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Rumor: Apple's next iPhones to debut this summer in more sizes, colors - Page 4

post #121 of 154
Originally Posted by v5v View Post
Go into the kitchen and grab a plate. Now hold it up to your ear.

 

Had to hold it by the little foot circle, since its diameter is 10" and my hand's span is only 9.5". Fell to the floor; shattered. Guess you were wrong. Thanks for offering such an easy way to prove it.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #122 of 154
Do you think the upcoming PowerVR 6 will be implanted in the iPhone 6 ?


PowerVR Series 6 mobile GPUs are almost here, we go eyes-on with a test chip (video)

Quote:
Imagination Technologies is on a high right now. Throughout 2012, the company's PowerVR graphics processors continued to monopolize the iPhone and iPad as well as appearing in (late 2011) Android flagships, the PlayStation Vita and even the first Clover Trail-powered Windows 8 tablets. But you know what? That's old news, because all those devices run current-gen PowerVR Series 5 silicon. Most new top-end devices in 2013 and 2014 will either contain the latest Mali GPUs from rival ARM, or they'll pack PowerVR Series 6, aka Rogue. This latter chip is currently being developed by at least eight different smartphone and tablet manufacturers and is expected to make a good bit of noise at CES next week.
But who's going to wait that long if they don't absolutely have to? To get a fuller understanding of what awaits us in the coming weeks and months, we scoped out a Rogue test chip at Imagination's sparkly new HQ just outside of London, UK. The test silicon doesn't represent the true power of Series 6 because it's running on an FPGA board that severely limits its bandwidth, but it's still able to show off one crucial advantage: namely the ability to run OpenGL ES 3.0 games and apps. This API is all about improving mobile graphics through making smarter use of GPU compute, without annoying the battery, and the three exclusive demos after the break show just how it pulls that off.

http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/03/powervr-series-6-test-chip/


Video:
http://www.viddler.com/v/cd62cde
post #123 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Had to hold it by the little foot circle, since its diameter is 10" and my hand's span is only 9.5". Fell to the floor; shattered. Guess you were wrong. Thanks for offering such an easy way to prove it.

 

 

700

post #124 of 154
Originally Posted by v5v View Post
image

 

My response was in jest, but you really think that people actually hold their phones like that, don't you? Or are comfortable holding something in that manner by their heads…

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #125 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

It is user friendly because it is far easier on the eyes for me at least. My friend just got a Droid DNA by HTC which has a 5" screen but is very light and thin and easily fit in my pocket. The display is 1080P with a 1920 x 1080 resolution. It really is a gorgeous display and unlike the bulkier phones from the past easily passes the pocketability test. I have to believe that I am far from alone in wanting to stick with an iPhone and iOS but also wanting a big display.  

 


Bingo.  You nailed it.   When I moved from the 3GS over to the original Samsung Galaxy 3 years ago, I knew I could never go back to a 3.5" screen.  Now that I have a 4.65" screen (GN), I can't see going back to a 4".  I still play around with the 4S though as I have a number of friends who have it and the build quality is quite nice but it is a bit heavy for me.

 

As for the "pocketability", I have wear Lucky Jeans fairly often and I can easily fit my Nexus 7 in my front pocket when I need to move around the house.  So yeah, my 4.65" phone easily fits into my front pocket.  My next phone will probably be int he 5" to 5.5" spot and while I recognize that not everyone wants a phone of that size, there are many who do.  It is quite feasible to use once handed as well with the advent of Swype and other similar keyboards out there.  Just thought I would share my views on the topic.

post #126 of 154

The design logic behind the 3.5 and 4 inch screen has always been that it could easily be used with only one hand. I think a 4 inch screen is already pushing the limits, if it changes that would really represent the end of Steve's Apple.  Go away you 5 inch samsung fans.

post #127 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by dnd0ps View Post

The design logic behind the 3.5 and 4 inch screen has always been that it could easily be used with only one hand.

