Rumor: Apple's next iPhones to debut this summer in more sizes, colors - Page 4

Originally Posted by v5v 
Go into the kitchen and grab a plate. Now hold it up to your ear.

Had to hold it by the little foot circle, since its diameter is 10" and my hand's span is only 9.5". Fell to the floor; shattered. Guess you were wrong. Thanks for offering such an easy way to prove it.

Originally Posted by v5v 
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My response was in jest, but you really think that people actually hold their phones like that, don't you? Or are comfortable holding something in that manner by their heads…

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Originally Posted by gwmac 

It is user friendly because it is far easier on the eyes for me at least. My friend just got a Droid DNA by HTC which has a 5" screen but is very light and thin and easily fit in my pocket. The display is 1080P with a 1920 x 1080 resolution. It really is a gorgeous display and unlike the bulkier phones from the past easily passes the pocketability test. I have to believe that I am far from alone in wanting to stick with an iPhone and iOS but also wanting a big display.  

Bingo.  You nailed it.   When I moved from the 3GS over to the original Samsung Galaxy 3 years ago, I knew I could never go back to a 3.5" screen.  Now that I have a 4.65" screen (GN), I can't see going back to a 4".  I still play around with the 4S though as I have a number of friends who have it and the build quality is quite nice but it is a bit heavy for me.

As for the "pocketability", I have wear Lucky Jeans fairly often and I can easily fit my Nexus 7 in my front pocket when I need to move around the house.  So yeah, my 4.65" phone easily fits into my front pocket.  My next phone will probably be int he 5" to 5.5" spot and while I recognize that not everyone wants a phone of that size, there are many who do.  It is quite feasible to use once handed as well with the advent of Swype and other similar keyboards out there.  Just thought I would share my views on the topic.

The design logic behind the 3.5 and 4 inch screen has always been that it could easily be used with only one hand. I think a 4 inch screen is already pushing the limits, if it changes that would really represent the end of Steve's Apple.  Go away you 5 inch samsung fans.

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Originally Posted by dnd0ps 

The design logic behind the 3.5 and 4 inch screen has always been that it could easily be used with only one hand.

But that's like designing a hockey stick so it can be used with just one hand. First, while you do sometimes hold it in one hand, most of the time you're better off using two. Second, making it good for one hand reduces it's overall usability so it's self-defeating. Sure, there are some who prefer to keep one hand free for... whatever it is they do with that hand, but most people are perfectly happy to use two hands on the device. Most people I know with iPhones use two hands anyway.

Originally Posted by v5v 
But that's like designing a hockey stick so it can be used with just one hand.

It's nothing like that.

Since the very first device, there hadn't been a cell phone that couldn't be used with only one hand. Until the Android nonsense started, that is.

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Originally Posted by dnd0ps 

The design logic behind the 3.5 and 4 inch screen has always been that it could easily be used with only one hand. I think a 4 inch screen is already pushing the limits, if it changes that would really represent the end of Steve's Apple.  Go away you 5 inch samsung fans.

I'm a 5 inch iPhone fan.  I think it would sell like hotcakes, just as the iPad Mini is doing.   Both are easy market predictions.

However, you're right:   iOS is stuck because it was not designed to be usable with one hand on a larger screen.  This is because the BACK button for almost every app is at the upper left, which is too far from the RIGHT thumb that most people use.

(Apple's recent "Common Sense" ad about one-handed usage used a LEFT hand to show the thumb arc, because a RIGHT thumb wouldn't make it far enough to hit a upper left Back button without stretching.   It was a very clever piece of misdirection, that most viewers did not notice. )

Anyway, the upshot is, iOS will need to either move the Back button or add a physical one, in order for a larger screen to stay pretty usable with one hand.

This is one of the things that drive me crazy about using the iPad while laying down... having to shift everything to reach way up to click Back.

