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iPhone 5 launch propels Apple to 53% of US smartphone sales - Page 2

post #41 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple v. Samsung View Post

When it was showed that Android shipped 73% of the phones everyone on this site said that market share is not important to apple. Now apple sold the most phones it is important?

"It is important" only to whoever is conducting the survey.

When Apple designs a phone... and sells a phone... and makes money from a phone... they are working for themselves. They want to make great products.

It doesn't really matter how they "rank" among everybody else.
post #42 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post


And fast forward to today... Apple's laptops start at $1000.
Apple finally realized that selling a few expensive things is a better business plan than selling many cheap crappy things.
Seriously... what does "moar market share!" get you other than being on top of a market share chart?

 

I don't think you really got the gist of what was being said.

 

[... and, besides, I don't think I'd hear Cook moan if he sold another 30 million phones]

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post #43 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason98 View Post

South Europe, Latin America, and Eastern Europe are all looking ugly. Not sure why Cook does not understand that cheap customers today locked into Apple ecosystem would be his lucrative customers in future. And almost everyone buying cheap WP and Android today is likely lost by Apple for very long time.
P.S. link to the full stats:
http://www.kantarworldpanel.com/dwl.php?sn=news_downloads&id=111

 

Yeah, all those people who used Windows Mobile 6, and all those loyal Palm Treo, Nokia, and Blackberry users in 2006. Totally locked in, and was likely lost by Apple for a very long time. lol.gif

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #44 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


Actually hubris and arrogance can be fixed.

 

Too bad jealousy and envy can't be fixed.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #45 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

I don't think you really got the gist of what was being said.

[... and, besides, I don't think I'd hear Cook moan if he sold another 30 million phones]

Oops... gotcha 1wink.gif
post #46 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

So you're comparing Android OS to a single HW vendor? Do you not see how that makes no sense?

 

Not to be pedantic, but that's not actually true. He's comparing everything running Android to everything running iOS. The fact that Apple is the only manufacturer using the OS could be interpreted as irrelevant.

post #47 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post


Oops... gotcha 1wink.gif

 

I can remember friends and family buying DOS/Windows machines in the early 90s and they would be phoning me all the time asking if I would come over to get their printers working, to get their programs loaded, to get their machines rebooted... the requests were endless and ongoing.

 

Truth was, I didn't really have that much knowledge where pc machines were concerned. They only thought I did because I was swapping out hard drives, adding ram, connecting printers, adding tape back-ups without any problems... BECAUSE I OWNED A MAC (well, three of them at that time).

 

For the every day, no nothing about computers, person, there seemed to be only one choice at the time... but the vast majority of those people were buying pc machines.

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post #48 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

We saw it with Mac/Windows in the 90s... you can't fix stupid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

But Android . . . winning . . . etc. 

?

Yup. Android is winning with these devices (German Groupon) being sold all over the place here in Germany.

Without even bothering to translate, just look at those steller specs. /s

BTW: last weekend I ran across someone with a similar device, and he stated, "this is soooo much better than the iPad and Apple devices for the price. Not to mention I can run install any program, and any content from any "source" for free. Paying for Apps, movies or music is just being dumb." The device needless to say was no comparison to an iPad, let alone a Nexus 7. Hideous piece of trash!

That's what it comes down to. I've read articles where similar devices are selling by the truckload in India, Asia, Africa, S.America for as little as $50.00. The vast majority of those purchasers will NEVER be potential Apple customers, App developer supporters or content purchasers....ever.

Last note: it's also ironic that one of the largest selling points is all of the free Apps... which is true... but also all of the content and developers efforts for paid apps and content as well. MS was able to get a major strangle-hold on the market in the 90's by "allowing" Windows to be hackable, that there wasn't any market for paid software outside of N. America. It was the reason for Windows in the first place: the largest closet of "free" software in the world.