 

But that's like designing a hockey stick so it can be used with just one hand. First, while you do sometimes hold it in one hand, most of the time you're better off using two. Second, making it good for one hand reduces it's overall usability so it's self-defeating. Sure, there are some who prefer to keep one hand free for... whatever it is they do with that hand, but most people are perfectly happy to use two hands on the device. Most people I know with iPhones use two hands anyway.

post #128 of 154
Originally Posted by v5v View Post
But that's like designing a hockey stick so it can be used with just one hand.

 

It's nothing like that.

 

Since the very first device, there hadn't been a cell phone that couldn't be used with only one hand. Until the Android nonsense started, that is.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #129 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

First, while you do sometimes hold it in one hand, most of the time you're better off using two.

No.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #130 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by dnd0ps View Post

The design logic behind the 3.5 and 4 inch screen has always been that it could easily be used with only one hand. I think a 4 inch screen is already pushing the limits, if it changes that would really represent the end of Steve's Apple.  Go away you 5 inch samsung fans.

 

I'm a 5 inch iPhone fan.  I think it would sell like hotcakes, just as the iPad Mini is doing.   Both are easy market predictions.

 

However, you're right:   iOS is stuck because it was not designed to be usable with one hand on a larger screen.  This is because the BACK button for almost every app is at the upper left, which is too far from the RIGHT thumb that most people use.

 

(Apple's recent "Common Sense" ad about one-handed usage used a LEFT hand to show the thumb arc, because a RIGHT thumb wouldn't make it far enough to hit a upper left Back button without stretching.   It was a very clever piece of misdirection, that most viewers did not notice. )

 

 

1000

 

Anyway, the upshot is, iOS will need to either move the Back button or add a physical one, in order for a larger screen to stay pretty usable with one hand.

 

This is one of the things that drive me crazy about using the iPad while laying down... having to shift everything to reach way up to click Back.

post #131 of 154
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

(Apple's recent "Common Sense" ad about one-handed usage used a LEFT hand to show the thumb arc, because a RIGHT thumb wouldn't make it far enough to hit a upper left Back button without stretching.   It was a very clever piece of misdirection, that most viewers did not notice. )

 

Do your fingers not bend or something? Come on. Enough with this nonsense.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #132 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

It's nothing like that.

 

Since the very first device, there hadn't been a cell phone that couldn't be used with only one hand. Until the Android nonsense started, that is.

 

But, as some of us keep trying to impress on the naysayers, IT'S NOT JUST A PHONE!!! It's a portable computer. For many (most?) of us, voice calls represent a fraction of what we do with the device. About the ONLY measure by which one might conclude one-handed use is preferable is holding it to the side of your head, which again, many of us don't do anymore anyway because we have headsets for that. For just about ANY other use, from navigation to typing, accuracy and ease-of-use increase exponentially with a larger screen.

post #133 of 154
Originally Posted by v5v View Post
For just about ANY other use, from navigation to typing, accuracy and ease-of-use increase exponentially with a larger screen.

 

Whoops. You forgot to replace "a larger screen" in your copy-pasted argument with "two hands". Shame.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #134 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Do your fingers not bend or something? Come on. Enough with this nonsense.

 

So you're taking the position that an even larger iPhone screen would still be fine for one-handed usage?

post #135 of 154
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post
So you're taking the position that an even larger iPhone screen would still be fine for one-handed usage?

 

I'm taking the position that there's a definitive size line to be drawn whereby at some point it's physically impossible to use a phone with one hand. We can bell curve the line if you'd like.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #136 of 154

I think the issue of a larger phone has little to do with a "phone" per se.  Many many people use their "phone" more as a "computer".  The bigger screen has to do with the computer aspect.  If you look at the phone as just an app, you see what I mean.

 

One still wants ease of carrying, so we can argue about the right size, but clearly more than 4 inches, perhaps 5 or 6.

 

Moral of the story: for many users, think of the phone as an app.

post #137 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by hledgard View Post

I think the issue of a larger phone has little to do with a "phone" per se.  Many many people use their "phone" more as a "computer".  The bigger screen has to do with the computer aspect.  If you look at the phone as just an app, you see what I mean.

