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Inaccurate Apple Maps directions causes 'life threatening issue' for travelers, says Australian... - Page 8

post #281 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by werdnanotroh View Post

You aren't an Australian, so you wouldn't know how bad the maps are here... They're pretty freakin bad!

 

I'm a fanboy, but I'm not going to lie... Apple maps are hopeless down under.

Embarrassing for mindless idiots...? In Australia, we have 4+ hrs gaps between towns (even longer). If you don't know where you're going, you're going to rely on your maps. If they aren't accurate, that's the fault of the map provider, not the user.

 

It's not like he drove randomly into the outback. He drove along a highway to a town, and his maps told him to turn (there aren't a lot of signs on some of our roads) so he wouldn't have had any reason to assume he was going the wrong way.

I think the thing we all learn from this, is maps aren't perfect. I don't know why you're on the defence of Apple? They stuffed up... Apple are human too... Why do you think Apple apologised and a guy got fired over Apple Maps? Because they're really bad. lol

 


Kudos to you for trying to educate him about anything outside of the US but I think it's going to fall on deaf ears.  He's too focused on defending his technology choice and his favourite company to understand the issues that the other 95% of the world are facing.

post #282 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post


Yes it does, in my explanation as to why people have more reason to expect quality from Apple Maps than they ever did from Google Maps. If people don't have reason to expect quality from Google Maps, it follows that Google Maps does not have to be perfect.
Nope, but if you wish to have a rational debate (something I'm strongly beginning to doubt) you will want the people who are arguing against to read all your points, and editing your posts after they've been replied to makes it harder, not to mention that to anyone reading the thread, your edited posts make it sound like the person you're replying to is ignoring your points, when in fact they were made after the person replied to you.

 

That's why they put that little, "Edited by _____  - Today at ______" bit there.

 

 

Quote:
If people don't have reason to expect quality from Google Maps, it follows that Google Maps does not have to be perfect.

 

So, then, you're saying Google Maps isn't very good, but that's ok, Apple should have stuck with it anyway, because it was there?

post #283 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

 

So, what are the statistics on other mapping services and rescues required? I mean, we need to understand what unprecedented means in this context.

 

Considering that you are the one questioning the behavior of the Victoria police, shouldn't you be looking for these? I would think that one would have this information before judging the experts and calling their actions "irresponsible".

 

For my part, I am completely willing to accept the statements from the authorities and defer to their expertise until presented with a plausible reason to not do so.

post #284 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by zippy2shoes View Post


Kudos to you for trying to educate him about anything outside of the US but I think it's going to fall on deaf ears.  He's too focused on defending his technology choice and his favourite company to understand the issues that the other 95% of the world are facing.

Issue is not to rely on electronic map, but have old fashioned paper map for back-up and emergencies. In Australia 80% or more is just desert and wasteland, so I think you should have emergency gear in your car, If you travelling interstate or far distances.

 

It's only because the company is Apple, why this has been newsworthy, come on now, does any one not think that Google Maps has not lead many people astray over the years, lets get a reality check here!

 

BUT Apple could have done better before the release.

post #285 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by e_veritas View Post

 

Considering that you are the one questioning the behavior of the Victoria police, shouldn't you be looking for these? I would think that one would have this information before judging the experts and calling their actions "irresponsible".

 

For my part, I am completely willing to accept the statements from the authorities and defer to their expertise until presented with a plausible reason to not do so.

 

But, they didn't make a statement on that, to my knowledge. Have they ever made a similar statement regarding any other mapping software? Did they qualify their statement by saying that other mapping software could pose similar risks? Still sounding like they got hysterical.

post #286 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

That's why they put that little, "Edited by _____  - Today at ______
" bit there.

Perhaps, but it's still unreasonable to expect ME to look for ninja edits in any of the 320+ posts in this thread, or the audience to read the dates on all the posts in order to understand the timeline. Furthermore, while the edit time is tracked, the edited content isn't, thus making it impossible to tell whether a point was originally ignored or simply added by a later edit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

So, then, you're saying Google Maps isn't very good, but that's ok, Apple should have stuck with it anyway, because it was there?

Nope, I don't recall mentioning anything about the quality of Google Maps in this thread, so I wonder how you reached that conclusion (this is another framed question).
post #287 of 498

Peeps,

 

So you do not blame Apple for your mistakes, here are the best known online mapping services for many  countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_online_map_services

post #288 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

 

As an Australian, I'd like to take the opportunity to say: Hey, Dumbasses!, make sure you thoroughly test your shit before releasing it.  You never know, someone might be stupid enough to use it.

