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Massacre in Connecticut - Page 26

post #1001 of 1058

NRA robocalls Newtown.

 

Inhuman.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #1002 of 1058

Letter from the NRA-

 

"2,243 martyrs for gun rights have died, whether murdered or accidentally shot, in the past 98 days since the Newtown massacre. We honour their bravery and resolve. This gun rights Jihad is paying dividends. A lot more guns have been sold since the Newtown massacre and the Fatwa against the President has also helped push gun sales further. Due, to the effectiveness of this campaign, we are no longer recommending children wear bullet proof jackets and helmets to school.

 

The NRA,

 

Bringing the war to your family."


Edited by Hands Sandon - 3/23/13 at 4:03am
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
post #1003 of 1058

To bad someone does not make Wayne L. disappear for good.
 

post #1004 of 1058

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #1005 of 1058

I fucking hate the NRA. May it go to hell.
 

post #1006 of 1058

2/3 of all gun-related deaths in the U.S. are suicides (according to Wikipedia).

 

Will banning guns address the underlying issues, there?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #1007 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

2/3 of all gun-related deaths in the U.S. are suicides (according to Wikipedia).

 

Will banning guns address the underlying issues, there?

 

That's a good statistic to bear in mind, but you omitted to mention the associated one (in the same paragraph) that the other 1/3 of gun deaths represents 2/3 of total homicides. Even if it had no effect on suicide numbers, if banning guns substantially reduced the number of homicides, would that not be worthwhile?

 

Not that anyone is actually suggesting banning guns anyway - just controlling them better.

post #1008 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

That's a good statistic to bear in mind, but you omitted to mention the associated one (in the same paragraph) that the other 1/3 of gun deaths represents 2/3 of total homicides. Even if it had no effect on suicide numbers, if banning guns substantially reduced the number of homicides, would that not be worthwhile?

 

Not that anyone is actually suggesting banning guns anyway - just controlling them better.

 

I didn't omit anything. I was asking about gun-related suicides. If you want to talk about that in relation to gun-related homicides that's fine, but I didn't omit anything.

 

A quick search on your favorite search engine will show that, according to FBI statistics, more people are killed by blunt objects (hammers, clubs, fists, etc.) than rifles. If banning (or "controlling") blunt objects would substantially reduce the number of homicides committed with such objects, would that be worthwhile?

 

That sounds a little absurd, right? Why?

 

Heck, I can do better than banning (or "controlling") guns or blunt objects. I know of a surefire way - the only way - to ensure that everyone gets food, clothing, shelter, jobs, healthcare, recreation, entertainment, exercise, 24/7 security and protection, and no guns: put everyone in prison.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #1009 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

That's a good statistic to bear in mind, but you omitted to mention the associated one (in the same paragraph) that the other 1/3 of gun deaths represents 2/3 of total homicides. Even if it had no effect on suicide numbers, if banning guns substantially reduced the number of homicides, would that not be worthwhile?

 

Not that anyone is actually suggesting banning guns anyway - just controlling them better.

 

I didn't omit anything. I was asking about gun-related suicides. If you want to talk about that in relation to gun-related homicides that's fine, but I didn't omit anything.

 

A quick search on your favorite search engine will show that, according to FBI statistics, more people are killed by blunt objects (hammers, clubs, fists, etc.) than rifles. If banning (or "controlling") blunt objects would substantially reduce the number of homicides committed with such objects, would that be worthwhile?

 

That sounds a little absurd, right? Why?

 

Heck, I can do better than banning (or "controlling") guns or blunt objects. I know of a surefire way - the only way - to ensure that everyone gets food, clothing, shelter, jobs, healthcare, recreation, entertainment, exercise, 24/7 security and protection, and no guns: put everyone in prison.

 

I'm not sure if you are looking for a serious discussion or not. OK - back to your question - would banning guns reduce suicides? Studies have not conclusively shown that they would. But since the major incentive behind gun control proposals is to reduce homicides, what relevance does that have?

 

And the statistic on blunt objects vs. rifles is intended to prove what - that a subset of other causes of death exceeds a subset of gun related homicides? Why is that relevant? We appear to be at a variant of the old argument that cars cause more deaths than guns so there is no need to try to reduce gun deaths.

 

And your prison proposal, as a logical conclusion argument, is still flawed because there is no one left to pay for it.

post #1010 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

 

I'm not sure if you are looking for a serious discussion or not. OK - back to your question - would banning guns reduce suicides? Studies have not conclusively shown that they would. But since the major incentive behind gun control proposals is to reduce homicides, what relevance does that have?

