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post #41 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


Is it a loss leader? Is it a short term sale? It doesn't show on their web site.
Shrinking the device costs money too. I'm sure a higher ppi costs more than the money saved by the area shrink. Then you still have the power consumption, especially since it would need a better chip, with the higher GPU core versions of A5X or A6. Would it still be as light and offer as good battery life? Let's say I have my doubts.

Not sure if it's going to be a permanent markdown or not. The article is over at 9to*.

 

If I was guessing I'd say it a permanent price roll-back, but with the bonus $30 iTunes card only a special for the Holiday's.


Edited by Gatorguy - 12/14/12 at 10:24am
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post #42 of 71
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The fresh rumors come from Taiwanese publication DigiTimes, which cited sources from the backlighting industry as saying Apple's next-gen iPad mini will boast a higher resolution display.

 

The "backlighting industry" needs to make their profits now, because in a few years Apple just might go with IGZO-OLED panels on all their devices with screens.  No backlighting needed, lower power consumption, thinner construction.

 

But in the next year or so, because of Apple's economy of scale, they should be able to ship Retina iPad minis with LCD panels.  And none of their would-be competitors will be able to do that without significantly raising their prices.  Bad news for the wannabes, since their customers seem to be extremely price-conscious.  

 

Apple's competitors will need to choose from these options:

 

1. Continue to sell low resolution pads, giving Apple a significant quality advantage

2. Sell high resolution pads at the old low resolution pad prices, resulting in even bigger losses

3. Sell high resolution pads at higher prices and lose sales in their price-sensitive market segment

 

None of those options are very good.

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post #43 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

I'm not as sure about that anymore. WalMart announced a price cut for the full-size next-gen iPad4 down to $399. I doubt Walmart is taking a loss on them and that price is not far off the Mini.

I'm seeing it as $499 on their site with the comment, " Final price and shipping options depends on options you choose," which makes me wonder if you have to bunch a bunch of accessories with it to get that $399 price. They also list the iPad 2 as $399.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #44 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBillyGoatGruff View Post

 

Or the writer could have meant that it will be coming in the next generation rather than the third or fourth.

 

 

Yes, I am sure he did mean that, but that is precisely the nature of the comments suggesting it's a no brainer. The day the mini was announced without retina, everyone instantly knew that it would be saved for the next model.
post #45 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Not sure if it's going to be a permanent markdown or not. The article is over at 9to*.

If I was guessing I'd say it a permanent price roll-back, but with the bonus $30 iTunes card only a special for the Holiday's.

9to5?
^^
Testing if this site's stupid censoring is at work again.

I didn't see that story. I think it's probably a package deal.
post #46 of 71
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post
9to5?
^^
Testing if this site's stupid censoring is at work again.
I didn't see that story. I think it's probably a package deal.

 

"9to5" has never been censored, but watch this:

 

9

9to

9to5

9to5m

9to5ma

9to5mac

9to5mac.c

9to5mac.co

************

 

I'm going to see if that's a setting I can disable.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #47 of 71

I just bought a iPad Mini.  This would be horrible for me.  

 

I can see only two possibilities if this happens:

 

1) I'll keep using my iPad Mini and be happy with it.

 

2)  I'll  get a retnia iPad Mini.  I'll give my current 4G LTE Mini to the wife.  We will donate her iPad 3G to a family member or charity....

 

Sound truly horrific does it not?

post #48 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post

 

err, double an iPhone 4's screen size. It would be retina (plus some), would allow for the 'doubling' of old iPhone apps to just fit, and would extend the use of the existing glass capacity of the iPhone 4(s) line.  Resolution doubling would apps to 'just work' for a period of time until developers reset their apps to the native resolution, and would ease the transition to 'yet another resolution' until the iPhone 4s is phased out (likely 3 years, if the other rumors of 'inexpensive iPhones' come true).   Once done, then there would be 3 resolutions, the 5(s), the Mini, and the 'new' iPad.  And once  we get new retinas minis, that will pretty much be the end of the resolution wars, and it will be brightness/vividness/3dness/readiabilityness.  But pixels as we know them will stop existing (sort of like baud).

 

That would be horrible.  Doubling the iPhone 4's screen would mean a different aspect ratio for the iPad mini from the other iPads. Sure it would give it a PPI of 288, but the aspect ratio would be 1.5.  The 1.5 aspect ratio is being phased out with the last of which being the iPhone 4S, and no iPad having had that aspect ratio.