 

I don't think this is as a matter of testing it. The product is working fine, it is just the data that need 'RECTIFYING'. As this involves the whole world data, it needs third party input i.e. end users to fix this. When the first few people who encountered this problem just moan and blame Apple instead of submitting feedback, it would unnecessarily take longer to fix.
post #289 of 498

Apple Map works like shit here in Thailand.  In 3D flyover, some buildings instead of being tall rectangular objects, they're circular domes.  And most landscape a hundred miles outside of Bangkok is so pixelated it's impossible to make anything out.  It's like they only care about perfecting the major countries and cities from around the world.  What pathetic effort by Apple.

post #290 of 498

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post

... Nope, I don't recall mentioning anything about the quality of Google Maps in this thread, so I wonder how you reached that conclusion (this is another framed question).

 

Just this,

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post

Yes it does, in my explanation as to why people have more reason to expect quality from Apple Maps than they ever did from Google Maps. If people don't have reason to expect quality from Google Maps, it follows that Google Maps does not have to be perfect. ...

 

as an explanation of what this,

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post

... Google Maps does not have to be perfect because it did not replace anything.

 

meant. But now, it seems, you weren't saying anything at all about anything.

 

 

I mean, we've gotten all kinds around here in the past, but I'm not sure anyone has ever been quite as wriggly as you appear to be. So, now that you've denied saying anything about anything, do you have a point?

post #291 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splash-reverse View Post

 

I don't think this is as a matter of testing it. The product is working fine, it is just the data that need 'RECTIFYING'. As this involves the whole world data, it needs third party input i.e. end users to fix this. When the first few people who encountered this problem just moan and blame Apple instead of submitting feedback, it would unnecessarily take longer to fix.

That's like going to a restaurant and the waiter saying your steak is fine, we just didn't cook it enough. 

 

The Product *is* the data. Apple can easily pool the resources to make a beautiful looking app but it does nothing without the data. Nothing.

 

I would say the product is not working fine, but I agree that an undertaking like this is monstrous and needs third party help.

 

BTW, Mildura is still in the middle of a national park.

post #292 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

 

Right, because no one ever gets lost using other software? 

 

But in this case, it wasn't "other software" that caused the tourists to get lost, was it? It was Apple Maps. And the police addressed it strictly as such.

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post #293 of 498
Originally Posted by capoeira4u View Post
Apple Map works like shit here in Thailand.  In 3D flyover, some buildings instead of being tall rectangular objects, they're circular domes.  And most landscape a hundred miles outside of Bangkok is so pixelated it's impossible to make anything out.  It's like they only care about perfecting the major countries and cities from around the world.  What pathetic effort by Apple.

 

Sounds just like Google at launch.

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post #294 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by e_veritas View Post

 

Considering that you are the one questioning the behavior of the Victoria police, shouldn't you be looking for these? I would think that one would have this information before judging the experts and calling their actions "irresponsible".

 

For my part, I am completely willing to accept the statements from the authorities and defer to their expertise until presented with a plausible reason to not do so.

 

Well you have the all-mighty Annonymouse telling you that he is correct and the Victoria Police are wrong. You should clearly take his internet forum authority over the Victoria Police.

 

/s  ;-)

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post #295 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by capoeira4u View Post

Apple Map works like shit here in Thailand.  In 3D flyover, some buildings instead of being tall rectangular objects, they're circular domes.  And most landscape a hundred miles outside of Bangkok is so pixelated it's impossible to make anything out.  It's like they only care about perfecting the major countries and cities from around the world.  What pathetic effort by Apple.

Sounds just like Google at launch.

So Apple is on par with 7 year old technology?
post #296 of 498
Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post
So Apple is on par with 7 year old technology?

 

Nice try.

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post #297 of 498
I've noticed since Maps launched putting virtually any non major NSW city into search and the pin is either miles away (say Parkes, NSW) or on the towns edge (say Orange, NSW), and Tom Tom Australia have done nothing to fix. Strange thing is put a specific street address in one of those towns and it seems to be precise.
post #298 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post

... Nope, I don't recall mentioning anything about the quality of Google Maps in this thread, so I wonder how you reached that conclusion (this is another framed question).

