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Apple's reported 'Lightning only' MFi terms restrict combo adapters - Page 2

post #41 of 58
Adapter for $9.00 at ice monkey.com.
http://www.icemonkey.com/lightning-to-30-pin-adapter-for-iphone-5-ipad-4-ipod-touch-5th-gen-and-nano-7th-gen
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #42 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
How is a USB port not convenient? Plug in any cable from any manufacturer.

 

If we were talking about devices that provided a socket, then I agree a USB socket would be the most sensible to provide.

 

However we are talking about devices that provide a plug end, to enable the user to turn up with nothing more than their device.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

1. Why would I (as a passenger) wait to trust the actual adapter for such and such product when thousands of people have manhandled it before me? I'll use my own and not damage my device because I know where my adapter cable has been.

 

You are free to take what ever (IMO bonkers) levels of cleanliness to the insides of your sockets as you yourself wish.

 

However, I would point out that provision of cable end for charging is normal, and that is what I am talking about, with many such devices all over the world.

Additionally I would point out your socket is actually exposed to the air, elements, etc all the time, even with most cases fitted.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

2. Why should I (as an airport owner) want to waste thousands of dollars on dozens of different adapter cables (no, contrary to your fantasy, not everything uses MicroUSB) when I could just offer a wall of USB ports so that passengers can plug in anything they wish?

 

Firstly, I must take issue when you say: "no, contrary to your fantasy, not everything uses MicroUSB".

I have not said anything like that, futhermore your use of the term 'fantasy' in reference to a positon you claim I have expressed casts aspersions on my mental proprietary.

It is 1353 GMT, I expect you to either provide a link to where you claim I have ever said this, or an appology and correction statement to be posted promptly.

 

I would agree that just providing a USB socket would be easier (and no doubt cheaper) for the provider. However to make life easier for the USER. moible charging stations usually provide the cable ends, to enable the user to just turn up with their phone. The much greater benefit and convenience is worth the marginal additional cost if you are an airline premium lounge provider, or corporate hospitality / lobby reception provision manager.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

There has, is, and will never be a case for MicroUSB.

 

Mobile devices wear out at different times to their chargers, people often would like to be able to charge their friends/colleagues devices. People would be able to travel with only a single charging devices for multiple phones/devices.

 

There are many solid reasons for MicroUSB standardisations.

 

Lightling does have some design advantages over MicroUSB:

- Reversibility

- Heightened robustness.

 

It also has some clever features:

- Dymanic pin assigment.

 

However, the dynamic pin assignment makes it difficult and needlessly expensive to produce dumb chargers. As a result, I strongly suspect there is a default dumb pin mode of operation for power only. Or power+data. I would have a lot more respect for Apples position, if they opened lightning as a free use standard. Even if pin use was only standardised for charging, or charging plus basic data.

 

I also remain convinced that Apple could have developed a device socket that was compatible with both microUSB plugs and a new reversible connector design close to lightning.

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post #43 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveMcM76 View Post

That is thunderbolt not lightning... .I would guess the terms are different for that port as Apple don't own it outright - it was a collaboration with Intel... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbolt_(interface)

Ah, the joys of reading and posting at way too early in the morning. Thanks for pointing out my error in my sleepiness.
post #44 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I don't see Apple creating another dock unless it's something unique.

I wouldn't mind having a wall charger with two USB ports so I could attach my own choice of cables.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #45 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I wouldn't mind having a wall charger with two USB ports so I could attach my own choice of cables.

So get one, Belkin and Griffin both make them and a car charger with 2 ports as well.
Edited by dasanman69 - 12/21/12 at 6:30am
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #46 of 58

The guy should redesign the product. Make it a series of LEGO-like bricks that attach to each other in succession. The first brick is an AC/DC converter with an AC cord. The rest have one retractable charging cord each and a DC pass-through. Each brick is sold as a separate product, so Apple's restriction does not apply. Customers can build charging stations according to their unique device mix. Still cheaper and more efficient than what we have now (one AC/DC converter per port).

post #47 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveMcM76 View Post

 

The problem with that particular memorandum of understanding is that it was worded vaguely enough to allow for the MicroUSB connection to be provided using an adapter.... which Apple have sold in europe for a couple of years and now sell in the US - http://store.apple.com/uk/product/MD820ZM/A/lightning-to-micro-usb-adapter?fnode=45

