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post #721 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

And you called someone who is not a socialist a socialist, or who is a socialist... a corporatist... or vice versa... :lol:

 

No, I called someone who is a corporatist and socialist and fascist what they are.

 

Though, quite frankly, I repeated myself there.


corporatist = fascist = corporate socialist

 

Obama is these for sure.

 

Additionally he also has socialist tendencies in the way that you think of socialism ("for the people" lol.gif) also. But, admittedly, he's probably more of a corporate socialist/corporatist/fascist and merely puts on the "for the people" socialism to get votes from his adoring and ignorant worshipers.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #722 of 1058

Nice moving the goal posts there. You didn't say corporate socialist (which is what the Republicans are to much more of an extent than Obama ever was). You said "corporatist and a socialist".

post #723 of 1058

So now you're saying Obama is not really a socialist (the only meaning of the word on its own). You're saying that he's pretending to be a socialist to get votes.

 

It gets even more ridiculous.

post #724 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Nice moving the goal posts there. You didn't say corporate socialist (which is what the Republicans are to much more of an extent than Obama ever was). You said "corporatist and a socialist".

 

I merely explained the terms to you...which you clearly are having trouble with today. Get it straight.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #725 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

So now you're saying Obama is not really a socialist (the only meaning of the word on its own). You're saying that he's pretending to be a socialist to get votes.

 

It gets even more ridiculous.

 

We sometimes he is pretending and sometimes he actually is. It is not or need not be an all or nothing thing. It's not black and white as you clearly think. Some of his policies are socialist, and some are corporatist. He clearly cannot campaign on being a corporatist...in fact he (publicly) speaks against it often, though his actions are quite different.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #726 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

So now you're saying Obama is not really a socialist (the only meaning of the word on its own). You're saying that he's pretending to be a socialist to get votes.

 

It gets even more ridiculous.

 

We sometimes he is pretending and sometimes he actually is. It is not or need not be an all or nothing thing. It's not black and white as you clearly think. Some of his policies are socialist, and some are corporatist. He clearly cannot campaign on being a corporatist...in fact he (publicly) speaks against it often, though his actions are quite different.

 


Ah, I get it. Sometimes he's what you say he is, and sometimes he is the opposite of what you say he is. Shouldn't that make him neither?

 

Time for me to go to sleep. Three hours of work tomorrow.

post #727 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Ah, I get it. Sometimes he's what you say he is, and sometimes he is the opposite of what you say he is.

 

No. Try to keep up: Sometimes he does things that are corporatist. Sometimes he does things that are socialist.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Shouldn't that make him neither?

 

It should make him both.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #728 of 1058

You do not have a handle on the concept of logic, I see.

 

A corporatist does not do socialist things and a socialist does not do corporatist things. An independently thinking individual can do both.

post #729 of 1058

And seriously, I'm going to sleep.

post #730 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

You do not have a handle on the concept of logic, I see.

 

A corporatist does not do socialist things and a socialist does not do corporatist things. An independently thinking individual can do both.

 

Geez. Wow. 1eek.gif lol.gif

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #731 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

 

In Texas, they are considering a requirement to NOT teach critical thinking skills because then kids would question the babble tought them by their parents.

 

That's right, they are considering making ignorance a part of the curriculum.

 

Would it really be a big deal to post a link when you're making broad accusations like this?

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #732 of 1058

Enjoy, Frank.  http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/texas-gop-rejects-critical-thinking-skills-really/2012/07/08/gJQAHNpFXW_blog.html

 

 

 

Quote:
Knowledge-Based Education – We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #733 of 1058

1280 gun deaths in the US since Sandy Hook on December 14th last year- http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/01/us-gun-deaths-sandy-hook_n_2602074.html

 

The total number of US deaths in Afghanistan and Iraq between 2003 to 2012 was 4,486. That's half the total yearly gun murders per year in the US, which total 8,775. 


Edited by Hands Sandon - 2/1/13 at 9:27pm
We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #734 of 1058

Comparing killings in the war to domestic killings at home is proving what in your opinion?Humans are still dying for no dam reason.

post #735 of 1058

Just pointing out the hypocrisy of the right wing, Marv. Here on the left we think we should make an effort to put an end to both.

post #736 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

1280 gun deaths in the US since Sandy Hook on December 14th last year- http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/01/us-gun-deaths-sandy-hook_n_2602074.html

 

The total number of US deaths in Afghanistan and Iraq between 2003 to 2012 was 4,486. That's half the total yearly gun murders per year in the US, which total 8,775. 

 

 

Not to mention the thousands injured in both areas.

 

The military injured are then further subject to injury by the cutting of VA funds by...

