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Launch of Google Maps for iPhone viewed as a 'mixed blessing' for Apple - Page 4

post #121 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

 

...and who pays the bills, which of those sites rely on Google advertising revenue?

 

Conflict of interest, much.

Ah, gocha. MG Siegler and David Pogue are on Google's payroll now. Is that your claim?

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post #122 of 255

I experienced Apple's maps issue in Dallas.  I've downloaded Google maps for a backup but once Apple's stabilizes I'll use that exclusively.  It was only when Apple came out with their own turn-by-turn did Google deliver the same they had on Andriod for iPhones.  I see Amazon slighting iPhones with their augmented reality application too.   

post #123 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

 

Which one?

 

All those cheap PAYG phone's dragging Android down to the lowest level as is clearly obvious from usage stats.

The worldwide usage stats are here. With "supposedly" somewhat equivalent user base numbers iOS and Android, evidence that the two look pretty well in line with each other going by the charts here.

http://gs.statcounter.com/#mobile_os-ww-monthly-200911-201211

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post #124 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Well thats about it for now, sorry have to get back to work which appears to be a problem you don't have, which might explain your lack of insight.

Mind the door on your way out. There's a pretty strong wind at your back.
post #125 of 255

Wow..choice.  Use what ya want and quite moaning.

 

So, I install Google Maps, fire it up, step outside my building, switch to satellite view, and.......white clouds.  Some would call that a "fail" !!
 

post #126 of 255
Could they have made the user interface on Google Maps any less intuitive? When I was finally able to set up turn-by-turn directions, it was by sheer luck.
post #127 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

 

Oh, and buy the stock. hold it up the ass for a few months. 

 

there, fixed that for you.

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post #128 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by NexusPhan View Post

 

What makes you say that? Because of app revenues? Many of the paid apps on iOS are ad supported on android and it is not published (at least I couldn't find it) how much the developers make from those ads. So it's not really fair to compare that.

 

Apple maps failed to find the restaurant I ate lunch at today. Friend with an iPhone had to download the Google maps to meet us there. Sure enough, it was there. I thought it was great timing.

 

Nope.

 

Apple leaves holes for developers to fill, unlike other manufacturers (pre-iPhone) who thought they had to provide everything.

 

Google just filled in a hole, now Apple has no responsibility or obligation to Google as regards their App.

 

btw, this is interesting:-

 

When you do this:-

 

 

1000

 

You always start here, which was puzzling at first until I switched to satellite:-

 

 

1000

 

Stonehenge, well played Google, although the observatory at Greenwich would have been better.


Edited by hill60 - 12/14/12 at 3:05pm
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post #129 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

What makes you believe Google could have offered one with Apple branding?
Well that's what I keep hearing the haters of Apple's maps want. Get Google maps back on iPhone as native app now. My point was Apple would never go for that. And Google certainly wouldn't have allowed a fully functioning maps (voice directed TBT, street view, transit info etc.) app that didn't have their branding. Neither side is wrong. It's just unfortunate that what Apple released wasn't up to their high standards.
post #130 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

I downloaded this and tested it several times yesterday.…

In truth, both Apps lack some of the cool features of Navigon. For instance, Navigon will tell me when I am speeding and I don't need an Internet connection for the app to work.

Like Apple's criticism has been inflated, I think Google's credit is over inflated. Google's app is good, but isn't the holy grail some would lead you to believe.

I drove from Toronto to Buffalo today using Google and TomTom, and returned using Apple Maps and TomTom. Note that I had TomTom on an non-data plan iPad.

 

Had to turn off data entering the US and within a couple of mile, I lost the Google Map without data, as well as the Apple Map until I reentered Canada and turned data back on.

 

The TomTom's turn by turn on the other hand continued working perfectly without the data. More importantly, neither Google's or Apple's came anywhere near the simplicity of my TomTom. It too warns me when I am exceeding the speed limit. And with the go-to-picture feature, it is extremely easy to find a student or colleague just by having him/her email a picture of where they are on campus.

post #131 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBum View Post

Could they have made the user interface on Google Maps any less intuitive? When I was finally able to set up turn-by-turn directions, it was by sheer luck.
and yet I keep hearing how Google is better at software design than Apple these days. lol.gif
post #132 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBum View Post

Could they have made the user interface on Google Maps any less intuitive? When I was finally able to set up turn-by-turn directions, it was by sheer luck.

It's not the same as iOS — feels more like WinPh than Android — but I don't think it's not unintuitive*. In fact, I think it's thought out very well and is very straightforward for how many features it has built in.



