

 

Why apologise? Well, given all the whining, I think it was the smart thing to do. Take the lumps and make it better, for which they need folk to use it. 

 

Unpleasant, I know, but a fact of life for this kind of software. 

 

The real mistake they made was relying on Google in the first place. They should have started this project much much sooner. That's hindsight for you though.

post #140 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I understand needing to cut the cord with Google as much as possible, but there are things Apple is good at, and things they're not. Maybe they should have left mapping to someone else. It's not like they don't have enough other stuff to focus on, especially when it comes to cloud infrastructure.

They did leave mapping to someone else. Their data comes from outside sources like TomTom etc.

That data being flawed led them to having to verify and correct huge parts of the data.

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post #141 of 498
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Originally Posted by geekdad View Post


Correct Google Maps had problems when it was released too!! BUT they also had YEARS to get it right. So Apple had a time proven product and replaced it with one still in TESTING mode.

While having not cut off access to a multitude of other map sources, as Tim pointed out in his apology.

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post #142 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Only if you mean that it's imperfect, but if you are implying a harsher, more extreme use of the word defective then that is no accurate.


I am not sure I agree with you....if i am a multi billion dollar company and I release a global product and it does not meet the expectations of the products audience then........that kinda fits defective. Then it is not doing what it was designed and tested to do. 

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post #143 of 498
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Originally Posted by lightknight View Post


I mus say,it was nice of Apple to gift all these iphone 5 to testers. Oh, wait...

 

Hey, every mapping app service gets fixed by the users. That's just how it works, unfortunately. If you were using the phone primarily for the mapping app then you should have returned if it didn't work out for you.


Edited by Rayz - 12/10/12 at 8:34am
post #144 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayz "Because Google was refusing to support voice turn-by-turn navigation on iOS, which put the iPhone at a disadvantage by requiring iPhone users to look at their phone while driving."

 

According to the press rumors, including those from Allthing'sD, Google wasn't refusing to offer voice navigation. They were declining to do so for free. Apple and Google were simply unable to come to an agreement on what each would be willing to offer to come to an agreement. That's business.

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post #145 of 498
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Originally Posted by geekdad View Post


I am not sure I agree with you....if i am a multi billion dollar company and I release a global product and it does not meet the expectations of the products audience then........that kinda fits defective. Then it is not doing what it was designed and tested to do. 

 

Which of course depends on how many people in that audience find it defective. If you're using the internet echo chamber as a guide then it's worth remembering the number of people who said that they would never get an iPhone5 if they shipped it with the 'long ugly' screen. By that reckoning, they shouldn't be selling too well.

post #146 of 498
Originally Posted by c4rlob View Post
Firing their iOS executives is looking like an even better decision now!

 

Why?

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post #147 of 498
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Originally Posted by geekdad View Post


I am not sure I agree with you....if i am a multi billion dollar company and I release a global product and it does not meet the expectations of the products audience then........that kinda fits defective. Then it is not doing what it was designed and tested to do. 

Was iOS 1.0 a defective mobile OS if people expected cut/copy/paste? Was the original iPhone a defective handset if people expected 3G or a slide out keyboard?

It's not good when a large number of customers are expecting one experience and getting another experience — hence the reason for Cook's apology any my issues with the original 'over promise, under deliver' stemming from the iOS 6 demo — but an expectation in and of itself does not a defective (in the sense that it's not usable) product make.

My biggest issue with Map Smear™ is that Apple can't afford to operate like a normal company. They need to be proactive. They need to expect the wort so they don't have to issue apologies and hold events to show that their antenna works just fine. In both of these instances I believe Apple could have prevented all of it if they had just thought about it from the average customer's perspective of what the media will do to any shortcoming they find. If you get out in front of it then there is no shocking revelation to be revealed by a third party. Apple stays in control. Sure, you still have the extremists with their soapboxes but you will always have them.

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post #148 of 498

I don't think Apple can be blamed for the fact people take a battery powered cell phone, with limited coverage, to a remote area and expect any margin of accuracy.  There are Nomadic tribes in the middle east who have navigated in the shifting sands of the desert for thousands of years. People today expect too much from gadgets.  I doubt Apple (or anyone) is responsible for a users lack of common sense.

 

Plan the trip in advance, tell people where you are going and take a map.


Edited by ijaxon - 12/10/12 at 8:48am
post #149 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I have been an Apple fan for over 34 years... longer than many here have been alive!

Apple's mapping is not as good as Google Maps for many things:  accuracy of data; areas covered; satellite images; POI data; street view; computer/web access...  to name a few.

No amount of "pick and choose" comparisons can change this!

I do believe that, in the long run, Apple Maps will be a superior solution!