Just this,


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post

Yes it does, in my explanation as to why people have more reason to expect quality from Apple Maps than they ever did from Google Maps. If people don't have reason to expect quality from Google Maps, it follows that Google Maps does not have to be perfect. ...

as an explanation of what this,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post

... Google Maps does not have to be perfect because it did not replace anything.

meant. But now, it seems, you weren't saying anything at all about anything.

What people can reasonably expect from Google Maps and what Google Maps provides in terms of quality are completely different concepts. Just because Google can get away with crappy quality (because people have no reason to expect better) doesn't imply anything about the actual quality of the service. As I said earlier, you seem to have a huge problem with abstract concepts, and it's extremely evident here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

I mean, we've gotten all kinds around here in the past, but I'm not sure anyone has ever been quite as wriggly as you appear to be. So, now that you've denied saying anything about anything, do you have a point?

Yes, I do have a point and a conclusion too: either you are a retard or just trolling. Either way I think we're done, because your irrationality is fully proven now.
post #299 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Sounds just like Google at launch.

Except Apple should not be launching a product that is comparable to Google years ago, it should be comparable to Google app now. Thats what you do not get and keep referring to Google maps years back.

 

Show me one game software developer that develops a game compared to competitors games, when there were initially launched, thats what you are implying.

 

Please stop comparing Apple maps now with when Google Maps was launched it is weak agrument and makes Apple supporters life much harder to defend and ensure rational comments from non-apple people.

post #300 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

 

But in this case, it wasn't "other software" that caused the tourists to get lost, was it? It was Apple Maps. And the police addressed it strictly as such.

 

Wouldn't it have been prudent for them to first check if this had ever been a problem with other software, you know, to issue an accurate warning, rather than implying by the absence of the mention of other software that one would be safe with it?

post #301 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

I found this interesting. I was thinking as I read this thread that anyone that uses a free apps in a remote location where they could get lost for 24 hours without food and water isn't very smart. While I don't like Apple maps because I do feel it could be better I would never use any free app if I was in a place where I could die if the map was incorrect. I use Google/Apple maps to get around traffic or to find a place for the first time.

I'm a big fan of national parks and travel to one or more per year. The US was the first to officially establish one, Yellowstone, in 1872. I also enjoy my TomTom app on my iPhone. That said, I have never once thought to use an electronic map in the park. Perhaps it's different in Australia than in the US but they usually offer comprehensive maps near or at the entrance of the park.

 

That's a real shame....  National Parks and Scenic areas could/should be a fantastic experience in 3D FlyOver... for planning and for touring.

 

To get an idea of what I mean, have a look at JungFrauJoch, Paria Canyon, Mt Hood, Mt Fuji...

 

Unfortunately, some areas like Canyon De Chelly, Yosemite, Grand Canyon are less than they could be...

 

 

BTW,  If you haven't been to Grand Canyon, here's what I recommend:

 

Drive to Williams AZ, then take the train to Grand Canyon -- to arrive after dark.

 

Stay at El Tovar... and don't peek!

 

When you wake up in the morning you will absolutely be blown away!

 

 

Anyway, one of the great potentials for Apple Maps, IMO, is 3D Flyover for tour planning and tour taking!  Tourist destinations should pay Apple to 3D Map their  areas.

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post #302 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post

What people can reasonably expect from Google Maps and what Google Maps provides in terms of quality are completely different concepts. Just because Google can get away with crappy quality (because people have no reason to expect better) doesn't imply anything about the actual quality of the service. As I said earlier, you seem to have a huge problem with abstract concepts, and it's extremely evident here.

 

So, are you saying it doesn't matter how bad Google Maps was, that any replacement of it had to be perfect, not just better, or even as good as? And, that you have no opinion on the quality of Google Maps and that it's an irrelevant issue?

 

Or, are you just writing in the "abstract" with no actual relevance to the issue of this thread?

post #303 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

 

Wouldn't it have been prudent for them to first check if this had ever been a problem with other software, you know, to issue an accurate warning, rather than implying by the absence of the mention of other software that one would be safe with it?

 

Then you would be implying that the police should tell everyone to not go to Mildura at all. If all other mapping solutions have problems, then we shouldn't use any of them at all and just stay put, that being the safest of all situations.

 

Ironic that your request is actually walks into the territory of hysteria more than the simple statement the police put out.

