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Rumor: Fifth-gen iPad, second-gen iPad mini to debut in March

post #1 of 256
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Apple's iPad lineup is now on a twice-a-year refresh cycle, according to a new rumor, which pegs both the full-size iPad and iPad mini as due for updates in March.

Brian White of Topeka Capital Markets said his checks with industry sources at this week's CES event in Las Vegas, Nev., indicated both the fifth-generation iPad and second-generation iPad mini will debut this March, just five months after the last update was announced.

White was told that the new "iPad 5" will be lighter and thinner than the fourth-generation model Apple released late last year. The updated model features a new A6X processor and Apple's smaller Lightning chip but maintained the same design as the third-generation iPad released last March.

As for the iPad mini, White said the second-generation device is expected to have the same form factor. A new model would likely just have upgraded components, such as a faster chip.

iPads


No mention was made of a potential high-resolution Retina display in a new iPad mini. One report from last month claimed Apple was focused on boosting the resolution of the next-generation iPad mini.

Though many industry insiders attend CES, Apple does not have an official presence at the annual event. White did not indicate the source of his information aside from unnamed "checks" at the show.

White also reported last week that Apple is expected to debut new iPhones this summer in more sizes and colors, expanding the lineup from the current black and white options. He expects the new iPhones to debut in the May-June timeframe, which would be earlier than the last two years.
post #2 of 256
I'm not sure of these rumours at all.

Does it really make sense to bring out a new version of a product when the previous version still has six months left on the warranty? Customers with a defective product that has to be replaced will end up with the next generation of the product for free.

Seems weird to me.
post #3 of 256
Perhaps we'll see the iPad Mini upgraded with an A6 processor in March, and then a Retina Display in October. I'm guessing the next 9.7" iPad gets thinner and lighter.
post #4 of 256
They won't boost screen res on the Mini just yet, buyers of the first one would be very unhappy about it. I think they'll wait until november.
post #5 of 256

This just makes no sense.
 

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post #6 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post

They won't boost screen res on the Mini just yet, buyers of the first one would be very unhappy about it. I think they'll wait until november.

Not sure. I, personally would be very happy about it. I will give my iPad Mini to my son, or sell it, or keep it in the car,  and will be a happy owner of a new one.

post #7 of 256

I don't like this kind of 6-month cycles at all. Makes customers delay purchases and hurt resale values, which in turns cheapen the brand. Hope it's not happening. 

post #8 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

This just makes no sense.
 

 

If Apple goes to faster release cycles, they get criticized for "obsoleting" products too quickly. If they only release once a year, they get criticized for going too long between updates. I don't see that they need to be slaves to the calendar. If they can release a new product with significant enhancements, they should do so when they are ready to do it.

post #9 of 256

I'm hoping this is true - I'm ready to pass my iPad 3 down to the kids and get the next iPad - but I'll wait to buy, even if it's November.  Was really hoping for the iPad 5 to follow the design of the mini, though.  Not the bezels but the thinner, lighter form.

 

Incidentally, my bonus is in March.  Coincidence?  I don't think so...  ;-)

post #10 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Does it really make sense to bring out a new version of a product when the previous version still has six months left on the warranty? Customers with a defective product that has to be replaced will end up with the next generation of the product for free.

Seems weird to me.

 

It's not weird if you've got competitors and if you have indications or a sense they could be gaining on you in some way. You keep pushing the envelope forward. The warranty on the previously sold models it irrelevant. Some of the people who bought those will be upset. Sure. There's always that. But the simple fact is those people got what they paid for. This is the hi-tech business...it is ALWAYS moving forward.

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post #11 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by drobforever View Post

I don't like this kind of 6-month cycles at all. Makes customers delay purchases and hurt resale values, which in turns cheapen the brand. Hope it's not happening. 

 

Customers delay purchases now, waiting for the next model. Resale value isn't Apple's concern, and it ought not be. None of these things lead to cheapening the brand as long as they maintain the quality of the brand. What would cheapen the brand is a "cheap" iPhone to sell in "developing markets".

post #12 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by KPOM View Post

I'm guessing the next 9.7" iPad gets thinner and lighter.

