Inaccurate Apple Maps directions causes 'life threatening issue' for travelers, says Australian... - Page 6

Quote:

Originally Posted by anonymouse 

 

I assure you, if you make a valid point, I'll "get it". But, you can hardly criticize me for not getting it when you admit you haven't made it yet.

lol....you haven't show that ability so far....

Quote:

Originally Posted by tflanders 

This is a good example of why maps are so hard. Apple Maps isn't actually displaying anything incorrectly. The user entered "Mildura" with nothing else to narrow the location. Apple Maps returns the biggest, most general "Midura" it can find. In this case, that happens to be Mildura Share, an administrative area similar to a US county. It displays it with a pin. If you supply either an address or even a postal code, then it would return the actual town of Mildura.

 

Apple Maps isn't inaccurate in this case, but it is behaving poorly. Ideally, it would show the region with borders highlighted like Google does. If it can't do that, it should at least refuse to provide driving directions to the centre of a region like that.

 

If you try a little, you can find many instances where Apple Maps returns the centre of a region like this. The "errors" that people like to post usually involve situations like this where there are different places with similar names. If you don't give a precise address, it tries to pick the best match it can find, given the information you provided. While this is correct in a purely academic GIS sense, it is not appropriate for end users. These are the kinds of errors that Apple is apologizing for. It is correct, but not useful.

This is an excellent point!   

The "search" in Apple Maps is less intuitive and less forgiving than Google Maps.

For example with Apple Maps:

1) Do a search for "st peters, rome italy" (Note: commas are important)

It will drop several pins -- but none for the church.

2) Now do a search for "st peters church, rome italy"

No results found!

3) Then do a search for "st peters basilica, rome italy" 

No results found!

4)  repeat the search from step 1) then immediately 

5)  do a search for "st peters basilica"

Nails it!

For grins, do a search for ""st peters, rome" -- and you'll get upstate Rome, New York.

BTW, search for "mildura airport"  gives a map of the correct location.

What I get from all this (and other similar results) is that Google's search, context and filtering is much better than Apple's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by anonymouse 

 

I assure you, if you make a valid point, I'll "get it". But, you can hardly criticize me for not getting it when you admit you haven't made it yet.

agreed!

Quote:

Originally Posted by geekdad 

lol....you haven't show that ability so far....

You are the one, who is 'crying; personal attacks???

Hmmm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexN 

Police are worried that Maps is leading them astray when the idiots are going out totally unprepared, i.e., no water in summer (or almost summer)? Are these fools trying for a Darwin Award or something? Talk about lack of bushcraft. Mindless idiots.
Unbelievable? Nah, there's one born every minute.

Quote:

Originally Posted by radster360 

It is an stupidity of the individual. It has widely been published about issues with iOS6 map. If I I am going to be in wilderness, I better check out other map to validate the accuracy, especially when it has been a public knowledge about the iOS6 map. Secondly, the interesting thing the article mentions about lack of cell coverage in the area. Even with the correct map, the person would have not been able to follow the maps. 

 

Apparently, Australia has found one thing or another to come after Apple. First, it was the LTE issue and now they are pulling this map non-sense. Apple, Screw Australia! 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayz 

 

I'm not convinced it was a set-up, but yes - these people are too stupid to hold driving licences.

When I read the headline, my notion for a comment was to ding the Aussie police for scare tactics and quote (I think) Lou Costello saying "Everybody wants to get into the [Apple-bashing] act!" But in point of fact, Apple is still encouraging people to believe in (and trust) Maps.  And a product marketed around the world should work reasonably well wherever it's sold, and not just relatively better in its largest markets.

Right on the iPhone 5 features page, just beneath a picture of mapping directions it says:  "You rely on your iPhone." 

Which absolutely implies that you can... ...and therefore should do so.....

And about Maps itself, it still says:

So rather than bash the people of an entire country ("Screw Australia!"), this is only becoming a bigger issue for Apple.  Not everyone in the world reads tech news like Tim Cook's apology, and not everyone drives into a National Park for a lark equipped for a 24 hour walk caused by faulty tech (which I would certainly call "a delay")  - but those who order from a web site or go to a store do believe what they're encouraged to believe. 

And even though - as others have noted - no mapping system is flawless (including paper maps), Apple's baseline release - unless you can cite a thoroughly documented study to the contrary - seems more flawed than what it replaced. 

There's legitimately defending Apple and then there's ignorant Apple Chauvinism (see - there are words other than "fanboi" to make the point).  And these kinds of posts are clearly the latter.