 

 

Either way, like I said, I'm sure that your request was fulfilled when the police asked them what led the tourists into their particular situation. I'm sure the tourist would have said something along the lines of "Apple Maps told me to use this route." And maybe even showed the police. Seeing as, according to the police, the above repeated itself more times than usual, it only takes 5th grade reasoning to conclude that Apple Maps was causing tourists unfamiliar with the area to get lost.

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post #304 of 498
Originally Posted by souliisoul View Post
Except Apple should not be launching a product that is comparable to Google years ago, it should be comparable to Google app now. Thats what you do not get and keep referring to Google maps years back.

 

Again, that's not the point.

 

Google Maps launched in the US and Canada. First addition? Japan. Second addition? The Moon.

 

Yep. The Moon.

 

It rolled out to other countries (and even subsets thereof) later. And it got things wrong in every single one of them. Got things wrong in the US, too.

Apple, on the other hand, did the whole world at once. They're quite comparable, ignoring timeframes.

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post #305 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

So, are you saying it doesn't matter how bad Google Maps was, that any replacement of it had to be perfect, not just better, or even as good as? And, that you have no opinion on the quality of Google Maps and that it's an irrelevant issue?

Nope, again, the replacement does not have to be perfect, only at least as good as what is replaced, and I fail to understand how you could deduce otherwise, especially when I've already demonstrated that such a deduction is completely flawed. You seem to love loaded questions for some reason. Do you really expect me to fall for one? I'm not that basic...

Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Or, are you just writing in the "abstract" with no actual relevance to the issue of this thread?

Neither.
post #306 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

 

Then you would be implying that the police should tell everyone to not go to Mildura at all. If all other mapping solutions have problems, then we shouldn't use any of them at all and just stay put, that being the safest of all situations.

 

Ironic that your request is actually walks into the territory of hysteria more than the simple statement the police put out.

 

No, I wouldn't be implying that at all. In fact, I explicitly stated they should have gotten their facts straight and made a statement based on the facts rather than issuing a statement with misleading implications.

post #307 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post


Nope, again, the replacement does not have to be perfect, only at least as good as what is replaced, and I fail to understand how you could deduce otherwise, especially when I've already demonstrated that such a deduction is completely flawed. You seem to love loaded questions for some reason. Do you really expect me to fall for one? I'm not that basic...

 

So, is it your position that Apple Maps isn't as good as Google Maps, or that it's fine as a replacement for them?

post #308 of 498
As of this minute, the problem still hasn't been rectified. Why not? Don't they read the news? The police did take the unprecedented action to contact Apple. How hard is it to move a friggen pin on a map? Apple obviously don't give a shit that glaring issues like this don't warrant immediate action. The error is an embarrassment, the lack of action is pathetic. It seems its more important making the 3D pictures look "purdy", instead of getting the data correct. Yes, the users should have checked before going off the highway, but the error should never had existed in the first place. Mildura has been in the same place for over 100 years, but Apple know better? You can't excuse this, it's plain and simple. My daughter last week was misdirected by Apple maps while driving through a major Australian city. She didn't know where she was and ended up lost. It's obvious you can't reply on Apple to do something others have been doing for a decade now. Until it happens to you, you shouldn't judge others just to protect Apples poor work. It isn't a small thing.
post #309 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Again, that's not the point.

 

Google Maps launched in the US and Canada. First addition? Japan. Second addition? The Moon.

 

Yep. The Moon.

 

It rolled out to other countries (and even subsets thereof) later. And it got things wrong in every single one of them. Got things wrong in the US, too.

Apple, on the other hand, did the whole world at once. They're quite comparable, ignoring timeframes.

wish Apple had only rolled out to US, since that would have been more rational approach, but I understand the arguments, why it could not happen. I do remember when Google maps was released for Moon, what a gimmick!

post #310 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

So, is it your position that Apple Maps isn't as good as Google Maps, or that it's fine as a replacement for them?

Yes, there's lots of evidence of that thus making it factual, ranging from missing features to missing or inaccurate data that Google Maps gets right to the less forgiving search functionality. While Apple Maps may have things that Google Maps lacks, that doesn't make it as good as Google Maps. As long as Google Maps is better than Apple Maps at something, Apple Maps won't be a suitable replacement for it.
post #311 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post

Not all cases of double standards are irrational.

Is that supposed to be a justification for your double standard?

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post #312 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Is that supposed to be a justification for your double standard?

