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Rumor: Fifth-gen iPad to debut in March with iPad mini design cues - Page 4

post #121 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis Hannah View Post

iphablet I don't see them doing ever- I would think they have the phone whatever ideal size they see fit, and the majority of the population likes. The mini can fill the gap.
Outside of that, I think that release schedule would be perfect. I don't think they'll have the A7 by march- not even close- but a redesigned A6 would be enough for me to get one and replace my seldom used 2.


As for people like solip who are saying the mini won't have retina in 2013 (due to graphics, consumption, and size restraints)- while I agree that technically, it would be a feat- if anyone can do it, it's apple. The thing about every iteration of iDevices- with the exception of the iPad 4- has had some type of "gimmick" to help sell (I use that word lightly- most or all are extremely functional) them outside of just a spec bump.

iPhone 3G- 3G
iPhone 3GS- Video (and necessary speed at the time)
iPhone 4- Retina & FaceTime
iPhone 4S- Siri
iPhone 5- Screen (but really everything- the 5 is amazing)

iPad 2- Cameras
iPad 3- Retina
iPad 4- specs only

My point is- what does the Mini do? Get an A6 and that's it? Maybe a better camera? What is the selling point to get the new model- or that distinguishes it? iOS comes out with the iPhone- so it's not that. It almost has to be Retina, doesn't it?

2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
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2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

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post #122 of 189
Now i know how's fandroid feel about.
post #123 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

But I didn't say that, did I? No.

I said that smaller things are generally more expensive to produce than their larger counterparts. I said nothing about the iPad mini. In fact, I asked about it specifically, which you've also quoted (but failed to recognize). That may be a written failing on my part, and for that I apologize.

Indeed, as Solipsism has pointed out, it seems that even under your interpretation of what I've written, I'm correct, since the iPad mini uses cheaper parts and is not, in fact, a "smaller iPad 4", but rather a smaller iPad 2. I would imagine that it's prohibitively expensive to make a smaller iPad 4. Ah, and there's the word 'price' in another form.


Two years out to kick the price down. Seems like standard behavior for smaller devices.

I showed exactly what you said above. Readers can judge for themselves.

Your incessant pronouncements and then denial that you ever said them is getting tiresome.
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post #124 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

As for people like solip who are saying the mini won't have retina in 2013 (due to graphics, consumption, and size restraints)- while I agree that technically, it would be a feat- if anyone can do it, it's apple.

The 'Apple can do anything' mantra doesn't hold water. Apple was the one that brought the Retina iPad to use in 2012 and look what they had to do to bring it. It's much thicker and heavier. Now a device with a much smaller footprint but the same resolution means that using the same tech will need to be even thicker but will be slightly lighter than the current iPad. Do you think that's reasonable? I don't. I think weight is a key component to how Apple views the iPad mini. Note that all this so far has ignored price which require a more expensive display if you want to put a 2058x1536 panel in about half the size. So how is Apple is going to achieve this miracle of keeping the product lightweight and inexpensive? I hope you are right and i am wrong but so far not a single person has given a single detailed rebuttal as to how Apple could do it except to say "if anyone can do it, it's Apple."
Quote:
My point is- what does the Mini do? Get an A6 and that's it? Maybe a better camera? What is the selling point to get the new model- or that distinguishes it? iOS comes out with the iPhone- so it's not that. It almost has to be Retina, doesn't it?
And? There were 2 generations of the iPad before it was Retina and 3 years of the iPhone and Touch before they were Retina but for their cheapest tablet with the most expensive and complex display you expect to offer it for the 2nd gen simply because you don't like it not being Retina and can't think of additional upgrades? That's not a valid argument!

And it can't get an A6 if you want it to be Retina. It has to be at least an A6X, but that likely won't do because the A6X is shown to use too require too much power which is why I've been saying that it needs to be Rogue 6, which doesn't look to be available until the 2nd half of 2013. Perfect timing? Not if you note if you notice that the iPad mini is using the A5 right now (i.e.: a year behind) and that the iPod Touch is too and has yet to jump ahead 2 years just because.
Edited by SolipsismX - 12/25/12 at 8:19am

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #125 of 189
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post
I showed exactly what you said above. Readers can judge for themselves.

