Inaccurate Apple Maps directions causes 'life threatening issue' for travelers, says Australian... - Page 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by jragosta 


This is nonsense. EVERY mapping system has flaws. There is absolutely no evidence that Apple's Maps is any worse than any of the other mapping systems. Sure, you can find errors in Apple's Maps that don't appear on Google Maps and vice versa, but in the few cases where people have done large scale comparisons, Apple comes out looking just as good as Google.
So where's your evidence that they didn't test it thoroughly enough? Anecdotes don't count.
I suspect they were put up to it by Google or another of Apple's competitors. It didn't happen for months after the release of Apple Maps and suddenly there are a string of the exact same error involving people who use Apple Maps to go to the same small remote city and are all too stupid to realize that there's a problem? Sounds like a set up.
I've used quite a few mapping systems. Mapquest. Google Maps (computer). Google Maps (Android). TomTom. Garmin. Four different car navigation systems. And every single one of them has had some problems, so only an idiot would blindly follow the technology into a dangerous situation. Didn't anyone bother to read the street signs? Learn a little bit about the area before wandering in? And didn't it look suspicious when the road turned into a narrow walking trail (or no trail at all)? If it's not a set up, then these people truly are candidates for the Darwin Award.

I think you'd be completely wrong there, mate. If you actually use your friend Google, you will see a lot of local Australian press have complained about Apple Maps. This isn't an isolate incidence. The reason this one got national press, is because the guy could have died. 

I don't claim that Google is perfect, far from it. But I've never personally had troubles finding a town, or a town marker using Google Maps. I have more than 5 times with Apple Maps. Anecdotes do count... Because that's what this article is about. 

Sounds set up? America is the land of the conspiracy, not Australia... But in saying that Google are localised here ;) 

And many people do blindly follow these maps, why would they have any reason to believe they would have a town so far away from it's actual location? 

http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/mobiles/apples-maps-its-worst-software-product-yet-20120927-26mgz.html 
- this is like 2 hours from it's actual location... furthermore, many Australian towns don't even have names. Apple Maps is very bad in Australia. Sorry. True.

 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by stehsegler 

The real issue is that in iOS 5 the maps app worked incredibly well for Australia. So well in fact that I would blindly trust it. With iOS 6 it's pretty much useless. There are so many errors in both the maps as well as the business search results I have given up on it completely.
To me it's incomprehensible why they wouldn't revert back to the Google Maps based App for the time being until they resolve the issues with iOS 6.
I am sure it's just a matter of time before they will be hit with a massive law suit.

FYI: Maps in iOS5 actually worked... For it to be making news, and in particular national news, is a big deal. I hope Apple actually try to fix the maps in Australia now. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by jragosta 

The few comparisons that were done show that Apple Maps is no worse than Google Maps (in some places, like China, it's demonstrably better).

Got a link to these comparisons?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jragosta 


No, it's embarrassing for the mindless trolls who attack Apple without determining whether the problem is unique to Apple. EVERY mapping system has problems. The few comparisons that were done show that Apple Maps is no worse than Google Maps (in some places, like China, it's demonstrably better).
It's also embarrassing for mindless idiots who go marching into remote areas with no water or preparation and are not bright enough to figure out that they're in the wrong place.
Finally, it's very embarrassing for Apple's competitors who probably set this up. Give me a break - for months after the release of Apple Maps, nothing happens and then all of the sudden "a number of" people get lost going to the same small town and using the same Apple Maps directions. And all of them get rescued by the police. And the police immediately blame Apple's Maps rather than the people who are too stupid to pay attention to where they're going? It really sounds like the kind of stunt Google would pay people to do.

No, it's embarrassing for Apple to make a huge blunder like this, period. 

It's the more embarrassing for Apple because the old Apple App/Google data was very decent.

As for your last comment. Snigger. Talk about paranoid. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by jragosta 


No, it's embarrassing for the mindless trolls who attack Apple without determining whether the problem is unique to Apple. EVERY mapping system has problems. The few comparisons that were done show that Apple Maps is no worse than Google Maps (in some places, like China, it's demonstrably better).
It's also embarrassing for mindless idiots who go marching into remote areas with no water or preparation and are not bright enough to figure out that they're in the wrong place.
Finally, it's very embarrassing for Apple's competitors who probably set this up. Give me a break - for months after the release of Apple Maps, nothing happens and then all of the sudden "a number of" people get lost going to the same small town and using the same Apple Maps directions. And all of them get rescued by the police. And the police immediately blame Apple's Maps rather than the people who are too stupid to pay attention to where they're going? It really sounds like the kind of stunt Google would pay people to do.

