CES 2013 expected to showcase 'embarrassingly large' smartphones - Page 2

Driverless cars? Yeah, I can see it now, Ferrari making a driverless car, NEVER IN A BAZILLION YEARS? You would have to be the Ultimate Tool to even want that.

I didn't phrase my comment well... sorry. I meant Apple might want to consider this as an answer to these silly large phones. Just offer an iPad mini with optional phone capability and they'd clean up IMHO.

Or not. that's stupid. 

 

The mini is just a smaller iPad, nothing new there. A decent phablet-iPhone can easely create a third category. Read my previous post, please (if you want to understand my point of view).

When was the last time Apple followed any fashionable trend? For a while, competitors were busy making laptops with ever larger 18.4- and even 20-inch screens, but along comes Apple, terminating their own 17" laptop model.

This is your 'car' analogy?

 

Sorry, you're now working your way back to the 'Car vs Truck' analogy, and you're asking for a truck that handles like a car. 

 

Enterprise doesn't want a bigger phone (I sit in that space).  Enterprise wants singular platform to manage.  iOS is that.

 

Colleges don't want phones.  iPad for them.

 

Business... other than some yet undefined road warrior, I see no $20Billion/year profit niche for a larger, faster, 'phone'.  

 

What is missing is functionality.  All of these want multi-participant collaboration (iChat AV meets FaceTime meets Webex)

All of these want integrated workspace  (iCloud meets sharepoint meets iWork meets realtime document change control)

all of these want integration into their unique business processes, which means a decomposed, distributed,  workflow management system for these processes.

 

I don't see anyone wanting a 4.8" screen  as a 'must have' over a 4" or an 8" screen. 

 

You speak of stupidity 'owning' a $150 Billion dollar airbag.  

 

       "You keep using that word. I don't think that word means what I think it means."

 

For the record the Note 2 is not Pentile. I would agree it's rather oversaturated as are most of Samsung's AMOLEDs. In an effort to rid myself of Samsung crap, I had my IT dept swap my Galaxy Nexus they gave me (my iPhone 5 is my personal line) for the new HTC DNA which has the 5in 1080p (440ppi) LCD3 display about 2 weeks ago. That screen is an absolute dream to use. Colors are terrific, reading is sharp and exceptional. I see the screen size as a great benefit for easier map navigation, reading, and games (playing Pitfall for example side by side). 

Apple make an embarrassingly large 5-6" Phablet?

That would be as embarrassing as Eric Schmidt's recent attempt to self-appointment himself as US ambassador to North Korea.

Not a chance.

Samsung has hired the Khardasian's to be the spokespersons for their new "phablets".

 

Because they had pants pockets big enough to hold a "phablet"

 

I would love that.  I would ditch my iPhone in a second if I could just use the iPad mini for everything.  

Possibly this is why things are the way they are, because I think a lot of folks would do the same if they had the opportunity.  

 

This is false.  They are selling, yes.  There is interest in the product, yes.  But to say they are "selling like hotcakes" is not really true at all.  

I think you are mistaking your own personal enthusiasm for a larger consumer interest here. 

A friend of mine just got the Galaxy Note 2 and I have to say - I just love the size format!

All of a sudden, my iPhone 5 seems like some kind of MICRO phone.

I use my iPhone 5 nearly non stop but mostly for data and the extra size would be so much nicer! The Galaxy Note 2 not too big (bigger is better right?) but the most important thing is that it still -fits in my pocket- just fine and *THAT* is the important thing. The iPad Mini is just not pocketable.

The down side of the Galaxy is of course the software.

I am all for this size factor (and even though it is not likely that Apple will adopt this since they just released the Mini) I for one hope they do, sooner rather than later.

 

I don't get this.

 

First I'm told that I'm a complete idiot for thinking that people actually use their phones as phones anymore.

 

And now if I speak out against the inclusion of telephony in a tablet, I'll definitely be called a complete idiot for thinking that anyone wouldn't want phone capability in their tablet.

 

This sort of crap doesn't make me more open to other people's ideas than I already am. It makes me ignore them entirely, writing them off as idiotic Microsoft-style "find out every conceivable use case, even the stupidest stuff you can think of, and build different products for every single one of them" ideas. It makes me think that I was right in the first place, or at least more right than the people wandering around in the fog, choosing any answer they want at will.

 

So why would people want their tablet to be a phone if:

 

1. They're not gonna be able to hold it like a phone

2. People "don't even use their smartphones as phones anymore anyway"

 

?