One still wants ease of carrying, so we can argue about the right size, but clearly more than 4 inches, perhaps 5 or 6.

Moral of the story: for many users, think of the phone as an app.

Even if we remove the phone from the equation completely there is still the total size limitation for the device. Note the 4" iPhone is smaller than the 3.5" iPhone.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #138 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I'm taking the position that there's a definitive size line to be drawn whereby at some point it's physically impossible to use a phone with one hand. 

 

Fair enough.  Do you think the iPhone has reached that size limit?

 

As I noted, the size limit (either large or small) also depends on the UI and input method(s).    As for input, we got away with small screens for years because of cursor keys and trackpads.   The same solution works for larger screens.

 

As for touch-only UIs, the key is primary control placement.  The cardinal rule of touch UIs is that the most often used controls should be at the bottom, partly so your hand doesn't cover the screen.   The trouble with iOS is that Back is used more often than its designers planned.

 

Android and WP get away with larger screens partly because of not placing the Back at the upper left, which is inconvenient for most users.  Android doesn't get a total freebie here though.   It defaults to tabs at the top, just to be different from iOS. 

post #139 of 154

This whole discussion has been very informative.  I hope that Apple designers think about things in this kind of depth.

 

This is a big issue for Apple, and I appreciate the talents and insights of those who contribute to AI.

post #140 of 154

Originally Posted by KDarling View Post
Do you think the iPhone has reached that size limit?

 

The low end of it, yes.


The trouble with iOS is that Back is used more often than its designers planned.

 

Source? How could they have not planned it to be used exactly as often as it is used? It's the only way to go back. Pretty dang sure they know how often it's being used.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply
post #141 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling 
Android and WP get away with larger screens partly because of not placing the Back at the upper left, which is inconvenient for most users.  Android doesn't get a total freebie here though. It defaults to tabs at the top, just to be different from iOS.

Some Android devices put hardware back buttons on the side but this was mainly before they had global software navigation:

http://developer.android.com/design/patterns/navigation.html

The position of those buttons has an advantage but Android's scheme is confusing because the same buttons do different things in different contexts (yes I am aware of the volume-up/shutter button but it's the exception). Also, you don't always need the buttons but they always use the space. Apple's home button works better than the software home button because as soon as you see the device, you know what to do - it's almost like a power button. While they could have a gesture bar at the bottom and have things like swipe right to go back, it doesn't work in landscape. They could have a swipe from the left (like notification center) and this has been done by 3rd parties but the biggest problem is that nothing expect a back button at the top works in a partitioned screen. If you have a view like settings in the iPad, the back button sits in the right-hand partition.

I think it would be quite good if the home button was capacitive (even if it was in addition to being physical) and that way press-hold or press goes home, swiping right goes back, swiping left can go forward again, swiping up does multi-tasking, swiping down opens notification center (swipe up to dismiss) and it would execute the action in the best way. It would track which view partition you were just using.
post #142 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

The position of those buttons has an advantage but Android's scheme is confusing because the same buttons do different things in different contexts (yes I am aware of the volume-up/shutter button but it's the exception). 

 

I agree.  I think that's the most confusing thing to people moving over from iOS.   They expect the Back button to stop at the app's topmost level.

 

Also, you don't always need the buttons but they always use the space. 
 

Of course, the Apple Home button always uses space (lots of it, since it's round).

 

Android buttons can actually go away in some modes if they're part of the screen.   For example, I just took these two screenshots from a Galaxy Nexus.  In fullscreen video mode, the buttons and statusbar disappear, and the whole front of the phone is used:

 

 

Quote:
Apple's home button works better than the software home button because as soon as you see the device, you know what to do - it's almost like a power button. 

 

I think the Home button on the iPhone is one of the best ideas ever.   It's like a safety net and it's easy.

 

Moreover, it neatly solved a common problem of the time, especially with a new OS:  a need for a way for the user to recover from a runaway program or an OS glitch.   By using a physical button, with an electrical interrupt to the CPU, the user actually "reset" the OS every single time they clicked Home.  Brilliant.  Absolutely brilliant.