You aren't an Australian, so you wouldn't know how bad the maps are here... They're pretty freakin bad!

I'm a fanboy, but I'm not going to lie... Apple maps are hopeless down under.

Embarrassing for mindless idiots...? In Australia, we have 4+ hrs gaps between towns (even longer). If you don't know where you're going, you're going to rely on your maps. If they aren't accurate, that's the fault of the map provider, not the user.

It's not like he drove randomly into the outback. He drove along a highway to a town, and his maps told him to turn (there aren't a lot of signs on some of our roads) so he wouldn't have had any reason to assume he was going the wrong way.

I think the thing we all learn from this, is maps aren't perfect. I don't know why you're on the defence of Apple? They stuffed up... Apple are human too... Why do you think Apple apologised and a guy got fired over Apple Maps? Because they're really bad. lol

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Scrip 

Oops... there was NEVER a Walmart at 346 E. Plaza Drive! That address was an old factory... and now it's an indoor go-kart track.
At no point in history was there ever a business named Walmart associated with that particular street address. There should be no database with a Walmart at that address... and not even an old piece of paper in the basement of city hall with a Walmart at that address. So why does Apple think there is a Walmart at 346 E. Plaza Drive? How did that happen?

Easy... competing map companies always try giving false data to competitors.  Apple cannot fix problems quickly, because they cannot trust people reporting errors, they have to confirm the new data is correct and the old is wrong, or the maps would be in worse shape than they already are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogifan 


I keep hearing about people submitting corrections but they're not getting fixed. I'd be curious to know how big the maps team is at Apple. The impression one gets is they cobbled this together with table scraps and released it before it was ready because they didn't want to wait until the last minute to dump Google. I do wonder if Cook really knew how bad this was. Even if Apple has no choice but to release it I can't imagine Cook allowing it to be presented as being fully baked and flawless when it clearly is a beta product,

You expect them to trust information given by just anyone?  Data must be verified before changing it.

The story above is regrettable if true. However, I've received inaccurate information from Google Maps on several occasions. I also have to periodically "reboot" my devices to re-establish "normal" operation. All such devices or softwares, Apple and otherwise, are not perfect and require patches and updates. This is a reality that us imperfect humans have to accept.

There is a lot of blaming the users here. Its fine to say that the travelers should have used a standard map but

1) In the modern age people tend to use online, or recently downloaded maps, and expect them - particularly the online ones - to be uptodate.

2) This isn't a guy directed to the wrong house on a long street, its a town which is 40 miles out. 40 miles.

Apples problem is it is too America focussed, I am sure the maps were absolutely fine in the Bay area for months before release. 

Maps are hard, it's not just software, which is fine as far as I can see, it's the data stupid.

I am left wondering how anyone ends up stranded 40 miles from anywhere such that they have to walk back and/or be rescued by the authorities.

At what point is the map software supposed to tell you that you that if you continue on you will run out gas or that driving up the side of a mountain is a bad idea - or fording a river might get you stuck. Or for example if you are looking for Mildura and you pass a sign that says Welcome to the National Park - you should stop and say um, something is wrong here. Unless we are talking about folks who do not read English (in any of its variations). 

Yes I agree that Apple should be very aggressive in correcting any and all data errors - but at the same time anyone who drives off the side of a cliff because a piece of software told them they had arrive at their destination is just as much to blame for their predicament. 

A number of problems I have had with navigation where the result of things like data entry errors - putting in 1003 as the address instead of 10003 - or finding a similar looking address and going there because my actual destination was so new it was not in the software yet. At no point in any of my adventures (or mis-advenures) did I feel the need to be rescued by the police - I entered a different destination - or called to find out what was nearby to my destination that I could use as a GPS coordinate. 

Before the introduction of GPS devices I would stop at a gas station or book store and pick up a Street Guide for any area I was going to be spending any amount of time. Or at least when traveling I would scope out the area if possible - fly into a new city the night before a meeting or training etc - drive not only from the airport to the hotel but also to the destination and maybe even back to the airport - to get some sort of familiarity with the area. Even with GPS it can be a good idea to look at some sort of Atlas or generally online map these days to get a basic lay of the land - where are the interstates etc. Sometimes being able to identify that you have missed a turn by looking at street names past where you are going can help you quickly identify that you have gone off track. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by jragosta 


This is nonsense. ...
I suspect they were put up to it by Google or another of Apple's competitors. It didn't happen for months after the release of Apple Maps and suddenly there are a string of the exact same error involving people who use Apple Maps to go to the same small remote city and are all too stupid to realize that there's a problem? Sounds like a set up.
 

