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CES 2013 expected to showcase 'embarrassingly large' smartphones

post #1 of 193
Thread Starter 
Big-screen "phablet" devices, positioned between a smartphone and a tablet, are predicted to be a big trend at this year's Consumer Electronics Show.

With Huawei expected to unveil the Ascend Mate with a 6.1-inch screen, and 5-inch phones anticipated from LG and ZTE, Brian White of Topeka Capital Markets expects CES 2013 to showcase a number of "embarrassingly large" smartphones.

Though he finds smartphones with screen sizes of 5 inches and larger "awkward to hold," he found in his recent trips to China and Hong Kong that there has been a trend in the market toward "ultra-large smartphones at the high end of the market," such as with Samsung's recently released Galaxy Note II.

If the market is truly headed in that direction, White believes that even Apple may not be immune to this trend. Earlier this week, he predicted that Apple will expand the iPhone lineup this year with new colors, beyond the current black and white options, as well as multiple screen sizes.

Galaxy Note II


"We believe Apple will offer customers more screen sizes with the next iPhone and a display as large as 5 inches is not out of the question, in our view," White reiterated in his latest note to investors on Friday.

He also expects major TV makers will continue to evolve the platform, such as Samsung, which is hyping a new HDTV model with an "unprecedented new shape." But he believes that Apple is the only company on the market right now that could truly reinvent the television experience.

"We still believe the 'elephant in the room' at CES will be Apple TV that we believe will totally reinvent the TV experience," he said. "Apple's ability to develop hardware and software together, combined with a relentless, detailed focus on aesthetics and a robust ecosystem will make the company difficult to beat in the coming years."
post #2 of 193

I just can't see Apple making a phone larger than 4.2-4.3 inches.

 

So far Apple has not bothered with scraps.
 

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post #3 of 193

If those big-screen devices are truly "embarrassingly large" then it won't be something Apple offers, nor will they be market successes for others. 

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post #4 of 193

So in other words, nothing much to see at CES.

post #5 of 193
when the number one is still the iphone, they don't need to make a "phablet". first an foremost, a cell phone needs to function as a phone.

has anyone check this guys previous forcasts? Did he also call for Apple to enter the "lucrative" netbook market or the cheap crap sub $500 PC market?
post #6 of 193
Wow, new colors! A new awkward size! This guy is truly a visionary and Apple should put him in charge of visioneering.

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post #7 of 193
Guy at work has the Note 2. He upgraded from an iPhone 4. We were comparing it to my iPhone 5, and yes, the Note 2 screen looks great. Then he started loading up common Apps and I was surprised how badly they looked. There was so much white space because the Apps were scaled. They didn't really display any additional information with the larger screen, it was just spread out with unused space between.

Big screens (including tablets like the iPad) are terrible if the software isn't taking advantage of it.
post #8 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

I just can't see Apple making a phone larger than 4.2-4.3 inches.

So far Apple has not bothered with scraps.

 

I don't see a problem with adding phone capability to iPads as an option.
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post #9 of 193
ipad and ipad mini with integrated iPhones, it's the trend for the everything in one device. just like the original iPhone where adding a music device into a smart phone was revolutionary, now we are seeing the evolutionary result.
post #10 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


I don't see a problem with adding phone capability to iPads as an option.

 

That's a different ball of wax all together and not what the article is stating.

 

... but, yes, I have no problem with that.

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post #11 of 193

CES 2013

Hot: Driverless cars

Not: Phablets

 

Phablets: As horrible as their name

post #12 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

I just can't see Apple making a phone larger than 4.2-4.3 inches.

So far Apple has not bothered with scraps.

 

Apple might do it. But like with the larger iPhone 5 I think they will wait to see if the trend sticks before jumping in.

Or just support folks doing VoIP for the iPad etc. with that, the iPad mini is your phablet

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

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post #13 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris v View Post

Wow, new colors! A new awkward size! This guy is truly a visionary and Apple should put him in charge of visioneering.

they better hurry. I hear Forstall and Sinofsky are going into biz together and want to grab him. And Browett is running their retail department. Apple is doomed

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post #14 of 193
I'm sure Apple will make the right decision
post #15 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifij775 View Post

CES 2013

Hot: Driverless cars

Not: Phablets

 

Phablets: As horrible as their name

No. Phablets are selling like hotcakes and can be very profitable business. I bet samsung is making a lot of money from each note2 sold.