 

The downside later on, was that with only one button, Apple has had to shoehorn extra functionality into it via multiple clicks.

 

 

Quote:
I think it would be quite good if the home button was capacitive (even if it was in addition to being physical) and that way press-hold or press goes home, swiping right goes back, swiping left can go forward again, swiping up does multi-tasking, swiping down opens notification center (swipe up to dismiss) and it would execute the action in the best way. It would track which view partition you were just using.

 

Yep, there are lots of things that could be done.

 

For example, I liked WebOS and its multitasking control gestures.  It was intuitive and fun to use.

 

I also liked a phone I had with a capacitive zoom bar under the screen.  Super easy one-handed zooming on most pages.  Very smart.

post #143 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Some Android devices put hardware back buttons on the side but this was mainly before they had global software navigation:
http://developer.android.com/design/patterns/navigation.html
The position of those buttons has an advantage but Android's scheme is confusing because the same buttons do different things in different contexts (yes I am aware of the volume-up/shutter button but it's the exception). Also, you don't always need the buttons but they always use the space. Apple's home button works better than the software home button because as soon as you see the device, you know what to do - it's almost like a power button. While they could have a gesture bar at the bottom and have things like swipe right to go back, it doesn't work in landscape. They could have a swipe from the left (like notification center) and this has been done by 3rd parties but the biggest problem is that nothing expect a back button at the top works in a partitioned screen. If you have a view like settings in the iPad, the back button sits in the right-hand partition.
I think it would be quite good if the home button was capacitive (even if it was in addition to being physical) and that way press-hold or press goes home, swiping right goes back, swiping left can go forward again, swiping up does multi-tasking, swiping down opens notification center (swipe up to dismiss) and it would execute the action in the best way. It would track which view partition you were just using.
This is where I hope that the whole bottom will be a touch panel single button but supports gestures and tap to go home, this is like the current Macintosh trackpad.
post #144 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis Hannah View Post

This is where I hope that the whole bottom will be a touch panel single button but supports gestures and tap to go home, this is like the current Macintosh trackpad.

I agree with this.

 

I think we may see this in iPhone 6 or 7. 

post #145 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

I agree with this.

I think we may see this in iPhone 6 or 7. 
Agreed, not to mention it might give extra room which is very needed in iPhone, allowing for a thinner IPhone.
post #146 of 154
Apple needs to be working on functional and UI innovations. The iPhone is not a toy, and shouldn't be marketed as such. SJ had an eye and focus on both functional, usability and style which made Apple profitable and innovative.

Then there is this thinner and thinner crowd at Apple. There certainly is internal functional improvements that come with the ability to compress which can translate into functional improvements, but even under SJ I got bored with this promotion. Certainly the ability of compress components allowed the iPad to be shrunk to the iPad Mini, which is quite an impressive product, so this compression process can result in important products.

I hope Ive can revive Apple's innovation, because that innovation seems lagging at the present.
post #147 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

I hope Ive can revive Apple's innovation, because that innovation seems lagging at the present.

 

I guess Apple isn't going to present really new ideas soon. What kind of product don't they have in the tech area?

The user interface revolution of the smartphone world is done, that was the real innovation of apple in that area.

But now it's the usual race. Bigger, better, faster, stronger. But nothing really new or innovative.

But maybe I'm totally wrong and that's the reason I don't work in a R&D department.

post #148 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by changeover View Post

 

I guess Apple isn't going to present really new ideas soon. What kind of product don't they have in the tech area?

The user interface revolution of the smartphone world is done, that was the real innovation of apple in that area.

But now it's the usual race. Bigger, better, faster, stronger. But nothing really new or innovative.

But maybe I'm totally wrong and that's the reason I don't work in a R&D department.

We'll see anyway. It's not like there aren't a lot of products lines that Apple could step into... TV, cars, makeup, intelligent clothing, whatever...

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

Reply
post #149 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

Apple needs to be working on functional and UI innovations. The iPhone is not a toy, and shouldn't be marketed as such. SJ had an eye and focus on both functional, usability and style which made Apple profitable and innovative.