 

I get the whole "one device that does everything" vibe. What I don't get is why people think it's one device when in both situations it's two devices for which you have to account.

 

Not really.  You can use an iPad as a "web phone" using a VoIP app, but that doesn't make it a phone.  In fact it barely works in that configuration, and is far from being a useful phone replacement.  

 

As for the "holding it up to your ear" argument ... it's a bit of a red herring.  As you mention yourself, there are many other ways to answer a phone, some of which are more popular nowadays than the "original" (holding it up to your ear).  

 

When I see someone using an iPhone on the train or the bus these days, about half the time the person is using the earbuds instead of holding the phone up to their ear and they hold the phone itself up to their mouth like it was an ice-cream sandwich bar and whisper into the microphone at the bottom.  This is at least as popular as the "holding it up to your ear" crowd, at least among the under-30's anyway.  I see a lot of folks in restaurants lying the iPHone on the table and using speakerphone also.  

 

I think this is coming about because if you answer the phone with the earbuds in, or with a bluetooth earpiece, you end up walking down the street talking to thin air anyway.  Whereas even five years ago you would be considered some kind of executive douchebag to use a bluetooth earpiece, now it's so common people have just gotten used to it.  Once you get used to talking out loud on a phone call like that in public, then all kinds of options open up.  

 

The idea that you have to talk on the phone by raising it up to your ear is rapidly becoming just another example of "old thinking" IMO.   

I think you're thinking I disagree with you on the rest of the iOS stuff... it may be a English vs Portugese implicit communication.  and somehow you're thinking I'm anti-Apple.  I'm not.

 

I am arguing the primary point.  An Intermediate screen size does not define a untapped niche of untold riches for Apple to create yet another 300 SKUs (2 colors, 1-3 cell bands, 100 countries), that your same modifications can't provide in the current form factors.

 

 

I agree on the ecosystem, and in fact, extend it back to the cloud.  What is really missing in the apple ecosystem is 'group management'  (why can't ITMS know that my wife and I are part of a single organizational unit, that I'm a member of my work organization, and that I bowl with these 5 guys on Wednesday).  That would be enabling.

 

As for display method, i agree, however, I don't see your argument opening up a whole new market.

 

As for battery, I disagree.  the capacity of the battery is limiting the device, and increasing the size is not an adequate trade off.  Weight also has to be considered.  The Mini is a winner because battery capacity is now reached a point that 8" can be light enough to hold with one hand.   Power storage (and possibly bio-charging) advancements will drive improvements of the phone, not the form factor, as weight is king in mobile computing, and battery drives weight.

 

You state that increasing the performance envelope of the iPhone platform would unleash possibilities not currently there.  I would posit, we are not utilizing the current power curve effectively.  I don't disagree that more power plus more GPU would unleash greater capabilities, but I would also posit that there are other gating factors (bandwidth) that would limit the value of more local compute.

 

You are assuming that there is some limitation of the XxY size of the screen that is limiting innovation between a 4" diag and an 8" diag, by piling on performance above what is already there,  but you can't imagine what those innovations would be, and in another thread, you think this would be a 'killer app' for college and business.   When in fact, the growth curve is in delivering less costly device to billions in 2nd and 3rd world countries, to elementary schools.

 

Finally, you are basically saying no one in Apple is looking at these possibilities.  My guess is that they are, but the 'smart' move (you may consider it stupid), is to limit SKUs and form factors, until there is a dramatic risk (7" tablets establishing a price point under the umbrella), or dramatic technological breakthrough, (IGZO able to scale to square miles of glass per year for the same or lower price point as current displays).   

 

I do welcome your thoughts here... it's clarifying that you are not looking at this as  a 'I need 4.8" phone because I'm special' as many people on this board tend to respond.

Edited by TheOtherGeoff - 1/4/13 at 9:34am

 

I don't know if this is personal to me or if you are just railing at the whole world here, but I don't get your remarks either.  

 

I was just trying to get across my personal enthusiasm for the idea of a blended device.  My reasoning on the phone in the tablet thing is that (like a lot of people nowadays) I don't get many personal phone calls.  I literally get one every month or two. All I'm saying is that I would be okay with using just the iPad (because of the monetary huge savings), and using speaker phone for the occasional time I get a call.  

Sorry, GS3 is 4.8 and almost all my apps show much more than their equivalent in iphone 4 (even the home screen, I have 7x5 + the dock). I agree the tablets are not catching up but the bigger phones are good. I don't know about phablets though.