* un + in? Why can't we just use the word tuitive? 1tongue.gif

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post #133 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Ah, gocha. MG Siegler and David Pogue are on Google's payroll now. Is that your claim?

 

Are they the editors of the sites you mentioned (i.e. The editors at Ars, TheVerge, Techcrunch and Engadget all write that Google Maps for iOS outshines Apple's efforts so far.)?

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post #134 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

 

Are they the editors of the sites you mentioned (i.e. The editors at Ars, TheVerge, Techcrunch and Engadget all write that Google Maps for iOS outshines Apple's efforts so far.)?

Yes sir. One is an editor at TechCrunch I believe: Mr Siegler. They're also the two Apple-friendly bloggers (some have claimed "Apple shills") you deleted from my original response, as you already know. As for the others, are you also claiming that any site that offers Google ads, such as AppleInsider or RoughlyDrafted, must be assumed to be Google mouthpieces? If not, exactly what is your point.

 

Can't wait for this answer

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post #135 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

The worldwide usage stats are here. With "supposedly" somewhat equivalent user base numbers iOS and Android, evidence that the two look pretty well in line with each other going by the charts here.
http://gs.statcounter.com/#mobile_os-ww-monthly-200911-201211

I don' see how Android can have so many "activations" and yet still not be killing Apple in the worldwide stats. Even when you consider that most Android-based devices are used as feature phones and likely only using data in most countries when connected to WiFi it still seems like Android is doing poorly when they are only 8% higher than the next competitor, which is just one company's products, that doesn't sell nearly as many products as Google claims in activations. Something simply doesn't fit.

I find the US one even more interesting. It looks like both have plateaued over the past year. I'd wager that the nations Android is fairing worse against iOS are the nations that vendors selling Android-based phones are actually making their profit.

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post #136 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

 

Nope.

 

Apple leaves holes for developers to fill, unlike other manufacturers (pre-iPhone) who thought they had to provide everything.

 

Google just filled in a hole, now Apple has no responsibility or obligation to Google as regards their App.

 

btw, this is interesting:-

 

When you do this:-

 

 

1000

 

You always start here, which was puzzling at first until I switched to satellite:-

 

 

1000

 

Stonehenge, well played Google, although the observatory at Greenwich would have been better.

What happens if you turn off all location and tracking services for Apple Maps?

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post #137 of 255

There's no way that NOT being available on iOS is a net positive for Google.

Obviously Google was going to put this out for free if Apple let them go.

 

Why pay for something if they'll just give it to you?

Google got hosed.

post #138 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Even the typically Apple-friendly bloggers have the same opinion. For example MG Siegler said:

 

"It’s great. I’ve been using it all morning to get around. It’s worth it for the clearly superior place search functionality alone.

Judging from my inbox/replies/etc, it seems like a lot of folks expect me to take a shit on the app. I’m not going to do that. As I’ve always said, my only requirement to use something is that it be the best. And that’s clearly the case here.

Google Maps is superior to Apple Maps in most (though not quite all) ways. And I’m excited to have it back on the iPhone. I’ll be using it constantly."

 

David Pogue in his review says "Google Maps for iPhone is a home run" while also saying that with Apple Maps "You wind up with a deep mistrust of the app that’s hard to shake."

 

It doesn't mean that their opinions are necessarily more valid than yours or anyone else's. But your claim that "pretty much every tech blogger that uses an iPhone" wouldn't want to replace Apple Maps app with Google's doesn't seem to have much support going by what I've read.

 

Here ya go Hill60 in case you overlooked part of my post you quoted, but really intended to comment on it.

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post #139 of 255
Apple Maps's satellite images of Stonehenge are better than Googles. I guess that's a plus for Apple.



PS: I'm amazed at how close that highway is to Stonehenge. I'd think they'd want to make so a lorry that is run off the road can't hit it.
Edited by SolipsismX - 12/14/12 at 3:41pm

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post #140 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

What happens if you turn off all location and tracking services for Apple Maps?

It starts at Cupertino, Infinite Loop. I believe.

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post #141 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

It starts at Cupertino, Infinite Loop. I believe.

Have you actually done it to see what happens, maybe a screen shot? Just curious.


Edited by Gatorguy - 12/14/12 at 3:42pm
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post #142 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by NexusPhan View Post

 

Google is as transparent as you can get. They clearly outline everything they are doing in their privacy agreements and you can opt out of everything, which I have done.