 

Obviously, phones like the note sell because they are based on hype and their buyers are stupid or have special needs (huge people, poor vision, etc). As soon as phablets lose fashion status (people are seeing a big screen phone as a more advanced phone, despite the fact that the iPhone as a device is 100 steps ahead on everything), phablets (like the note, etc) sales are going down, because they just can't go "bigger".

 

However, I can't afford an iphone+ipad. I'm 100% convinced that Apple could make an awesome phablet (A highend class screen, highend class performance, huge battery life, highend ecosystem, something that no phablet is offering right now.) and it would sell like hotcakes, even creating a new device category. I would buy one, and it would be used to it's potential.

 

On other circumstances, Apple would make one. However stupid people read press, "are" the press, and are flaming Apple even if they do it or even if they don't. I don't forgive them for trying to "force" apple to do something, and flaming them no matter what.

Apple is the only one that is able to make a great phablet, and you can bet a great tablet would quickly become the best selling/more profitable gadget on history. Apple MUST do one.

 

Look... if I buy a galaxy note instead of an iPhone, what will I get?

 

- Less speed (java vs cocoa), weak performance especially on GPU (the iphone is at least 2x faster on every test), worse screen (oversaturated pentile crap, less ppi), less build quality, less batery life on demanding tasks, shitty ecosystem that makes the big screen a pain, etc.

You lose a lot and gain nothing unless you have special needs.

 

But imagine this:

 

- overclocked a6, overclocked GPU or even ROGUE, big 5inch screen with the same properties or even the new 1080p 440ppi IGZO from sharp, same build quality, 3000mA battery instead of 1050, iOS and its updated apps.

 

This device is the highway for 1trillion dollars folks, don't let Android stupid decisions and stupid marketing fool yourselves. The iPhoneX could/should even create a third App version for iOS. Every dot is connected. Enterprise, universities and their students, small businesses would "eat" every single iPhoneX that could be made.


Edited by pedromartins - 1/4/13 at 7:50am
post #16 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


Apple might do it. But like with the larger iPhone 5 I think they will wait to see if the trend sticks before jumping in.
Or just support folks doing VoIP for the iPad etc. with that, the iPad mini is your phablet

 

I am wondering how others would fare if Apple released a phone in the 4.3 inch range that kept the old aspect ratio of 3:2.

 

An iPhone of that size with Ive's touch just might make a bunch of phablets disappear.

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post #17 of 193
That settles it; Apple will release a 2.8" iPhone Nano. Zig when others Zag...
post #18 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

No. Phablets are selling like hotcakes and can be very profitable business. I bet samsung is making a lot of money from each note2 sold.

Obviously phones like the note sell because they are based on hype and their buyers are stupid or have special needs (huge people, poor vision, etc). As soon as phablets lose fashion status (people are seeing a big screen phone as a more advanced phone, despite the fact that the iPhone as a device is 100 steps ahead on everything), phablets (like the note, etc) sales are going down, because they just can't go "bigger".

However, I can't afford an iphone+ipad. I'm 100% convinced that Apple could make an awesome phablet
Apple could make a great 5-6" iPad with phone features, priced in the $750 range off-contract that would sell well. But what would it do to iPhone and iPad sales?

The problem right now with the iPhone is advertising. Websites (including this one) place far too much modal information on the screen, limiting useful space for browsing. This is where the Blackberry failed in 2006-- not being able to read enough of an article due to limited (effective) screen real-estate. Now we are back at square one. If websites let their readers focus on content, larger devices would not be required.

It will be interesting to see what happens in a few years. I'm not willing to carry around a larger device just so people can dump more ads on me though. It is a nuisance.
post #19 of 193
The iPads already have the ability to function as phones (microphones and speakers with 4G) but I can't see someone holding even the small iPad up to their ear. Of course, with change, the way we talk on a phone will change. Many people use Bluetooth headsets/earbuds so the change has already happened. Apple could easily add whatever components it needs to be a fully functioning cell-iPad, that would be easy. The problem is carrying an iPad. My pants don't have big enough pockets to hold the small iPad or any of the already-too-large Android phones. The iPhone5 fits just fine. I don't wear suits, except on rare occasions, so I don't have the large inside coat pocket. Where do people expect to carry these huge phones?
post #20 of 193
This all reminds me of the Woody Allen movie where he cases a bank using a camera hidden in a loaf of bread. You don't want to hold something that big next to your face.

Why "phablets" anyway? You could just as easily call them "Tabones".

