Rumor: Fifth-gen iPad, second-gen iPad mini to debut in March - Page 6

I don't know how mine and Anand's comments on it can make it any more clear so good luck with Apple shoehorning a 2048x1536 into the iPad mini and using an unmodified A6 to do the job.

 

Because a retina iPad Mini did not exist in October and there was no legacy iPad mini to drop to $299.

 

They do not lose in profit share because at my suggested price points the Retina iPad Mini costs more and the legacy mini has another 6 months worth of component price reductions.  Plus Apple is very good at upsell.  A 16GB iPad Mini for $249/$299 is a great deal but a lot of folks will buy the $399 iPad Mini retina instead...especially if the base retina comes with 32GB storage. 

 

If it were me I'd go:

 

16GB iPad Mini $249 WiFi Only

 

16GB iPad Mini Retina $399 WiFi/$539 4G

32GB iPad Mini Retina $499 WiFi/$629 4G

64GB iPad Mini Retina $599 WiFi/$729 4G

 

ASPs would go up, not down.

 

The fact that you refuse to read my comments does not give you the right to change them.  Where did I say unmodified here?  Nowhere.  Even so, I suspect that an unmodified A6 should be fast enough for most things but suffer at gaming.

 

And I have both benchmarks and Anand comments to show that the 543MP3 as a GPU is about as fast as the 543MP4.  

 

Stop being a prick.

I don't care if they purposely designed that way it's stupid. What's wrong with having user accounts where when you login with your Apple ID it brings up your personal home screen, wallpaper, apps, etc. This would be great for families that probably can't afford to buy every member of the family an iPad. You can do this on the Nexus 7/10 and I believe the Fire HD has something similar.

I know a number of people who didn't upgrade iOS specifically because of maps. I guarantee you outside of United States if people had a choice their default maps app would not be Apple's. And probably the same goes for for a fair number of people in the United States as well.

Then how come when I use non-Apple browsers it doesn't redirect me to a mobile or tablet version of a site? I only have this problem when using Safari.

You can do what's in those screenshots without jailbreaking your device?


So they create a crappy stock app to force you to have to pay for something better and that's good how exactly?

Maybe not always but I haven't come across anyone who likes the podcast app. Thankfully there are much better ones in the App Store. But I have to believe Apple designers can do much better than that app.

Do you think Apple should've put Siri on the 4th iPhone, only because it seemed to work ok on jailbroken iPhones - same hardware?

I understand that Apple doesn't sell it's hardware at cost. I get the premium for design, build quality, ecosystem, user experience etc. But does that really make a retina mini worth $200 more than the Nexus 7?

 

I don't know that there's anything wrong with it; Apple wants you to buy a device for each person.

 

I'm not sure about that.

 

The website reads the browser string and acts accordingly. Accordingly is just wrong half the time; mobile Safari has its own string, and apparently those don't?

 

Yeah! Just a day or two ago, I was able to swipe down a notification bar from the lock screen on a 5th gen iPod touch. If I have access to it again, I'll take a screenshot and show you. It came down from below the time bar with standard little nub (with the three horizontal lines), but the nub was translucent, like the above.

 

Didn't say anything about being good. I'm not against any improvements to any app, but that's the state of things right now.

 

Well, we have Ive to handle that now. If any changes are desired, iOS 7 should bring them.

Edited by Tallest Skil - 1/13/13 at 8:17am

A6X is a modified A6 with the faster memory bandwidth and all other changes that make it suitable to feasibly push over 3 million pixels to the display. As previously noted by myself and AnandTech this will not be feasible in a standard Apple ASIC designed for a a quart or less pixels and making the GPU faster will not solve the other issues.

AnandTech had an entire page in their review addressing the issues with Retina on the iPad mini. It simply can't be any more clear unless you don't understand all the parts involved are are choosing not to listen to reason. I get that you want this but that doesn't mean you have to will it into existent without consideration for reality, facts or physics.

• http://www.anandtech.com/show/6429/ipad-mini-review/5

Here is a segment of what I quoted last time...

I guess it would be nice to view weather from the lock screen but everything else would be too cluttered.

Apple should strive for simplicity and practicality.

There are more foundational changes Apple could make to iOS, but I guess more utilization of the notification center would be nice.

And the stocks app is fine. Be happy that now we actually have the option of downloading a better app from the App Store unlike 4 years ago when all that was available were web apps.

Apple should allow users to delete apps like the stocks and weather apps that they don't use. Or maybe Apple should get rid of both apps altogether and just keep the widgets.

I would hope, but what I really want is for Apple to make iOS more like OS X. Not sure when or if that will happen this time around.

I mostly agree. I agree Apple needs to make sure that it's simple and practical. I oft seen comments that because some developers wrote a jailbreak hack/app to do some function that Apple should be able to add it too, but that is line of reasoning is predicated on a false notion that Apple hasn't done it because they haven't figured out how or don't think they could figure out how instead of for other objections.

I think we are used to the left/right swipe in iOS that they could put the weather as a swipe of the clock in the lock screen. If not, they could put some subtle left/right arrows or those top/bottom bars as seen on the camera to indicate the action. If they do that then a 3rd (or more) swipe window could be added for stocks. The most complex the less likely I think it will be.

I'm not a big fan of Notification Center. I use it so rarely so it's just filled with old notifications. Be nice to have some Fast Access Settings in there.

As for deleting system apps that simply won't happen but I would like the option to disable the icon from showing up on the Home Screen but most important would be to change the default app to a 3rd-party option. I think this will come eventually as iOS evolves but I'm really not expecting it soon.