Then there is this thinner and thinner crowd at Apple. There certainly is internal functional improvements that come with the ability to compress which can translate into functional improvements, but even under SJ I got bored with this promotion. Certainly the ability of compress components allowed the iPad to be shrunk to the iPad Mini, which is quite an impressive product, so this compression process can result in important products.

I hope Ive can revive Apple's innovation, because that innovation seems lagging at the present.

 

I personally think that as electronics become smaller, we're going to begin seeing more functional improvements, and one of those improvements is going to be the implementation of more durable components. We're already seeing tougher materials being utilized in manufacturing and hopefully we'll see the day when drop/dust/water proof devices (hopefully Apple) are standard without having to utilize a third-party case for protection.

post #150 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

I hope Ive can revive Apple's innovation, because that innovation seems lagging at the present.

How much of apple's innovation is driven by Ives?

Great design yes.

New product ideas?

Not as much as a lot of folks seem to think. I wonder who the visionary is and if they actually have one within the executive ranks.
post #151 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

How much of apple's innovation is driven by Ives?

 

Good question.

 

In Jobs' biography, Jon Ive says that he was the one who came up with the idea of using multi-touch for future Apple projects.   He had a secret group work on it until it was good enough for a demo, and then he sprang it on Jobs, who immediately saw that it was perfect for the iPhone.

 

If that's a true story, then we have Ive to thank.

 

Also, if that's a true story, it's a bit sad that Jobs never publicly gave him credit.

post #152 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling 
In Jobs' biography, Jon Ive says that he was the one who came up with the idea of using multi-touch for future Apple projects.   He had a secret group work on it until it was good enough for a demo, and then he sprang it on Jobs, who immediately saw that it was perfect for the iPhone.

If that's a true story, then we have Ive to thank.

There are a number of people listed on the patents:

http://www.google.com/patents/US7843427
http://www.google.com/patents/US7479949
http://www.google.com/patents/US20060026536

It makes life easier to assign all the credit to one person but in reality, Apple isn't a one-man show and never has been. Good ideas don't have to come from a select few either. They can just as easily come from the toilet cleaner as an SVP.
post #153 of 154

I have an iPhone 5 currently and I wonder what is it going to take to get me out of my iPhone 5 and into an iPhone 5S or iPhone 6.

 

Assuming nearly every software feature in iOS7 turns up in iPhone 5, that leaves the hardware.

 

New colors? Nope

Fingerprint scanner and E-wallet functionality? Nope

4" sub 720P screen? Nope

Recycled iPhone 5 chassis? Nope

Same battery life? Nope

 

In English, I'm mostly content with my iPhone 5 and Apple would need to raise the bar quite a bit to get me into a new iPhone.

 

And I don't believe phone size alone dictates one handed usage. You can easily go to a 4.5" screen and maintain one handed use as long as you tailor your UI elements to be in the quadrants most accessible to thumbs. My last android phone was a Sprint Galaxy S2 and usability was never an issue, even on a 4.5" screen, but that's my personal limit. Phones over that size feel obnoxiously large.

post #154 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post

I have an iPhone 5 currently and I wonder what is it going to take to get me out of my iPhone 5 and into an iPhone 5S or iPhone 6.

It should have a PowerVR 6 Rogue GPU. While that won't be useful to everyone, it's a compelling upgrade with OpenGL ES 3 and OpenCL support. It should be powerful enough to port mainstream games over in full.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post

4" sub 720P screen? Nope

You can make it 1080p if you like but you won't see the difference unless you have special retinas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post

I'm mostly content with my iPhone 5 and Apple would need to raise the bar quite a bit to get me into a new iPhone.

Is there a requirement to get a new phone every year? If you are happy with what you have, save your money. If anything they should lower the bar to let the competition catch up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post

And I don't believe phone size alone dictates one handed usage.

What you are using the phone for plays a part in it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post

a 4.5" screen, but that's my personal limit. Phones over that size feel obnoxiously large.

Then the 4" iPhone fits within your limit and avoids being above someone else's limit.
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