Can talk only with iphone/ipad/mac users. I would expect when somebody requests for phone feature it will be to anybody who has a phone connection.

 

True. Sorry for that mistake.

 

 

This isn't about car's analogies.

 

I addressed my points on my earlier post, and you haven't provided "evidence" of nothing.

First of all, you are completely ignoring the "new" and "unknown factor", just like people did with the first iPhone and iPad. (the new type of app interface, for example).

 

You don't see anyone wanting a phone bigger than 4.5"? Are you blind? 80 million people, per quarter, are willing to have inferior phones on every single department JUST to have a screen that's 4.5"+ (Razr, S3, note, One, Xperia, you name it) even if they pay almost the same. How many millions would want a bigger screen (bigger than 4") but aren't willing willing to lose performance/build quality/ecosystem for it so they keep buying iPhones? 5 million per quarter? 10? That's almost 100 million potential buyers for this "iPhoneX" each quarter!!! Are you insane?

 

You are just too limited. You see the iPhoneX just as a bigger phone, just like some people saw the iPad as a big iPod.

Learn... It's much more than that.

 

For 100 million people per quarter, this isn't a big "iPhone", it's "the best computer one can buy, that's also a phone". Samsung and others make "huge phones" that lose to the iPhone on every metric, so they are not worth it for anyone with at least two brain cells working properly, but an iPhone X? THINK! 

 

Again, please, read my post about the Note vs iPhone vs iPhoneX.

Every 4.5+ phone is a phablet, and they are Apple's competition right now. In case you haven't noticed, together they sell a lot and if you ask people "why not the superior iPhone?", the first point will be about screen size. Isn't the 4.7" one X a phablet? wasn't the original note a phablet? isn't the s3 a phablet? etc. Please, let's not let stupid ads define a name for this size category for us and decide the "right" dimension for what's a tablet or "just" a huge phone.

 

Piling on.... old thinking to me is using a phone in a single modality (audio only).    iPhone's are a multi-modal device.   Talk and surf (not while walking, at least not well) in a connected world is the norm.

 

iPads are perfectly capable of multi-modal phone calls.   The limiting factor now appears to be carriers, and/or the ubuiquity of multiMbit/sec WiFi.

Where did you get that definition? Tablets are also considered mobile devices. Even laptops are considered that.

So basically Apple needs to make a larger iPhone because everyone else is doing it and nervous Nellie investors are worried that Apple will lose market share if they don't. So I guess they don't want Apple to innovate but just copy what everyone else is doing.

These next couple weeks are going to be touch for Apple stock. Heck its already down 16+ these past two days while Google is way up. All the buzz will be around CES and we'll get conflicting reports on earnings - some analysts will claim Apple's going to have a great quarter others will say they aren't.

It is silly to think everybody has the same kind of requirements. For eg. I rarely use the phone (may by 5% of my use is phone, the rest is PDA use). So bigger screens are good for reading, emailing, browsing, etc. Recently heard from a friend who has all apple stuff that she is considering note 2 (and I was surprised) and will use bluetooth for phone (which she uses quite a lot).

I will just answer your well thought (Thank you, some people here really can't have a decent discussion) post, then it may take a while for me to answer again today (train).

 

To put it simply, I do not care if someone is Anti-Apple or not, as long as they can justify that properly.

 

What you are missing (a big elephant) is:

 

This isn't about battery, screen, power, ecosystem and dev tools, build quality. That won't do nothing great.

 

This is about: The better battery life of every phone + the best screen on a phone that is suitable for cad, excel, multimedia, etc. + the most powerful handheld computer ever created + the right ecosystem and tools to take advantage of that ------ On a single device.

 

I totally believe that Apple is the only one able to create this new product that can create its own category. No current phone can do what this "iPhoneX" can, no device opens so many doors.

 

It's a better phone, but much more than that, more than any device.

 

I hope Apple takes a risk, like they did, like Steve did even if this is proven wrong and a flop. That's Apple. (besides, what can happen that's bad?).

To elaborate:

"Apple's next iPhone, dubbed iPhone 5S or iPhone 6, could be available in three different screen sizes, with up to eight different colour options, an analyst has predicted.

White expects that the iPhone 6 will launch in May or June of this year, and will follow the iPod touch's example by introducing up to eight new colour options.

White also predicts that the iPad will be available in multiple colours in the future.