I stated ironic, because Win8 and the new Store are not doing so well... and I don't ever expect them to be successful, unless all Apps and content on it are eventually free. Even then, outside of NA there will always be "alternative sources".
Edited by ThePixelDoc - 12/22/12 at 3:09am
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post #49 of 87

Does anyone have a theory to explain why IOS market share seems to be declining in Italy, Spain, Australia, Brasil and barely holding flat in some other countries listed in the figures ? Does it merely reflect the phased market launches in these countries or is there some more substantial issue ?

 

In Germany it seems to be marginal. 0.4% growth is probably zero within the margin of error of the data. It certainly is a long way from anything like domination in this market.

 

Just interested.

post #50 of 87
Quote:

Does anyone have a theory to explain why IOS market share seems to be declining in Italy, Spain, Australia, Brasil and barely holding flat in some other countries listed in the figures ? Does it merely reflect the phased market launches in these countries or is there some more substantial issue ?

 

In Germany it seems to be marginal. 0.4% growth is probably zero within the margin of error of the data. It certainly is a long way from anything like domination in this market.

 

Just interested.

 

Since you mentioned Germany just a quick look at the German Apple store site, gives you a wealth of information. 

For example: iPhone 5 starting at 679 euros. Let's throw in the 4S as well, for argument's sake, at 579 euros. That's pre-paid with no contract.

I'm pretty sure you can find Android powered phones, latest generation for much less than that.

Now head on to the T-Mobile site Deutschland and you find the iPhone 5 subsidized at 379, 229 or 129 euros. Only when you get to a very expensive plan like, 90 euros a month, do you get the handset at 1 euro.

 

Apple is still a premium item whose prices don't fluctuate much, as opposed to the Android world, where carriers give great deals, because last month's flagship Samsung phone is now replaced with this month's flagship LG phone and so on.

 

Sources: 

http://www.t-mobile.de/iphone/iphone-5/0,24374,27657-_,00.html

http://store.apple.com/de/browse/home/shop_iphone

post #51 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDBA View Post

 

Since you mentioned Germany just a quick look at the German Apple store site, gives you a wealth of information. 

For example: iPhone 5 starting at 679 euros. Let's throw in the 4S as well, for argument's sake, at 579 euros. That's pre-paid with no contract.

I'm pretty sure you can find Android powered phones, latest generation for much less than that.

Now head on to the T-Mobile site Deutschland and you find the iPhone 5 subsidized at 379, 229 or 129 euros. Only when you get to a very expensive plan like, 90 euros a month, do you get the handset at 1 euro.

 

Apple is still a premium item whose prices don't fluctuate much, as opposed to the Android world, where carriers give great deals, because last month's flagship Samsung phone is now replaced with this month's flagship LG phone and so on.

 

Sources: 

http://www.t-mobile.de/iphone/iphone-5/0,24374,27657-_,00.html

http://store.apple.com/de/browse/home/shop_iphone

As you might guess, I'm quite familiar with the German market. I think most people over here are intelligent enough to be able to do the arithmetic. In general the price of a "subsidized" mobile (they call them "handy's" in Germany, which is a much better name :-) ) is substantially higher than buying a non-subsidized phone and having the choice of provider and plan. T-mobile still carries the stigma of its past as a state monopoly for many people in Germany. Customer service is still not impressive (but T-mobile is not alone on that count).

 

But my question was directed to why the I5 doesn't seem to be taking off in Europe in anything like the way it does in the US. I can see that language issues may play a role. Is siri for example comparably good in french, german, spanish and italian as it is in the US? Are there limitations in the availability of native language translations of the drawcard Apps, or what is behind the less than impressive market share ?

 

In Germany at least, LTE is not a significant drawcard because the coverage is so patchy that it is not available in most locations. It will probably be well into 2014 before that changes much.