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post #21 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

Phablets are selling like hotcakes and can be very profitable business. I bet samsung is making a lot of money from each note2 sold.

And not just phablets. Most Samsung smartphones today (and basically all other decent smartphones) are well over 4"

I love my iPhone.... but Apple only recently got to a 4" 16:9 screen... something the original Galaxy S had in 2010. And Samsung smartphones have grown ever since.

Galaxy S 4.0"
Galaxy SII 4.3"
Galaxy SIII 4.8"

How big is too big? I dunno... but I'd like the option to get a larger iPhone. Just a little larger 1wink.gif
post #22 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


I don't see a problem with adding phone capability to iPads as an option.

facetime.

post #23 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh View Post


Apple could make a great 5-6" iPad with phone features, priced in the $750 range off-contract that would sell well. But what would it do to iPhone and iPad sales?
The problem right now with the iPhone is advertising. Websites (including this one) place far too much modal information on the screen, limiting useful space for browsing. This is where the Blackberry failed in 2006-- not being able to read enough of an article due to limited (effective) screen real-estate. Now we are back at square one. If websites let their readers focus on content, larger devices would not be required.
It will be interesting to see what happens in a few years. I'm not willing to carry around a larger device just so people can dump more ads on me though. It is a nuisance.

Most iPhone users do not want bigger screens, but a lot do. Those would buy the iPhoneX. Since that as a device the iPhone is so superior, almost all phablet (even those that want 4.0+ screens) users would buy it too.

 

Android makes big screens (more than 4.0 or 4.2) useless. iOS doesn't.

 

More iPhone sales, more marketshare, stronger iOS ecosystem. It's win-win-win.

Just like the iPad allows for a different kind of app (better interface, for example) that the iPhone doesn't (so they "complete" themselves), a well made phablet could allow even more potential for iOS apps.

 

Cad viewing, programs like excel, games, videos etc would be better on an equivalent 5" iPhone. A 5" iPhone is a better iPhone for millions and million of users. It's better for millions for current iOS users and much better for millions of Android/BB/windows users.

post #24 of 193

if Apple made an iPhone the same size as the S3 I would ditch my S3 and jump back on the Apple bandwagon.  Based on what I want to use my phone for now the iPhone 5 is just too small.

post #25 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

when the number one is still the iphone, they don't need to make a "phablet". first an foremost, a cell phone needs to function as a phone.
has anyone check this guys previous forcasts? Did he also call for Apple to enter the "lucrative" netbook market or the cheap crap sub $500 PC market?

 

 

True. Netbooks were once the "future of computing." Now Acer and Asustek, the last manufacturers of netbooks, are ceasing production. "Phablets" don't do anything better. If I want a tablet, I need a bigger screen than 5.5" or 6". And a smaller phone is more comfortable to use.

 

I can see Apple making the iPhone screen slightly bigger, but I think that will come from eliminating the home button and what's left of the bezel. I don't see them making "phablets" ever.

 

On a side note, everyone credits Samsung for the "phablet," but it was Dell who was first, almost a year before the Galaxy Note. No one bought it.

post #26 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post


And not just phablets. Most Samsung smartphones today (and basically all other decent smartphones) are well over 4"
I love my iPhone.... but Apple only recently got to a 4" 16:9 screen... something the original Galaxy S had in 2010. And Samsung smartphones have grown ever since.
Galaxy S 4.0"
Galaxy SII 4.3"
Galaxy SIII 4.8"
How big is too big? I dunno... but I'd like the option to get a larger iPhone. Just a little larger 1wink.gif

why?

 

What job does a 'little' larger screen phone do?    mobile phones are... mobile.  Mobile means small and agile.  big means a lot of things, 

- more power consumed

- more weight

- more clumsy

- less places to store it.

 

If you are going to 'fire' an iPhone 5 from it's current job, what isn't it doing that a 4.3" screen will do for you?   

post #27 of 193
The genius of the original iPhone form factor (the 3.5 inch screen) originated , IMO, from the fact that you can hold and operate it in one hand. It was just right for just about everyone.
Now when they came out with the iPhone 5, I believe they pushed the limits to the very edge, for one hand handling, thumb typing.
When I purchased, my iPhone 5, I was wowed by the network speed of LTE, the primary reason why I bought it, but felt there are times when I found that the top left hand corner of the screen was slighltly out of reach for one hand handling. I'm 6 ft. tall by the way, with average hands. When I handle my old iPhone 4S,now owned and operated by my GF, I still long for that very natural experience that form factor offered.
All that, to say that I have handled Samsung GalaxyS II (4.3 inches) and find the top one third of the screen out of reach. I also handled a family member's Samsung Ativ ( same form factor as the GalaxyS III) and find that way too big.
I personally hope that sir Ive will not fall down that rabbit hole of the phablet.
post #28 of 193