 

The rest,well, they don't need insurance.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #737 of 1058

At least you have a positive and reassuring answer for me. Thanks.This gun violence is way out of control completely now.Over 1200 deaths since Sandy Hook.La Pierre is the biggest turd I have ever heard and saw with his bullshit about the back round check not to important to look into.
 

post #738 of 1058

So I got this email earlier this week about how I should show up yesterday to protest Maryland's idiotic proposed gun control law because I belong to a shooting club.

 

But it's worded (slight paraphrase here because I don't have it open) "Join us to show you are against ANY new gun control laws".

 

Which I'm not.  I'm just against stupid ones.  There are some stupid provisions in SB281 but there are quite a few that make sense:

 

  • Prohibiting people with mental illness from owning a gun.
  • 8 hrs mandatory training for handgun permits
  • 16 hrs mandatory training for carry permits (except as a may issue state that's kinda moot)

 

So I was a no show but I guess a couple thousand owners showed up.  And they had the usual dumbshit stuff on signs and I'm sure the majority of non-owners think gun owners are a buncha kooks.

 

What gets me is it's a real echo chamber on the internet shooting forums.  I guess it's the same in the anti-gun forums.

post #739 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

So I got this email earlier this week about how I should show up yesterday to protest Maryland's idiotic proposed gun control law because I belong to a shooting club.

But it's worded (slight paraphrase here because I don't have it open) "Join us to show you are against ANY new gun control laws".

Which I'm not.  I'm just against stupid ones.  There are some stupid provisions in SB281 but there are quite a few that make sense:
  • Prohibiting people with mental illness from owning a gun.
  • 8 hrs mandatory training for handgun permits
  • 16 hrs mandatory training for carry permits (except as a may issue state that's kinda moot)

So I was a no show but I guess a couple thousand owners showed up.  And they had the usual dumbshit stuff on signs and I'm sure the majority of non-owners think gun owners are a buncha kooks.

What gets me is it's a real echo chamber on the internet shooting forums.  I guess it's the same in the anti-gun forums.
There are very few "anti-gun forums". People who are "anti-gun" just post common sense things here or on HP or on Facebook etc. We don't gang up as a group with a single cause.

That's why the "anti-background check" gun nuts can be a huge minority yet have such a screaming voice.

That and the billions spent by the NRA in Washington.
post #740 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

There are very few "anti-gun forums". People who are "anti-gun" just post common sense things here or on HP or on Facebook etc. We don't gang up as a group with a single cause.

 

lol.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

That and the billions spent by the NRA in Washington.

 

You are either misinformed, Making Shit Up™ or lying: http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/clientsum.php?id=D000000082

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #741 of 1058

Or making a figurative exaggeration. Perhaps I should have said "gazillions" at which point you would have called me a liar because that's not a word. 1rolleyes.gif

post #742 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Or making a figurative exaggeration.

 

You've been doing that a lot lately. Or at least using that as your excuse1rolleyes.gif

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #743 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

You've been doing that a lot lately. Or at least using that as your excuse1rolleyes.gif

 

Didn't you know? When he personally attacks you, your family, or your religion, or makes outrageous, baseless claims it's always "metaphorically". So that makes it okay.

 

1oyvey.gif

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #744 of 1058

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #745 of 1058

For the quazillionthion time since Newtown: another shooting.  This time in a courthouse in Delaware.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/11/new-castle-county-courthouse-shooting_n_2661604.html

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #746 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

For the quazillionthion time since Newtown: another shooting.  This time in a courthouse in Delaware.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/11/new-castle-county-courthouse-shooting_n_2661604.html

 

You really think posting a shooting that took place in a government building with metal detectors and a bunch of armed cops who were sworn to protect the people shot helps prove your case that we should all turn in our guns and let the government protect us?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #747 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

 

Isn't Chicago one of the most liberal cities in the country? And doesn't Chicago have some of the strictest gun laws in the country?

Presumably, you'd argue that the UK is more liberal than Chicago, and presumably you'd argue that it has stricter gun control laws?

 

You've repeatedly pointed to the UK as being an extremely violent place, which to a degree I'd actually agree with, but it's much, much less violent than the US.

 

The UK has between 200-220 knife murders each year, and less than 50 gun murders out of a population almost exactly five times less than the US (63 million UK, 315 million USA). For the year from 2011 to 2012 there were a total of 550 murders in the UK (including those found guilty of manslaughter) For 2010 in the US there were 1,704 knife murders alone. Additionally there were 540 blunt object murders. That's almost the same amount as the total murder count in the UK for that year. "Other weapons", which include everything outside of guns, knives, blunt objects, strangulation, fire, narcotics, hands and feet, poison, explosives, asphyxiation and drowning, totalled 874 in the US. That alone is much higher than the UK's total number of murders.