 

So maybe its just a simple fact that the "premium" qualities don't seem to justify the price for most potential buyers. I don't know. It would seem plausible. But whatever the reason, it doesn't seem that the I5 is making waves in europe at all. .... just barely managing to keep the market share stable in some countries, but declining in most, while android seems to be gaining market share at an accelerating pace. That's what the numbers in the original post seem to say.

 

Anyone have any good explanations/theories ??

post #52 of 87

Just for fun I did a quick check of the plans in Germany.

 

T-mobile with a subsidized cost of €1 for the 16 G I5 and the monthly rate of €99 works out at €107/month or €2568 for the contracted 24 months.

 

An equivalent allnet-flatrate sells for €39.99 / month or 959.76 over the 24 months, which is just over €1608 saving. So adding the cost of the 64 Gb I5 at €899 leaves you with something like €709 change in your pocket. You must be insane to think that the T-mobile subsidized packet is a good deal.

 

I suspect its probably similar in all subsidized markets.

 

There's no free lunch. The providers are not going to subsidize Apple's profits, so the user pays in every case.
 

post #53 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

And fast forward to today... Apple's laptops start at $1000.
Apple finally realized that selling a few expensive things is a better business plan than selling many cheap crappy things.
Seriously... what does "moar market share!" get you other than being on top of a market share chart?

Why would a consumer care about profits. Market share guarantees developer interest.

This hostility to market share is ...... strange.
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post #54 of 87
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post
Why would a consumer care about profits. Market share guarantees developer interest.

 

And yet with "half" the marketshare, iOS is the undisputed winner for developers.

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post #55 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Why would a consumer care about profits. Market share guarantees developer interest.
This hostility to market share is ...... strange.

Why would a customer care if a company's product is successful? Why would a customer care if the product they invested in will be supported in the future? Really?!

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post #56 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taniwha View Post

As you might guess, I'm quite familiar with the German market. I think most people over here are intelligent enough to be able to do the arithmetic. In general the price of a "subsidized" mobile (they call them "handy's" in Germany, which is a much better name :-) ) is substantially higher than buying a non-subsidized phone and having the choice of provider and plan. T-mobile still carries the stigma of its past as a state monopoly for many people in Germany. Customer service is still not impressive (but T-mobile is not alone on that count).

But my question was directed to why the I5 doesn't seem to be taking off in Europe in anything like the way it does in the US. I can see that language issues may play a role. Is siri for example comparably good in french, german, spanish and italian as it is in the US? Are there limitations in the availability of native language translations of the drawcard Apps, or what is behind the less than impressive market share ?

In Germany at least, LTE is not a significant drawcard because the coverage is so patchy that it is not available in most locations. It will probably be well into 2014 before that changes much.

So maybe its just a simple fact that the "premium" qualities don't seem to justify the price for most potential buyers. I don't know. It would seem plausible. But whatever the reason, it doesn't seem that the I5 is making waves in europe at all. .... just barely managing to keep the market share stable in some countries, but declining in most, while android seems to be gaining market share at an accelerating pace. That's what the numbers in the original post seem to say.

Anyone have any good explanations/theories ??

You've almost answered your own question. Siri is crap outside the US ( even in English speaking countries). But Siri is probably not the issue.

In the US Apple gets amazing subsidies and the US does not have a pre paid market ( a market which is not just confined to poor markets. I was pre paid in the UK prior to the iPhone) So all things being equal the iPhone wins. Big price differences - Android wins.
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post #57 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Why would a customer care if a company's product is successful? Why would a customer care if the product they invested in will be supported in the future? Really?!

Yeah. That's my point. The higher the market share the more likely all this is to happen particularly on a platform, and iOS is a platform.

What I don't get is apple fans who are hostile to increase in market share - via cheaper devices - why argue against that?
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post #58 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

And yet with "half" the marketshare, iOS is the undisputed winner for developers.

For now. You are not really arguing the point. Do you think that us iOS is at 1% devs will be around? If not then market share matters.