Dave, this doesn't surprise me at all; reminds me of the fuss over the English court decision.... Some things need to be written in language that a 3 year old can understand otherwise there's the potential to ignore the spirit of things & go off, make a new adapter but sell a cnversion type connector.

post #48 of 58

This makes no sense to me.   I can understand Apple enforcing that any Apple-approved charging device MUST have a Lightning connector.  But what's the harm in producing a charging device that includes Lightning, the 30-pin and USB?    After all, Apple still sells products that use those other connectors and even if they didn't, what's wrong with a device that supports multiple devices in the household?  Why do we have to have 30 wall warts?    

 

This kind of arrogance by Apple hurts them more than it helps them because it really pisses people off.  (It pisses me off, anyway).   They should be celebrating that multiple manufacturers want to produce products for their devices that they don't want to produce themselves.   

 

I've already bought online some USB to Lightning cables not made by Apple for under $9 each.  They're a bit "tighter" than Apple's cable, but they work fine.     I don't know whether they're authorized or not.   

post #49 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

 

As a consumer, the bit that says I don't have to f*ck around working out which way to plug it in...

 

...oh, yeah and it is far more powerful than USB, just like the 30 pin connector it replaced.

Hi hill,

 

I can see your point here although have to ask in all seriousness if you or anyone you know feels aggrieved at having to 'f*ck around' with a cable.  There's only really two ways it can go in & as humans I think we've all managed to do that successfully for years with mundane things such as house keys, batteries, pants etc...  To think that users of technical products struggle with this is a little far fetched to me.

 

As for the connector being more powerful than USB, so what?  What benefit is the average user going to see?  Does it make the phone charge quicker somehow or does it do intangible performance increases such as data speed?  Intangible for the average user.. What impact is that going to make to someone loading a tune or two onto the phone; surely only a marginal increase in an area that isn't exactly painful?

 

This smacks to me of the cables scenario with a company charging approx 100 times what you could pick up AV cables for - charge the consumer way more for something that supposedly is 'better' than all the other gold plated cable available but actually provides nothing that improves anything unless the consumer happens to have the very highest end kit available in which case they might see a 1% picture improvement.

post #50 of 58
Originally Posted by whatever71 View Post
—rant—

 

We've been over this. I'm not going to waste my time saying the same things again. Go find another thread about MicroUSB and read the points against it. The EU is meaningless.


Originally Posted by Bishop of Southwark View Post
However we are talking about devices that provide a plug end, to enable the user to turn up with nothing more than their device.

 

Have you ever traveled with nothing more than your device? Honestly? This point is moot.

 

You are free to take what ever (IMO bonkers) levels of cleanliness to the insides of your sockets as you yourself wish.

 

… I don't recall mentioning cleanliness, so it's interesting that you'd jump right there. I'm talking about ports being damaged beyond repair by broken adapters. I'm talking about corrosion on the adapter spreading to your device. 

 

I would agree that just providing a USB socket would be easier (and no doubt cheaper) for the provider. However to make life easier for the USER.

 

See above.

 

Mobile devices wear out at different times to their chargers, people often would like to be able to charge their friends/colleagues devices. People would be able to travel with only a single charging devices for multiple phones/devices.

 

Is this somehow a case for MicroUSB?

 

There are many solid reasons for MicroUSB standardisations.

 

Have you named any?

 

I also remain convinced that Apple could have developed a device socket that was compatible with both microUSB plugs and a new reversible connector design close to lightning.

 

Why would they have done that?

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #51 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

We've been over this. I'm not going to waste my time saying the same things again. Go find another thread about MicroUSB and read the points against it. The EU is meaningless.

 

----blinkered rant-----

 

 

The EU is meaningless....

I'll give you that one, I've not actually laughed over an internet post for a while.  Shame it wasn't specifically the content of the post that made me laugh more than the author of it.

 

As an admin do you not feel ashamed that you're unable to have a mature conversation on here with members?  All you do is attack the person with snidey or outright insulting comments.  You're view isn't automatically correct TS; you need to grow up & accept that.  If you can't then please do people on here a favour & relinquish your admin role.

post #52 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I wouldn't mind having a wall charger with two USB ports so I could attach my own choice of cables.

