Inaccurate Apple Maps directions causes 'life threatening issue' for travelers, says Australian... - Page 9

 

People are getting lost in a dangerous part of Australia: Fact

The people the police rescued were using Apple Maps: Fact (until someone proves to me otherwise)

The users of Apple Maps were unfamiliar with the area: Fact

Apple Maps shows Mildura as in the middle of a national park of Australia: Fact

The users were thinking they were making a simple highway drive and thus didn't see a reason to need to pack survival gear: Fact

Apple Maps led these particular people way off course into a dangerous situation they were not prepared for: Fact

 

It seems to me that the police got their facts straight.

 

If anything, your request is actually what would put more people in danger, as you're basically telling us all that Apple Maps is not to blame and there's nothing wrong with it in Australia.

A poster on Slashdot suggests that maps is pinning the location to the centre of the LGA, where the LGA and the principal city within it share the same name.
 

http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3305149&cid=42240717

 

Interesting. I can't think of too many case where in mapping app I would choose a less precise location over a more precise one. Yes, I know some of you can concoct *something*, but typically, I'm looking for a location, not a locality.

No need for links, Google Street View is available on Google Maps, but Apple Maps doesn't implement anything similar, so Apple Maps can't replace that.

 

Well, he figures if he recasts his argument in that vein, he can maintain he's right, based on his premise at least. It's a bit of a joke, sure, but lets play along. 

 

http://theamazingios6maps.tumblr.com/

 

There you go. If you look through them, you'll see some side-by-side comparisons of the same location in Apple Maps and Google Maps.

 

To be fair, Google maps didn't have voice command integration 7 years ago, and iOS maps at least has Siri integration. 7 years ago, saying the following phrases to your mapping application would have been futile:

 

"Where the heck are we, Siri?"

"Siri, this abandoned coal mine doesn't look like a Starbucks to me"

"Will I need 4 wheel drive to get over this crazy looking bridge in 3D view Siri?"

 

That has been pointed out several times already in this thread.

Not packing a survival kit in Australia is not smart, I am not saying this caused them to get in danger or is the main reason, but ask any sensible Australian or Kiwi and you should always have your survival kit in your car. Just for that reason, unexpected!

 

So, all the other mapping software is perfectly safe then? No chance of getting lost in a dangerous area? Glad we sorted that out. As long as people use some other mapping solution, there is absolutely nothing to fear. Thanks.

 

NO DOUBLE STANDARD HERE!

 

As we all know, there's nothing about that site that qualifies it as an objective comparison. Perhaps you didn't understand the question.

 

Of course Apple is data mining...

 

It's what they do based on that data!  

 

Google tracks you and sells your data to advertisers.  

 

Apple tracks you, uses your data to improve your UX -- and only provides aggregate data to 3rd-parties.

 

I suspect that this is the issue that prevented Apple and Google from reaching an agreement to bring all the "new" [Android] map features to iOS6 and iDevices

 

Oh, I see. You aren't concerned with the overall quality of the mapping data, just a feature checklist. I think you're posting in the wrong thread, that's not what this discussion is about.

Are u for real!!!!!

 

The computer says NO!

Or perhaps you can define "objective" so that we can scrutinize the application of your definition to the context of this debate.

 

Granted. But these are tourists we're talking about. The public at-large is relatively stupid.

 

Hell, I live in the urban US and I still have a decent safety kit in my car. I should probably get some road flares for the coming winter.

Maybe the intended word wasn't travelling

That deduction is irrational. Just because I mentioned a concrete case doesn't mean that case is the only thing I care about. I only mentioned one case because that was all it took to refute you; it doesn't make sense to read into it.

Go on without him? How could you wish someone dead because of mutual name calling? That's just mean!

 

You ask for non-anecdotal evidence. I show you pictures users took from Apple Maps on their device. You still say that doesn't qualify as evidence. What is your definition of objective? All I see is people posting the mistakes in Apple Maps that they've come across in their use of it. You have to admit that those are some pretty glaring mistakes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but so far, Google Maps doesn't have a satellite view of an area in three different shades like a Neapolitan ice cream sandwich. 

 

So I'm guessing I'll have to personally show up to your house and bring up all the places listed on that post to satisfy you?

Thankfully Apple quickly fixed another dangerous error near my house. Just moved to the area. The shortest route directed my to drive off a four metre cliff because the map data confused two no-through roads with a single road. In the dark it may have been difficult to spot.

Fact: Instead of turning around and going back the way they came, they left their vehicle and wandered around for 24 hours.

Fact: There are signs that you are entering a national park.

Fact: It is entirely implausible that there was NO warning that they weren't going to get where they were going.

Fact: There are other examples posted earlier in this thread where other navigation systems have created problems (including at least some deaths). No one ever said that Apple Maps was perfect, but neither is any other navigation system out there.

Fact: The problem didn't come up for the months after Apple Maps was released - and then suddenly "a number of people" are all affected at once.

Fact: ALL of the people affected just happened to enter the city name rather than a street address (which would have been mapped properly).

Sounds to me like:
a. Australia suddenly gave drivers' licenses to some intensely stupid people.
or
b. The entire thing was orchestrated.
Edited by jragosta - 12/10/12 at 1:15pm

 

Well, no, you haven't refuted anything because the entire discussion is about the relative quality of the mapping data. You comment about street view doesn't address that at all. So, what you've done is make an irrelevant comment.