But first, Apple needs to admit to themselves that action is needed -- then take that action.

I don't really care if other map solutions are as bad or worse in some situations!

I want to use Apple Maps, and develop dependable solutions (iOS and OSX) using Apple MAps.

Apple Maps just isn't good enough!

Have you changed your position on Apple Maps, because I feel as if you had the opposite position back when I was concerned about Apple Maps being a potential issue waiting to explode back when the iOS 6 betas were out?

 

No!

 

I think that Apple screwed up in how they announced the app -- it should have been a work-in-progress or a beta.  

 

I do not think Apple had many options as Google held all the aces -- so I believe that Apple did what they had to do...  I think that Apple could/should have done a better job of explaining this with something like:

 

"We wanted to add features to maps like TBT and vector graphics... We wanted to provide an ad-free experience...  We did not want to compromise user privacy...  We wanted to provide the best possible map experience... We were unable to accomplish this through negotiations with our current map supplier going forward, so we are providing an alternative and we are committed to making this the very best map solution for our customers."

 

 

By doing this prior to iOS 6 announcement they would have avoided most of the problems -- and had people on their side rather than looking for knockoffs.

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post #150 of 498
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Originally Posted by RichL View Post

 

Got a link to these comparisons?

 

Here's one: http://blog.tabini.ca/2012/09/old-maps-vs-new-maps/

 

Now, do you have a link to an objective comparison, that meets at least the standards of evidence presented in the above link, that shows anything to the contrary? 

post #151 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayz View Post

 

Which of course depends on how many people in that audience find it defective. If you're using the internet echo chamber as a guide then it's worth remembering the number of people who said that they would never get an iPhone5 if they shipped it with the 'long ugly' screen. By that reckoning, they shouldn't be selling too well.

No one said anything about sales. No one said anything about the IP5 being defective or a failure....YOU brought that to the discussion. The phone itself has NOTHING to do with it. The iPhone 5 is a huge success. I have the 64GB in black and LOVE it.

The CEO of Apple apologized for Maps not meeting expectations. So don't muddy the waters with anything else....stay on topic.

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post #152 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

 

No!

 

I think that Apple screwed up in how they announced the app -- it should have been a work-in-progress or a beta.  

 

I do not think Apple had many options as Google held all the aces -- so I believe that Apple did what they had to do...  I think that Apple could/should have done a better job of explaining this with something like:

 

"We wanted to add features to maps like TBT and vector graphics... We wanted to provide an ad-free experience...  We did not want to compromise user privacy...  We wanted to provide the best possible map experience... We were unable to accomplish this through negotiations with our current map supplier going forward, so we are providing an alternative and we are committed to making this the very best map solution for our customers."

 

 

By doing this prior to iOS 6 announcement they would have avoided most of the problems -- and had people on their side rather than looking for knockoffs.


I agree 100%.....

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post #153 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

No one said anything about sales. No one said anything about the IP5 being defective or a failure....YOU brought that to the discussion. The phone itself has NOTHING to do with it. The iPhone 5 is a huge success. I have the 64GB in black and LOVE it.
The CEO of Apple apologized for Maps not meeting expectations. So don't muddy the waters with anything else....stay on topic.

You stated, "So if it failed expectations then it is defective." You opened it up to anything that has failed expectations. I can't recall a product from Apple in the last decade that hasn't had failed expectations. Hence, I think your definition, as stated, is inaccurate.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #154 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

The CEO of Apple apologized for Maps not meeting expectations. So don't muddy the waters with anything else....stay on topic.

 

As pointed, the expectations where that it would be perfect, and, not surprisingly, it wasn't perfect. That doesn't mean it's any more "defective" than any other mapping service. Present some actual, objective evidence that Google Maps is substantially more accurate -- not this anecdotal nonsense being tossed around -- or please admit that you are engaged in baseless hysteria.

post #155 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

 

I have been an Apple fan for over 34 years... longer than many here have been alive!

 

Apple's mapping is not as good as Google Maps for many things:  accuracy of data; areas covered; satellite images; POI data; street view; computer/web access...  to name a few.

 

No amount of "pick and choose" comparisons can change this!

 

I do believe that, in the long run, Apple Maps will be a superior solution!

 

But first, Apple needs to admit to themselves that action is needed -- then take that action.

 

I don't really care if other map solutions are as bad or worse in some situations!

 

I want to use Apple Maps, and develop dependable solutions (iOS and OSX) using Apple MAps.

 

Apple Maps just isn't good enough!

 

I've been an Apple fan about 30 years and I'm irritated sometimes with Apple. Maps - I just wont' use it. I don't trust it. I want Apple's old Google based app back.