Put down those pom-poms and get out of that ridiculous short skirt, it's just not 'you'.  And shave your legs first, next time.

You got me, I have to confess, it's a conspiracy.  Google put me up to it.  I hacked into Apple's systems and messed with the data so Mildura was relocated to the middle of a National Park - you know, just in case a reporter or website tried to verify the error.  I then paid a bunch of people to stage incidents in the National Park that appeared serious and got the Police involved in the fake search and rescues and got them to blame Maps.  I also had to bribe the police to make a public announcement.

It nearly worked too, but we were rumbled by someone on a news blog who saw through our ruse.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cnocbui 

Put down those pom-poms and get out of that ridiculous short skirt, it's just not 'you'.  And shave your legs first, next time.

 

You got me, I have to confess, it's a conspiracy.  Google put me up to it.  I hacked into Apple's systems and messed with the data so Mildura was relocated to the middle of a National Park - you know, just in case a reporter or website tried to verify the error.  I then paid a bunch of people to stage incidents in the National Park that appeared serious and got the Police involved in the fake search and rescues and got them to blame Maps.  I also had to bribe the police to make a public announcement.

 

It nearly worked too, but we were rumbled by someone on a news blog who saw through our ruse.

Those pesky meddling kids foiled your plot. 

It may, or may not be a setup...

Google Maps shows the area where (Apple Maps dropped its pin) as a wilderness area with no access roads... seems as if quite a few people need to be pretty stubbid [sic] to blindly follow any map navigation.

Noteworty:

The TomTom site doesn't highlight Australia as on of the areas they serve.

The osm.org site shows a map comparable to Google Maps.

Kinda' makes you wonder if we couldn't get computers to:

1) weigh information from several sources

2) determine the probability of accuracy by the preponderance of data,  i.e. vote on the results.

AIR that was the [successful] technique used to land men on the moon (and back)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dasanman69 


ALL maps have errors, people rely way too much on technology. Whenever I travel I always pick up a local map at a gas station. Information should always be gathered frommmore than one source.

I grew up using paper based maps and still use them.  I have never personally encountered an error on a map as severe as the one reported here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by werdnanotroh 

If Apple can't localise their products, with all their billions and billions of dollars, and can't make decent maps (or just freaking buy maps that already work) - then don't sell your products to our countries! 

Apple plays nicely with America, you have nothing to complain about. Try using your maps and going to the wrong place, try checking the weather only to find out it's wrong... Apple's Australian localisation is shit... End of story.

Clearly the current maps has a problem finding places when not given a street address, but it's also pretty clear that there are NO buildings anywhere near where that pin is placed.  It's curious to me that people wouldn't check the satellite view before accepting the recommendation from the current version of Apple's maps - I certainly wouldn't, and I'm in the US. If you get the correct destination, it seems to work well, but I've had routes given that were halfway across the country from where I wanted to go and others that were just wrong. (A friend of mine was recently 5 miles from Los Alamos, asked for directions, and was given a route to the Alamo in Texas.)

So no, people here do have something to complain about too, but wouldn't the lack of streets and buildings be a tip-off that the pin isn't on the city you were hoping for? Every mapping system has a disclaimer about possible errors & road signs taking precedence... Why do people not at this point take Apple's disclaimer more seriously?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayz 

 

Right, so in your capacity as Apple's software tester, how would you go have gone about testing for every location that folk are likely to search for?

The same way Google did it.....just saying....they had a perfectly good working product and replaced with an inferior one......

It's been 72 days since Tim's apology letter for Apple Maps...

Unfortunately, we've seen only a few improvements since then.

I think it is time for Apple to publicly:

1) define what they are doing to fix the problems

2) outline what improvements are being made

3) announce when results can be expected

Quote:

Originally Posted by werdnanotroh 

As another Australia, I'd say use reliable mapping data... It seems that the American version of Maps is very good (and also the Chinese version, which has been localised) - perhaps a collaboration with whereis.com (our local mapping service) would be smart? - We have so many towns without 'name markers'.

 

Apple maps are atrocious in Australia.  

None of which has anything to do with testing. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayz 

 

Right, so in your capacity as Apple's software tester, how would you go have gone about testing for every location that folk are likely to search for?

Right, so you are saying all the other map apps are perfectly accurate and wouldn't lead a dumb-ass astray?

Quote:

Originally Posted by geekdad 

The same way Google did it.....just saying....they had a perfectly good working product and replaced with an inferior one......