So get one, Belkin and Griffin both make them and a car charger with 2 ports as well.

Sorry I didn't quite complete that thought. I would like to have an Apple brand charger with dual ports.

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post #53 of 58
Other than having a reversible connector and generating licensing fees, what else can Lightning do that USB cannot?
post #54 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

Other than having a reversible connector and generating licensing fees, what else can Lightning do that USB cannot?

What can the 30-pin connector that USB can't do? The answer is everything plus a lot more. Instead of being 30 pins that are statically designed for individual tasks Lightning can dynamically make the 8-pins do whatever it wants acvording to whatever type of HW it's plugged into. Now consider that the 30-pin connector lasted a decade and across 3 different device platforms. In there is a ceiling on Lightning we surely isn't even close to coming into view.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #55 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolfactor View Post

$40 for a cable is painful, but if the pricing is part of Apple's tactic to ensure that only quality, well-designed products make it to market, then I applaud them. I know I was left confused and concerned by the array of unapproved 3rd-party 30-pin based devices and cables available at retail. For the relatively few that I tried, there were incompatibilities between them. I'm hoping that Lightening's implementation is consistent across the board from the very start for well into its lifetime.

you really think it costs apple (or anyone) anywhere near $40 for a cable???  unless these cables are hand crafted by expensive lawyers, they won't cost that much to produce.  I highly doubt apple spends more than $5 a cable.  If this is the case, why couldn't a competitor build a similar cable with similar build quality (non toxic, non child molesting, etc) for the same price, or a small amount more to account for volumes?  The next thing you're going to tell me is that I need a $500 HDMI cable to get the best possible picture on my TV.

 

Phil

post #56 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128 
I'm somewhat appalled that 3rd party products must be lightening only, and can't even incorporate Apple's legacy 30-pin dock connector. That's kind of whack.
So essentially if a 3rd party vendor wants in, they have to manufacture separate products for each Apple connector, meaning a consumer who buys a product for their iPhone 4, will have to repurchase the device when they upgrade to an iPhone 5.
Nuts!
I don't get your complaint.  It's easy to get upset about this, but it's also pretty easy to see the logic behind it.  It's neither "whack" nor "nuts" IMO.  

Clearly Apple doesn't want to support the old protocol or contribute to anything that will keep it alive.  This is obviously to their advantage and to the advantage of the new protocol.  Lightings adoption speed is based at least in part, on the length of time the old cables and protocols hang around.  Remember there are over ten years worth of old accessories out there.  Supporting 30 pin moving forward would be a bad idea.  

Hey Gazoobee, this was my complaint.

http://appleinsider.com/articles/12/12/21/apple-updates-mfi-guidelines-after-kickstarter-project-flap

Clearly Apple agreed 100% with me, and realized their policy was both "whack" and "nuts". According to you, it looks like Apple has decided to back a "bad idea".
post #57 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128 View Post

Clearly Apple agreed 100% with me, and realized their policy was both "whack" and "nuts". According to you, it looks like Apple has decided to back a "bad idea".

It doesn't look like Apple agreed with you if your claim is that Apple thought its previous policy was whack or nuts. Polices change. Sometimes they are proactively changed but more often than not they are reactively altered. That seems to go along with the nature of humanity (perhaps like in general). If you had stated, "I think this policy is shortsighted and should be revised (at least for a couple years until Lightening is more widely adopted) since they still sell devices with the 30-pin connector" then I could be on board with your comment, but your tone is too over the top for me to think that Apple agreed with you.

PS: They also didn't have to repurchase a device if the vendor had simply used some removable cable that could be interchanged, which is the only way I'd have interest in this sort of device, instead of one where the connector end is some Swiss Army of various connectors in use today.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #58 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

So .. you are exultant that you can get a cheap lightning cable because the manufacturer can use toxic chemicals or sub-standard materials to make them or use child labour etc.
 ?

I wouldn't think that's anything to brag about but to each his/her own.

1) You're making a lot of ASSumptions
2) Nearly everything that we use from tools, to utensils, to clothing, to children's toys, to household goods, to home insulation, etc. is made in China. Do you have some kind of "standard of care" that you go through before purchasing Chinese-made goods...

...of do you only make the exception for USB cables?

Do you understand how ridiculous you sound?
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