 

The speech of a man who has lost his battle. My stars, what's honestly difficult to understand about what I wrote? I'll rewrite it.

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post #126 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

The speech of a man who has lost his battle. My stars, what's honestly difficult to understand about what I wrote? I'll rewrite it.

Of course you'll rewrite it. That's what you do.

You make some pronouncement that we're supposed to accept like holy writ - such as "there's no need for an iPad Min'.

Then, as your pronouncement is obviously wrong, you spin and change your story over and over and over again.

Eventually, you deny making the original pronouncement and accuse everyone who brings it up of being liars.

You're very good at that.
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post #127 of 189
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post
Of course you'll rewrite it. That's what you do.

 

Or you could just read what I've written and ask for clarification where a misunderstanding might have taken place. But that doesn't fit the "I'm always right" bill that you yourself seem to have taken, I suppose. 

 

At no point did I say the things you've claimed, stet.

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post #128 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Of course you'll rewrite it. That's what you do.

Or you could just read what I've written and ask for clarification where a misunderstanding might have taken place. But that doesn't fit the "I'm always right" bill that you yourself seem to have taken, I suppose. 

At no point did I say the things you've claimed, stet.

I have to agree with jragosta. Everything you have written about the mini for the last year has turned out to be 100% wrong. There is no need for clarification of your last 5000 posts on the subject. Everyone knows your opinion on the matter and also the reality of the mini's success, and it is not just about the price as can be demonstrated by the scores of Apple experts on this forum who bought both the mini and full size iPads and have nothing but praises for the mini, myself included.

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post #129 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

iphablet I don't see them doing ever- I would think they have the phone whatever ideal size they see fit, and the majority of the population likes. The mini can fill the gap.
Outside of that, I think that release schedule would be perfect. I don't think they'll have the A7 by march- not even close- but a redesigned A6 would be enough for me to get one and replace my seldom used 2.
As for people like solip who are saying the mini won't have retina in 2013 (due to graphics, consumption, and size restraints)- while I agree that technically, it would be a feat- if anyone can do it, it's apple. The thing about every iteration of iDevices- with the exception of the iPad 4- has had some type of "gimmick" to help sell (I use that word lightly- most or all are extremely functional) them outside of just a spec bump.
iPhone 3G- 3G
iPhone 3GS- Video (and necessary speed at the time)
iPhone 4- Retina & FaceTime
iPhone 4S- Siri
iPhone 5- Screen (but really everything- the 5 is amazing)
iPad 2- Cameras
iPad 3- Retina
iPad 4- specs only
My point is- what does the Mini do? Get an A6 and that's it? Maybe a better camera? What is the selling point to get the new model- or that distinguishes it? iOS comes out with the iPhone- so it's not that. It almost has to be Retina, doesn't it?

I know iPhablet is not a apple type device yet this is just a device as with like the iPhone nano is to fill in the questions of but what if, I hope neither iPhone nano or iPhablet arrive.

But as you pointed out it this brings me to ok a improved screen but what is in the iPhone 5 that previous iPhones don't have, processor change does not count nor cellular upgrade screen change connector change (I guess if allows new format like if video added but none like this till date.) camera upgrade as 3G phone did not show something like this either but I guess IOS was to fresh. The original iPhone did have this (touch screen). 3GS as said video recording. iPhone 4 actually is the led. 4S as said. Now iPad is off but if you know is there anything on iPad 3G. Of course not the 4g(because it is 3.5 rounded up.).
post #130 of 189
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
Everything you have written about the mini for the last year has turned out to be 100% wrong. There is no need for clarification of your last 5000 posts on the subject.

 

Problem is that's not what we're talking about, so it's irrelevant.

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post #131 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Everything you have written about the mini for the last year has turned out to be 100% wrong. There is no need for clarification of your last 5000 posts on the subject.