What's odd - to me - is the hostility to market share increases by sone iOS owners, providing profits are maintained ( and why wouldn't they be?) I suppose they feel less special.
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post #59 of 87
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post
For now.

 

For the last four years, yeah, as Android was born and blossomed into the Sumatran rotting corpse flower it is today. And yet iOS only gets more developers.

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post #60 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Yeah. That's my point. The higher the market share the more likely all this is to happen particularly on a platform, and iOS is a platform.
What I don't get is apple fans who are hostile to increase in market share - via cheaper devices - why argue against that?

Your point is flawed. Higher marketshare doesn't mean that a product will be better. If a company is continuing to lose money to obtain that market share then they will continue to cut even more corners to try to reduce their costs to obtain it. There is a reason why Apple is seen as the only PC manufacture who innovates. Dell, HP, Acer they, in fact, do innovate, but they innovate new ways to cut corners as they race to the bottom and in the process they have soiled their brands so much that Apple dominates all profitable portion of the PC market to such an extent that they can't compete. So, yes, so show me a company that knows how to create a profit on a product that people love and I'll show a company that knows how to add value to their products. There is a reason Apple, of all the CE companies, is able to create products that hold their value.

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post #61 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Your point is flawed. Higher marketshare doesn't mean that a product will be better. If a company is continuing to lose money to obtain that market share then they will continue to cut even more corners to try to reduce their costs to obtain it. There is a reason why Apple is seen as the only PC manufacture who innovates. Dell, HP, Acer they, in fact, do innovate, but they innovate new ways to cut corners as they race to the bottom and in the process they have soiled their brands so much that Apple dominates all profitable portion of the PC market to such an extent that they can't compete. So, yes, so show me a company that knows how to create a profit on a product that people love and I'll show a company that knows how to add value to their products. There is a reason Apple, of all the CE companies, is able to create products that hold their value.

 

I thought he was talking about the OSes, not the machines.

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post #62 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post


For now. You are not really arguing the point. Do you think that us iOS is at 1% devs will be around? If not then market share matters.
What's odd - to me - is the hostility to market share increases by sone iOS owners, providing profits are maintained ( and why wouldn't they be?) I suppose they feel less special.

 

I think if Android had remained cohesive and controlled, then it might be a different story, comparable to the Mac/PC era. On the other hand it might have died a quick death.

 

As it is, though, with Android being forked to death, developers are getting more and more loath to develop for Android.

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post #63 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Your point is flawed. Higher marketshare doesn't mean that a product will be better. If a company is continuing to lose money to obtain that market share then they will continue to cut even more corners to try to reduce their costs to obtain it. There is a reason why Apple is seen as the only PC manufacture who innovates. Dell, HP, Acer they, in fact, do innovate, but they innovate new ways to cut corners as they race to the bottom and in the process they have soiled their brands so much that Apple dominates all profitable portion of the PC market to such an extent that they can't compete. So, yes, so show me a company that knows how to create a profit on a product that people love and I'll show a company that knows how to add value to their products. There is a reason Apple, of all the CE companies, is able to create products that hold their value.

None of this is relevant to my point. You are talking about manufacturers profit not market share of a platform - like iOS , Windows, or Android.

As I said before Apple used to have the biggest profits in the PC world in 1992. A few years later they were broke with an aging OS. It took the purchase of Next, the integration of NEXT OS and most importantly the arrival of Jobs - effectively a reverse takeover which wont happen again. That's a one off.

The profits malarkey is a smoke screen.

iOS is a platform. Get them young or poor and you keep them old and rich. To get them young and poor a cheaper device is needed.

Apple knows this. If all they wanted was hardware profits they would forego the profits from services and software. That is reduce the 30% "Apple tax" or allow competitors to bypass In App Purchasing. They keep the cost of services high to subsidise a future cheap iPhone.