Apple rushed in to ditch Google when they could have taken another year - with a half-baked product that could have been marked as Beta (like Siri) - and they're still not copping to it in their own marketing materials - so they deserve every bit of criticism they're getting on this one.  And I expect will end up paying both to these folks (and maybe others) as well as in a tarnished reputation and a continuation of "Maps gate." 

Once a perception sets in over a period of time (see Windows Blue Screen of Death - although I haven't had one in ages on my old Win VISTA machine), it lingers long after.

Also, noting that Eddy Cue has a lot on his plate is another weak defense.  This called for a crash program from day one.  I remember Apple moving people from one major team to another (I believe it was from OS X to then iPhone OS) to get a critical release out.   While real mapping expertise may be in short supply, hiring a crew of temps to make sure that every user-submitted correction is logged, checked and dealt with in a timely manner is not beyond their resources.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by anonymouse 

 

Actually, I think the real issue her is: Has anyone gotten lost using Google Maps or other services? The answer is, yes they have. This is nonsense, and unprofessional.

 

Don't the police in Australia have better things to do, like track down prank callers pretending to be the queen? 

 

Wait wait wait. So your excuse for this is "Well people have gotten lost using our competitors' products. So there's no need to address issues with our products that could lead to disasterous results."

Wow... Just wow.

I'd love for you to be on Apple's lawyer team if something truly does go wrong and Apple is sued for it and for you to say that to the court.

Quote:

Originally Posted by anonymouse 

 

I fail to see why they would be subject to entirely different standards just because of precedence. Do you have any sort of argument to make other than that Apple Maps ought to be perfect but it doesn't matter how flawed Google Maps is? Because, not only is that not a compelling argument, it's entirely nonsensical.

Well, that's just it isn't?

When folk follow a generic GPS without thinking, we call them idiots.

When folk follow the Maps app without thinking, Cupertino is 'endangering lives'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaelian 


Neither do I, because it's not based on precedence. Re-read my original argument.

I'm commenting on the post I replied to. You said Google Maps doesn't have to be perfect because it was already released, implying that it doesn't have to be perfect because it was out first, and that Apple Maps does because it wasn't out first. You're perfectly welcome to disavow the comment, especially since it doesn't make any sense.

Hi,

Apple should have rolled out maps to North America subscribers only and undertake some field testing, since North America has the biggest users of navigation systems in the world and the most complete mapping details for a country.

Anyway lets see how Apple reacts, since a great company can get it wrong and come back with a better superior product and learn from their mistakes.

Btw: Never use any nag system in India, since the streets names always come in 2s. One is the long registered name and the other is local well known name..lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsianBob 

Quote:

 

Wait wait wait. So your excuse for this is "Well people have gotten lost using our competitors' products. So there's no need to address issues with our products that could lead to disasterous results."

 

Wow... Just wow.

 

I'd love for you to be on Apple's lawyer team if something truly does go wrong and Apple is sued for it and for you to say that to the court.

No, my point is that the Australian police are behaving irresponsibly when they single out a single mapping service, implying, without evidence, that the others are perfectly safe to use uncritically.

Originally Posted by souliisoul 
Apple should have rolled out maps to North America subscribers only and undertake some field testing…

Now this is something that would have actually been "disastrous".

Quote:

Originally Posted by souliisoul 

You are the one, who is 'crying; personal attacks???

Hmmm

yes...did you see the moderators response? No harm no foul so......

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil 

 

Now this is something that would have actually been "disastrous".

Why would it be disastrous, since it was rolled out to the entire world and every country has fault with the app?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaelian 


Bold is mine, and yes, it's important. What I said is that Google Maps did not replace anything; changing my wording to imply something else and attacking that is a straw man fallacy. Apple Maps DID replace Google Maps as an app on iOS (the web alternative already existed before, so it can't be considered), thus creating the expectation that it should be at least as good as what it replaced.

OK, so, you're arguing, that anyone who releases software that replaces existing software (which must have been released first if it's being "replaced", but we'll ignore that for the sake of argument) must be perfect, but it's ok for the existing software to suck?

I want to make sure we have this straight since it's always so hard to figure out what you are trying to say.

Originally Posted by souliisoul 
Why would it be disastrous…

Leaving the entire world save NA without a native mapping app at all? Let's think.