Problem is that's not what we're talking about, so it's irrelevant.

Some have suggested that you have no idea what you are talking about.

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post #132 of 189
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
Some have suggested that you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

Some are wrong, is all.

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The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #133 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexN View Post

The iPad "4" is perfect - for reading AI forums 1smile.gif.

Depends on your definition of perfect. In my opinion iPad is a collection of compromises. I do like my iPad mini and rarely use my iPad 3 but it is far from perfect. People who try to force the iPad into activities that it was never designed for like the "professional" wedding photographer guy, just make me laugh. iPad might be ok as a presentation device but I find it difficult to imagine importing huge RAW files for editing unless you are some sort of masochist. IPad is convenient only because it is lightweight and portable not because it excels at computing tasks.

Note that I was quite specific in stating what I thought that it was perfect for, i.e., reading this forum. I completely agree that there are tasks for which the iPad would be less than competent - for example, creating/editing CAD files (with Rhino3D specifically) in mind. Unless, of course, some bright spark comes up with a new way of making accurate and repeatable inputs without resorting to a stylus.

Having said that, the actual size of the 9.7 " iPad (and forget about the 7.8 " Mini) tends to militate against that sort of use in any case.
post #134 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexN View Post


Note that I was quite specific in stating what I thought that it was perfect for, i.e., reading this forum. I completely agree that there are tasks for which the iPad would be less than competent - for example, creating/editing CAD files (with Rhino3D specifically) in mind. Unless, of course, some bright spark comes up with a new way of making accurate and repeatable inputs without resorting to a stylus.

Having said that, the actual size of the 9.7 " iPad (and forget about the 7.8 " Mini) tends to militate against that sort of use in any case.

On further thought, my comments above regarding CAD might just boil down to small screen size - input to Rhino can be by direct keyboard entry, where one can be as precise as one likes (slightly red face).
post #135 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Some have suggested that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Some are wrong, is all.

I suppose everyone is entitled to their opinion however when opinions are stated with arrogant authority from your moderator perch as many of your remarks are, it could be characterized as unduly oppressive which is why I call you out on it occasionally. Please keep in mind that you occupy a priveliged position in that regular users cannot add you to their ignore list. In my opinion you should post in a much less controversial manner if for no other reason but to set a standard of rational and reasonable conduct becoming a moderator and perhaps trying restrain your rabid zealotry and condescending mannerisms.

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post #136 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexN View Post


On further thought, my comments above regarding CAD might just boil down to small screen size - input to Rhino can be by direct keyboard entry, where one can be as precise as one likes (slightly red face).

Kudos for attempting to use an iPad for CAD although personally I feel that regardless of the fact that CAD apps exist for iPad the finger as a pointing input method is severely compromised when attempting activities traditionally requiring pixel perfect accuracy.

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post #137 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Some are wrong, is all.
Ya some are wrong. The same some that suggest you have an idea what you're talking about.

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2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

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post #138 of 189
I would bet money that this report is right. It's the most logical evolution for both product lines!

My curiosity now is where the iPhone/iPod lines will evolve to. After the iPhone 6, there's really no clear evolutionary path. I could guess that eventually some of Apple's patents will show up in the design, such as 3D and solar cells hidden and integrated within the pixels of the display, but those could be years off due to the enormous complexities involved in manufacturing process for those technologies.

We could see a quad-core A6/A7 processor in the next iPhone generation, but that could come as early as the iPhone 5S. The 20-something nanometer processors that will not use Samsung as the manufacture is at least a year or two away. That might get introduced with the iPhone 6. The iPhone 5S's camera will likely get a boost in megapixels and other tweaks.

Besides taking a gigantic leap forward in processing technology and power, I am completely clueless as to what other major new features and improvements the iPhone 6 will have. As I said, I would live to see those patents Apple has been hoarding finally make it into the design, but I can't expect that to happen so soon. In absence of those patents, I am at a lose as to what else (besides the CPU and camera improvements) it's going to have! Anyone want to take a shot at guessing?
post #139 of 189
I would bet money that this report is right. It's the most logical evolution for both product lines!

