Apple predicted to build cheaper 'iPhone for the masses' - Page 3

Yep, and with options (internationally) of Pre-Paid or PAYG as well, it would open Apple up into a market they do not currently participate in.

 

The only cannibalization would be of the iPod.

 

The 4" iPhone is safe from cannibalization...almost zero persons would buy an iPhone Nano instead of a 4" iPhone.  I take that back, if the economy gets much worse, many of us will be back to 12 key cellphones.  :-)

 

No, it's not like that at all. The iPad mini isn't a bargain-basement priced iPad. It may be cheaper than a 9.7" iPad, but it's not aiming for the bottom of the market.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The kind of cheap phone these people are calling for doesn't need any special cache. If anything, slap iPod Nano coloured front and back plates on an iPhone 4 and be done with it. I see plenty of people with iPhone 4's and 3GS's still, there's no social stigma from having these older models, and they don't seem to mind not having the latest and greatest.

Sorry... I disagree.

Apple doesn't want to sell a "cheap, new" phone that might be fashionable. They would rather sell you the "best, new" iPhone for $650+

And more people buy it... estimates are that 89% of iPhone sales are the current model.

I also disagree about the market share thing. Apple has been "losing" the market share race against Android for about 2 years. Has there been a quarter where the iPhone lost Apple money?

But hey... that's why Apple cancelled the entire Mac line... since they could never beat Windows in market share.

Oh wait... that never happened. Apparently market share isn't their highest priority since their laptops start at $1000.

 

Not yet.

 

Yep, let's just jump on something I wasn't talking about.

 

The plans are $30 a month regardless of the phone you get.

 

Why do they matter, is all.

 

The point being what? I still say that. Drop the iPad 2 to $299 and you don't need an iPad mini. 

 

It worked for the iPhone. It worked spectacularly well for the iPhone.

 

Those're two different things, though.

 

Yep.  It would dilute the brand image if they came out with a cheap phone.  At least the 4 and 4s were the top dog in their day.  To come out with a phone that is brand new and already outdated would take from the iPhone mystique and do more harm long term.  That market is already being served by plenty of low cost/low performance phones that fill that need and if people want a lower priced iPhone, there is the the above mentioned 4 and 4s.  Apple could lower their margins on those if they really want to get into that market, but their "premium" branding would take a hit.  The iPad mini was a different form-factor so that does not apply here.  

Yup, cheaper and crappier. Certainly the way to go for Apple... (/sarcastic)

Sadly Tim Cook might do this. Look at the iPad mini.

Hmm. 

 

All throughout recent Apple history, people have claimed that Apple would "never do that".   E.g.  A Verizon iPhone.  Continue to manufacture and sell old iPhone models.  Make a 7" tablet.  Make the screen any larger. 

 

Or now, make a cheaper iPhone.

 

Apple progressively made cheaper iPod models, which helped keep the market to themselves. 

 

Why would they not do the same with the iPhone?   Heck, they wouldn't even have to sell it in the US, if they worried that it might cheapen the experience some feel.  After all, it would have lesser specs to lower the price.

 

No intelligent person ever claimed that.

 

Stop making things up. Just stop. It destroys any other non-made up point you may have had.

 

It's not made up, and I didn't say that an intelligent person ever claimed that.   Just that many people did.

 

Do you never visit other forums?

Given the disappointing sales of Apple products, it's obvious they've no choice but to release cheap products for the masses. From Mac to iThingies, how can they fail to have learned that you can't succeed without undercutting the competition's prices?

 

[citation needed]

I think they should produce a budget phone for markets like India and China. This does not stop them selling the high-end phones too, but non-retina displays will be just as popular. Think a 3G level but with faster processor and possible slightly size larger too. After all, smaller is typically more expensive to engineer.

They can focus on revenue from the app store in those markets. They need to be there gaining back market share, otherwise they will continue to fall out of the world's biggest markets.

 

So the 6th-gen iPhone in two years.

 

They've only ever been gaining marketshare.

Any market for an iPhone nano?

I don't see it happening. I don't see the need, people aren't asking for a smaller iPhone. Maybe a cheaper one but Apple isn't going to make one just for that. Maybe a new iPhone with a 4 inch screen, less powerful processor and colors.

Is the iPad 2 diluting the image of Apple? They are very good to present new stuff in a good light. Just put it at the end of a presentation "and a new 8 Gb model, with A5 processor and in three colors". Teenagers would love it.

The black model would remain the top of the line. It's psychological, but this kind of thing works very well on markets. It would even reinforce the feeling people have with their top-line iPhones.

iPad 2 no issues alongside iPad 4. iPad mini... I think it could have been more polished.

Tree pigs?


I don't get that. What falls short?

 

 

 

http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/108197/verizon-iphone-seen-as-unlikely-from-apple-in-2010

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=302362

Edited by Gatorguy - 12/18/12 at 6:17am

 

I see an article that sits parallel to what I've said and a thread of regular people with zero verified data talking about things.

 

Anyone on a forum can say anything and mean anything by it. They can have zero information on the subject and say the same things as a real insider, or vice versa. That doesn't make their opinions worth anything ('anything' including, of course, consideration after the fact).