Yes, 5"+ phones and tablets are a silly idea, but they are still selling well because the world is full of silly people; These devices aren't just being bought by special needs users, either. "Bigger is better" encompasses a significant portion of any consumer market. Look at how many people drive immensely impractical, comically oversized pickup trucks. Those are not confined to the 'special needs' crowd, and there aren't that many full-time construction workers driving around.

 

Much as we might know better, in a land of excess the most practical consumer product is rarely the dominant one.

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post #29 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

If those big-screen devices are truly "embarrassingly large" then it won't be something Apple offers, nor will they be market successes for others. 

They already are big successes for "others"
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post #30 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex iPhone Owner View Post

if Apple made an iPhone the same size as the S3 I would ditch my S3 and jump back on the Apple bandwagon.  Based on what I want to use my phone for now the iPhone 5 is just too small.

Why is it too small? 

 

Are you using it to do business presentations to clients?

post #31 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

But imagine this:

 

- overclocked a6, overclocked GPU or even ROGUE, big 5inch screen with the same properties or even the new 1080p 440ppi IGZO from sharp, same build quality, 3000mA battery instead of 1050, iOS and its updated apps.

 

This device is the highway for 1trillion dollars folks, don't let Android stupid decisions and stupid marketing fool yourselves. The iPhoneX could/should even create a third App version for iOS. Every dot is connected. Enterprise, universities and their students, small businesses would "eat" every single iPhoneX that could be made.

And I would be one of the first ones in line to "eat" that iPhone X.

post #32 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post


And not just phablets. Most Samsung smartphones today (and basically all other decent smartphones) are well over 4"
I love my iPhone.... but Apple only recently got to a 4" 16:9 screen... something the original Galaxy S had in 2010. And Samsung smartphones have grown ever since.
Galaxy S 4.0"
Galaxy SII 4.3"
Galaxy SIII 4.8"
How big is too big? I dunno... but I'd like the option to get a larger iPhone. Just a little larger 1wink.gif

I don't know either Michael, but i believe we are not talking about 4.2" devices. My point was 5" and more.

 

I believe that most people are "forgetting" that Apple could "easily" create a 5" iPhone that offers 2 to 3 times the speed of the galaxy note2, 2x the battery life than the note2, a much better screen, lighter thinner and great build quality (the best), 3x times the GPU power, better camera, etc etc etc.... AND:

 

- Provide the ecosystem to take advantage of it.

 

Such device has much more potential than anything on the market. Maybe not for the SMS/calls user, but for college, enterprise and businesses? That's 1 trillion dollars market cap right there.

 

What boggles my mind is the "easily" part... Apple isn't even taking a chance with it, despite 150billion $ airbag. Why? The f*cking press and keyboard warriors from both sides. I just can't believe that stupidity is preventing me to take advantage of better technology.

post #33 of 193
I don't think it's completely out of the realm of possibility that Apple might eventually expand it's product line to include a larger iPhone. Apple offers 2 screen sizes in every other product they make.

I think we could see Apple offer a 4" and 5" screen. But I agree that beyond that the market is probably marginal enough for Apple not to be worried about it- OR as suggested above, simply add phone functionality to iPads in conjunction with a wireless headset.
post #34 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post

why?

 

What job does a 'little' larger screen phone do?    mobile phones are... mobile.  Mobile means small and agile.  big means a lot of things, 

- more power consumed

- more weight

- more clumsy

- less places to store it.

 

If you are going to 'fire' an iPhone 5 from it's current job, what isn't it doing that a 4.3" screen will do for you?   

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by KPOM View Post

 

 

True. Netbooks were once the "future of computing." Now Acer and Asustek, the last manufacturers of netbooks, are ceasing production. "Phablets" don't do anything better. If I want a tablet, I need a bigger screen than 5.5" or 6". And a smaller phone is more comfortable to use.

 

I can see Apple making the iPhone screen slightly bigger, but I think that will come from eliminating the home button and what's left of the bezel. I don't see them making "phablets" ever.

 

On a side note, everyone credits Samsung for the "phablet," but it was Dell who was first, almost a year before the Galaxy Note. No one bought it.

