Inaccurate Apple Maps directions causes 'life threatening issue' for travelers, says Australian... - Page 7

Why would I be expected to answer a framed question? Your question is framed to rely on a logical fallacy, which I have already pointed ot, so why would I be required to answer it on your irrational terms?

 

Well, if Apple is still dragging their feet on transit.

 

 

I agree with most of what you say except: 

 

 

 

 

Apple may have had no choice:

 

I suspect that:

 

• Apple and Google had a multi-year agreement that Google furnish back-end data and services to Apple's Maps app.
• this agreement was renegotiated for each new iOS/iDevice release
• existing and older iOSes and iDevices were supported as an extension (or a condition) of the existing agreement 

 

I suspect that in the iOS 6 negotiations:

 

• Apple wanted all the Map features available to Android
• Google wanted to include ads in maps
• Google wanted to track location and user data

 

A standoff resulted.  If they could not reach agreement, Apple had no choice but to offer their own solution for new iDevices and iOS6 and  discontinue the prior maps app  for same.

 

 

I have no way of knowing that the above is true -- but I have 56 years of high tech experience and 34 years dealing with Apple...  and a pretty good idea of the ritual dance among frenemies.

 

Well, speaking of straw men and bad analogies...

 

But, I'm just trying to figure out what it is that you and others in this thread are trying to say, exactly what points you are trying to make. Because, frankly, none of you seems to have one and you are slippery as eels when we try to figure out what it might be.

 

So, please, what are you claiming?

It is possible because Apple did a good job on the mapping, but a poor job on usability. The city isn't misplaced at all. There is just another, much larger entity with the same name. If the user doesn't supply anything like an address or postal code to differentiate, Apple returns the the centre of the bigger region instead of the town with the same name. Neither the data or not the app are technically doing anything wrong, but end result is very bad press.

 

I'm just trying to figure out what you were trying to say when you wrote,

 

 

 

Rewording it and asking you if that was what you meant is a legitimate method of trying to understand someone. It's not a framed question at all.

 

But, please, tell us exactly what you did mean.

 

I'm sure others have gotten lost using other mapping solutions. I just know that in these cases, the reason the tourists got lost was because they followed Apple Maps. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure one of the first questions the police asked them was what they were using to navigate with that got them into the situation.

 

Again, all I see is the police just reporting the facts as it is. Apple Maps was the common denominator in what I would assume is a higher than average string of people getting lost. So the police are asking people to not use it until Apple puts Mildura back where the rest of the world says it is. Nothing unprofessional at all.

 

And I don't see any proof they're "caught up in the hysteria". Unless there's some tin foil plot that you think is afoot...

 

Perhaps the reason they haven't changed the marketing materials is because they have a better idea of the real size of the problem, rather than guesswork based on the rumblings on the internet. This report, and the accompanying hysteria you've been swept along by, is based on a handful of people getting lost. How many others are actually reaching their destination using Apple Maps? Six, seven, or a few more than that?

 

I take your point on the advertising though. I once bought a packet of crisps that promised that they would be the 'best crisps I'd ever tasted'. They weren't. The packet is now in the hands of my lawyers.

 

Yeah, of course someone will sue. Someone always does.

 

Having said that, given the number of foul-ups with GPS these days, you'd think most operators would have been sued out of existence by now. I suspect that for the sake of a few bucks, no one really wants to stand up in court and admit they were foolish enough to follow their SatNav into the Pacific Ocean.

 

Umm, maybe never.  It's whole lot cheaper just let the police to ask Australian not to use Apple map instead of fixing it.

It's hardly a conspiracy to say (truthfully) that the shortcomings of Google Maps, while identical to Apple Maps, are being not only ignored, but also actively obfuscated by… let's just call 'em detractors.

And what did you not understand from my 4 posts following that?


Unless it's used to try to convey distinct concepts into an idea that misrepresents the opposition and then attacking that idea rather than the opposition.


I've already done so, I've even included another concrete case so you could understand the difference in one of my posts. What was it that you did not understand?

 

Sorry, Bob, but being caught up in hysteria implies there is no tin foil plot, just hysteria.

 

(Gotta love the tin foil reference in the context of the present thread, though.)

 

So you're saying there's a "Mildura" in Murray-Sunset National Park?