 

Articles by analysts have more worth than random forum comments simply because they're paid and because they have other humans reposting their words. However they have zero accountability and often zero credibility as a result thereof. 

T
But the Ipad2 was once their flagship tablet, much like the iPhone 4 and 4s. They continue to make them to service the budget market. To come out with a brand new product with cheaper and older parts would diminish what apple is known for which is premium products. You can already add skins or wraps to customize your phone so I don't see them doing that but stranger things have happened.

A few people are commenting on Virgin's $30 plan. Virgin runs on Sprint's cast off network. It is apparently inferior to, or at least incompatible with, the networks the iPhone 5 rund on. That it why Virgin does not offer the iPhone 5.

 

I would have thought it was more that they have zero LTE access, and therefore wouldn't be able to market it properly. And it's a $30 plan conditionally. It's $35 under regular terms.

All these "analyst" posts about the iPhone are just drivel. stupid drivel. i guess AI can't find much else to scrape these days. joining the Race To The Bottom in any market is the last thing Apple will ever do.

 

what it will do, tho, is come up with amazing new devices - at high end prices. myself, i'm waiting for the first real wristwatch video/smartphone, a la Dick Tracy. last year's Nano iPod was a tease. as soon as the iPhone guts can all be miniturized sufficiently, i expect Apple to do it. might just be a year or two. that would be a whole lot better than sticking distracting crap into your eyeglasses - we're not cyborgs.

iPhone 4 with 8GB is being sold by Vodafone NZ for NZ$599, as seen here:

https://www.vodafone.co.nz/shop/mobileDetails.jsp?skuId=sku22100061

4s with 16GB is NZ$849, as seen here:

https://www.vodafone.co.nz/shop/mobileDetails.jsp?skuId=sku10970011

As an example, HTC 8s is NZ$449, Sony Expertia U is NZ$399... etc.

I think both 4 and 4s should be more affordable at this stage.

The screen. Compared to Nexus 7, Droid DNA, HTC One X, etc. Compared to Android smartphones and tablets, it is somewhat blurry, colours are not vivid, the panel also sits a little deeper from the glass surface.

iPad 4? No doubt, best tablet in the world... Although I am shocked they didn't reduce the weight. It is heavy comparatively, seems like a shame.

 

So... the iPad 2 has "no issues" and the iPad Mini ( with a higher pixel density) is "blurry".

 

?

the customers of which you speak are not the customers for which Apple builds devices. They're the same customers that buy $399 laptops that suck. Apple builds quality devices for people with disposable income who recognize the value in a better product. They will NEVER build a crappy device solely to capture the low-end (and low-margin) market. PC manufacturers have failed over and over again to create a sustainable business model serving "cheapest price" customers on 5% operating margin. It doesn't work, and now those businesses are the albatrosses weighing down HP and Dell. Apple, on the other hand, builds better products, makes 30% margin, and is sitting on 130B in cash with the largest market cap in the world as a result.

They did update the CPU. It's possible that they couldn't fit all the changes they wanted because they jumped the annual pipeline to get Lightning out in their flagship iPad.

 

In an ideal world. Also for most of their recent history, yes. But…

 

Seems they already have. In two instances it works really well. In the other…

In this case it's not just pixel density because everything is smaller. It's nowhere near retina quality so yes, it is blurry because of colours, contrast and other issues. Just compare one to a Nexus 7 and iPad 2.

Bullshit!

What was your previous handle(s) before getting banned?

 

See, that's why I don't like the idea of "switching" usernames at ALL. I would prefer having MacRumors' rule here, whereby if you're caught having more than one account, both are just banned outright, and no "moving to a new account".

He moved, wasn't banned, and that's all that I believe I can say. I don't remember if he has posted his switch publicly. Now you can see why I'm against switching.

Huh? There was one move which was greenlighted by the mods. I won't go into my previous username but suffice to say I've highlighted it before to some of you.

I understand the concerns about switching but there were specific reasons for my move to a new username. I was never banned previously. Infractions, yes, but not banned.

The iPad mini screen is not great. If you don't believe it by comparing one in person, consider the following:

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/11/05/ipad-mini-display-judged-very-capable-but-falls-short-of-ipad-and-android-competitors/
http://www.cultofmac.com/199436/the-ipad-mini-you-should-probably-wait-until-the-second-generation-review/
http://www.cultofmac.com/199749/the-ipad-minis-display-doesnt-stack-up-well-against-the-competition-but-theres-still-hope/

.........................................................................................

http://www.displaymate.com/iPad_mini_ShootOut_1.htm

"...The iPad mini is certainly a very capable small Tablet, but it does not follow in Apple’s tradition of providing the best display, or at least a great display – it has just a very capable display. What’s more, the displays on existing mini Tablets from Amazon and Google outperform the iPad mini in most of our Lab tests as documented below in the Shoot-Out Comparison Table. Some of this results from constraints within the iPad product line, and some to realistic constraints on display technology and costs, but much of it is due to a number of poor choices and compromises."