Word.
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post #64 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Your point is flawed. Higher marketshare doesn't mean that a product will be better. If a company is continuing to lose money to obtain that market share then they will continue to cut even more corners to try to reduce their costs to obtain it. There is a reason why Apple is seen as the only PC manufacture who innovates. Dell, HP, Acer they, in fact, do innovate, but they innovate new ways to cut corners as they race to the bottom and in the process they have soiled their brands so much that Apple dominates all profitable portion of the PC market to such an extent that they can't compete. So, yes, so show me a company that knows how to create a profit on a product that people love and I'll show a company that knows how to add value to their products. There is a reason Apple, of all the CE companies, is able to create products that hold their value.

None of this is relevant to my point. You are talking about manufacturers profit not market share of a platform - like iOS , Windows, or Android.

As I said before Apple used to have the biggest profits in the PC world in 1992. A few years later they were broke with an aging OS. It took the purchase of Next, the integration of NEXT OS and most importantly the arrival of Jobs - effectively a reverse takeover which wont happen again. That's a one off.

The profits malarkey is a smoke screen.

iOS is a platform. Get them young or poor and you keep them old and rich. To get them young and poor a cheaper device is needed.

Apple knows this. If all they wanted was hardware profits they would forego the profits from services and software. That is reduce the 30% "Apple tax" or allow competitors to bypass In App Purchasing. They keep the cost of services high to subsidise a future cheap iPhone.

Word.
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post #65 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Your point is flawed. Higher marketshare doesn't mean that a product will be better. If a company is continuing to lose money to obtain that market share then they will continue to cut even more corners to try to reduce their costs to obtain it. There is a reason why Apple is seen as the only PC manufacture who innovates. Dell, HP, Acer they, in fact, do innovate, but they innovate new ways to cut corners as they race to the bottom and in the process they have soiled their brands so much that Apple dominates all profitable portion of the PC market to such an extent that they can't compete. So, yes, so show me a company that knows how to create a profit on a product that people love and I'll show a company that knows how to add value to their products. There is a reason Apple, of all the CE companies, is able to create products that hold their value.

None of this is relevant to my point. You are talking about manufacturers profit not market share of a platform - like iOS , Windows, or Android.

As I said before Apple used to have the biggest profits in the PC world in 1992. A few years later they were broke with an aging OS. It took the purchase of Next, the integration of NEXT OS and most importantly the arrival of Jobs - effectively a reverse takeover which wont happen again. That's a one off.

The profits malarkey is a smoke screen.

iOS is a platform. Get them young or poor and you keep them old and rich. To get them young and poor a cheaper device is needed.

Apple knows this. If all they wanted was hardware profits they would forego the profits from services and software. That is reduce the 30% "Apple tax" or allow competitors to bypass In App Purchasing. They keep the cost of services high to subsidise a future cheap iPhone.
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post #66 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

I thought he was talking about the OSes, not the machines.

His comment didn't qualify any such allowances.

Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

None of this is relevant to my point. You are talking about manufacturers profit not market share of a platform - like iOS , Windows, or Android.
As I said before Apple used to have the biggest profits in the PC world in 1992. A few years later they were broke with an aging OS. It took the purchase of Next, the integration of NEXT OS and most importantly the arrival of Jobs - effectively a reverse takeover which wont happen again. That's a one off.
The profits malarkey is a smoke screen.
iOS is a platform. Get them young or poor and you keep them old and rich. To get them young and poor a cheaper device is needed.
Apple knows this. If all they wanted was hardware profits they would forego the profits from services and software. That is reduce the 30% "Apple tax" or allow competitors to bypass In App Purchasing. They keep the cost of services high to subsidise a future cheap iPhone.
Word.

1) It's all relevant to your point that market share is more important than a company actually turning a profit.

2) So now it's an all or nothing model? If your goal is to sell a HW product then charging anything to support services to sell more HW means your business model is flawed?

3) Now it's an Apple tax to charge 30% for App Store sales? I guess I'm a little late realizing that you're just trolling.