 

Another annoyance: clicking on a link is Apple Mail (Mountain Lion). I get weird error saying the app doesn't know what to do. WTF?????

 

 

P

post #156 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

No!

I think that Apple screwed up in how they announced the app -- it should have been a work-in-progress or a beta.  

I do not think Apple had many options as Google held all the aces -- so I believe that Apple did what they had to do...  I think that Apple could/should have done a better job of explaining this with something like:

"We wanted to add features to maps like TBT and vector graphics... We wanted to provide an ad-free experience...  We did not want to compromise user privacy...  We wanted to provide the best possible map experience... We were unable to accomplish this through negotiations with our current map supplier going forward, so we are providing an alternative and we are committed to making this the very best map solution for our customers."


By doing this prior to iOS 6 announcement they would have avoided most of the problems -- and had people on their side rather than looking for knockoffs.

They also could have provided the alternatives up front instead of as reaction to the uproar.

And truthfully they could have pushed a lot more money into it. I don't recall once during the beta testing Apple asking developers to correct any addresses or PoIs that they find incorrect.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #157 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

As pointed, the expectations where that it would be perfect, and, not surprisingly, it wasn't perfect. That doesn't mean it's any more "defective" than any other mapping service. Present some actual, objective evidence that Google Maps is substantially more accurate -- not this anecdotal nonsense being tossed around -- or please admit that you are engaged in baseless hysteria.

Good point. I think stating that the expectations set up by Apple were definitely defective.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #158 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Was iOS 1.0 a defective mobile OS if people expected cut/copy/paste? Was the original iPhone a defective handset if people expected 3G or a slide out keyboard?
It's not good when a large number of customers are expecting one experience and getting another experience — hence the reason for Cook's apology any my issues with the original 'over promise, under deliver' stemming from the iOS 6 demo — but an expectation in and of itself does not a defective (in the sense that it's not usable) product make.
My biggest issue with Map Smear™ is that Apple can't afford to operate like a normal company. They need to be proactive. They need to expect the wort so they don't have to issue apologies and hold events to show that their antenna works just fine. In both of these instances I believe Apple could have prevented all of it if they had just thought about it from the average customer's perspective of what the media will do to any shortcoming they find. If you get out in front of it then there is no shocking revelation to be revealed by a third party. Apple stays in control. Sure, you still have the extremists with their soapboxes but you will always have them.


I think we have to face the fact that Apple is a huge company that makes it slow when it comes to software. IOS looks a million years old and you can't change the skins in apps. Also, Safari on iOS is simply not good. Chrome is much better. Why can't I set Chrome as default browser on IOS? Sucks. Also, Safari on Mac is slow. I've done a clean install and sometimes Safari just hangs and won't display an entire web page. I will use Chrome and it opens pages in a flash. iOS Mountain Lion? $20 is much ado about nothing.

 

Someone who worked at Apple said, "Yes, Apple is fast if you are going in reverse." They have some work to do. They are sitting on billions of dollars that then want to bring to US (most of it is in foreign banks), but don't want to pay taxes on it and want tax amnesty. Come on. Bring the money back, pay your taxes, and hire a ton of people to do Street View. Canvas the entire world and put that into maps.

post #159 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Was iOS 1.0 a defective mobile OS if people expected cut/copy/paste? Was the original iPhone a defective handset if people expected 3G or a slide out keyboard?
It's not good when a large number of customers are expecting one experience and getting another experience — hence the reason for Cook's apology any my issues with the original 'over promise, under deliver' stemming from the iOS 6 demo — but an expectation in and of itself does not a defective (in the sense that it's not usable) product make.
My biggest issue with Map Smear™ is that Apple can't afford to operate like a normal company. They need to be proactive. They need to expect the wort so they don't have to issue apologies and hold events to show that their antenna works just fine. In both of these instances I believe Apple could have prevented all of it if they had just thought about it from the average customer's perspective of what the media will do to any shortcoming they find. If you get out in front of it then there is no shocking revelation to be revealed by a third party. Apple stays in control. Sure, you still have the extremists with their soapboxes but you will always have them.


I agree with allot of your points. But we are not talking about a whole mobile operating system and bells and whistles. We are talking about one app that replaced (at time of launch) a perfectly functioning app. Then through general users feedback and public acknowledgement from the CEO....it failed expectations. It failed Apples own high standard for user experience. If a billion dollar company with all of its resources at its disposal launches an application and it fails to meet expectations then it failed......not a complete failure. It can still be improved (all map apps can) but it will take time.

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post #160 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Forced? Talk about sham arguments, you are the Scarecrow King. What was forced by Apple?

The upgrade to iOS 6 is pretty much forced by Apple since they are no longer signing any iOS 5 installs. The rest of your argument is refuted by this.
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