This [multiple screen size baloney] eventually opens up the possibility for a lower-priced iPhone (i.e., iPhone mini) with a smaller screen size that could allow Apple to further penetrate markets such as China and open up opportunities in India."

http://news.idg.no/cw/art.cfm?id=2EBAF450-EC6F-5EBD-B881C5B5545EF061

I was thinking about filing this under "analysts' guesses" but I think I'm going to skip a step and just go with 🐮💩.

Apple went through a whole thing explaining the screen size:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=dlB8wIEPzQM#t=375s

"What is the design centre for a phone? It's your hand. A phone should feel great in your hand and be easy to use with your thumb."

It's a typical analyst response that Apple should do what everyone else in the market does - make a netbook, make a TV, make a model of device to suit everyone alive - but the people at Apple do what they feel is right. The best setup is really to do very few things really well that you don't have to make adjustments for everyone. That's why Apple products will continue to stand alone from the pile while analysts watch the pile grow and assume it's the right thing to do.

I don't see them offering more colours in the premium devices because they have to allow for the distribution of demand. I don't see them offering a bigger iPhone because people's hands aren't getting bigger and those with big hands will have no trouble using a 4" iPhone. I don't see them offering an iPhone Mini because it would drive people to the smaller model like the iPad - their strategy is to offer the old model at a lower price and it works well for the iPhone. I don't think it will be the iPhone 6 and I don't think it will launch in May or June.

I'm not sure what we will see in the incoming months. The series 6 Rogue GPU will arrive this month but the dual and quad-core versions don't arrive until June so I'd expect the iOS device updates at the end of the year. Haswell is April-June so I'd say the MBP will get the first update as soon as Haswell becomes available and hopefully the entry rMBP can replace the top MBP model in price.

Then the Mini, Pro and iMac can get their updates at WWDC. iPad and iPhone around September with quad-core Rogue 6 - OpenCL support and OpenGL ES 3. Hopefully soon they'll be able to port full desktop games to mobile without changing much code.

There is a market for this device.  There are many people who wants a tablet but do not want to pay the high price for a tablet.  The smartphones are subsidized.  This is why Samsung was able to make Note 2 such success because the price was subsidized. 
 

Wow, what an inane view on the subject. Bigger is better.

A 32" HDTV has the same number of pixels as a 60" HDTV so all they are doing is spacing the pixels out and reducing PPI and therefore picture quality.

So why is a bigger TV better? If you need a bigger TV because you have a big room, sit closer. If you need a bigger TV because you have poor eyesight you won't appreciate the HD quality. The ONLY reason TVs are getting bigger and bigger is so people can feel more important than their friends.

 

Same with phones. You think you need a bigger screen because the neanderthal part of your brain thinks it'll automatically make it a better thing.

What exactly do you need that slightly larger screen for?

 

They'll have to start breeding people with longer thumbs to operate these ridiculous devices.

Currently, Samsung are selling a phone designed for 1 person. Most of you won't know him.

"The Hitcher" from The Mighty Boosh.

 

I got to handle on of those big screen phones last night. The one in the photo I believe. The screen is great, but just waaay to big for a phone when I held it. However the guy who had it wanted something that was not a full tablet but also a phone.. he got what he wanted from the sound of it. I don't think Apple will do this.

Are you serious?  My TV is situated around 18 feet away from my sofa.  Are you saying I should use a 32" TV and move my sofa ten feet forward?  The reason TV's are getting bigger is because that is what people want, and often it is for practical reasons.  Same with phones.  Its really not that hard to understand.  I don't buy things to make me feel better, I buy things I want and/or need and would like those things to fit my requirements as closely as possible.  And none of those requirements are to make me feel more important to my friends.

Your quote... faster horse vs car...  You quoted me in that response.  It was where you pulled me in.

 

no, I'm not.  and your arguments for that are orthogonal from your iPhone vs Note vs iPhoneX

You need to break these down into 2 different arguments

1) people are buying big phones

2) there is an unimaginable capability if we put a supercomputer with infinitely fast GPUs, an amazing battery, and a superior visual presentation.

 

For 1), you numbers don't factor.  120M devices sold last year (PCs, tablets, smart phones), yet you state that 320Million people bought 4.5"+ _phones_?

please refactor and base on attributable fact.