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post #67 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


His comment didn't qualify any such allowances.

 

"Why would a consumer care about profits. Market share guarantees developer interest." ~ asdasd

 

I suppose he could have been talking about the development of computers.  1bugeye.gif

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post #68 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

"Why would a consumer care about profits. Market share guarantees developer interest." ~ asdasd

I suppose he could have been talking about the development of computers.  1bugeye.gif

I guess it could be read as referring to only OS or SW but I'd expect someone who is specifically stating that market share v profit being vastly different between SW and HW to specifically state that otherwise I assume they are making a general point that traverses all areas of business.
Edited by SolipsismX - 12/22/12 at 12:42pm

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post #69 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

His comment didn't qualify any such allowances.
1) It's all relevant to your point that market share is more important than a company actually turning a profit.
2) So now it's an all or nothing model? If your goal is to sell a HW product then charging anything to support services to sell more HW means your business model is flawed?
3) Now it's an Apple tax to charge 30% for App Store sales? I guess I'm a little late realizing that you're just trolling.

3) The term "tax" is probably not as pejorative as you think. Nevertheless I reported your post as accusations of "trolling" is a form of well poisoning.

To return to the argument

1) Market share is far more important to this platform than Apples profit. Devs don't care about profit for Apple but themselves. Except for the trivial claim that were Apple to make a loss it would go out of business that is obviously the case.

2) Saying apples model is flawed is your own straw man. I didn't. If apple just wanted just a high margin hardware business case it could spur sales by reducing the Apple percentage, thus making apps cheaper or devs richer. For instance it could compete with the kindle fire by reducing the percentage on iBooks. That it is not doing that indicates it wants to see iOS as providing a long term service model. It's both hardware and software sales. Catch somebody with a cheap iPhone and it's profit for life.
Edited by asdasd - 12/22/12 at 2:42pm
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post #70 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Yeah. That's my point. The higher the market share the more likely all this is to happen particularly on a platform, and iOS is a platform.
What I don't get is apple fans who are hostile to increase in market share - via cheaper devices - why argue against that?

Complete this statement:

Apple needs more market share because of __________

I think we've already shown that Apple is a hugely successful company in no danger of going out of business. Their developers are happy. Their customers are happy.

And all this while not being the #1 in market share. (worldwide)

So what is it about market share that you think is so important?

OK.... you say Apple should make cheaper devices to gain more market share. Like I asked earlier... what would be the result?

Look at Android. It has a ton of market share credited directly to multiple manufacturers and inexpensive devices.

So... besides the title of "market share leader" what are the actual benefits to Android having so much market share?

And... what are the disadvantages to Apple having less market share?
post #71 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

Complete this statement:
Apple needs more market share because of __________
I think we've already shown that Apple is a hugely successful company in no danger of going out of business. Their developers are happy. Their customers are happy.
And all this while not being the #1 in market share. (worldwide)
So what is it about market share that you think is so important?
OK.... you say Apple should make cheaper devices to gain more market share. Like I asked earlier... what would be the result?
Look at Android. It has a ton of market share credited directly to multiple manufacturers and inexpensive devices.
So... besides the title of "market share leader" what are the actual benefits to Android having so much market share?
And... what are the disadvantages to Apple having less market share?

No, no, they need Android's marketshare so all their device "activations" can have a 1:1 ratio for web and app usage stats... oh, wait.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #72 of 87

here are the stats country by country: kantar smarphone sales 12 w.e. nov 25 2012

post #73 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by gogo2000 View Post

here are the stats country by country:

screen-shot-2012-12-21-at-11-33-26.png?w=753&h=619

With numbers like that... Apple will never recover.