"...As we have pointed out a number of times, the best way to increase visual text sharpness on any display is by using Sub-Pixel Rendering, which Apple should now implement in order for the iPad mini to become competitive on visual sharpness…"

.........................................................................................

That's what I'm telling people here, take off the blinders. Apple didn't do their best job with the iPad mini, Steve Jobs absent notwithstanding.

It's better than the iPad 2 display and better than the iPhone 3GS and older display. Why? Because it's 163 PPI -and- IPS as opposed to being 132 PPI -and/or- TN.

Where did Apple provide the best display for the iPod Touch WHICH CAME AFTER THE IPHONE? They didn't, at least not until the iPod Touch for 2012 which means 4 generations of iPod Touch displays were inferior to the displays used on the iPhone that came months before it. They also used a lower PPI on the iPad than the iPhone and we know which came out after the other one.

It's very simple. The only reasonable way to make the iPad mini work was to use a 1024x768 display so they iPad apps would still work relatively well. They then choose 163 PPI panels because they had a lot of experience with those from 3 generations of iPhone and iPod Touches. All of this allows for great quality with a lower cost. When the time is right — I don't think before 2014 — they will release an iPad mini with a Retina display that is still lightweight and has a 10 hour battery.

Let's not forget that in the year 2012 it was still seen as impossible for Apple to offer a 2048x1536 display on such a small device that runs ARM and is expected to have a 10 hour battery life (which they did by making it thicker and heavier) and now you and et al. are acting disappointed because in that same year in a much smaller package with a much denser display it's not feasible.

How can anyone claim to be an expert of displays and not understand how sub pixels are lad out.
Edited by SolipsismX - 12/19/12 at 8:05pm

Yes, perhaps (not necessarily IMO) better than the iPad 2 and of course better than an iPhone 3GS display. But we're comparing to Nexus 7, for example.

Nexus 7 is 216 ppi, 720p HD (1280x800 actually) and IPS.

Nexus 7 has a better contrast ratio than even the iPad 3:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nexus-7-test-jelly-bean,3249-5.html

Let's ignore that your point has changed this make belief "tradition" of Apple providing the best display you're now upset that Apple's display doesn't have a PPI as high as some other device? Big fucking deal. At CES we'll see some other crap that will go nowhere that will try to claim that it's slightly higher than some other device.

Guess what? The Nexus 10 is 300 PPI thus beating the iPad at 264 PPI but I think it would foolish for Apple to **** itself, their developers, and customer base to create a 301 PPI display just to get ahead of the Nexus 10.


PS: It's odd that you'd argue that Nexus has a better contrast ratio but ignore that iPad mini is brighter. No, wait, ignoring certain details to make a parisian point over any attempt at an objective and rational comment, no, that's not odd for you at all.

I'm not sure why you're going nuts over this. I'm just saying the iPad mini is not great and that the Nexus 7 has a better screen.

Talking about specs, I thought (and still believe) that specs per se are not important for Apple ~ it's the experience, and the experience of the iPad mini is not that polished, IMO, regardless of specs of this or that device.

And was it not Steve Jobs' comment that taking an iPad interface and shrinking it to 7" would require users to "shave" down their fingers to use it properly? Perhaps that's why an iPad mini was never released during his tenure? Food for thought. No "bashing", "slamming" or anything going on. Just discussion.
Edited by sr2012 - 12/20/12 at 12:25am

And by my usage of Apple, Nexus, & Samsung...the iPad Mini is the best in terms of overall usage (screen, battery life, apps, everyday usage, and polished-ness or whatever the hell you seem to think polished even means).  To take it further, I've asked others to try my iPad Mini in specific regards to the screen quality and in every case, they thought the screen quality was wonderful with no criticisms whatsoever.  Keep in mind that there will ALWAYS be reviews that state the "cons", but as long as those cons do not impact the user in any significant way, most people could give a crap about that specific con.  I mean no disrespect for those holding out for Retina...because better is always, well...better.

 

Will there be a better screen somewhere?  Will there be a better spec somewhere?  Yes.  And in that, I agree with you.

 

But overall, the iPad Mini is proving itself to be a wonderful addition to almost every single person I know and its selling incredibly well across the globe.

 

Holding out obsessively for a better product and/or having heart burn about a specific spec is just a tragic FWP that needs to be stamped out.

 

P.S. FWP = First World Problems...bit of cynical humor there.

Yeah, fair enough. In ~my~ view I prefer the Nexus 7"... I can see people that enjoy the iPad mini, but I certainly can see the benefits and appeal of the Nexus 7.

Personally I was disappointed with the iPad mini screen and a family friend (slightly elderly lady) was also quite disappointed because she was holding out for a good 7" tablet and I recommended she buy the iPad 4 instead, which she did.

I tell you, since returning (finally after 7 years of hell) to a first world country, I thank my lucky stars and the Divine that I can now be safe and comfy with my first world problems. Ah, debating iOS vs Android while my organic lamb stew cooks in my European-made oven*... Beautiful.

*slight exaggeration
Edited by sr2012 - 12/21/12 at 4:05am