My curiosity now is where the iPhone/iPod lines will evolve to. After the iPhone 6, there's really no clear evolutionary path. I could guess that eventually some of Apple's patents will show up in the design, such as 3D and solar cells hidden and integrated within the pixels of the display, but those could be years off due to the enormous complexities involved in manufacturing process for those technologies.

We could see a quad-core A6/A7 processor in the next iPhone generation, but that could come as early as the iPhone 5S. The 20-something nanometer processors that will not use Samsung as the manufacture is at least a year or two away. That might get introduced with the iPhone 6. The iPhone 5S's camera will likely get a boost in megapixels and other tweaks.

Besides taking a gigantic leap forward in processing technology and power, I am completely clueless as to what other major new features and improvements the iPhone 6 will have. As I said, I would live to see those patents Apple has been hoarding finally make it into the design, but I can't expect that to happen so soon. In absence of those patents, I am at a lose as to what else (besides the CPU and camera improvements) it's going to have! Anyone want to venture a guess?
post #140 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Or you could just read what I've written and ask for clarification where a misunderstanding might have taken place. But that doesn't fit the "I'm always right" bill that you yourself seem to have taken, I suppose. 

At no point did I say the things you've claimed, stet.

I read what you wrote and it was quite clear. I cited the exact wording above.

What isn't clear is why you feel that you can constantly deny all the things that you said earlier.
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post #141 of 189
Apple's aggressiveness may abandon customers unless they continue to support their operating systems for twice as long.
post #142 of 189
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post
Apple's aggressiveness may abandon customers unless they continue to support their operating systems for twice as long.

 

Why? Three years can now mean six generations instead of three.

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The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #143 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmythe00 View Post

Oh. And while I'm on a wsh list, add themes to ios!

 

Yeah, themes, that's what iOS needs. Good god, how have we lived this long without themes? I can't get anything done without themes.

post #144 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

Apple's aggressiveness may abandon customers unless they continue to support their operating systems for twice as long.

 

Or for the same amount of time, depending on how you measure it.

post #145 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Well, yeah. And I see twice a year for tablets, too. But not yet. ARM isn't moving fast enough.

 

CPU architecture, while being an important consideration, is not the only thing that can be improved.  Processor speed, RAM, Flash, GPU, displays, etc can as well.  At the expense of margin, Apple can improve to a twice a year cycle.  Just as with Macs a mid year spec bump is more than possible given that Apple, unlike their competitors, do not drop prices as component prices decrease.

 

The question is whether that expense will be large and if Apple is actually willing to pay it.

 

/shrug I would not be surprised either way.  There are many strategic reasons to argue both for and against such a move.  Whatever Apple does there will be equal numbers of folks here claiming their brilliance or stupidity either way.

post #146 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


The 'Apple can do anything' mantra doesn't hold water. Apple was the one that brought the Retina iPad to use in 2012 and look what they had to do to bring it. It's much thicker and heavier. Now a device with a much smaller footprint but the same resolution means that using the same tech will need to be even thicker but will be slightly lighter than the current iPad. Do you think that's reasonable? I don't. I think weight is a key component to how Apple views the iPad mini. Note that all this so far has ignored price which require a more expensive display if you want to put a 2058x1536 panel in about half the size. So how is Apple is going to achieve this miracle of keeping the product lightweight and inexpensive? I hope you are right and i am wrong but so far not a single person has given a single detailed rebuttal as to how Apple could do it except to say "if anyone can do it, it's Apple."
And? There were 2 generations of the iPad before it was Retina and 3 years of the iPhone and Touch before they were Retina but for their cheapest tablet with the most expensive and complex display you expect to offer it for the 2nd gen simply because you don't like it not being Retina and can't think of additional upgrades? That's not a valid argument!
And it can't get an A6 if you want it to be Retina. It has to be at least an A6X, but that likely won't do because the A6X is shown to use too require too much power which is why I've been saying that it needs to be Rogue 6, which doesn't look to be available until the 2nd half of 2013. Perfect timing? Not if you note if you notice that the iPad mini is using the A5 right now (i.e.: a year behind) and that the iPod Touch is too and has yet to jump ahead 2 years just because.