When do we call the time of death? 1wink.gif

Oh wait... you CAN exist at #2
post #74 of 87
Not bad. Though Android held its own.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

With numbers like that... Apple will never recover.
When do we call the time of death? 1wink.gif
Oh wait... you CAN exist at #2

I recall that song... "We're number 2! We're number 2! Yaaaaay!" 1biggrin.gif
post #75 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post


Complete this statement:
Apple needs more market share because of __________
I think we've already shown that Apple is a hugely successful company in no danger of going out of business. Their developers are happy. Their customers are happy.
And all this while not being the #1 in market share. (worldwide)
So what is it about market share that you think is so important?
OK.... you say Apple should make cheaper devices to gain more market share. Like I asked earlier... what would be the result?
Look at Android. It has a ton of market share credited directly to multiple manufacturers and inexpensive devices.
So... besides the title of "market share leader" what are the actual benefits to Android having so much market share?
And... what are the disadvantages to Apple having less market share?

 

The historical record has shown - and this is the third time I have said this - that if you sacrifice market share for short term profits you lose both. I am a bit tired of making the same argument, and getting the same question. I have already answered this question and here I go again.

 

 

Apple would have gone out of business if it hadn't had the smarts to buy out NEXT. It had 12 percent market share in 1992 but huge profits - possibly the biggest in the business - and that fell to 3 percent in 1998. It also lost profit. Profit will eventually follow market share in platform. In fact dont take my word on this, tkae Job's himself, who criticised Apple in that era for being run by salesmen, obsessed with profit.

 

I feel a bit like its groundhog day in here because I have already answered this. If you want, you can explain why this time is different ( who knows it might be but you would have to have an argument on that) but I, and history, have already answered the reason why we shouldn't be relaxed on declining, or static, market share.

I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
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I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
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post #76 of 87

If I were to argue against my own point - to give you some hints - I would say that Apple is dominant in the richer markets. Or it is doing well in the enterprise, So thats not like 1992. 

 

However I think Apple will possibly never recover in Spain. I mean its pretty much non-existent in Spain. And I would be surprised if any devs in Spain were producing for iOS first. That would be madness. Apple may well, therefore, have permanently lost Spain.

 

So if Spain is Apple's future, then it will be in decline. However Spain probably is one of those countries where everything is pre=paid so a cheap phone might work.

 

I dont really get the counter arguments to cheaper phones. Even if margins fall overall profits can increase with higher volume. More importantly for a platform, if someone gets an iPhone and is locked in he is there for life. If he gets his iPhone at 20 then Apple is golden for decades, with all this stuff in the iCloud.

 

And thats the main reason for the iCloud, lockin. After all people are arguing here than Android users are more likely to defect. I agree. Thats true, for now. Until Google gets it's act together, and offers as much as the iTunes ecosystem.

 

Whats happening now is a scramble for life long customers. To win that Apple needs cheap phones, and sooner rather than later.

I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
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I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
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post #77 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

If I were to argue against my own point - to give you some hints - I would say that Apple is dominant in the richer markets. Or it is doing well in the enterprise, So thats not like 1992. 

 

However I think Apple will possibly never recover in Spain. I mean its pretty much non-existent in Spain. And I would be surprised if any devs in Spain were producing for iOS first. That would be madness. Apple may well, therefore, have permanently lost Spain.

 

So if Spain is Apple's future, then it will be in decline. However Spain probably is one of those countries where everything is pre=paid so a cheap phone might work.

 

I dont really get the counter arguments to cheaper phones. Even if margins fall overall profits can increase with higher volume. More importantly for a platform, if someone gets an iPhone and is locked in he is there for life. If he gets his iPhone at 20 then Apple is golden for decades, with all this stuff in the iCloud.

 

And thats the main reason for the iCloud, lockin. After all people are arguing here than Android users are more likely to defect. I agree. Thats true, for now. Until Google gets it's act together, and offers as much as the iTunes ecosystem.

 

Whats happening now is a scramble for life long customers. To win that Apple needs cheap phones, and sooner rather than later.