 

That's what I'm hoping for. After playing with the mini and the regular iPad, the regular one feels like a brick. Shave a couple pounds off that thing and that's what I'll probably get.

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post #13 of 256
I have no idea of the reasoning here. They have chosen the A5 for the iPad mini. They could move to the A6 in March but to what end? What's the reason for such a simple change? The iPad (4) was a move to the smaller lithography and the Lightning connector. That made sense.

Looking at the Tegra 4 slides I don't think Apple has anything to fear that would require upgrades every 6 months. Is it possible they could be moving their ASIC designs that quickly? Will Rogue 6 even be available in quantity by in the Spring?

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post #14 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

 

If Apple goes to faster release cycles, they get criticized for "obsoleting" products too quickly. If they only release once a year, they get criticized for going too long between updates. I don't see that they need to be slaves to the calendar. If they can release a new product with significant enhancements, they should do so when they are ready to do it.


I'm all for a quicker iPhone update... but not in the traditional sense. If Apple had three different screen sizes... 3.5, 4, and say 4.5, then update each once a year but at different times.

 

... but the iPad... really?! What is there about the iPad that could make such a significant difference at this time of year? There just doesn't seem to be anything gained imo.

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post #15 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Customers delay purchases now, waiting for the next model. Resale value isn't Apple's concern, and it ought not be.

 

That's exactly right. In fact it isn't the speed of the product refreshes that affects re-sale value anyway, it is the degree of improvement from one version to the next. As soon as the new one is out the older one is worth less to (at least) the degree to which the new one is an improvement. If anything, longer release cycles might make resale values worse, because another factor in re-sale is how long the previous owner has owned and used the device (e.g., how many miles it has on it.)

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post #16 of 256
Could be a White lie.
post #17 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


I'm all for a quicker iPhone update... but not in the traditional sense. If Apple had three different screen sizes... 3.5, 4, and say 4.5, then update each once a year but at different times.

... but the iPad... really?! What is there about the iPad that could make such a significant difference at this time of year? There just doesn't seem to be anything gained imo.

If they follow their iPad mini pattern a larger iPhone-like* device would have a 4.904" display. That would allow them to use the 264 PPI display panels already utilized in the iPad (4) whilst maintaining the same resolution of the iPhone 5.



* Uses the same iPhone and iPod Touch apps in the same way the iPad and iPad mini use the same apps.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #18 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


I'm all for a quicker iPhone update... but not in the traditional sense. If Apple had three different screen sizes... 3.5, 4, and say 4.5, then update each once a year but at different times.

 

... but the iPad... really?! What is there about the iPad that could make such a significant difference at this time of year? There just doesn't seem to be anything gained imo.

 

 

I agree that it doesn't make a lot of sense based on the rumor - I'd think there must be a redesign on the iPad along with retina on the Mini for there to be an upgrade this soon.  But wouldn't we be seeing leaks already, anyway?  Especially for a redesign.

post #19 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenbf View Post


I agree that it doesn't make a lot of sense based on the rumor - I'd think there must be a redesign on the iPad along with retina on the Mini for there to be an upgrade this soon.  But wouldn't we be seeing leaks already, anyway?  Especially for a redesign.

Being "this soon" is what makes me think that Retina won't be possible with the Mini. We only got Retina on the iPad less than a year ago. 2048x1536 is a crazy high resolution that we were all blown away by and yet 6 months later people are expecting that same resolution with a much higher pixel density in less than half the volume with a 10 hour battery but at a fraction of the cost? That seems crazy to me. Not until we get Rogue 6 does it even seem feasible.

Then consider that Apple has chosen to use the A5 in the iPad mini just as they do with the iPod Touch. It's a chip that's a year behind Apple's flagship devices. Why start with that just to multiple upgrades in a short timeframe?

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #20 of 256
Apple is going to announce the products they are going to announce whenever they are going to announce them.
post #21 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


If they follow their iPad mini pattern a larger iPhone-like* device would have a 4.904" display. That would allow them to use the 264 PPI display panels already utilized in the iPad (4) whilst maintaining the same resolution of the iPhone 5.



* Uses the same iPhone and iPod Touch apps in the same way the iPad and iPad mini use the same apps.