 

The UK is liberal, it has strict gun laws, and it has far, far fewer murders.

 

Check how people are murdered in the US here- http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl08.xls


Edited by Hands Sandon - 2/11/13 at 11:00am
We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #748 of 1058

Do you know how many people died in the U.S. last year because of preventable medical errors? Many, many more than were killed in shootings.

 

If it's about reducing preventable deaths, if it's about saving lives, why are we not hearing about that at least as much as these shootings?

 

I'll tell you why. Because it's not about saving lives. It's about gun control. Or, more precisely, it's about control.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #749 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Do you know how many people died in the U.S. last year because of preventable medical errors? Many, many more than were killed in shootings.

 

If it's about reducing preventable deaths, if it's about saving lives, why are we not hearing about that at least as much as these shootings?

 

I'll tell you why. Because it's not about saving lives. It's about gun control. Or, more precisely, it's about control.

Things are being done to reduce medical errors. Over half of the deaths are caused by medication errors and there's an ongoing battle to try and limit the numbers through better training and electronic monitoring. Having people chipped with RFID would help too. That might even help prevent some of these murders too someday.

We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #750 of 1058

Are you f'ing kidding me?

 

The number one way to lower preventable medical deaths is through socialized medicine. We know this as an observable fact by looking at what is happening in countries outside of the US, countries which have socialized medicine.

 

Why aren't we doing anything about it? Because of people like you.

post #751 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Having people chipped with RFID would help too.

 

I'm sure nothing bad could come from that.

 

1eek.gif

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #752 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

The number one way to lower preventable medical deaths is through socialized medicine. We know this as an observable fact by looking at what is happening in countries outside of the US, countries which have socialized medicine.

 

Citation?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #753 of 1058

http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2012/09/03/gvsd0907.htm
 

Now for the denials in 5...4...3...2..

post #754 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2012/09/03/gvsd0907.htm
 

Now for the denials in 5...4...3...2..

 

So you have a correlation*. Do you have anything that shows a causal relationship between socialized medicine and levels of preventable medical errors or might there possibly be other factors at play?

 

*And this correlation appears to be unclear as well since it only mentions three countries besides the US (United Kingdom, France and Germany).

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #755 of 1058

And we have a winner.

 

How about the historical reduction in mortality rates in those countries that have freely accessible socialized medicine vs. the US?

post #756 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

How about the historical reduction in mortality rates in those countries that have freely accessible socialized medicine vs. the US?

 

Again, citation(s)?

 

If you want to do this right it would be useful to look at all countries with socialized medicine and as long a span of history as possible.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #757 of 1058

And here you go...

 

https://www.impartial-review.com/stories/us-has-more-preventable-deaths-and-improving-at-a-slower-rate-than-europe-514

Quote:
...and Improving at a Slower Rate than Europe...

 

Specifically:

 

Quote:

Between 1999 and 2007, rates of potentially preventable deaths among men under age 75 fell by 18.5 percent in the U.S. During the same time period, the rate declined by 37 percent in the U.K., by 28 percent in France, and by 24 percent in Germany (2006).

post #758 of 1058
Quote:

 

First, this report is the report behind the article you posted. So it's not telling us anything new and still is only comparing to three countries (while implying all of Europe). Nothing new here. There may the correlation you're claiming, but this falls far short of proving it.

 

Second, you quoted one snippet, but didn't quote this: "The lack of progress in the United States was largely attributable to circulatory conditions other than heart disease—mainly cerebrovascular disease and hypertension." both of which are largely related to personal consumption habits. So the differences that are being seen may have little to do with the structure of the healthcare system than the fact that a lot of American eat like shit, get little exercise, smoke, etc.


Edited by MJ1970 - 2/11/13 at 2:29pm

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #759 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

I'm sure nothing bad could come from that.

 

1eek.gif

So am I, quite the reverse. At the moment people in hospital typically wear a band around their wrists. The RFID chips are built into the band and when someone goes into hospital their medical information is put onto the RFID chip. I believe a UK hospital is using it at the moment, but it's still a very new thing.

 

RFID chips embedded into peoples bodies will likely come about only on a voluntary basis. That might deter someone from committing a crime in the first place though.

We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #760 of 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Things are being done to reduce medical errors. Over half of the deaths are caused by medication errors and there's an ongoing battle to try and limit the numbers through better training and electronic monitoring. Having people chipped with RFID would help too. That might even help prevent some of these murders too someday.

 

Yes, let's brand people like cattle and treat them as such because they are too stupid to care for themselves. A regular leftist utopia.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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