 

For 2), I agree.  I'm ignoring that.  I also stated that I believe Apple is not.  But, because they aren't selling one now doesn't mean they are stupid.  Until they find  'one' killer app for that disruption in the power curve, they can't 'sell' it, and if they can't sell 'it' (internally, or to developers), it won't sell.  It's chicken/egg.  'Unknown' equals 'Risk' in business.  You can't sell 'unknown' unless you have one representative function to make it known (why put accelerometers on a phone? well now there are many reasons... back then it was both games and coupled with GPS, accurate location.  Key Apps, a couple games, and 'Find my iPhone')

 

 

Your argument about my insanity will hold more water when you base your 100Million/qtr' buyers of a larger form factor phone in fact, and not in some phatasmagorical number that 80 million 4.5" or larger phones are being bought because they are larger than an iPhone.

 

I do think you are 

a) overstating the number

b) misunderstanding why big phones sell.

 - carriers promote them and sheeple buy them

 - people buy their smartphones to be seen, not used (look at internet utilization of smartphones)

 - all things being equal (price, primary function), people buy perceived value ('wow' big, I may use that some day)

c) not understanding the primary market for phone growth in the next 3 years

- people moving off of feature phones (48% of mobile phones are still 'not smart')

- people moving off their first Android Phone (that phone sucked...)

- people replacing obsolete iPhone 3GS and 4 phones (same ecosystem)

 

 

You need to retool your argument back to the horse vs cars... e.g.  What will Apple do if Samsung can make a phone that is better than the iPhone 5(6) and comes with a killer app?  I'll buy that.

 

Because all the data that I'm seeing from you is made up, and conjecting a business model based on this data and the paranoia that someone will build a better mobile device before Apple will and apple will not recover, and the rationalle to throw caution to the wind is everything and build a best of breed mobile computing platform because there is an unknown killer app that will use it and therefore unlimited market for it.  

 

and I'm the one  being called 'insane'? ;-)

 

As far as smartphones are concerned... even 20-30 million units a year isn't considered a success by Apple.

If we see some big ass phone from Apple this year then I really do fear for the company. If they were that concerned about losing sales because of the size of the iPhone, they would have made the iPhone bigger (wider, not just taller).

We got 7" tablets because other companies knew the only way to compete with iPad was on price, and they could make a 7" cheap enough to maybe pull some people away from iPad. With phones these OEM's are basically slaves to the carriers and the carriers wanted to push LTE. That caused a need for big ass batteries which in turn caused a need for bigger phones. Of course they weren't going to market it that way so it was marketed as new and hip and innovative and better than phones with smaller screens. I don't want Apple to start following what everyone else is doing. I want them to do their own thing.

I know a lot of people that have the 4.7" phones and it doesn't seem to be a problem. It might be if they keep trying to get larger.


I don't hold my phone to my face anymore when making or taking calls, if that's what you mean "hold it like a phone". I've been using Bluetooth headphones for a couple years now. I find it's a lot more comfortable than holding a brick to my face, however small and light it may be, and it sounds a lot better too. Currently, my "brick" is an iPhone 4.


I wonder to what degree that is true. I know quite a few people that make plenty of calls with smart phones. I see this of iPhone and Android users.

 

I have a hunch that Apple deal with the carriers limit it to only one iPhone model.  Carriers do not like to make it very general because the iPhone is subsidized more than the Android phones.  If Apple wants to sell two new models at the same time she may need to renegotiate the deal. 

Because I fucking want one!

Also... when I bought a bigger monitor for my desktop... I didn't do it so I could sit further from the screen. I just wanted a bigger screen.

Let me want that!

iPad mini, and bigger screen having iPhone 5.

 

You can see by your self the downside of having multiple size and resolution when come to create Apps. With the iPad Mini it was easy to accommodate existing Apps, but on a 4in and 5in screen it become a nightmare of platforms fragmentation like it is on Android where majority of Androids Apps doesn't use well the screen area on Phablet and Tablet.

 

So if it diminishes usability, diminishes quality, increases weight, increases physical size… you want one. Because you want one. 

 

Good thing Apple doesn't operate on the "make it because make it" philosophy.

As a 'light' voice user on my iPhone, I'd be first in line for a Retina mini with phone capabilities. Either with headphones, bluetooth or speaker, I'd be glad to have a mini with me at all times and don't need or want 2 devices.

What's really funny is all the iPhone detractors who criticized the original iPhone when it came out, as being too big - with comments like "who on earth is going to hold something that big up to their ear?" Well, back at ya!

 

So you're saying everyone is always wrong, regardless of the size. That's an interesting viewpoint, in that it's just outright wrong.