Nope, the justification was already given: Apple Maps replaced Google Maps, but Google Maps didn't replace anything. Different conditions justify different standards.
post #313 of 498
OK I don't get the comparisons to Google maps from 7 years ago. Fact is Apple waited this long to get into the mapping business and people are going to compare it to other established mapping services. Why exactly does Apple feel it needs to be in the mapping business anyway? Is it just for data mining? Is there no other service besides Google's that they could have used?
post #314 of 498
After doing some more checking, it has become apparent that Bendigo in Victoria, Australia is also in the middle of nowhere. In the middle of Wellsford Forrest to be exact. **** me, this is just bewildering.
post #315 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

It wasn't great. No TBT. No vector graphics. Forced to allow customer data to feed back into the Google data mines like that scene in Temple of Doom where all the kids are working in that underground cavern.
It was a tough spot for Apple and another would have been better, but they didn't have another year. They made the best choice from a bad situation, but fear not because it's a temporary situation, just as Google Maps was worse than Map Quest at the start.
The only thing to fault Apple for is over promising and under delivering instead of acknowledging up front that there will be some growing pains but that Apple Maps will be the best maps in the world in a lot less time than it took Google to get its maps straightened out.

And Apple is data mining right now?
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post #316 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post


Yes, there's lots of evidence of that thus making it factual, ranging from missing features to missing or inaccurate data that Google Maps gets right to the less forgiving search functionality. While Apple Maps may have things that Google Maps lacks, that doesn't make it as good as Google Maps. As long as Google Maps is better than Apple Maps at something, Apple Maps won't be a suitable replacement for it.

 

Oh, can you link to some of that evidence? And by evidence, I mean object comparisons, not anecdotal, incidental stories. Because, so far, no one has been able to provide a link to this evidence. I knew you'd know where we could find the evidence.

post #317 of 498
Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post
As long as Google Maps is better than Apple Maps at something, Apple Maps won't be a suitable replacement for it.

 

Wait, you're actually using this as your argument?

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post #318 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kr00 View Post

As of this minute, the problem still hasn't been rectified. Why not? Don't they read the news? The police did take the unprecedented action to contact Apple. How hard is it to move a friggen pin on a map? Apple obviously don't give a shit that glaring issues like this don't warrant immediate action. The error is an embarrassment, the lack of action is pathetic. It seems its more important making the 3D pictures look "purdy", instead of getting the data correct. Yes, the users should have checked before going off the highway, but the error should never had existed in the first place. Mildura has been in the same place for over 100 years, but Apple know better? You can't excuse this, it's plain and simple. My daughter last week was misdirected by Apple maps while driving through a major Australian city. She didn't know where she was and ended up lost. It's obvious you can't reply on Apple to do something others have been doing for a decade now. Until it happens to you, you shouldn't judge others just to protect Apples poor work. It isn't a small thing.

 

It's not the map data -- it's Apple's search algorithm.

 

Search for  Mildura airport and it'll take you right there!

 

However, If I were Apple, I would modify the search to allow it to search for "known issues" first to allow for quick fixes such as this.  (call it a "known Issues" smart folder)

 

 

Apple Maps == OK

 

Apple Maps Search == Sucks!

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post #319 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kr00 View Post

After doing some more checking, it has become apparent that Bendigo in Victoria, Australia is also in the middle of nowhere. In the middle of Wellsford Forrest to be exact. **** me, this is just bewildering.

 

Probably for exactly the same reason as mentioned previously regarding Mildura. Bendigo is also an administrative region as listed in the state government GIS, and the database is returning the region rather than the city.

post #320 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

 

No, I wouldn't be implying that at all. In fact, I explicitly stated they should have gotten their facts straight and made a statement based on the facts rather than issuing a statement with misleading implications.

 

People are getting lost in a dangerous part of Australia: Fact

The people the police rescued were using Apple Maps: Fact (until someone proves to me otherwise)

The users of Apple Maps were unfamiliar with the area: Fact

Apple Maps shows Mildura as in the middle of a national park of Australia: Fact

The users were thinking they were making a simple highway drive and thus didn't see a reason to need to pack survival gear: Fact

Apple Maps led these particular people way off course into a dangerous situation they were not prepared for: Fact

 

It seems to me that the police got their facts straight.

 

If anything, your request is actually what would put more people in danger, as you're basically telling us all that Apple Maps is not to blame and there's nothing wrong with it in Australia.

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