Except for little things like not honoring my Safari settings to block cookies (they didn't tell me they were doing that) I was geting Google cookies though I NEVER went to a Google website or used Google search. Or driving around recording people's wi-fi broadcasts. Or publishing authors' works without permission. Or etc. etc. and who knows what else that they haven't told us about yet. There will plenty more fines for Google's violations of privacy laws before too long.

post #143 of 255
Originally Posted by elroth View Post
Or driving around recording people's wi-fi broadcasts.

 

Akamai does that for location services, not Google, I thought. But is that really an invasion of privacy? All they do is find out what network is where, not anything about it or on it, right?

post #144 of 255
Now they just just need to fix the crappy wifi on ios6.
post #145 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Have you actually done it to see what happens, maybe a screen shot? Just curious.

Hill60, If you're having some difficulty in figuring out how to turn off location and tracking in iOS6 I don't think you're alone. Most users probably have no idea that Apple sets location and tracking 'On" by default (So much for user privacy). IMO Apple is intentionally making it hard to opt out by putting the switches in odd places, areas where most users would never think to look, assuming they had any idea they needed to. 

 

Remember how Apple took away UDID from app developers bag of tricks? Well they gave something else back to them so that your personal interests can still be used to send ads meant just for you. Of course it's said to be "anonymous tracking". You won't see Apple mention it much, but its called IDFA. If you want to read up on it at all here's a link. IMHO it's not a bad balance between user privacy and Apple needing to deliver results for advertisers and developers.

http://apsalar.com/blog/2012/06/apples-new-advertising-id/

 
So anyway, if you want to keep every advertiser and app developer (not just Google) as far away as possible and limit their data gathering as best you can within iOS, here's where to start.
 
Go into "Settings" and then "General". Once in that menu click "About", then on "Advertising". You'll see "Limit Ad Tracking". Set it to "ON". Yeah I know that may not seem right to some users, but it's how you really do turn off 3rd party tracking for targeted ads. Usually when you want to turn something off you click "off". Not in this case and many Apple users will set this one wrong and wonder why personalized ads keep getting delivered. So to repeat, set this to "ON". It won't keep you from getting 3rd party ads altogether, but at least they shouldn't be based on your search activity.
 
But that won't deal with iAds even tho you would think it does (it should), and those are based on tracking Apple user activity too. So another step is needed to tell Apple you don't want to be tracked for their advertisers targeted ad delivery either. 
 
Open Safari on your iDevice and go to the obscure webpage http://oo.apple.com. There's a screen there asking if you want to opt out of Interest Based iAds. Set the switch to "Off" and you shouldn't see any more ads based on your personal travels and searches. You still might get some generalized ads via Apple tho. Nothing much you can do about that.
 
So that does it, right? Well, not yet. One more thing you'll want to do: Turn on "Private Browsing". 
 
To get there go back into your iDevice settings and look for Safari. Open up that menu and change Private Browsing to "ON". Apple likely had it set to 'OFF". That should send out a "Do Not Track" message to any website you visit. It doesn't mean it will always be honored (IIRC Facebook said they ignore those), but it should keep some of the cookies gathering data for targeted ads based on your personal history at bay.
 
One thing to note: Do Not Track is far from an accepted practice, or legally required to be honored. It's not the big guys like Google fighting against it either. You need to watch out for the smaller players.

Edited by Gatorguy - 12/14/12 at 5:30pm
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post #146 of 255
In terms of Apple's entry into the mapping business, this is obviously an admission of partial defeat. However, prior to iOS 6, there weren't any decent free turn-by-turn apps for the platform, which was a major advantage held by Android. Entering the mapping business and kicking Google off the platform as the default mapping solution, has forced Google to make an iOS version of their Maps app that is on-par with their Android version. Even if this is the only result of Apple's mapping effort, it's a win for the iOS platform.
So, Google has won the battle, but lost the war in a sense. They will have access to the data produced by iOS users, but they have lost a key advantage for the Android platform.
Apple doesn't really care if they have the best mapping solution, as long as mapping and turn-by-turn is not a barrier to people purchasing iOS devices.
post #147 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by NexusPhan View Post

At 71% global market share, android does not need the minor competitive edge that the real google maps app gives. They've already won. They're an ad company that makes money on volume. To that end, it's not even a contest.

It matters if you want to advertise to rich people.