 

Perhaps it is not the main reason people want to ban (or "control") guns. In terms of the number of preventable deaths, gun-related homicides are not anywhere near the biggest contributor to that statistic. So...why, out of all the things we could be focusing our time and energies on, are guns being singled out?

 

Quote:

And the statistic on blunt objects vs. rifles is intended to prove what - that a subset of other causes of death exceeds a subset of gun related homicides? Why is that relevant? We appear to be at a variant of the old argument that cars cause more deaths than guns so there is no need to try to reduce gun deaths.

 

You just said it's about reducing homicides. So...why not focus on the larger contributor to homicides?

 

Quote:
And your prison proposal, as a logical conclusion argument, is still flawed because there is no one left to pay for it.

 

Ahh, but you probably assume that a prison is a physical building surrounded by concrete walls and barbed wire.

 

You don't have to be inside such a structure to be a prisoner.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #1011 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

 

I'm not sure if you are looking for a serious discussion or not. OK - back to your question - would banning guns reduce suicides? Studies have not conclusively shown that they would. But since the major incentive behind gun control proposals is to reduce homicides, what relevance does that have?

 

Perhaps it is not the main reason people want to ban (or "control") guns. In terms of the number of preventable deaths, gun-related homicides are not anywhere near the biggest contributor to that statistic. So...why, out of all the things we could be focusing our time and energies on, are guns being singled out?

 

Quote:

And the statistic on blunt objects vs. rifles is intended to prove what - that a subset of other causes of death exceeds a subset of gun related homicides? Why is that relevant? We appear to be at a variant of the old argument that cars cause more deaths than guns so there is no need to try to reduce gun deaths.

 

You just said it's about reducing homicides. So...why not focus on the larger contributor to homicides?

 

Guns are the largest contributor to homicides. 66%.

post #1012 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

 

Guns are the largest contributor to homicides. 66%.

 

Is the focus on rifles or all guns?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #1013 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

 

Guns are the largest contributor to homicides. 66%.

 

Is the focus on rifles or all guns?

 

Legislatively, mostly on rifles - that's part of the problem IMO. The proposals have been heavily influenced by the power of the gun lobby. In my view the focus should be on all guns, and should not be on banning them so much as controlling availability, licensing, regulating storage, and setting accountability. The current fixation on semi-auto rifles makes no sense to me from a pragmatic perspective. Even the clip size debate is in the noise when it comes to potential value.

post #1014 of 1058

"A documentary filmmaker known for helping rescue children from squalid Romanian orphanages in the early 1990s was fatally shot following an apparent dispute over the trimming of shrubbery outside his Southern California home, officials said Friday.

John Charles Upton Jr., 56, was found dead Thursday on a dirt path in the yard of his Encinitas home. The San Diego County Sheriff's Department said detectives arrested Michael Vilkin, 61, on suspicion of murder. He was being held without bail, pending arraignment Tuesday.

Upton, after learning of the plight of Romanian orphans, publicized the brutal conditions and was instrumental in bringing an estimated two dozen orphans to America for medical care and adoption.

Vilkin, in an interview conducted in county jail, told KGTV in San Diego he fired gunshots in self-defense after Upton menaced him with a gun during a dispute over foliage.

Vilkin said he owns vacant property next to Upton's home, and the two men had a disagreement over trimming shrubs.

"I did not go to him," Vilkin told the station. "He came to me threatening and pulled a gun (on) me."

A statement from the department said a dispute between the two men led to the shooting, which was under investigation.

Upton's brother, Michael Upton, told U-T San Diego that his brother and Vilkin previously argued about trees.

Upton's work in Romania also gained the attention of influential activists, inspiring billionaire philanthropist Richard Branson and actress Jessica Lange to help rescue youngsters from Romania.

Upton went on to create an online network of films about charitable causes."

"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
post #1015 of 1058

As lead sponsor in House on gun legislation, Rep. Diana DeGette appears to not understand how they work

 

 

 

Quote:

Asked how a ban on magazines holding more than 15 rounds would be effective in reducing gun violence, DeGette said:

“I will tell you these are ammunition, they’re bullets, so the people who have those now they’re going to shoot them, so if you ban them in the future, the number of these high capacity magazines is going to decrease dramatically over time because the bullets will have been shot and there won’t be any more available.”

 

 

These are the people passing the laws?

post #1016 of 1058
Do you believe that the last paragraph in the article may have any truth to it?
Quote:
“The Congresswoman has been working on a high-capacity assault magazine ban for years, and has been deeply involved in the issue; she simply misspoke in referring to ‘magazines’ when she should have referred to ‘clips,’ which cannot be reused because they don’t have a feeding mechanism,” Johnson said. “Quite frankly, this is just another example of opponents of common-sense gun violence prevention trying to manipulate the facts to distract from the critical issue of keeping our children safe and keeping killing machines out of the hands of disturbed individuals. It’s more political gamesmanship that stands in the way of responsible solutions.”