 

So the iPad mini would be need to run old iPhone aspect ratio apps.  Keep in mind, Apple decided not to do this for the first generation iPad mini.  So when the iPad mini 2 comes out, it would likely be around the time of the iPhone 6, making the old iPhone aspect ratio apps 2 generations behind.  Worse, those apps wouldn't be in the same resolution as the iPad mini, they would need to be scaled up to that new resolution, which would look worse than the display the iPad mini already has.

 

And for developers, you're no longer asking them to optimize for the iPhone 5 size and the iPad Retina, but also asking them to start developing for a whole new resolution and an aspect ratio that was missing in action from any new iOS devices for 2 years.

 

Apple will likely go the route of using the iPad 3/4 resolution in a couple of years for the iPad mini.  But if for some reason they didn't, they'd be better off using an alternative resolution with the same iPad aspect ratio.

post #49 of 71
Was gonna buy a BMW the other day but held off when I heard that cars will soon be powered by fusion reactors. I heard that they'll be able to run for 100 years on a gallon of water! Saving my money now, so holding off on buying a car with a--get this!--internal combustion engine. What a waste of energy.
post #50 of 71

It seems like most the reviews for the mini are compared to an ipad 3 not 4, and nearly everyones gets over the screen resolution due to the size and weight. I am tempted at the mini and I know there is usually a new one 9 months away. But unless there is some breakthrough in battery tech I dont see how they could keep the same form factor. It took the iphone 4 generations to go retina and 3 for the ipad, so maybe 2 isn't unreasonable for the mini, but I see it as unlikely.
 

post #51 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevt View Post

The 'problem' Apple faces is expectations to keep the iPad Apps working sweetly without modification. This means it has to go either 1024x768 (iPad 1 & 2) or quadruple the pixel count with the 2048x1536 of the 9.7" models.  The latter would give a 326 dpi screen, which is more than Retina on a tablet.

This is overkill - given the 'as good as the human retina' concept. As you imply it would require an A5X or A6X processor for the graphics, and give power (and possibly heat) issues in the smaller case.

It might not be overkill in the ppi sense. If users hold the device closer to make up for the reduced screen size, then it would be equivalent. But there is a practicality issue that you're hitting on too. I don't think it makes sense to expect iPad 3,4 graphics resolution in a smaller and so much cheaper. Smaller technology generally costs more, not less. If the resolution bothers anyone, I say wait until September.
post #52 of 71

All you guys are giving this DigiTimes rumor a lot more credibility than it deserves.

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post #53 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

All you guys are giving this DigiTimes rumor a lot more credibility than it deserves.

I can't speak for anyone else but my comments on this thread are just about the overall probability of the rumour, regardless of the source.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #54 of 71
I think Apple's compressed product cycles are hurting the company. You could count on an annual refresh, which took away some of the 'buyers' remorse' people feel now. I'd love the iPad Mini, but I turned my nose up at it because the Retina version will be coming so soon after the initial launch. Same with the iPhone 5S. Why bother with the iPhone 5 with NFC and 'colors' coming with the 5S. No wonder Wal-Mart is blowing out the 4S and 5 at $47 and $127 respectively. They know what we all do: Compressed life cycles cause people to sit on the sidelines.
post #55 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisNH View Post

I think Apple's compressed product cycles are hurting the company. You could count on an annual refresh, which took away some of the 'buyers' remorse' people feel now. I'd love the iPad Mini, but I turned my nose up at it because the Retina version will be coming so soon after the initial launch. Same with the iPhone 5S. Why bother with the iPhone 5 with NFC and 'colors' coming with the 5S. No wonder Wal-Mart is blowing out the 4S and 5 at $47 and $127 respectively. They know what we all do: Compressed life cycles cause people to sit on the sidelines.

I don't think we can expect to see updates before fall 2013. iPad "4" was a pretty mild update, basically a CPU bump and connector swap, and if the iPhone shift to fall is any indicator, it looks like Apple is merely shifting all iDevice updates to the fall, like the iPods have been for many years.
post #56 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisNH View Post

II'd love the iPad Mini, but I turned my nose up at it because the Retina version will be coming so soon after the initial launch. Same with the iPhone 5S. Why bother with the iPhone 5 with NFC and 'colors' coming with the 5S. No wonder Wal-Mart is blowing out the 4S and 5 at $47 and $127 respectively.

You have absolutely no proof that will happen. The only product that was updated ahead of its usual cycle was the iPad 4 and that was just a lithography, CPU and connector change, and I bet the new connector was the primary reason for the switch.