Originally Posted by KDarling 

(Apple's recent "Common Sense" ad about one-handed usage used a LEFT hand to show the thumb arc, because a RIGHT thumb wouldn't make it far enough to hit a upper left Back button without stretching.   It was a very clever piece of misdirection, that most viewers did not notice. )

Do your fingers not bend or something? Come on. Enough with this nonsense.

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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil 

 

It's nothing like that.

 

Since the very first device, there hadn't been a cell phone that couldn't be used with only one hand. Until the Android nonsense started, that is.

But, as some of us keep trying to impress on the naysayers, IT'S NOT JUST A PHONE!!! It's a portable computer. For many (most?) of us, voice calls represent a fraction of what we do with the device. About the ONLY measure by which one might conclude one-handed use is preferable is holding it to the side of your head, which again, many of us don't do anymore anyway because we have headsets for that. For just about ANY other use, from navigation to typing, accuracy and ease-of-use increase exponentially with a larger screen.

Originally Posted by v5v 
For just about ANY other use, from navigation to typing, accuracy and ease-of-use increase exponentially with a larger screen.

Whoops. You forgot to replace "a larger screen" in your copy-pasted argument with "two hands". Shame.

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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil 

Do your fingers not bend or something? Come on. Enough with this nonsense.

So you're taking the position that an even larger iPhone screen would still be fine for one-handed usage?

Originally Posted by KDarling 
So you're taking the position that an even larger iPhone screen would still be fine for one-handed usage?

I'm taking the position that there's a definitive size line to be drawn whereby at some point it's physically impossible to use a phone with one hand. We can bell curve the line if you'd like.

I think the issue of a larger phone has little to do with a "phone" per se.  Many many people use their "phone" more as a "computer".  The bigger screen has to do with the computer aspect.  If you look at the phone as just an app, you see what I mean.

One still wants ease of carrying, so we can argue about the right size, but clearly more than 4 inches, perhaps 5 or 6.

Moral of the story: for many users, think of the phone as an app.

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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil 

I'm taking the position that there's a definitive size line to be drawn whereby at some point it's physically impossible to use a phone with one hand. 

Fair enough.  Do you think the iPhone has reached that size limit?

As I noted, the size limit (either large or small) also depends on the UI and input method(s).    As for input, we got away with small screens for years because of cursor keys and trackpads.   The same solution works for larger screens.

As for touch-only UIs, the key is primary control placement.  The cardinal rule of touch UIs is that the most often used controls should be at the bottom, partly so your hand doesn't cover the screen.   The trouble with iOS is that Back is used more often than its designers planned.

Android and WP get away with larger screens partly because of not placing the Back at the upper left, which is inconvenient for most users.  Android doesn't get a total freebie here though.   It defaults to tabs at the top, just to be different from iOS. 

This whole discussion has been very informative.  I hope that Apple designers think about things in this kind of depth.

This is a big issue for Apple, and I appreciate the talents and insights of those who contribute to AI.

The low end of it, yes.

Source? How could they have not planned it to be used exactly as often as it is used? It's the only way to go back. Pretty dang sure they know how often it's being used.

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Originally Posted by Marvin 

The position of those buttons has an advantage but Android's scheme is confusing because the same buttons do different things in different contexts (yes I am aware of the volume-up/shutter button but it's the exception). 

I agree.  I think that's the most confusing thing to people moving over from iOS.   They expect the Back button to stop at the app's topmost level.

Of course, the Apple Home button always uses space (lots of it, since it's round).

Android buttons can actually go away in some modes if they're part of the screen.   For example, I just took these two screenshots from a Galaxy Nexus.  In fullscreen video mode, the buttons and statusbar disappear, and the whole front of the phone is used:

I think the Home button on the iPhone is one of the best ideas ever.   It's like a safety net and it's easy.

Moreover, it neatly solved a common problem of the time, especially with a new OS:  a need for a way for the user to recover from a runaway program or an OS glitch.   By using a physical button, with an electrical interrupt to the CPU, the user actually "reset" the OS every single time they clicked Home.  Brilliant.  Absolutely brilliant.