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #1017 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Do you believe that the last paragraph in the article may have any truth to it?
Quote:
“The Congresswoman has been working on a high-capacity assault magazine ban for years, and has been deeply involved in the issue; she simply misspoke in referring to ‘magazines’ when she should have referred to ‘clips,’ which cannot be reused because they don’t have a feeding mechanism,” Johnson said. “Quite frankly, this is just another example of opponents of common-sense gun violence prevention trying to manipulate the facts to distract from the critical issue of keeping our children safe and keeping killing machines out of the hands of disturbed individuals. It’s more political gamesmanship that stands in the way of responsible solutions.”

 

Having watched the clip (NPI) her explanation was rather rambling and she did give the impression of being confused by bullets, ammunition, magazines and clips, but in the wider context of what she talked about and her involvement with the bill, I suspect that she did simply have a bad night. It was somewhat amusing though.

post #1018 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

 

you omitted to mention the associated one (in the same paragraph) that the other 1/3 of gun deaths represents 2/3 of total homicides. Even if it had no effect on suicide numbers, if banning guns substantially reduced the number of homicides, would that not be worthwhile?

 

I always find it amazing that liberals think people will just stop killing people if they don't have guns.

 

Because human history teaches us that prior to the invention of gunpowder, Earth was a generally peaceful place where everybody held hands and danced around their campfires.

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #1019 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

I always find it amazing that liberals think [thing that liberals don't actually think].

FTFY.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #1020 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

 

you omitted to mention the associated one (in the same paragraph) that the other 1/3 of gun deaths represents 2/3 of total homicides. Even if it had no effect on suicide numbers, if banning guns substantially reduced the number of homicides, would that not be worthwhile?

 

I always find it amazing that liberals think people will just stop killing people if they don't have guns.

 

Because human history teaches us that prior to the invention of gunpowder, Earth was a generally peaceful place where everybody held hands and danced around their campfires.

 

You find it amazing to think that restricting access to the most efficient, effective, rapid, non-contact killing devices that are readily available to the public, and that are currently used in 2/3 of homicides in the US, will not reduce homicide numbers? Even though that is exactly what statistics from other countries indicate. Notice that I said reduce - not eliminate - that is your straw man version, as is your partial quote of my post that omitted the observation that the proposals are to control, not to ban.

 

You are easily amazed. Why do you think guns might be the preferred and most used method currently? Maybe because they provide the biggest tactical advantage, least personal risk and most assured outcome of any weapon in such a situation? Take away those advantages and, on average, it becomes a tougher and riskier task to accomplish. Make a task tougher and riskier and it gets accomplished less often. QED.

 

Apologies - accidentally got trapped in some silly liberal logical thinking there and forgot the dogma for a moment. Carry on.

post #1021 of 1058
People don't stop killing people without guns, or grenades, or rockets, or nukes. They just do it far less efficiently. And that's the point.
post #1022 of 1058

LEAVE THE DAM PAST GO ALREADY! Enough is enough with this photos of hate the Blacks went through.What about the American Indians they suffered plenty to and are still adhering to plenty of bigotry to this day.The White man screwed them plenty.
 

post #1023 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

People don't stop killing people without guns, or grenades, or rockets, or nukes. They just do it far less efficiently. And that's the point.

Yes, let's leave guns, grenades, rockets, and nukes in the hands of governments...which are the only entities that have actually used them consistently to murder innocent people en masse. And they tend to use them more when the people they are attacking have no way to defend themselves.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #1024 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

 

I always find it amazing that liberals think people will just stop killing people if they don't have guns.

 

Because human history teaches us that prior to the invention of gunpowder, Earth was a generally peaceful place where everybody held hands and danced around their campfires.

Oh there were-

 

 

 

 

Your conclusion is a bit hard to tease out. Are you declaring that we shouldn't ban guns because ropes and votes have caused so much more violence or are you saying we should ban guns, ropes and voting since they have all caused violence?

 

Please clarify.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #1025 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Your conclusion is a bit hard to tease out. Are you declaring that we shouldn't ban guns because ropes and votes have caused so much more violence or are you saying we should ban guns, ropes and voting since they have all caused violence?

Please clarify.