 

The Tumblr site I posted earlier has more examples of various cities that Apple Maps has misplaced. Not all of them have a similarly named entity anywhere near them. All I'm questioning is where this mapping data is coming from. Is Apple not using the same base source Nokia and Google are using? Since there are already accurate maps, where was the cross-check?

 

For individual things like stores and the such, I can understand being slightly out of place. But entire cities?

 

Still no straight answer? It really looks to me like you are dodging it. I don't blame you, though. It was a pretty ridiculous thing to write. I wouldn't want to have to try to explain it either.

 

But, just in case there is any confusion, we're trying to find out what this quote from you means:

 

 

Feel free to put it in "context" if you feel I'm taking it out of context. But, frankly, I don't see how it can mean anything but that you are arguing that Google Maps and Apple Maps ought to be judged by entirely different standards because Apple Maps "replaced" Google Maps. In which case, you need to explain why getting replaced absolves one solution from criticism.

Edited by anonymouse - 12/10/12 at 11:13am

 

So you're saying that the only reason the Australian police singled out Apple Maps is not because it was the cause of a recent string of tourists getting put in a life-threatening situation, but rather that they were only looking for a reason to bad-mouth Apple Maps?

Ask a rational question and I will provide a rational answer. Your question has been demonstrated to be irrational.

 

No, he is saying that Murray-Sunset National Park is in the Local Government Area formally called the Rural City of Mildura.

 

Also interesting is that on the vic.gov.au mapping site, that LGA is identified just as Mildura, which presumably is how it got into the Maps database under that name.

Edited by muppetry - 12/10/12 at 11:15am

The world would not be without a nav app, lets not get narrowed minded and think one-directional. Apple would have kept the Google or similarly app and field tested the maps apps. Do you really think people use maps apps in Russia, which bigger land area than USA.

I think you have this way of reading what you want to read and not understanding people's point of view, especially when you think something has been said bad about apple.

 

Sarcasm is not your strong point and I was just stating that maps could have been better beta tested in one country. 

Lets see it was released, it got bad reviews and everyone gone back to their previous apps, why not keep previous apps, do beta testing in select country and the roll and then roll the app out.

 

You cannot compare Google maps app earlier version to Apple, since as apps user, I expect the more recent competitor to have release an app, which is superior to earlier competitor's app and learned from their mistakes. Google Maps did have issues, but how can you compare that version with Apple Maps today. Lets be fair and because we love Apple make irrational comments.

Edited by souliisoul - 12/10/12 at 11:17am

 

Except they wouldn't have.

 

… Yes? What else would they use? What do you expect them to use? What does land area have to do with it? Seems to me they'd be more likely to use it than anyone else.

 

1. How is that sarcasm?

2. You still haven't explained how that's "better", given that it's probably objectively worse.

 

 

But this couldn't possibly have been known until after the fact. It's like in imagining alternate history when people pretend the tank could have been made earlier; the tank wasn't an obvious concept at the time.

 

No, getting caught up in the hysteria implies just that, not that they had an ax to grind, just that they acted irrationally because they weren't thinking straight.

 

Still dodging. Everyone can see that you are being asked very simple straightforward questions. They can also see why you are trying so hard not to answer them.

"Due to bad cell coverage in the area"
Is this partly to blame too.

Why would I repeat myself when you're ignoring the rest of my posts? I asked what it was that you did not understand from my explanations on those posts and you pretty much ignored both my question and those posts. I pointed out the fact that your question was loaded with a fallacy and you ignored that point too, instead choosing to claim that I am dodging it.


Dude, I've already explained that here! What is it that you do not understand in that post?

PS: Please also don't edit posts after my replies. Thank you!

 

I find nothing irrational about making a statement in the interest of public safety after MULTIPLE recurring instances. In my opinion, you simply come across as an Apple apologist that is sour grapes because it happened to be iOS Maps that was the offending application.

I found this interesting. I was thinking as I read this thread that anyone that uses a free apps in a remote location where they could get lost for 24 hours without food and water isn't very smart. While I don't like Apple maps because I do feel it could be better I would never use any free app if I was in a place where I could die if the map was incorrect. I use Google/Apple maps to get around traffic or to find a place for the first time.