Come on that is even worst, you go into different country and not have a reliable  paper map and only use electronic map in unknown area, come on, that stinks of stupidity. It sound like when I travelled from Ramona CA to las Vegas using my Nav system and wondered why I took so long instead of reading signs on the way and recalbrating the system.

Common sense is forgotten to technology nowadays!

 

Awesome! Thanks for point that out to me.

 

I'm just answering his question about showing evidence that Apple Maps is as bad as people are saying it is.

The branch of the discussion we're in has strayed from that a long time ago thus making it irrelevant for you to bring this up because when I posted my first reply to this branch it was already derailed. Don't ignore the context of a discussion that you willingly joined just because it's not convenient to you anymore.

 

I gave a link at the beginning of this thread that illustrates what is meant by an objective comparison. So far, no one has been able to provide even a single link using similar or equivalent methodology to show that Google's map data or search results are better than Apple's, even in a similarly limited area. People on both sides of the issue can point to specific instances or where both are laughably wrong, but if you're going to make comprehensive claims, you need to provide comprehensive evidence.

Let's try to put this simply - although if your previous posts are any indication, you'll simply obfuscate or refuse to comply. (Same thing applies to Asian Bob. A few pictures does not prove anything. Try to follow along).

1. There are errors in Apple Maps. That is indisputable. The number has not been defined.

2. There are errors in Google Maps. That is indisputable. The number has not been defined.


Now, unless you have evidence that the number in (1) is greater than the number in (2), then your repeated claim that Apple Maps is worse than Google Maps is false.

Simply saying "there are lots of errors in Apple Maps" does not prove that. Simply saying "some of the errors in Apple Maps are things that Google Maps got right" does not prove it. You need to be able to show that the number of errors in Apple Maps is greater than the number of errors in Google Maps for your argument to be correct. So where is the evidence supporting that claim?

(You may go run and hide, as usual, now).

Surely, in modern times, no map made by a professional would be 40 miles off. So they would either have a (reasonably) accurate map of a given place or no map at all. So what has happened here? Some kind of database loader program error? It's just odd.

 

I guess that's why none of your comments make any sense. You were talking about something unrelated the whole time.

 

Which rule # is that, I wonder?

And I demonstrated that the link you provided did not back up your claims and even mentioned some cases where Google maps is better (like the search), thus refuting your point.

 

He was talking about something else, no one knew, our bad. (We still haven't been able to pin down exactly what he was talking about, of course.)

Not my fault if you are incapable of following the context of a thread... I came late and managed to do it; you seem to be the only confused party here...

Prove that no one knew. So far, the only one who seems to be confused is you... I even asked, several times, exactly what it was that you were not understanding, and you never replied to my questions, implying that you actually understood, which I am now interpreting as a reaction of shame.

 

Given that the link did not declare Google Maps better, not even in search (Google Maps more likely to return a search result but search result more likely to be nonsense hardly qualifies as better.) it's hard to see how you refuted anything, especially when you weren't talking about the quality of the mapping data, but just a feature comparison. Oh, right, you said it refutes it, I get it.

 

Now you've stooped to rewriting history?

 

Wondering Around: I'll give you that one. I have no idea why they would wonder around. Only thought is that they might have run out of gas.

 

Signs: If you go under the assumption they are tourists, what makes you believe that crossing through a park wasn't part of the route? Espeically if the route on their trusted device is saying to go through it. I make this assumption because local people would know that's not the way and would not have gone that way to begin with.

 

Other Devices: But the motorists weren't using "other navigation devices", now were they?

 

Timing: That is a good question. Maybe most people figured it out, but as said, there are plenty of stupid people in the world. Usually trends take a while before the police issue statements.

 

Sounds to me like:

A. Australia does have stupid people (welcome to the rest of the world?)

B. Motorists unfamiliar with the area used Apple Maps and got lost

C. The whole thing was orchestrated alright. In your head. *cue tin foil hat music*

Well, no. Proper response would have been for the police to tell people not to rely on GPS without thinking (as the police did in the Death Vally case). When the police single out Apple Maps, it sends an implied message that other mapping solutions are foolproof - which is not the case.

Proper response: "do not rely on any GPS solution. Make sure you are prepared with water and supplies. And if you get lost, either stay where you are until help arrives or turn around and retrace your path"

Improper response: "Apple Maps is dangerous".


I'm just curious where you came up with that. Who ever said that Apple shouldn't improve their product?

Please stop with the straw man arguments.

Exactly.

Don't blame us that you never took a critical thinking course and don't know what evidence is.

Here, I'll repeat it for you:
So, if you're going to continue to claim that Apple Maps is worse than Google Maps, you must be able to show that #1 is greater than #2. So where is the evidence of that?

That's not given, and you also seem to lack reading comprehension (which does not surprise me anymore, as you can guess by my previous replies to you). What the article that you linked to says is the following:

This doesn't mean Google returns crap; what it means is that Google understands what you want better. I even gave an example of such a case in this thread when I mentioned the problems I have with Apple Maps not recognizing characters such as 'a', 'á', 'à', and 'ã' as representing the same letter in searches.

You're forgetting that Vaelian has some magic logic powers. Earlier in this thread, for example, he told me that he had already refuted every argument I had ever made as well as any argument I would ever make in the future.

It's amazing how someone like that with no concept of what logic entails can post so many posts full of drivel.