 

Given that the iPad 3 was a compromise fixed within normal yearly product cycle there's no real reason to believe that the iPac Mini 2 could not also address some shortcomings with the current device.  

 

A 32nm A5X is certainly within the realm of possibility by spring.

A more efficient display panel is certainly within the real of possibility by spring

 

Given both then an iPad Mini retina is also within the realm of possibility by spring/summer.  They launched the iPad Mini with the technology shippable this fall in time for XMas 2012 to take any wind from the sails (or sales) of the Nexus and Fire.  Not the technology shippable 6 months later.

post #147 of 189
Originally Posted by nht View Post
CPU architecture, while being an important consideration, is not the only thing that can be improved.  Processor speed, RAM, Flash, GPU, displays, etc can as well. 

 

That makes buying a new device even less desirable. An update without a CPU change isn't much of one.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #148 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

That makes buying a new device even less desirable. An update without a CPU change isn't much of one.

Yeah. Just like no one would ever buy a smaller iPad.


There are LOTS of things that could be improved that would justify a half-year refresh. A few of them were pointed out in the post you were responding to.
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post #149 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

That makes buying a new device even less desirable. An update without a CPU change isn't much of one.

Only if you are an arrogant ass that buys product once a year right after it launches and has to update every time something new comes out.

For everyone else a mid year spec bump is a nice improvement for when they choose to buy a new device for themselves or as a gift for others.

If Apple chooses to start doing this great. If not, no big deal given a fall release cycle to cover XMas.
post #150 of 189
Originally Posted by nht View Post
Only if you are an arrogant ass that buys product once a year right after it launches and has to update every time something new comes out.

 

There's a fairly large "update every time and sell the old model" crowd. Pretty certain that doesn't make them arrogant, of all things.

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post #151 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

There's a fairly large "update every time and sell the old model" crowd. Pretty certain that doesn't make them arrogant, of all things.

 

They are if they assert that a mid-year update that helps consumers who don't use their model is "less desirable" because it does not help them.  But if you believe the term "selfish" to be more accurate than "arrogant" that works for me but it's probably more than a bit of both.

post #152 of 189
Originally Posted by nht View Post
They are if they assert that a mid-year update that helps consumers who don't use their model is "less desirable" because it does not help them.

 

To be clear, 'model' in this sentence refers to the method of purchasing rather than a physical product model, right? If so, my reply is the same: quicker turnover of product drastically reduces its value at all points in its lifespan. One month after launch, you won't be able to sell a 6-month iPad for anywhere near what you could a 1-year model. You've seen the value of Android phones that aren't even a year old (next to nothing). That's where this is headed if the updates aren't the best they can possibly be every time.

 

If not, and either way, my reply is that I don't at all use this schema myself, so your poorly-veiled insults need to be directed elsewhere.

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post #153 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterAlt View Post

Besides taking a gigantic leap forward in processing technology and power, I am completely clueless as to what other major new features and improvements the iPhone 6 will have. As I said, I would live to see those patents Apple has been hoarding finally make it into the design, but I can't expect that to happen so soon. In absence of those patents, I am at a lose as to what else (besides the CPU and camera improvements) it's going to have! Anyone want to venture a guess?

Bigger screen

 

/s

Shut up and go away, you useless, pathetic FUDmonger - Tallest Skil
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post #154 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

This is backwards. The iPod mini cost a lot more compared to the iPod [Classic] and yet it was the best selling iPod. $249 v $299 wasn't going to make a difference, especially when considering the $249 price point only yielded you 40% of the capacity of the larger model. I certainly had no interest in the iPod until the Mini came along and it had everything to do with size.
Now the iPad mini, as attractive as it is, currently does not appeal to me compared to my iPad (3), but at about half the size of it's brother I can see how it's very appealing. I know plenty of people that will be getting the iPad mini when they replace their iPad and many that are now interested in the iPad because it's smaller. Price is the reason for someone to save $70 over the iPad 2.