I think he was just looking for an excuse to post graphic photos and continue his "crusade" against perceived racism.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #1026 of 1058

Might I also suggest that with so many racist to defend against those black men would have need for a high capacity magazine. One that the Democrats would deny them. 

post #1027 of 1058

Perhaps he is a racist with his pictures posting and malarkey about caring about the Blacks.
 

post #1028 of 1058

The NRA is completely inhumane with that robot Wayne L.
 

post #1029 of 1058

The only thing that stops a four year-old with a gun is a three year-old with a gun.

post #1030 of 1058

Thanks again the NRA. More martyrs for your cause-

"As the debate around gun control raged in Washington D.C., two 4-year-olds were involved in horrific shooting incidents over the past three days.

In Tennessee, a 4-year old boy shot and killed the wife of a state sheriff's deputy on Saturday, according to police.

In Toms River, New Jersey, on Monday night, a 4-year-old shot a 6-year old in the head with a .22 caliber rifle, authorities say."

"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
post #1031 of 1058

Hands, thanks for bringing these stories of irresponsible gun owners to everyone's attention. Hopefully this will prompt all, current and prospective, gun owners to take proper measures to secure their firearms to avoid such tragedies.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #1032 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Hands, thanks for bringing these stories of irresponsible gun owners to everyone's attention. Hopefully this will prompt all, current and prospective, gun owners to take proper measures to secure their firearms to avoid such tragedies.

No, it won't have that effect. Gun owners will continue thinking it'll never happen to them, because they're not one of those "losers" that lets an accident happen.

 

Here's some proof-

 

A list of the number of unintentional gun deaths per year in the US-

 

2011: 851
2010: 606
2009: 554
2008: 592
2007: 613
2006: 642
2005: 789
2004: 649
2003: 730
2002: 762
2001: 802
2000: 776
1999: 824

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states

 

 

The UK has a population five times less than the US. Here is a list of the total number of murders-

 

 

2000: 847 (committed with firearm), F- 72

2001: 854 F- 96

2002:1041 F-80

2003: 852 F- 68

2004: 834 F- 76

2005: 764 F-49

2006: 749 F-56

2007: 772 F-53

2008: 668 F-39

2009:626 F-39

2010: 648 F-58

2011: 550 F- 39

~ http://www.citizensreportuk.org/reports/murders-fatal-violence-uk.html

"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
post #1033 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

In Tennessee, a 4-year old boy shot and killed the wife of a state sheriff's deputy on Saturday, according to police.

 

So clearly the answer is to take away guns from the police, right?

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
Reply
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
Reply
post #1034 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

 

So clearly the answer is to take away guns from the police, right?

During the ten years prior to 2011 the US had 551 policeman murdered with all but 24 on duty at the time. That's more than 55 each year, and 16 more than were murdered out of the whole population by firearms in the UK that year. Nearly all of them were killed with a firearm. There no doubt would have been a lot more if they didn't have firearms. But, with over 11,000 people murdered with firearms in 2011 in the US, and 300 million guns, guns clearly don't stop people getting killed though. In England exactly 51 police officers have been shot since 1792, and 19 stabbed. In Wales, none have been shot or stabbed since 1792. Scotland has had 4 shot and 2 stabbed since 1792. Northern Ireland is the exception because of the troubles. 201 have been shot there since 1792. Excluding Northern Ireland, the same number of police are murdered in the US -accounting for the total population difference- in just six years, than have been murdered in the UK in 220 years. In just 16 months the US has the same number of police murdered as England, Scotland and wales combined have had since 1792.

 

Here's where I got the datahttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19634164 and here- http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/nation/guns/officers-killed-by-guns/

 

Maybe allow certain guns, but have strict laws on their purchase, registration, storage and training? Is that really too much to ask? 


Edited by Hands Sandon - 4/9/13 at 10:13am
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
post #1035 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Maybe allow certain guns, but have strict laws on their purchase, registration, storage and training? Is that really too much to ask? 

 

First, you'll have to repeal the 2nd Amendment. That "shall not be infringed" part doesn't leave much room for interpretation.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #1036 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

 

First, you'll have to repeal the 2nd Amendment. That "shall not be infringed" part doesn't leave much room for interpretation.

If that were true there'd be no laws on the books now.

"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
post #1037 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

If that were true there'd be no laws on the books now.

 

Oh, it's true, it's just been ignored.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #1038 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

 

Oh, it's true, it's just been ignored.

Well that's a good start then. 1wink.gif

"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
post #1039 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Well that's a good start then. 1wink.gif

 

Ignoring the documents upon which the country was founded has been done in some form or fashion by the government almost from day one.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #1040 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

 

Ignoring the documents upon which the country was founded has been done in some form or fashion by the government almost from day one.

That's probably very true. I generally think there was 50 years before they really sold out.

"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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