The downside later on, was that with only one button, Apple has had to shoehorn extra functionality into it via multiple clicks.

Yep, there are lots of things that could be done.

For example, I liked WebOS and its multitasking control gestures.  It was intuitive and fun to use.

I also liked a phone I had with a capacitive zoom bar under the screen.  Super easy one-handed zooming on most pages.  Very smart.

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Originally Posted by Curtis Hannah 

This is where I hope that the whole bottom will be a touch panel single button but supports gestures and tap to go home, this is like the current Macintosh trackpad.

I agree with this.

I think we may see this in iPhone 6 or 7. 

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Originally Posted by waldobushman 

I hope Ive can revive Apple's innovation, because that innovation seems lagging at the present.

I guess Apple isn't going to present really new ideas soon. What kind of product don't they have in the tech area?

The user interface revolution of the smartphone world is done, that was the real innovation of apple in that area.

But now it's the usual race. Bigger, better, faster, stronger. But nothing really new or innovative.

But maybe I'm totally wrong and that's the reason I don't work in a R&D department.

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Originally Posted by changeover 

 

I guess Apple isn't going to present really new ideas soon. What kind of product don't they have in the tech area?

The user interface revolution of the smartphone world is done, that was the real innovation of apple in that area.

But now it's the usual race. Bigger, better, faster, stronger. But nothing really new or innovative.

But maybe I'm totally wrong and that's the reason I don't work in a R&D department.

We'll see anyway. It's not like there aren't a lot of products lines that Apple could step into... TV, cars, makeup, intelligent clothing, whatever...

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Originally Posted by waldobushman 

Apple needs to be working on functional and UI innovations. The iPhone is not a toy, and shouldn't be marketed as such. SJ had an eye and focus on both functional, usability and style which made Apple profitable and innovative.

Then there is this thinner and thinner crowd at Apple. There certainly is internal functional improvements that come with the ability to compress which can translate into functional improvements, but even under SJ I got bored with this promotion. Certainly the ability of compress components allowed the iPad to be shrunk to the iPad Mini, which is quite an impressive product, so this compression process can result in important products.

I hope Ive can revive Apple's innovation, because that innovation seems lagging at the present.

I personally think that as electronics become smaller, we're going to begin seeing more functional improvements, and one of those improvements is going to be the implementation of more durable components. We're already seeing tougher materials being utilized in manufacturing and hopefully we'll see the day when drop/dust/water proof devices (hopefully Apple) are standard without having to utilize a third-party case for protection.

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Originally Posted by nht 

How much of apple's innovation is driven by Ives?

Good question.

In Jobs' biography, Jon Ive says that he was the one who came up with the idea of using multi-touch for future Apple projects.   He had a secret group work on it until it was good enough for a demo, and then he sprang it on Jobs, who immediately saw that it was perfect for the iPhone.

If that's a true story, then we have Ive to thank.

Also, if that's a true story, it's a bit sad that Jobs never publicly gave him credit.

I have an iPhone 5 currently and I wonder what is it going to take to get me out of my iPhone 5 and into an iPhone 5S or iPhone 6.

Assuming nearly every software feature in iOS7 turns up in iPhone 5, that leaves the hardware.

New colors? Nope

Fingerprint scanner and E-wallet functionality? Nope

4" sub 720P screen? Nope

Recycled iPhone 5 chassis? Nope

Same battery life? Nope

In English, I'm mostly content with my iPhone 5 and Apple would need to raise the bar quite a bit to get me into a new iPhone.

And I don't believe phone size alone dictates one handed usage. You can easily go to a 4.5" screen and maintain one handed use as long as you tailor your UI elements to be in the quadrants most accessible to thumbs. My last android phone was a Sprint Galaxy S2 and usability was never an issue, even on a 4.5" screen, but that's my personal limit. Phones over that size feel obnoxiously large.