I think the lighter weight also helps as part of the total package. The big iPad isn't necessarily heavy, but it seems so in comparison. People do care about price, but those people generally aren't Apple customers, I don't see the price difference being enough on its own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Well, yeah. And I see twice a year for tablets, too. But not yet. ARM isn't moving fast enough.

The iPad will replace the MacBook. The iMac will turn into a big, immobile iPad. Tablets will definitely be updated faster, the question is when that will actually make sense to happen.

I don't see development happening faster, hardware improvements given don't seem to justify an accelerated release schedule. If ARM isn't moving fast enough now, I don't see why the future will bring about faster ARM developments. The software development doesn't seem to be accelerating. I really don't see what's in it for Apple to double the number of updates. If we're not happy with the pace of improvements now, releasing half the improvements twice as often isn't really changing the pace.
post #155 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

Apple was TOO predicable there for a while. This allowed the competition to work up a year long release cycle to drain off Apple sales for 60 to 90 days before the next expected Apple tablet or phone release. Now Apple is mixing it up more and becoming harder for competitors to build an ad release campaign around an expected date. Apple may go to a twice a year release of various products, or they may go to an unpredictable release schedule that will be more frequent than once a year, but not twice either. 

I don't think we're in Kansas any more...?

http://www.thenewstribe.com/2012/12/24/analyst-predicts-samsung-galaxy-s4-apple-ipad-mini-release/

The Galaxy S4 has most likely been moved up as well in an effort to have longer before the iPhone 7gen or 5S etc.
post #156 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

The 'Apple can do anything' mantra doesn't hold water. Apple was the one that brought the Retina iPad to use in 2012 and look what they had to do to bring it. It's much thicker and heavier. Now a device with a much smaller footprint but the same resolution means that using the same tech will need to be even thicker but will be slightly lighter than the current iPad. Do you think that's reasonable? I don't. I think weight is a key component to how Apple views the iPad mini. Note that all this so far has ignored price which require a more expensive display if you want to put a 2058x1536 panel in about half the size. So how is Apple is going to achieve this miracle of keeping the product lightweight and inexpensive? I hope you are right and i am wrong but so far not a single person has given a single detailed rebuttal as to how Apple could do it except to say "if anyone can do it, it's Apple."
And? There were 2 generations of the iPad before it was Retina and 3 years of the iPhone and Touch before they were Retina but for their cheapest tablet with the most expensive and complex display you expect to offer it for the 2nd gen simply because you don't like it not being Retina and can't think of additional upgrades? That's not a valid argument!
And it can't get an A6 if you want it to be Retina. It has to be at least an A6X, but that likely won't do because the A6X is shown to use too require too much power which is why I've been saying that it needs to be Rogue 6, which doesn't look to be available until the 2nd half of 2013. Perfect timing? Not if you note if you notice that the iPad mini is using the A5 right now (i.e.: a year behind) and that the iPod Touch is too and has yet to jump ahead 2 years just because.

How can the Nook HD weigh only 7 grams more than the mini, have a 243 ppi screen that is beautiful and battery still last 9.5 hours to the minis 10 hrs but Apple can't pull that off in the next 9 months?

The mini is extremely nice, came very close to buying one for my daughter for Xmas and even through the display is better than 3GS it still is the weak link. Apple brought retina to market so that has to be priority even if it is the end of next year.

I have thought that since 4th gen iPad that 5th gen would be out in March. 4th gen was mainly about lightning connector but the processor bump and camera were added to make it worthwhile. Still the iPad design will be three years old in March. That was the time we saw the redesign of the iPhone. The new iPad needs to be lighter through thinner glass and slimming of battery somehow (not sure but that is for apple to figure out).

When you are in the apple store and hold a mini or 5 the first thing people notice when they hold it is how light it is. Then the opposite when you hold the iPad. It looks bulky and feels heavy in comparison.