Spain is probably the best argument in your defense. If you were able to find out more stats on developer specifics it could prove hands down that falling market share will eventually lead to decreased development, regardless of the margins being made.

na na na na na...
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na na na na na...
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post #78 of 87
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

However I think Apple will possibly never recover in Spain. I mean its pretty much non-existent in Spain.

 

Just their phone operating system has twice the marketshare of Apple worldwide in 2003. PRETTY sure you can't say this and mean it.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #79 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

If I were to argue against my own point - to give you some hints - I would say that Apple is dominant in the richer markets. Or it is doing well in the enterprise, So thats not like 1992. 

However I think Apple will possibly never recover in Spain. I mean its pretty much non-existent in Spain. And I would be surprised if any devs in Spain were producing for iOS first. That would be madness. Apple may well, therefore, have permanently lost Spain.

So if Spain is Apple's future, then it will be in decline. However Spain probably is one of those countries where everything is pre=paid so a cheap phone might work.

I dont really get the counter arguments to cheaper phones. Even if margins fall overall profits can increase with higher volume. More importantly for a platform, if someone gets an iPhone and is locked in he is there for life. If he gets his iPhone at 20 then Apple is golden for decades, with all this stuff in the iCloud.

And thats the main reason for the iCloud, lockin. After all people are arguing here than Android users are more likely to defect. I agree. Thats true, for now. Until Google gets it's act together, and offers as much as the iTunes ecosystem.

Whats happening now is a scramble for life long customers. To win that Apple needs cheap phones, and sooner rather than later.

OK... with the exception of Spain... Apple is in 2nd place with 20%+ in the other countries.

The 3rd place is single digits.

If you're saying Apple is in trouble... what can you say about those other guys?

I'm just having a hard time believing Apple is in trouble for not selling enough phones compared to the other guys... but they're still making billions upon billions of dollars.

The difference between Apple in the 1990s and Apple today is roughly 120 billion dollars. Apple doesn't need a bailout anymore... nor are they in danger of going out of business. History is a bit different this time around.

You may say "Oh noes... the iPhone is losing to Android the same way the Mac lost to Windows..."

But really... is there any comparison?

Apple doesn't make "cheap" products. It's not in their DNA. Sure, they could move up a couple notches on the market share chart... but I'm saying that chart is a false idol.

Yes... Android has a ton of market share. And that is spread out over a dozen manufacturers and hundreds of phones. Yippee.

The fact that Apple, a single company, can have 20%-30% is actually remarkable. And they have insane profits... developers love the platform... and so do customers. What's the problem again?

If Android's success is the result of cheap phones... how are those manufacturers doing? Is it all roses?

I've showed you this chart before... projected worldwide smartphone sales by OEM in 2012:

Smartphones
28% Samsung
20% Apple
5% Nokia
5% HTC
5% RIM

Only 2 of the companies in the top 5 are selling Android devices... Samsung and HTC. That means the bulk of Android phones are coming from even smaller companies.

And those phones are likely cheap and are sold to people who don't have a lot of money. And who aren't gonna spend money on apps, music or a platform in general.

So... is that the market Apple should be chasing?

I don't think so!

"Android is winning" is your battle cry... but I don't believe in it.
post #80 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post


Complete this statement:
Apple needs more market share because of __________
I think we've already shown that Apple is a hugely successful company in no danger of going out of business. Their developers are happy. Their customers are happy.
And all this while not being the #1 in market share. (worldwide)

...because of the need to maintain or surpass critical mass.

 

It's a balancing act of quality and quantity.  In terms of quantity...in the case of the Android platform (and less so, in terms of a hardware company, like Samsung) that critical mass target is a moving target.  There comes a point where Apple knows it must compete with almost survival-like instinct to establish enough of a customer base or risk losing market share in one or many product lines.

 

But in general,  I agree that Apple does not NEED to increase market share at the moment, other than specific demographics/geographies,  like Spain.

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