Also can we get past pretending that one quarters market share = installed base. And a traditionally weak quarter for iPhones too.
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post #148 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by graxspoo View Post

In terms of Apple's entry into the mapping business, this is obviously an admission of partial defeat. However, prior to iOS 6, there weren't any decent free turn-by-turn apps for the platform, which was a major advantage held by Android. Entering the mapping business and kicking Google off the platform as the default mapping solution, has forced Google to make an iOS version of their Maps app that is on-par with their Android version. Even if this is the only result of Apple's mapping effort, it's a win for the iOS platform.
So, Google has won the battle, but lost the war in a sense. They will have access to the data produced by iOS users, but they have lost a key advantage for the Android platform.
Apple doesn't really care if they have the best mapping solution, as long as mapping and turn-by-turn is not a barrier to people purchasing iOS devices.

I hope to see more Apple Maps innovations in the near future. It's amazing that they can deliver so quickly. Next lap is to deliver a better maps search and data. :-)
post #149 of 255

I'm surprised that Google Earth is a top app, but not that YouTube and Maps are.

 

Sometimes all these corporate/strategic control type things get in the way of making a good product, and that's when it has gone too far. Sure, Google has some power through controlling some vital servers, but Apple has a lot of power too, in that they control device that's in everybody's hands. It's kind of a cold-war mutually assured destruction thing and as long as neither side presses the button, the customer wins.

post #150 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post


I should have been more clear. That is the footpath and people in my photo, but in Hill60's photo you can zoom in on and see the highway and car park. On further inspection I was also a bit overzealous with my comment about a runaway truck. Still, it does seem very close to the structure. Except for the La Brea Tar Pits in LA I can't think of any US landmark that is so close to a heavily trafficked road.

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post #151 of 255
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Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

And the original app was created by Apple, not Google.  The only thing Google did was provide the background data.  If you want to blame someone for the dumbed down app, blame Apple.

How come when people want to praise the old Apple maps app, it's called 'Google Maps' and when they want to criticize the same app, it's suddenly attributed to Apple again???

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post #152 of 255
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post
How come when people want to praise the old Apple maps app, it's called 'Google Maps' and when they want to criticize the same app, it's suddenly attributed to Apple again???

 

700700

post #153 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

How come when people want to praise the old Apple maps app, it's called 'Google Maps' and when they want to criticize the same app, it's suddenly attributed to Apple again???

I know I've struggled with my wording in order to be clear which one I was referring. If it's just a comment about iOS 6 Maps and Google's new App Store offering I have been using Apple Maps and Google Maps, but if I need to reference pre-iOS 6 Maps it gets a little tricker because it's Apple's Maps app but Google's backend. Perhaps we need a simple way to refer to it that can be universally known with requiring a having to write pre-iOS 6 each time.

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post #154 of 255

Most people do not understand the concept that doing the right thing can never be wrong, in the long term. So it goes with Apple, it's obviously the right thing to do to have google maps available, why not? Now Apple has some breathing space and is in a position to do real damage to Google in the long term by simply making their own mapping product unbelievable excellent, which is bound to happen eventually.

post #155 of 255
Originally Posted by NexusPhan View Post
That's why CNet's top smartphone this year is a Samsung....

 

http://reviews.cnet.com/holiday-gift-guide/top-gifts/

 

And Samsung Galaxy series has outsold the iPhone 5. Don't put too much weight with what the customer satisfaction surveys say. If they weren't satisfied, they wouldn't continue to sell so many tens of millions.

 

Lesson 1: http://cl.ly/image/172d3M3a0u3M

post #156 of 255
As much as I hate google, I had to go to google maps...

I couldn't take apple maps anymore... Idk if it was Siri or maps, but when I said "I need directions for the Claremont hotel in Berkeley", the fukn maps app added a pin IN FUCKN LOS ANGELES!!!!

WTF????

And this was just Wednesday... Happens wwaaayyyy too often!!!!!
post #157 of 255
Three of the top five FREE iOS apps are from Google. Yay!

Apple sells phones and accessories and insurance plans, yet Google gives away their apps. Which business model is sustainable?
post #158 of 255

There is a lot more to this story than meets the eye at first glance. When the full picture comes out, people will realize that this has nothing to do with Maps. This entire story is about Search.

 

When the iPhone first launched, Google was paying Apple $100M to be the default search provider on the iPhone. About 2 years back, when relationship between Apple and Google soured, Apple upped the amount to $1B - and Google had no choice but to pony up. This was a whole lot of money, but not being the default search engine on iOS would have hurt Google even more, by allowing Bing access to the high profile customer base of Apple.