March also keeps the iPad in March and the new iPhone 6 months later which could possibly include the mini at that time. March should be all about the new iPad only. If not we all wait 9 months for the next apple upgrade cycle?
post #157 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


I think the lighter weight also helps as part of the total package. The big iPad isn't necessarily heavy, but it seems so in comparison. People do care about price, but those people generally aren't Apple customers, I don't see the price difference being enough on its own.

 

I think a lot of people are choosing the iPad mini over the iPad solely on the basis of price. They want an iPad, but they just don't want to spend as much as the full size costs (even the $399 iPad 2), so the lower price of the mini gives them the psychological leeway to spend the money without feeling guilty about it.

post #158 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobiwan View Post

How can the Nook HD weigh only 7 grams more than the mini, have a 243 ppi screen that is beautiful and battery still last 9.5 hours to the minis 10 hrs but Apple can't pull that off in the next 9 months?
The mini is extremely nice, came very close to buying one for my daughter for Xmas and even through the display is better than 3GS it still is the weak link. Apple brought retina to market so that has to be priority even if it is the end of next year.
I have thought that since 4th gen iPad that 5th gen would be out in March. 4th gen was mainly about lightning connector but the processor bump and camera were added to make it worthwhile. Still the iPad design will be three years old in March. That was the time we saw the redesign of the iPhone. The new iPad needs to be lighter through thinner glass and slimming of battery somehow (not sure but that is for apple to figure out).
When you are in the apple store and hold a mini or 5 the first thing people notice when they hold it is how light it is. Then the opposite when you hold the iPad. It looks bulky and feels heavy in comparison.
March also keeps the iPad in March and the new iPhone 6 months later which could possibly include the mini at that time. March should be all about the new iPad only. If not we all wait 9 months for the next apple upgrade cycle?

WHy are you only measuring the PPI? The resolution of the Nook HD isn't that much more than the iPad mini. The Nook HD PPI is so much higher because the display is considerably smaller, and yet the device doesn't last as long and is still heavier than the iPad mini. If you adjust for the volume differences that Nook HD is considerably heavier.

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post #159 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

WHy are you only measuring the PPI? The resolution of the Nook HD isn't that much more than the iPad mini. The Nook HD PPI is so much higher because the display is considerably smaller, and yet the device doesn't last as long and is still heavier than the iPad mini. If you adjust for the volume differences that Nook HD is considerably heavier.

 

Why have you become a zealot when a few years ago you were a much more level headed fan?

 

The reason the comparison is made is because these are current devices with higher PPI and Apple has another 6-9 months to get the Retina.  The panel itself is a non-issue given that the iPhone 5 has thinner panel technology that is lighter as well.  Or they can use the iPhone 4/4S panel.

 

GPU is a non-issue even if Rogue isn't available because the iPhone 5 about as fast as the iPad 3 was.  It'll work about as well as the iPad 3 did using a little bit more power than the iPhone 5 does...they'll probably up the clock speeds a little...but the benchmarks are very close when you look at the performance for the same resolution (the offscreen 1080p tests).  AND the SGX554 (iPad 4) is around twice as fast as the SGX543.  Indicating that a SGX554MP2 is ALSO likely sufficient to drive an iPad Mini at SGX543MP4 speeds with lower power requirements than the iPad 3 or 4.

 

 

 
Unless you have benchmarks that indicates that the SGX543MP3 or SGX554MP2 is insufficient to drive a retina iPad then your assertion that the regular A6 is insufficient for the job has no supporting evidence.  That it is not used in today's iPad Mini is more likely due to a combination of cost and availability of the A6 which are rightly prioritized for the iPhone 5.
 
Will it be as teh snappy as the iPad 4/5?  No...but it's still also the most inexpensive model and will be on par with the iPad 3 experience.
 

That leaves just the backlight which is not insurmountable given the device IS smaller than the regular iPad and there's no hard evidence yet that a 2nd backlight is required for an iPad Mini retina to achieve the brightness and evenness they desire.

post #160 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

Why have you become a zealot when a few years ago you were a much more level headed fan?