 

A 4.904" device with the Ive touch sounds fine to me.

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post #22 of 256
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Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Could be a White lie.

Or a multi-colored one. I see this just as marketing. A way of keeping the iPad in the news, but with very little significant change. Perhaps multi colour. We have seen it before, but to me its a 'shrug'. Faster processor is always good but it really isn't that significant for most people. I use an original iPad and it still works a treat for the important stuff. I also use an iPad mini and I have a hard time faulting it. Even the resolution is fine. I really do not believe the average Joe public is complaining about the screen and I can't see Apple updating the res until next year at the earliest. 

 

So call it what you will but I imagine it will be nothing more than an annual refresh in addition to an annual upgrade.

post #23 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

I'm not sure of these rumours at all.

Does it really make sense to bring out a new version of a product when the previous version still has six months left on the warranty? Customers with a defective product that has to be replaced will end up with the next generation of the product for free.

Seems weird to me.

 

Actually this does make sense. This will allow Apple to stay ahead of any competition with a continually fresh lineup. What happened to the iPhone was that Apple did not stay far enough ahead of the competition and other players were able to capitalize on this. I think Apple with the iPad just like the iPod wants to snuff everyone out to an 80% to 20% market share, if not greater. 

post #24 of 256
Sometimes I wonder if these analysts even think.

The only reason Apple updated the iPad twice last year is because they wanted everything to be on the Lightning connector.

There is no reason to update it again so soon when they have not even released it globally to all the different countries.

There really needs to be a system in place to penalize analysts for talking out of their rear ends.

Having said that, I am sure there will be an update to the iPad and iPad Mini this year (No Sh*t Sherlock) and the iPad Mini update will have a retina display (Another NSS moment).
post #25 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

A 4.904" device with the Ive touch sounds fine to me.

Seems too big to me but if the Galaxy Note seems quite popular in many cultures.




PS: didn't run the numbers for the 3:2 960x640 version but it would be a little smaller. I assume Apple will be deprecating the older aspect ratio.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #26 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

 

Actually this does make sense. This will allow Apple to stay ahead of any competition with a continually fresh lineup. What happened to the iPhone was that Apple did not stay far enough ahead of the competition and other players were able to capitalize on this. I think Apple with the iPad just like the iPod wants to snuff everyone out to an 80% to 20% market share, if not greater. 


... but wouldn't you agree that it would have to be a significant upgrade to make any sense what so ever.

 

Hell... the upgrade from the 3 to the 4 didn't make much sense... who could tell the difference. They might as well have not done it and then a significant upgrade at this time would make a lot of sense.

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post #27 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

I'm not sure of these rumours at all.

Does it really make sense to bring out a new version of a product when the previous version still has six months left on the warranty? Customers with a defective product that has to be replaced will end up with the next generation of the product for free.

Seems weird to me.

Not how it works. Apples service stock is separate. A warranty swap is like for like even if you are paying for an out of warranty swap. Because they keep making units for service. Only on very rare occassions do they swap up. But it has to be very particular times and is generally due to a supply issue not the reason for the swap, customer nagging etc. .

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post #28 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post

They won't boost screen res on the Mini just yet, buyers of the first one would be very unhappy about it. I think they'll wait until november.

They don't give a dogs poo about the buyers being unhappy. They want do it just yet because its unlikely they have the tech to make such an upgrade feasible. They would need one kind of shift in battery hardware, way more efficient software or maybe both.

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post #29 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Seems too big to me but if the Galaxy Note seems quite popular in many cultures.




PS: didn't run the numbers for the 3:2 960x640 version but it would be a little smaller. I assume Apple will be deprecating the older aspect ratio.

 

Actually, I'd much rather see an iPhone in the 4.5" range with a 3:2 aspect ratio than anything in the 4.9" range.

 

.... anyway... back to this iPad upgrade silliness.

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post #30 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


They don't give a dogs poo about the buyers being unhappy. They want do it just yet because its unlikely they have the tech to make such an upgrade feasible. They would need one kind of shift in battery hardware, way more efficient software or maybe both.

