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Dell exec warned Microsoft that Windows RT branding would confuse consumers - Page 2

post #41 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by See Flat View Post

On the contrary, they do think like engineers. Designers understand how people view things, and interact with them. (sometimes badly but that is another story)

Engineers cant figure out why people would be confused by a totally different OS that can't run legacy apps since you did ad the letters RT at the end of Windows.

How could our customers, although they have been using some sort of Windows OS for the past 20 years be confused... we clearly added RT which makes it perfectly clear that it is totally different.

 

Engineers would not make that mistake. Used car salesmen would.

post #42 of 76

I wasn't confused. It is an MS product, and created under Ballmer. Nothing confusing about that. 

post #43 of 76
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Ballmer, however, disagreed with Clarke, and argued that the Windows branding was too important not to be used in Microsoft's product.

 

Because Windows is Microsoft's most successful product, not because it makes any sense from a product standpoint. They're naively trying to use Windows' success to create a "halo effect" for their other products.  Won't work.  To most people "Windows" means "that crappy XP downgrade they put on all the PCs at work."  Not exactly halo-ish.

 

Microsoft is so focused on Windows that they changed their corporate logo to include the 4 colored squares from the Windows logo.  They claim the blue represents Windows, the red represents Office, the green represents Xbox, and the yellow represents something else (Bing maybe?)  But who are they kidding?  Those are the same 4 colors that have been in the Windows logo since 1992.

 

Ultimately, a product's brand name isn't what makes it succeed or fail.  If it's great, people will buy it and make it a success.  If it sucks, people will avoid it and it will fail.  iPhone would have succeeded even if it were called "Mac Phone."  iPad would have succeeded even if it were called "Mac Pad." Slate with Windows RT and Slate with Windows 8 Pro?  Not looking good. 

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post #44 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Ballmer really needs to be let go.

 

Fixed that for you.

Pot is legal in North Korea.
That explains a considerable amount.

"The United States will respond proportionally at a place and time we choose..."
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Pot is legal in North Korea.
That explains a considerable amount.

"The United States will respond proportionally at a place and time we choose..."
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post #45 of 76

the RT is misbegotten. it will flop, bad. Zune 2.

 

MS could and should unify its ARM tablet, phone, and XBox OS all with the same consistent "Modern" UI. and totally leave out the legacy Windows UI crap they don't really use much anyway. that would be a well-defined ecosystem that would all reinforce each other and carve out some meaningful share of the overall markets.

 

while its desktop OS and Intel tablet would eschew the Modern UI totally and simply offer a touch UI optimized update of Windows 7. that would have been a consistent product for those who prefer using touch, especially for laptops. it would have been quite popular i think.

 

but instead MS has jammed everything together into Windows 8, and the result is a confusing mess. another flop.

 

this stupidity could only be driven by marketing BS hype as the primiary strategy, instead of prioritizing user satisfaction.

 

and we all know who is responsbile for that.

post #46 of 76

And all tech discussion aside, I'm sorry, but Microsoft lost me before this tablet even came out, when I found out what "RT" stood for: Nothing.

 

Ballmer fights to get Microsoft branding on this thing, but forgets to do the end of the name as well.

 

Champion.


Edited by GTR - 12/17/12 at 1:41pm
Pot is legal in North Korea.
That explains a considerable amount.

"The United States will respond proportionally at a place and time we choose..."
Reply
Pot is legal in North Korea.
That explains a considerable amount.

"The United States will respond proportionally at a place and time we choose..."
Reply
post #47 of 76
Originally Posted by GTR View Post
Fixed that for you.

 

Ballmer being CEO is the best thing that has happened to Apple in a long time.

 

I can only hope that there is an equivalently stupid person at Google just waiting to take the throne.

post #48 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

I can only hope that there is an equivalently stupid person at Google just waiting to take the throne.

 

Someone with real schmidt-for-brains, you reckon?

 

A great man once said that for Apple to win Microsoft didn't have to lose.

 

However, when he quoted this, I don't think he took into consideration how much more enjoyable than fireworks that would be to watch.

Pot is legal in North Korea.
That explains a considerable amount.

"The United States will respond proportionally at a place and time we choose..."
Reply
Pot is legal in North Korea.
That explains a considerable amount.

"The United States will respond proportionally at a place and time we choose..."
Reply
post #49 of 76
Originally Posted by GTR View Post
A great man once said that for Apple to win Microsoft didn't have to lose.

 

However, when he quoted this, I don't think he took into consideration how much more enjoyable than fireworks that would be to watch.

 

It's interesting that while Apple still isn't "winning", Microsoft certainly is losing; there's just nothing but Apple to fill the gap.

post #50 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


"Someone" from Dell, not even the CEO, seems to be smarter than the top guy at Microsoft. How can the MS Board not get the big picture...