If you say so, but that doesn't address any of the zealoty things you are implying I've stated.
Quote:
The reason the comparison is made is because these are current devices with higher PPI and Apple has another 6-9 months to get the Retina.  The panel itself is a non-issue given that the iPhone 5 has thinner panel technology that is lighter as well.  Or they can use the iPhone 4/4S panel.

I have no idea what you mean by this. The displays in the iPhone 4/4S and 5 are all the same PPI.
Quote:
GPU is a non-issue even if Rogue isn't available because the iPhone 5 about as fast as the iPad 3 was.

Again, no idea what your point is. What does the GPU being fine for the iPhone 5 have to do with the iPad 3 or a Retina iPad mini? Are you under the assumption that PPI determines how powerful the GPU needs to be? Are you suggesting that the iPhone 5 needs a more powerful GPU than the iPad mini because the PPI is double? No, it's about the total number of pixels that need to be pushed.

480x360 is less than 1136x640 is less than 1024x768 is less than 2048x1536. You can't put a 2048x1536 display in the iPad mini then claim it will perform as well as the iPhone 5 simply because they now have the same PPI.
Quote:
t'll work about as well as the iPad 3 did using a little bit more power than the iPhone 5 does...they'll probably up the clock speeds a little...but the benchmarks are very close when you look at the performance for the same resolution (the offscreen 1080p tests).  AND the SGX554 (iPad 4) is around twice as fast as the SGX543.  Indicating that a SGX554MP2 is ALSO likely sufficient to drive an iPad Mini at SGX543MP4 speeds with lower power requirements than the iPad 3 or 4.

Again, this isn't accurate. The iPad 3/4 requires a lot more power than the iPhone to function. It's still the only the iPad with a quad-core CPU and the A#X chip. YOU CAN'T nearly 4.5x as many pixels and not expect this require a lot more GPU power, hence why Rogue 6 (or some other advanced GPU) will need to be hear before we can possibly get the GPU power usage to a point that makes it feasible for the iPad mini with a Retina (2048x1536) dispaly.
Quote:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6426/ipad-4-gpu-performance-analyzed-powervr-sgx-554mp4-under-the-hood
 
Unless you have benchmarks that indicates that the SGX543MP3 or SGX554MP2 is insufficient to drive a retina iPad then your assertion that the regular A6 is insufficient for the job has no supporting evidence.  That it is not used in today's iPad Mini is more likely due to a combination of cost and availability of the A6 which are rightly prioritized for the iPhone 5.

See AnandTech for the benchmarks. See how that 42W battery use power to drive that display. See how the iPad 3 was considerably thicker and heavier than the iPad 2 something Apple typically doesn't do. 4x as many pixels requires a lot more power for a comparable performance.
Quote:
Will it be as teh snappy as the iPad 4/5?  No...but it's still also the most inexpensive model and will be on par with the iPad 3 experience.

Miniaturizing the 2048x1536 display from only being 262 PPI to 326 PPI will make it cheaper? Possibly, but only comparing to the original iPad Retina display. Any advancements that lead to cost savings will still keep the lower PPI iPad display as being less inexpensive for a given resolution.
Quote:
That leaves just the backlight which is not insurmountable given the device IS smaller than the regular iPad and there's no hard evidence yet that a 2nd backlight is required for an iPad Mini retina to achieve the brightness and evenness they desire.

IGZO could resolve that issue. You should note that a smaller display uses less power than a larger display if you assume all other aspects are the same, but you haven't considered that a 326 PPI display is denser than a 262 PPI display which may mean a brighter backlight to achieve the same total brightness. Overall I'd say this is nomial compared to the reduction in display area, but you need to consider every aspect.


Bottom line: Retina in the iPad mini will need the exact amount of power for the GPU as Retina on the iPad for a given performance using the same tech. This is science. You can't around it by interchanging the word Retina when it suits you. We're talking about 2048x1536 displays on each.
Edited by SolipsismX - 12/29/12 at 10:26am

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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