 

What about IGZO?  Isn't it rumored to be in the next iDevices and uses only a fraction of the power?  No need to have a radical new battery size if the components are using less power.  I'm just spitballing.

post #31 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Actually, I'd much rather see an iPhone in the 4.5" range with a 3:2 aspect ratio than anything in the 4.9" range.

I just ran the numbers for using the iPad (4)'s display PPI but with the resolution of the 3.5" iPhone 4S. The size comes out to 4.3717" inches. I'd say that's right in line with what you'd want. As most of us assumed years ago and as we saw with the Samsung trial Apple does a lot of prototypes. I'm sure they have all sorts of sizes and shapes to find the right fit. Still, I would expect Apple to want to move the 3:2 out of the system as soon as possible (a couple years) so that it's easier for them, developers, and ultimately makes a better app experience for customers.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #32 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by drobforever View Post

I don't like this kind of 6-month cycles at all. Makes customers delay purchases and hurt resale values, which in turns cheapen the brand. Hope it's not happening. 

Resell value is the last thing Apple is worrying about.

As for the six month cycle, this is a rumor. One that could prove false. In fact I think it will. I think Apple is shifting all iOS devices to release other or shortly after the new iOS launches and before holiday sales start (because they are huge holiday gift items). It makes more sense on several fronts. They get the increased sales, they can preview iOS at WWDC as it should be and give folks the summer to prep their stuff and so on. They were bitched at royally over that 16 month wait when they shifted the phone so they went for the short not the long shift this time.

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post #33 of 256
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Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

 

I don't see that they need to be slaves to the calendar. If they can release a new product with significant enhancements, they should do so when they are ready to do it.

 

Completely agree. Apple has been moving away from fixed release cycles for a while now, starting when they decided to pull out of MacWorld Expo's. I think they may try to target specific releases just before the holiday or school seasons, but otherwise, they'll release products when they can - as soon as they can.

Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #34 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenbf View Post

What about IGZO?  Isn't it rumored to be in the next iDevices and uses only a fraction of the power?  No need to have a radical new battery size if the components are using less power.  I'm just spitballing.

I don't think IGZO is enough. You also need to process all those pixels that get pushed to the display. This is where the next generation GPUs would have to play a role. Again I ask, will they be ready for the Spring? Will be IGZO be ready for the spring?

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #35 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

Or a multi-colored one. I see this just as marketing. A way of keeping the iPad in the news, .

More like White keeping himself in the news. It's classic analyst BS games. They latch onto the thing going around and have their made up sources etc. pump up the stock and so on. Then when it doesn't happen they makeup sources that speak of issues and delays and the stock is shorted and someone still makes money.

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post #36 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Apple is going to announce the products they are going to announce whenever they are going to announce them.

So these rumor sites are popular for no reason¿
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Could be a White lie.
Or a multi-colored one.

I was referring to Brian White of Topeka Capital Markets, hence the capital. But yes, I agree with your post.
post #37 of 256
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post
Customers with a defective product that has to be replaced will end up with the next generation of the product for free.

 

Since that doesn't happen now, ever, for any of their products, why would you assume it would happen in the future?


Originally Posted by shard View Post
The only reason Apple updated the iPad twice last year is because they wanted everything to be on the Lightning connector.

 

Really?

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post #38 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

Actually this does make sense. This will allow Apple to stay ahead of any competition with a continually fresh lineup. What happened to the iPhone was that Apple did not stay far enough ahead of the competition and other players were able to capitalize on this.

Not really. Apple lost phone market share because the other players sell cheap. The average buyer doesn't understand the diff between iOS and Android. What they understand is two phones that can text, email, web etc but one is $199 plus tax and the other is you pay the tax. That $200 savings is the killer. Not 'freshness'

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post #39 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I don't think IGZO is enough. You also need to process all those pixels that get pushed to the display. This is where the next generation GPUs would have to play a role. Again I ask, will they be ready for the Spring? Will be IGZO be ready for the spring?

 

Touche'

post #40 of 256

The Retina Mini will be price $100 higher than the current Mini so there won't be any buyer's remorse.

 

The iPad 4 was more of a iPad 3S. The next iPad will probably have the same specs as the last just with a new case design. Later this year it'll probably the speed bump once the new chips (A7X) are ready.

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