Every country has fault with Google Maps. What's the point?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jragosta 


This is nonsense. EVERY mapping system has flaws. There is absolutely no evidence that Apple's Maps is any worse than any of the other mapping systems. Sure, you can find errors in Apple's Maps that don't appear on Google Maps and vice versa, but in the few cases where people have done large scale comparisons, Apple comes out looking just as good as Google.
So where's your evidence that they didn't test it thoroughly enough? Anecdotes don't count.
I suspect they were put up to it by Google or another of Apple's competitors. It didn't happen for months after the release of Apple Maps and suddenly there are a string of the exact same error involving people who use Apple Maps to go to the same small remote city and are all too stupid to realize that there's a problem? Sounds like a set up.
I've used quite a few mapping systems. Mapquest. Google Maps (computer). Google Maps (Android). TomTom. Garmin. Four different car navigation systems. And every single one of them has had some problems, so only an idiot would blindly follow the technology into a dangerous situation. Didn't anyone bother to read the street signs? Learn a little bit about the area before wandering in? And didn't it look suspicious when the road turned into a narrow walking trail (or no trail at all)? If it's not a set up, then these people truly are candidates for the Darwin Award.

All your ranting aside, there is plenty of proof that on an overall level, Apple Maps is worse off than other mapping software. I looked up Mildura in Google Maps and what do you know, it placed it right where it's supposed to be. So for this particular case, Apple Maps is without a doubt worse off than Google Maps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by anonymouse 

 

No, my point is that the Australian police are behaving irresponsibly when they single out a single mapping service, implying, without evidence, that the others are perfectly safe to use uncritically.

Lol...so now the Australian police are "behaving irresponsibly"? Even though they have had MULTIPLE instances of people getting themselves into life-threatening situations using a common mapping application, they should just stay quite until they have had a chance to critically evaluate EVERY other mapping application for 'fairness'?

I cannot comment on the Apple map app as I still use iOS 5 on my iPhone 4.  I have avoided using Google's map app after blindly trusting it to get me from Chicago to Florida last summer.  First, Google directed me to go through Louisville despite major road construction on I-65, where there was only one lane of traffic on the Ohio River bridge.  If I had only followed Mapquest's first and second recommendation of going through Cincinnati, I would have saved over 4 hours of travel time.  Due to the loss in travel time, I was stuck in another tie-up north of Knoxville so I made reservations at a hotel in Knoxville and took Google's recommendation of getting off the expressway and ending up on a one-lane dirt road full of huge ruts making it more like a 3/4-lane road.  Fortunately, I somehow made it back to I-65, otherwise they might be finding my corpse just about now in a deep ravine of northern Tennessee. Google also could not find my final destination to a house on a private road in Amelia Island Plantation.  On the return trip, I followed Mapquest's directions of going through Cincinnati and made the trip in one day -- over 6 hours less driving time than the Google trip down to Florida.  

Another example of the poor quality of the Google map app is that the recommendation from my home to work place results in a one-way trip that is 1.6 miles and typically 5 to 10 minutes longer than the route Mapquest recommends.

Quote:

Originally Posted by anonymouse 

 

No, my point is that the Australian police are behaving irresponsibly when they single out a single mapping service, implying, without evidence, that the others are perfectly safe to use uncritically.

Are they actually implying that others are safe to use? Or is that something you came up with to excuse Apple Maps? Because nowhere in the police statement do I see the police endorse any other mapping system or your claim even remotely being implied.

All I see is that they investigated and found out that Apple Maps was the root cause of these few incidences due to incorrect mapping data. And all they are doing is telling everyone to not use Apple Maps until Apple has corrected this problem or they might end up in the same positions as those unlucky others. Nothing more, nothing less.

I see nothing wrong with what the police did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaelian 


No, let us not ignore that, let me shut that formal logic fallacy down right now. Just because replacement implies precedence does not mean precedence implies replacement, thus making it wrong to deduce that my statement is based on precedence. Since you seem to have a hard time grasping abstraction, let me give you a concrete example where precedence exists without replacement: Nokia Maps preceded Apple Maps, yet nobody is complaining about the lack of information on the latter compared to the former. Why? Because Nokia Maps was never available as a tightly integrated native app built into iOS' core, so Apple Maps didn't replace it.

You seem to have that all backwards, but, then, I'm still trying to figure out what you were trying to say previously. Are you just dodging that question, or are you not sure either?

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsianBob 

 

Are they actually implying that others are safe to use? Or is that something you came up with to excuse Apple Maps? Because nowhere in the police statement do I see the police endorse any other mapping system or your claim even remotely being implied.

Well, if they were "endorsing" other solutions, they wouldn't be implying it, would they. That's not a question, Bob.

Have people ever gotten lost using other mapping solutions? Did the Australian police issue statements saying they presented a life threatening issue? If so, I withdraw my statement, otherwise, I stand by it. Frankly, I think they are just caught up in the hysteria, too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogifan 


I don't think anyone can defend Apple over maps BUT I have a hard time believing bad directions could be a life or death situation. At some point wouldn't the driver figure out they're going the way and turn around? And if you were going out to the middle of nowhere wouldn't you make sure you were prepared just in case you got stranded or something?