 

That is because Microsoft only knows how to produce what they want you to have and what they think you need while Apple produces what consumers want (exceptions excluded).

post #51 of 76
I'm wondering why this is any different from Windows CE?
post #52 of 76
I have run windows xp, windows 7 on the desktop as well as linux. I have also run Mac OS and have ipads/iphones. I have also done system admin for major websites using GUI and line commands for windows 2000, 2003 and Linux. I've tried both windows 8 and RT. After 5 minutes on each gave up completely. Biggest fail ever by Microsoft.

If Microsoft wants to stay in the game they better bail on windows 8 and keep selling windows 7 for a long time until they un-Vista windows 8.

This Ballmer screw up is the biggest tailwind for Apple. Expect bigger iMac numbers and laptops from apple once they start shipping as the defection away from the Wintel platform continues thanks to this blunder.
post #53 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

This makes no sense.  What's the point of having Windows "running everywhere" if it doesn't look like Windows, act like Windows?  

1- Windows "runs"?

2- If it crashes, it acts like Windows. I trust MS to make this dream a sad reality.

3- Looks like Windows. Sounds like something I don't want to see, my eyes are precious.

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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post #54 of 76
"The company began expanding availability of the Surface beyond its own retail stores just last week in an effort to boost sales and exposure." - and to boost returns and the number of angry customers! How many ways can you spell fail other than "Microsoft"?
post #55 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post

I think the naming is a good idea. Bad for the consumer, but good in the long term. It's meant so that people begin to understand that windows can run everywhere and people will be able to do the same stuff everywhere, even if it's not the case yet.
I'm sorry! Are we reading the same article and the same reviews of this pig! The point is that it IS NOT WINDOWS since it doesn't run Windows apps!!!!!
post #56 of 76
Windows RT =
Retard Trap
ReturnToday
Retarded Terminology
Rejected Tech
Repurposed Turd
post #57 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xplatformer View Post

What crap in Windows RT are you referring to?
Obviously, the pig Win RT itself.
post #58 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xplatformer View Post

So people are going to try install and run a Windows app that's not available through the Windows store? Is that what you're saying people are going to try and do?
Do people really want to install OS X apps on their iPads? No?
Then why do people not seem to comprehend the reasoning behind RT? Its a tablet OS that shares certain usability features with Windows 8.
Then why are so many people returning them that they had to revise the return policy? Duh!!!
post #59 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post

Fixed that for you.
Please! No! It's too much fun having him around!
post #60 of 76

They just cant develop successful new brands. So MS keeps falling back on Windows. I am suprise it wasn't WinPod music player, WinBox gaming console, Winmail, Winsearch. Even as a Mac fan, i am sometimes mad and disappointed that they are failing so bad.

 

Losers

post #61 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by umrk_lab View Post

 

 

Very good point. But MicroSoft Motto is "Win-Dows-Eve-Ry-Where". Repeat after me ".....

 

... "Stupid is as stupid does."

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #62 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by icoco3 View Post

 

That is because Microsoft only knows how to produce what they want you to have and what they think you need while Apple produces what consumers want (exceptions excluded).

 

I think it's because Ballmer is not the right person to lead Microsoft.

Hmmmmmm...
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Hmmmmmm...
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post #63 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhyde View Post

I'm wondering why this is any different from Windows CE?

 

With Windows CE, Microsoft actually looked viable. Now they look like clowns.

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #64 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

 

I think it's because Ballmer is not the right person to lead Microsoft.

May Uncle Fester remain at the helm for a long long time...

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #65 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xplatformer View Post

So people are going to try install and run a Windows app that's not available through the Windows store? Is that what you're saying people are going to try and do?
Do people really want to install OS X apps on their iPads? No?
Then why do people not seem to comprehend the reasoning behind RT? Its a tablet OS that shares certain usability features with Windows 8.

 

You need to understand that the average Windows customer is not the brightest bulb in the room... 

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #66 of 76
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post
Windows RT =

 

Reaching, Tragically.

post #67 of 76
The fact that they want to run full Windows on a tablet means they still just don't get it!
post #68 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

MS could and should unify its ARM tablet, phone, and XBox OS all with the same consistent "Modern" UI. and totally leave out the legacy Windows UI crap they don't really use much anyway. that would be a well-defined ecosystem that would all reinforce each other and carve out some meaningful share of the overall markets.

 

The problem is that in order to sell any of these abortions they needed the lure of Office... and they borked the RT version of that so badly that they had to include the "legacy desktop mode" JUST to get office running on it. Originally RT wasn't meant to have desktop mode at all - in the end they were forced to include it just to support Office - no other apps will be able to use it as windows store apps are forced to use the ifkam (interface formally known as metro - I hate the phrase "modern ui").

 

The fact that Microsoft can't even get their own flagship office suite running in ifkam doesn't bode well for anyone else...

post #69 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by aelegg View Post

Does Rovio have to develop Angry Birds twice; for the RT and the 8 Surface?