Limited vision.

 

You guys are those that would want a "faster horse" instead of a car, back in the day.

post #35 of 193

I remember a time when everyone was racing for the smallest cellphone. Now racing for the wow factors of having a 3 mm bigger screen than competition is ridiculous and will have no end. 

 

For me the small form factors is way more important than having a fat cellphone with ridiculously big screen. 

Does anyone remember about the Dell Streak?

post #36 of 193
1) I ran the numbers and just under 5" would allow Apple to use the iPad (4)'s 264 PPI display with their 1136x640 resolution. Would that satisfy those that want a bigger display or would it also have to be some HDTV resolution like many Android phones?

2) I can't help but wonder if theis huge phone crazy isn't much like the tiny notebook phase. Are we exchanging uncomfortably small notebooks for uncomfortably large phones?

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post #37 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post

Why is it too small? 

 

Are you using it to do business presentations to clients?

lol, no I am not.  I use it to read and respond to business emails.  I go through in a day on the average of 150+ emails that I have to read / respond to and I do it on my phone.  I am also over 40 and have started to have to use reading glasses for smaller text.  I don't want a giant phone screen to see by but I do want a larger one than the iPhone 5 so that I can see my email and easily respond to them without having to pull out my reading glasses all of the time.  With my S3 I am able to do that easily.  With the iPhone 5 I bumped up the text size, but then had to scroll so much that it was a pain to read / respond to emails. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I want go back to an iPhone.  I love iOS; it's easy / straightforward design.  I love the design of the iPhone hardward.  It just looks and feels so cool.  But I hate the fact that screen feels so cramped.  If they made an iPhone with the same screen size as the S3 I would jump right back to Apple.

post #38 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by xgman View Post


They already are big successes for "others"

 

'other'    Not Plural.  unless you define success as something other than profit.

 

(click to see larger)

 

post #39 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post

why?

What job does a 'little' larger screen phone do?    mobile phones are... mobile.  Mobile means small and agile.  big means a lot of things, 
- more power consumed
- more weight
- more clumsy
- less places to store it.

If you are going to 'fire' an iPhone 5 from it's current job, what isn't it doing that a 4.3" screen will do for you?   

Because it's a bigger image on the screen.

It's the same reason you choose a 46" TV over a 40" TV... or a 15" laptop over a 13" laptop... or prefer a 3" screen on a new Nikon DSLR over a 2.5" screen on an older camera.

I don't know why this is such a difficult concept to grasp.

Besides... my pocket could certainly accommodate a larger device.

post #40 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post

Why is it too small? 

 

Are you using it to do business presentations to clients?

Are you being obtuse on purpose? (I hope this is not offending, offending isn't my goal... I will explain myself)

 

Current big phones, tablets (besides the iPad) and similar gadgets (phablets) are useless trash (unless someone has special needs) and should be treated as such. An iPhone is 100 steps ahead of every single phone being sold. True.

 

But, a 5 inch iPhone? Are you blind?

 

Note 2 vs iphone vs 5 to 6" iPhone.

 

Battery

 

3000mA vs 1050 vs possible 3000mA too ----- The iphone has better battery life than the note on demanding tasks, now imagine what a 3000 mA battery will offer (read the screen part before talking about power consumption).

 

Screen

 

oversaturated pentile (=crap) with less PPI vs retina vs possible 1080p IGZO ------ Again, imagine the pleasure of using such screen for games, reading, consumption benefits, excel, cad viewing, etc. (read the ecosystem part before talking about interfaces and apps that would make such screen a pain to use).

 

Performance

 

Quadcore designed by monkeys + java + weak GPU + html apps vs a6 + cocoa + native apps vs a6 S + cocoa + native apps + possible ROGUE GPU ----- the iPhone 5 just trounces the note 2 on every metric related to performance. The difference is huge. Now imagine it overclocked and with Rogue.

 

Ecosystem

 

Apps that do not that advantage of any atribute vs native apps designed for it vs native apps designed for it ---- Again, you know what I mean here. Imagine new apps, new interfaces, new stuff that nobody saw coming with the iPhone and later the iPad. Apple also brings the tools for earth-shaking apps to be created.

 

Please, do not underestimate the potential of this device. It can be a much better gadget than everything sold today. It opens new doors. it would also be cheaper then the iPhone + iPad combo, while providing great profit and margins.


Edited by pedromartins - 1/4/13 at 8:36am
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