 

I remember an issue like this with Facebook years ago when Facebook went down. There were people that wanted to sue Facebook because when it went down it hurt their business. So they were going to sue a company that gave them something for free.

    Apple Maps not used in Russia, since I went their for conference and many locally said it was used for couple of weeks and then went back to Google maps or their in-car nav system.

 

2. I just giving my opinion, do not have to explain to you how it is better, since you have not explained how it is worse.

      Beta testing is standard practise before you roll out an app, Apple could have done it better!

 

Maybe it's because they haven't done anything like that in the past? I mean, if no one has ever gotten lost in Australia using any other mapping service, or they issued similar warnings on those occasions, then I'll retract my criticism and admit I was wrong about that. Otherwise, my criticism stands.

Well at least you wear your double standard on your sleeve.

 

Taking away a mapping system entirely, giving no replacement, doesn't automatically sound "worse" to you?

 

Of course you should explain this.

 

Sorry, but the post you linked to doesn't at all explain why Google Maps doesn't have to be perfect because it's being replaced, so, no, you still haven't explained why we should accept a double standard, or, if you reject that interpretation, how that doesn't establish a double standard.

 

Still laughing at your PS, though. Yes, we're all here to serve you.

Did not say take away the maps system entirely, you said that, I said it should have been rolled out to NA for beta testing, as i said you read what you want to read.

 

Mt exact words cut and paste for your review 'Apple should have rolled out maps to North America subscribers only and undertake some field testing, since North America has the biggest users of navigation systems in the world and the most complete mapping details for a country'.

 

In there I did not say use Apple Maps only, just thought people would understand that I was saying field test Apple Maps with Google Maps. Only issue with my comment maybe Google would not allow this practice!

Not all cases of double standards are irrational.

 

According to the Victoria police, the amount of rescues required in the last 2 months has been unprecedented. They had to rescue 6 people in the last 2 months alone; all attributed to iOS maps. While I'm sure other people get lost using other mapping applications as well, there is a big difference between arriving to your location to find that your starbucks is not actually there, and being directed into the middle of nowhere.

 

The biggest problem I see is why was this not addressed earlier? Certainly after a life-threatening incidence, this was reported to Apple as an error. Where is all this "crowd sourcing" we have been hearing about? Why does it take a media frenzy to finally get something like this fixed in iOS maps. To me, that is the much bigger issue...

 

So the police issuing a warning the public that Apple Maps was the cause of multiple instances of tourists getting dangerously lost is "not thinking straight"?

 

They're trying to avoid putting any more human lives at risk.  And also saving the valueable resources needed to make the rescues by nipping the situation in the bud (of course, if they have to rescue them, they have to rescue them). Seems like they're thinking pretty straight to me.

I'm a big fan of national parks and travel to one or more per year. The US was the first to officially establish one, Yellowstone, in 1872. I also enjoy my TomTom app on my iPhone. That said, I have never once thought to use an electronic map in the park. Perhaps it's different in Australia than in the US but they usually offer comprehensive maps near or at the entrance of the park.

 

I'm guessing that wan't a practical option. Most speculation has been that Apple's contract with Google for mapping data expires in June 2013, thus, most likely, in the middle of an iOS development cycle, with the next version not due till the Fall. So, basically, Apple had to either put its mapping software on iOS 6.0, or wait till iOS 7.0 (because they wouldn't have wanted to divert significant resources in the middle of developing iOS 7.0). The latter would have meant they would have been forced to sign a new contract with Google, on Google's terms, which would probably not have been a good thing for anyone but Google.

Yes it does, in my explanation as to why people have more reason to expect quality from Apple Maps than they ever did from Google Maps. If people don't have reason to expect quality from Google Maps, it follows that Google Maps does not have to be perfect.


Nope, but if you wish to have a rational debate (something I'm strongly beginning to doubt) you will want the people who are arguing against to read all your points, and editing your posts after they've been replied to makes it harder, not to mention that to anyone reading the thread, your edited posts make it sound like the person you're replying to is ignoring your points, when in fact they were made after the person replied to you.

 

So, what are the statistics on other mapping services and rescues required? I mean, we need to understand what unprecedented means in this context.

 

Right, because no one ever gets lost using other software? 

 

Just by way of contrast, for search and rescue operations, at least in my district including National Parks and National Forest, we have moved substantially over to electronic mapping.