Unfortunately, some people don't. 

http://www.sacbee.com/2011/01/30/3362727/death-by-gps-in-desert.html

Your comment made me think of this story because of something the police officer said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by jragosta 


Sure, you can find errors in Apple's Maps that don't appear on Google Maps and vice versa, but in the few cases where people have done large scale comparisons, Apple comes out looking just as good as Google.

Do you have any references to these "large scale comparisons"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by e_veritas 

Lol...so now the Australian police are "behaving irresponsibly"? Even though they have had MULTIPLE instances of people getting themselves into life-threatening situations using a common mapping application, they should just stay quite until they have had a chance to critically evaluate EVERY other mapping application for 'fairness'?

So, you are claiming that no one ever got lost in Australia using any other mapping service?

Quote:

Originally Posted by souliisoul 

Hi,

 

Apple should have rolled out maps to North America subscribers only and undertake some field testing, 

And how would that help Australia?

They are viewing it wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jragosta 


Ranting? So making a logical, factual argument is ranting?
Meanwhile, you and all the others who are screaming "Apple Maps sucks" (even though you haven't been able to show any reasonable comparison to support your claims) are not? (Note - just choosing one location where Apple fails is not evidence. There are also locations where Google fails and Apple gets it right. You're confusing 'anecdote' with 'evidence').
Wow. Just wow.

Are you familiar with the Tumblr site that was made after Apple Maps came out? It's pretty much an endless collection of user-submitted screenshots of all kinds of mistakes in Apple Maps. If that isn't "evidence", I don't know what is.

http://theamazingios6maps.tumblr.com

Do other mapping software have mistakes? Yes. Nothing's perfect. But some of the mistakes Apple Maps has (much like this article's example of misplacing whole cities) I just don't understand how it is possible.

Once place I do give Apple Maps the nod for clarity is sensitive facilities. Apple shows prisons, military bases, and other sensitive locations with great clarity...much to the annoyance of their home governments.

Originally Posted by Rayz 
And how would that help Australia?

They'd have no maps instead of these maps. Because apparently they'd rather have nothing than something. 

Originally Posted by AsianBob 
Are you familiar with the Tumblr site that was made after Apple Maps came out? It's pretty much an endless collection of user-submitted screenshots of all kinds of mistakes in Apple Maps. If that isn't "evidence", I don't know what is.

It's not.

1. It's Tumblr.

2. There are just as many about Google Maps guffaws.

Same mistakes that Google Maps had (or still have). I just don't understand how people think we can't see through their anti-Apple crap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayz 

Well, that's just it isn't?

 

When folk follow a generic GPS without thinking, we call them idiots.

When folk follow the Maps app without thinking, Cupertino is 'endangering lives'.

 

You have accurately summarized the situation with regard to the question of safety. Navigation errors when using navigation systems tend to get more attention than source or end user mistakes with paper maps, probably because there is the feeling that one is simply following instructions rather than figuring it out oneself. That is one reason that all these systems come with disclaimers.

Similar warnings have been issued in the past regarding the practice of blindly following navigation system directions, but it does seem that errors in Apple's maps are leading to the complaints being taken to a new level, as seems to be common with all kinds of complaints about Apple products. The complete lack of common sense that must have led to the drivers in this case getting lost in the manner that they did is not uncommon unfortunately, and not infrequently leads to SAR deployment when it happens in wilderness areas, but seldom does it result in the navigation systems being blamed to this extent.

The question of whether Apple Maps is an acceptable replacement for Google Maps is a different question, and the answer clearly depends both on expectations and location.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsianBob 

 

Are you familiar with the Tumblr site that was made after Apple Maps came out? It's pretty much an endless collection of user-submitted screenshots of all kinds of mistakes in Apple Maps. If that isn't "evidence", I don't know what is. Do other mapping software have mistakes? Yes. Nothing's perfect. But some of the mistakes Apple Maps has (much like this article's example of misplacing whole cities) I just don't understand how it is possible.

 

Once place I do give Apple Maps the nod for clarity is sensitive facilities. Apple shows prisons, military bases, and other sensitive locations with great clarity...much to the annoyance of their home governments.

You realize there have been similar sites related to Google Maps? No one could understand how those were possible either. Does no one have an actual valid point?

Quote:

Originally Posted by anonymouse 

 

So, you are claiming that no one ever got lost in Australia using any other mapping service?

Nice try with the straw man argument, but no, that is not what I claimed at all. I hardly think that the police notifying the public about a frequently recurring issue is "behaving irresponsibly" though. This would be like saying a city was "behaving irresponsibly" for putting up a crosswalk at an intersection with frequently recurring pedestrian accidents, even though accidents still happen at other intersections that were not 'critically evaluated'.