I don't expect any of these products to be refreshed until Rogue 6 is available, which is looking to be the 2nd half of 2013. I also think it's unlikely for the next iPad (much less one coming right after the new year) to have a 326 PPI 2048x1536 display.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #57 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I don't think we can expect to see updates before fall 2013. iPad "4" was a pretty mild update, basically a CPU bump and connector swap, and if the iPhone shift to fall is any indicator, it looks like Apple is merely shifting all iDevice updates to the fall, like the iPods have been for many years.

I agree with you but that will leave a hole for products in the first part of the year. I think we'll be getting a new Mac Pro and new AirPort devices within a few months, but I feel as though that's not enough. It seems ripe for a new product category to be introduced.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #58 of 71
Well will it have a retina eventually yes but (if yearly releases) but it is probably 2-3 years, it will probably be less than Iphones ppi but more than the full size IPad because I recall Steve Jobs saying about 300 ppi the retina loses sight of the pixels thus a retina display, the full size IPad will probably upgrade quickly to this ppi but by that time we will probably have retina air MacBooks.
post #59 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis Hannah View Post

Well will it have a retina eventually yes but (if yearly releases) but it is probably 2-3 years, it will probably be less than Iphones ppi but more than the full size IPad because I recall Steve Jobs saying about 300 ppi the retina loses sight of the pixels thus a retina display, the full size IPad will probably upgrade quickly to this ppi but by that time we will probably have retina air MacBooks.

The iPad mini is the original iPhone's PPI. It's also the original iPad's resolution. That was chosen very carefully. When the iPad mini becomes retina it will be the same PPI as the current iPhone and same resolution as the current iPad.

300 PPI was only given a base number which implied 10-12" from the face and 20/20(6/6) vision. The 3438 * (1 ÷ x) = y where x and y are interchangeable as PPI or inches from your eyes. This is why the iPad and MBPs are currently Retina display despite being below 300 PPI.

You can use this same equation for your TV. Say your HDTV is 50" 1920x1080. That's a PPI of 44.06. Plug that into the equation and you get the inches from your face that someone with 20/20(6/6) vision would have to sit for it to be the minimum requirement for Apple's Retina classification. 3438 * (1 ÷ 44 PPI ) = 78.02" or 6.5 feet.
Edited by SolipsismX - 12/15/12 at 8:25am

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #60 of 71

" It's about maintaining the pixel ratio"

 

We already have the iPhone 5. Pixel ration convenience has already been sabotaged.

The only problem I see is this artificial segmenting of phone and tablet apps.

Why not just let them auto adjust?

post #61 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

All you guys are giving this DigiTimes rumor a lot more credibility than it deserves.

Digitimes is certainly bunk, I wish this site would stop reporting on their stories.

That said, I think there's a reasonable chance that the next mini will be Retina, especially given the increasing ppi of the competition. This is just one of those cases where Digitimes is stating the obvious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I agree with you but that will leave a hole for products in the first part of the year. I think we'll be getting a new Mac Pro and new AirPort devices within a few months, but I feel as though that's not enough. It seems ripe for a new product category to be introduced.

Possibly. I think it's pretty clear Apple has been consolidating their product updates. Apple's product sales do peak in the fall, so it makes some sense to match that cycle. Unfortunately, Apple's Macs are dependent on Intel's update cycle.
Edited by JeffDM - 12/15/12 at 8:14pm
post #62 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by aBeliefSystem View Post

" It's about maintaining the pixel ratio"

We already have the iPhone 5. Pixel ration convenience has already been sabotaged.
The only problem I see is this artificial segmenting of phone and tablet apps.
Why not just let them auto adjust?

Huh? The PPI is still the same on the iPhone 5 as it was on the 4S and 4, which are all double the PPI of the 3 generations before that. They have scaled it intelligently and smoothly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Digitimes is certainly bunk, I wish this site would stop reporting on their stories.
That said, I think there's a reasonable chance that the next mini will be Retina, especially given the increasing ppi of the competition. This is just one of those cases where Digitimes is stating the obvious..

To me it seems unlikely because the weight and battery life are primary factors here. Note we're talking about the same resolution which means the same umber of pixels to be pushed to the display as in the iPad 4. Even ignoring the additional price for a 2048x1516 326 PPI display over a 262 PPI display how can you maintain the same battery life and weight in that device. They didn't do it with the iPad 3 or 4. In fact it clearly got heavier and thicker than the iPad 2.

As previously mentioned I think Rogue 6 will help considerably but I don't think it's the sole factor and if they plan to keep the iPad mini a year behind with the ASIC then it won't get Rogue 6 until 2014.
Quote:
Possibly. I think it's pretty clear Apple has been consolidating their product updates. Apple's product sales do peak in the fall, so it makes some sense to match that cycle. Unfortunately, Apple's Macs are dependent on Intel's update cycle.