The same way Google did it? You mean release the product and improve it over time?  The advantage they had was that no one was scrutinising every mistake while they were doing it.

You can still find errors in the Google, even though its been running  a lot longer than the Apple service.

And 'inferior' really depends on what you're using it for and where you're going.  The fact that Google didn't offer turn-by-turn directions makes it inferior in quite for quite a few people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lkrupp 

Right, so you are saying all the other map apps are perfectly accurate and wouldn't lead a dumb-ass astray?

You've replied to the wrong message.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayz 

 

The same way Google did it? You mean release the product and improve it over time?  The advantage they had was that no one was scrutinising every mistake while they were doing it.

 

You can still find errors in the Google, even though its been running  a lot longer than the Apple service.

Correct Google Maps had problems when it was released too!! BUT they also had YEARS to get it right. So Apple had a time proven product and replaced it with one still in TESTING mode....knowing that it would take years to get it right. Then who tested the data? Apple even thought it was a failure... Tim even aplologized for it and FIRED the guy that was responsible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by digitalclips 


My Garmin while programmed to drive to Sarasota, Florida from upstate N York on several occasions told me to turn off an interstate in the middle of nowhere. I will never forget one incident in particular. It was nearly sun set as we drove south on I88 in the wilds of upstate New York with nothing but very bleak moorlands as far as the eye could see. "Take the next turning on your left" she says! I had to unplug the device as the incessant "Make a U turn" was driving me nuts. I commented to my wife at the time that I could imagine a situation like that had potentially dangerous consequences should anyone actually believe such an instruction. I also kept thinking of the novel Bonfire of the Vanities and how a wrong turn was used there.
As others have said, you have to use these tools with a modicum of common sense. I even read now and then of people turning into oncoming traffic and having trible accidents just because a Garmin or what ever device they had tells them to. Would these drivers follow such insane instructions from a passenger? I think not!

Exactly.

http://www.gpsbites.com/top-10-list-of-worst-gps-disasters-and-sat-nav-mistakes

Another Australian here. Australian newspapers are notoriously anti-Apple. I am not surprised one bit that the Sydney Morning Herald ran this article, just as they do anything that remotely criticises Apple. 

There have been many cases of people blindly following GPS directions (or even older paper maps) and clearly there needs to be some common sense applied. Apple's Maps need work - everyone knows that. Apple had to switch for a number of reasons, and there will be some pain in the meantime. Yet this is no different to any other mapping system where the roads change and the data is not updated. I am not going to pay hundreds of dollars to update the GPS DVD in my car, so I need to use common sense. 

These are free mapping solutions and I find it astounding that people put all of their faith in a free map supplied by their phone manufacturer / phone OS maker. 

As for fixing Apple maps, my street was labelled incorrectly (it is a weird parallel road that has the same name as the highway next to it) and I submitted a fix. It was fixed within weeks. This was a very minor issue for an unusual street layout, but it was fixed. If people stop complaining and start "Reporting a Problem", Maps will be fixed very quickly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by geekdad 

Correct Google Maps had problems when it was released too!! BUT they also had YEARS to get it right. So Apple had a time proven product and replaced it with one still in TESTING mode....knowing that it would take years to get it right. Then who tested the data? Apple even thought it was a failure... Tim even aplologized for it and FIRED the guy that was responsible.

So, Apple is testing it the same way Google did. What's your point?

Oh, and this wasn't the only reason Forestall was fired.

Quote:

Originally Posted by enzos 

Said this here at the time of Maps' release. The town & city street maps are from TomTom data.. so no probs.
But the road and rural town data are way out; I don't know WTF they've done there! It's not just Victoria, *most* towns in Australia are location-pinned over 30 kms from their true location. I sent in a few corrections (e.g. my home town) via Maps feedback but gave up when I realised they were ALL wrong! And it would have been so easy to get right before release, just cross reference with Garmin or Google, or look them up in the Britannica Atlas index (doh!)

APT - Anthropogenic Plate Tectonics. You heard it here first! ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayz 

 

So, Apple is testing it the same way Google did. What's your point?

 

Oh, and this wasn't the only reason Forestall was fired.

you really don't get it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elian Gonzalez 

Doesn't anyone know what the notation "sic" means? It's not disparaging the spelling of "travelling" in Australian English, it's so that people do not think it's a mistake on the quoter's part to avoid ambuigity. It's not as common as "colour" which usually does not need a notation.

Rubbish. The passage was clearly quoting an Australian website setting out comments by Australian police. You assume the only audience for AI is American, which is clearly incorrect. Pedantry at its worst.