 

Before the launch of iOS 6, Apple is said to have upped this amount to $2.5B - and really turned the screws on Google. This is really painful for Google, but they still don't have a choice, because at this point in time, iOS is still way too important, both in terms of sheer numbers, as well as the profile of customers. But $2.5B is more than what Google makes out of iOS, which means, Apple was really hurting Google bad.

 

Google attempted to negotiate access fees for Google Maps and Youtube - but Apple called them out, and decided to evict YouTube and Maps from iOS. The story with YouTube is very interesting - being part of iOS, the YouTube app was not allowed to offer any ads. And being a free service, Google could not stop Apple from riding on top of YouTube, without indulging in anti-competitive practices. During the iOS 6 stand-off, Google decided to make up for the removal of YouTube by launching its own app, with ads. This was a no-brainer, because Google would actually make a lot of money doing this.

 

But when it came to Maps, the scenario was totally different. Google is not releasing Maps for iOS in an attempt to collect information about users on iOS. While that is useful, the benefit to Google from having a much better Maps implementation on Android (thereby adding a lot of value to Android) was a lot more. However, Google realized that the army of iOS users were helping Apple rapidly eliminate inaccuracies in iOS6 Maps. It was just a question of time before iOS6 maps became usable - literally months away. Absolutely the only way for Google to stop that from happening, was to release their own Maps app on iOS, in an attempt to slow down the momentum of corrections in iOS6 maps. If most customers had a very good alternative, there would be zero incentive for them to use iOS6 maps, and report inaccuracies. It is this motive that prompted Google to release iOS6 maps.

 

Paradoxically, Google Maps on iOS6 makes the iPhone the best mapping platform - and the only platform where you can access multiple mapping solutions from Apple, Google, Nokia, for free. This will increase adoption of iPhone 5 and iOS6, as even the doubters now have no reason to hold back.

 

And the worst part from Google's perspective, is that Apple can still up their demands for keeping Google as the default search engine on iOS. Google literally has no option but to pay up. The only way for Google to avoid this threat is to dramatically increase market share of Android, to make iOS devices.

 

And removing Google as default search engine will have even lesser repercussions than what happened with Maps. Whoever is really pissed and misses out on Google can still continue to use Google as their search engine, while the vast majority of users would not even realize that things have changed!

 

The best part is, Apple won't even be missing out on the money - MS would happily pay Apple any amount for selecting Bing as the default search engine - and this money makes sense for Bing, because it is attempting to catch up on Google. For Google, paying ridiculous sums makes absolutely no sense, since they are already the market leader!

 

All said and done, Google has come out worst out of the entire exercise - Apple takes back all the money Google makes from iOS, and iOS users still get to use all the stuff from Google - and get even more features than they had before!

 

The important thing to remember is that Apple makes its money off of hardware sales. Whether the customer uses iOS6 maps, or Google Maps, makes absolutely no difference to Apple in the short term. And in the long term, Apple can work on ironing out the glitches in its maps, and offer not just a technically superior alternative, but also a more accurate alternative.


Edited by macarena - 12/15/12 at 12:50am
post #159 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

Another analyst we've never heard of makes the headlines at AI because they said something controversial about Apple.

Trolls are spinning things negatively. How about Apple fans trying to get the word out too? The original Google maps app was a crippled, dumbed down version of the Android app, better data or not. And nothing was going to change until Apple kicked Google to the curb. Yes, Apple screwed up but the result isn't as dire as some would hope. Google desperately needs its apps and services on iOS. Some reports have indicated that Google makes more money from iOS than it does on its own Android. And the result is a new, much better Google maps app. There is a very symbiotic relationship between these two and I wish they would just kiss and make up.

Personally I will keep using the Apple maps app because of this nonsense from Google. Fortunately Apple has the money and market power to take action like they did, unlike the 90's when they had to kowtow to Microsoft to keep Office on the Mac.

Speaking of trolls, why are you attacking the analyst's reputation rather than his claim?

Did you know that Google Maps on iOS was developed by Apple rather than Google?

Did you know that the only reason why Google Maps on iOS was worse than on Android was because Apple was unwilling to accept things that Google has implemented in the current app, such as binding to other Google services and ads?
post #160 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post

To me it casts Google in a bad light; Why couldn't they offer these features to Apple before? Honestly, if THEY can make an app with turn-by-turn and vector graphics why couldn't Apple use the same data to make their own app? Seems to me Google was trying to handicap iOS.

Or perhaps the current Google Maps app implements features under conditions that Apple wasn't willing to accept...
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