It may not SOUND that much different than having to do it for iOS, then OS X, but it is. 

 

If your game makes $ on iOS, it can pay for the follow-on OS X development if necessary. 

 

Plus by now your people are iOS experts.

 

Here, Rovio must say, "Does it have a prayer of selling on either one?"


It seems bad for developers.


I have released several apps for Windows 8/RT now.  It takes no extra work to develop for both.  All you do is write the app once and for the target CPU  just select all then build and it creates an app package that will work on Windows RT and Windows 8 32bit and 64bit.

 

Also say what you want about the platform but the development tools are excellent.


Edited by qualar - 12/18/12 at 5:28am
post #70 of 76
DaveMcM76 View Post

Originally RT wasn't meant to have desktop mode at all - in the end they were forced to include it just to support Office - no other apps will be able to use it as windows store apps are forced to use the ifkam (interface formally known as metro - I hate the phrase "modern ui").

The fact that Microsoft can't even get their own flagship office suite running in ifkam doesn't bode well for anyone else...

That's the fiefdom at work. The Office team has traditionally steered Windows UI; Windows Explorer does have a ribbon now...

 

qualar View Post

I have released several apps for Windows 8/RT now.  It takes no extra work to develop for both.  All you do is write the app once and for the target CPU  just select all then build and it creates an app package that will work on Windows RT and Windows 8 32bit and 64bit.

Also say what you want about the platform but the development tools are excellent.

That's fine for developers. Are users still required to choose which binary to download? As in:

 

  • 32 bit for Windows XP SP3
  • 32 bit for Windows Vista SP1, Windows 7
  • 64 bit for Windows XP SP3
  • 64 bit for Windows Vista SP1, Windows 7
  • 32 bit for .NET Framework

 

etc, add on for Windows RT / Windows 8 / 32 / 64.

 

The goal should be to make that invisible to users. Mac OS X apps have been universal binary since 2005, containing up to four architectures in a single package (32/64 PPC/x86), silently executing the appropriate one. iOS is the same with iPad/iPhone binaries, for the most part; There are still a handful of games that use the old 'App' vs 'App HD' model.

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post #71 of 76
Windows 95, 98, XP, Vista, 7, RT

I don't understand how anyone could be confused, the pattern is obvious. Much more logical than the whole sequential numbering system Apple uses for Mac OS X.
post #72 of 76
Originally Posted by Creek0512 View Post
Windows 95, 98, XP, Vista, 7, 8 (and RT, too!)

 

It's more of a cheesy 1980s cartoon sidekick than a real operating system.

post #73 of 76
Quote (Creek0512):

Windows 95, 98, XP, Vista, 7, RT

I don't understand how anyone could be confused, the pattern is obvious. ...

 

LOL.  And don't forget Windows NT, 98SE, 2000, and ME.

Must be a method in the madness.  Somewhere.

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post #74 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by qualar View Post


I have released several apps for Windows 8/RT now.  It takes no extra work to develop for both.  All you do is write the app once and for the target CPU  just select all then build and it creates an app package that will work on Windows RT and Windows 8 32bit and 64bit.

[...]

 

And how's that Windows Phone 7 + Windows Phone 8 + Surface with RT + Surface with Windows 8 Pro write-once thing going?

Yeah, thought so.  Sucks, doesn't it?

 

It's easy to build universal apps for iPhone + iPod touch + iPad + iPad mini.  For iOS 5 and 6.

You should try it some time.  Save you a lot of hassle.  And there's a vastly bigger user base.

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post #75 of 76

The general public usually refers to Microsoft's next console as "XBox 720," but one wonders what odd naming convention it will actually bring to the table next year. XBox RT?

My money is on a focus group being paid an exorbitant sum to find a word representing today's modern hardcore casual youthful mature gamer, and tack it onto the brand name. Add a dash of riding Apple's recent branding coattails, and you have the "XBox Storm."

 

Then we add various configurations, each with their own variation:

 

  • "XBox Storm with Eye Of The Storm Kinect v2.0"
  • "XBox Hurricane Storm 4K," supporting the next generation of HDTVs.
  • "XBox Sprinkle" is the 360 Arcade model's successor, equally crippled with 4GB of storage.
  • Finally, "XBox Tornado," the smaller hardware variant that comes two years later, once they work all the bugs out.

 

SockRolid View Post
And don't forget Windows NT, 98SE, 2000, and ME.

Well, I had managed to forget Windows ME until now. Thanks a lot, you ruined m'day.

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post #76 of 76
Originally Posted by Vorsos View Post
Finally, "XBox Tornado," the smaller hardware variant that comes two years later, once they work all the bugs out.

 

And which still red rings.

 

What a wonderful naming scheme you've created: it's probably the most accurate of any before. 

 

"Xbox Storm wreaks havoc on Microsoft's servers." "Xbox Tornado is a devastating failure." "Xbox Hurricane floods call center with problems."

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