I see that as reason to not launch all iDevices in late Autumn because you have too many products together and an already difficult time ramping up supply to meet initial demand that having them out for an additional quarter or two could help overall yearly sales. Because of that I think a new product or product category is favored by the odds.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #63 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

To me it seems unlikely because the weight and battery life are primary factors here. Note we're talking about the same resolution which means the same umber of pixels to be pushed to the display as in the iPad 4. Even ignoring the additional price for a 2048x1516 326 PPI display over a 262 PPI display how can you maintain the same battery life and weight in that device. They didn't do it with the iPad 3 or 4. In fact it clearly got heavier and thicker than the iPad 2.
As previously mentioned I think Rogue 6 will help considerably but I don't think it's the sole factor and if they plan to keep the iPad mini a year behind with the ASIC then it won't get Rogue 6 until 2014.
I see that as reason to not launch all iDevices in late Autumn because you have too many products together and an already difficult time ramping up supply to meet initial demand that having them out for an additional quarter or two could help overall yearly sales. Because of that I think a new product or product category is favored by the odds.

If they go with IGZO, and A5X goes down a smaller process fab, I don't see a problem in hitting weight and battery life targets. Cost can still be an issue.
post #64 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

If they go with IGZO, and A5X goes down a smaller process fab, I don't see a problem in hitting weight and battery life targets. Cost can still be an issue.

I haven't seen any evidence those will be viable choice for 2013. We just got a smaller lithography this year. They did quite push with the iPad 2 after the iPad 3 was launched and officially announced it for the new iPhone, iPad 4 and iPad mini. I have a hard time thinking they will go down to 20nm so soon.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #65 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

I'm not as sure about that anymore. WalMart announced a price cut for the full-size next-gen iPad4 down to $399. I doubt Walmart is taking a loss on them and that price is not far off the Mini.

" Update 2: Walmart has contacted MacRumors to note that it erred in stating that the iPad promotion was for the current generation. It is in fact the third-generation iPad that is on closeout sale for $399."

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #66 of 71
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

" Update 2: Walmart has contacted MacRumors to note that it erred in stating that the iPad promotion was for the current generation. It is in fact the third-generation iPad that is on closeout sale for $399."

 

In other news, Wal-mart will not be honoring any of their… 

 

Okay, I'm making that up, and I probably shouldn't since my experience with companies that refuse to honor their own mistakes does not extend to Wal-mart… But still.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #67 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

" Update 2: Walmart has contacted MacRumors to note that it erred in stating that the iPad promotion was for the current generation. It is in fact the third-generation iPad that is on closeout sale for $399."

If it sounds too good to be true, it's worth double checking.

What's really frustrating is I've not found a copy of these press releases posted online anywhere. MacRumors said in a related story the original press release said the third gen iPads, then some PR lackey went around saying it was really fourth gen.
post #68 of 71
Wow. Looks like either my posts are going missing or someone's deleting them because they don't like my comments. Ah well...
post #69 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisNH View Post

I think Apple's compressed product cycles are hurting the company. You could count on an annual refresh, which took away some of the 'buyers' remorse' people feel now. I'd love the iPad Mini, but I turned my nose up at it because the Retina version will be coming so soon after the initial launch. Same with the iPhone 5S. Why bother with the iPhone 5 with NFC and 'colors' coming with the 5S. No wonder Wal-Mart is blowing out the 4S and 5 at $47 and $127 respectively. ...

 

- There is absolutely no indication at all that Apple will support NFC with the next or any iPhone.  Odds are actually against it at this point.  

- Same for "colours" of iPhones (since there haven't been any yet and no announcement or even rumours of same).  

 

Also, who cares what WalMart does?  It's a crazy store for trailer-trash, drug addicts and poor folks in America.  

Most of the world never has to shop there thankfully.  

post #70 of 71
The next iPad mini may have a higher-resolution display, but the current iPad mini already has a high-resolution display. The fact is that most users would have a hard time seeing the difference between an iPad 2 screen and an iPad Retina screen. For professional users, the Retina display may be very useful; but for most people, it's just another "must have" feature (like higher-resolution pocket cameras) that is 10% genuinely useful and 90% advertising gimmick.
post #71 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by sranger View Post
I just bought a iPad Mini.  This would be horrible for me.  

 

Don't worry about it. When I got  Retina iPad we compared with wife's #2 and both see no difference. Seriously, if you need watching glass to see difference it could be neglected. I also got iPad mini for my daughter for xmas and neither of us will regret it when mini with retina will surface.

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