Originally Posted by SDW2001
If that's your conclusion, than you're more misinformed than I originally thought.
Really? Do you know which doors and windows are in good repair and which are flakey? Do you know where all the security cameras and systems are located? Which of you regularly sees all of the school including service areas? You or the school custodian?
In schools without dedicated security staff who makes sure the building is secure and sets the end of day alarms long after all the staff has gone home and the school closes for the night?
Is that you? Or the janitor?
I have limited knowledge and experience with guns. Working in a variety of schools has allowed me to have quite a bit of experience with security, from participating in drills of many kinds, to having to evacuate a building, to participating in revisions of procedures.
This is like claiming you have knowledge or experience in fire fighting because you've done school fire drills.
I didn't say that. I said you were not a stakeholder to me. I further took issue with your the qualification of your opinion.
Parents are often LEOs, Fire Fighters or other domain experts with knowledge far in advance of any teacher EVEN on their own turf whether that is the school grounds or a subject area.
I have not fired a gun or been fired upon. I also do not believe my opinion is "superior" to everyone else. I do think I am more qualified to opine on the matter than you are.
In what way are you more qualified to opine on the matter than any given parent? Do you believe that they have less at stake than you do in the safety of their children? Given you don't know the level of expertise of anyone on the internet neither can you claim that whomever you are discussing the topic with does not have expertise on a subject. Strangely as it may seem to you but many school districts, including my own, have parents, teachers, administrators, custodial staff and law enforcement on their school security JTF.
They are all stakeholders and the only ones MORE qualified to speak to school security than anyone else are the LEOs on the JTF (excluding the parents who might be SMEs in specific areas but that's luck of the draw).
Oh boy. Emotionally? No. I'm telling you...we are defenseless, especially against the kind of attack that happened recently. And I never said I wanted to carry a gun to school.
You are not defenseless unless your school district has particularly poor security. Given what you wrote you have good passive defenses. Depending on your school there will probably be police nearby able to respond quickly and that's something they train for so you have an active defense as well, just not on-site all the time. Which works large amounts of the time against most threats.
Schools that face more active threats have more on-site active security.
All security a tradeoff in terms of cost vs risk. Even parents do this. I maybe could afford a bodyguard for my kids. Not a very good one for $20 an hour to drive them to school and activities. But that would mean not being able to afford said activities, save for college or retirement, selling the house for an apartment, etc. Do you think it would be wise to spend 50%+ of my net take-home for the marginal increase in security of a bodyguard for my kids? I'm not rich. I'm not important. I don't live in Mexico. The answer is no because the risks, while severe if they were to happen, aren't very likely.
Risk = severity * probability. The risk at your school is very very low. You are not defenseless. You're just responding emotionally.
As for never wanting a gun in school:
Originally Posted by SDW2001
I'm a teacher and I've never considered having one. But I'll tell you this...if I'm ever in this situation, I want one. Had I been there with a gun, it would have stopped. I guaran-fucking-tee you that.
You didn't write this testosterone fueled gun fantasy piece? Thus far in this thread there is maybe one civ qualified to carry a gun in a school and that's a very very qualified maybe based purely on my personal experience with people with a CPLs...which is probably heavily skewed in the wrong direction since most holders I know are ex-LEOs because I live in a may issue state. And that's FloorJack.
And he's right...in many states CPL training is a joke and anyone armed in a school should be trained as well as a LEO. This costs money, time and commitment. More time, money and commitment than you seem to understand. He and I may or may not disagree on some things but we agree on this (including the requirement that they carry and are trained in a non-lethal option).
Arming volunteer school administrators and teachers is doable like arming pilots. It is even a decent idea. It's just not going to provide very good coverage and is going to cost money.
Note that the Gun Free School Zone Act does not prohibit armed teachers at the federal level. That means you only need to convince local legislators to allow it and pay for it.
Good. I respect that. That means you are well trained to respond to disasters. It doesn't mean anything when it comes to specific vulnerabilities we face. It doesn't mean anything when it comes to defending students and staff against an armed lunatic who shot his way in.
I am not well trained to respond to disasters. I am well (or was when I was doing it...it is a perishable knowledge set) trained to write software for folks that respond to events. That means I did need to know about specific vulnerabilities they face in their jobs or I couldn't have done mine.
Wow, I really touched a nerve with you, hmm? Let me be clear. I am saying my qualifications as a teacher make my opinion more qualified than yours. I am saying that working in schools for nearly 15 years does.
Except not so much. And even if that was true specifically in my case it's STILL not true for all parents or even all participants on this thread. What you write is still an appeal to authority and not a very good one at that. I might buy it if you were a LEO or even served on your districts security advisory board or something. But as your average teacher? LOL, no.