Three other things 'I' would like are:

• Setting a passcode lock for Settings
• Having the hard shutdown of the device actual force a reboot so that a thief can't simply turn off the device to bypass Find My iPhone. The way to turn off the device would be the slider but that could be locked with the system passcode.
• A non-intuitive, circular finger motion to change the brightness of the display quickly from the lock screen without the rigamarole of going through setting when entering a dark area with a bright iPhone or the difficultly trying to navigate to the proper settings when entering a bright area with a dimmed display. My solution is to do a circular sweep with a finger on the lock screen. Right for bright, left for dim.

That fact does not interest or concern at Apple at all. People buying products. Oh No.

 

You write this as if 3M pixels is such a huge deal when the 45nm A5X can handle it.  Not as well as the A6X but well enough.  At no point did they say that the 554MP2 or the 543MP3 could not handle the resolution if you provided the 128bit wide memory bandwidth.

 

A 32nm A6 is 95mm^2.  The A6X is 123mm^2.  Each A6X GPU core is 8.72mm^2 while the A6 GPU cores are 5.4mm^2 and so the GPUs occupy about double the space on the A6X as on the A6 BUT if you drop back to the 554MP2 you drop two of those cores and you're back around 100-110mm^2...i.e. not THAT much bigger than a stock A6.

 

If you use the A5 panel the backlight may not be as big an issue as the iPad 3...AND Apple lists a 10 hour battery life for the mini but the mini lasts around 13 hours in battery tests.  That's 30% battery margin.  Note that the iPad 2 only gets 9.8 hours of battery life.

 

A 2013 iPad Mini Retina with 10 hours battery life is certainly possible with just the technology shown thus far.  Rogue is NOT required. 

 

Besides, IF you bothered reading my original post you would have seen that I had said that the current iPad Mini updated to A6 in spring is a worthwhile spec bump. Even without retina a stock A6 is a HUGE update for buyers.  From a gaming perspective it would be on par with the iPad 4 with the GPU speed increase and because of the additional RAM it would be far more future proof than the current mini.

 

A spring update to the A6 would give make the iPad Mini 2 among the first A15 class 7" tablets.

 

A fall update with iPad Mini Retina with a 28nm A6X/554MP2 would slam the door on Android for 2013 XMas.

 

But I can also see just a straight jump to retina in the fall but the iPad mini is currently a lot like the iPad 3 was.  Stopgap and ripe for faster updates:

 

Spring 2013 - A6 update

Fall 2013 - A6X/554MP2 Retina update  (iPad 3_ performance) - 9.8 hours battery life

 

2014 - A6X/Rogue (iPad 4 performance)

 

The mini would remain about six months to a year behind the iPad in performance using the last gen chip.  The iPad would get the A7X in fall 2013.

I think there is something wrong with it if it could be easily accomplished by software and not forcing people to spend hundreds of dollars on extra devices.

The user agent is telling the server it's Safari mobile (iPhone or iPad). Some people prefer mobile versions of websites. I don't. Perhaps this was implemented by Apple because of the lack of flash. A mobile site wasn't going to give you an error message about needing to install Adobe Flash.

Hopefully with Ive and Federighi that won't be the state too much longer.


I hope so. Doesn't have to be a major overhaul but perception can often become reality and right now the perception in the media is that iOS is stale/dated, that Android has surpassed it and Windows 8 is new and fresh. I think Apple needs to do something to keep that perception from becoming reality in consumer's mind. Obviously Cook recognizes if hence the re-org.

I agree some of that is on the busy side. But it's just an idea of things Apple could do. Right now the lock screen doesn't do much of anything.

These are all really, really good ideas. Especially Passcode Lock for Power Down. It's painful knowing that Find My iPhone is immediately rendered useless if a thief simply shuts off the device.

I'm not completely sure that is possible but I do feel I spent a lot of trying conceiving of a method that would allow for the device to be powered down if needed, and to be hard booted if the touchscreen was not working properly. Since you can set any OS to restart rather than simply shutdown I am assuming that could also be triggered as a hard restart that didn't allow for a hard shutdown, even if was from additional HW. If anyone has anything that can disprove, better, or clarify my conception I'd appreciate the feedback.

Selling more devices is a much better idea. No one is forcing you to do anything.

 

Uh, no. People that buy Android devices are not motivated by such important technical considerations. Price alone, combined with ignorance, result in every purchase of every Android device.

 

Heh...$250 more...since the Nexus 7 is $250 for 32GB and my pricing has it at $499. Apple could make the base model 32GB to offset this.  It would be worth it to me but I'm moderately price insensitive.

 

Folks that are price sensitive would be looking at the difference between $199 and $249/$299.  Yah, Apple's worth that price premium.  $149 and $249/$299?  Apple is still worth the premium but it's a harder call.

 

$99 vs $249/$299?  I think that as apps become more and more powerful, especially games, these tablets are going to be the netbooks of the tablet world.  Cheap but poor performing even though they are as powerful as 2-3 year old premium tablets.  

 

The original Kindle Fire I can see hitting $99 by XMas 2013.  I'd rather get a Nexus 7 for $150 which is what they probably will be end of 2013.

 

Doesn't matter that much...just stick it in a box that is covered in metal in a bad coverage area until it runs out of battery.  Even if the box isn't a perfect shield the probability is that the phone will be trying very hard to get a good signal and run itself out of battery reasonably quickly.  A plastic tupperware box and few layers of aluminum foil should work in a pinch.

 

To test the effectiveness of your box, put your own phone inside and call it.

 

Or get some pro made faraday bags.

 

http://edecdf.com/products.php?iProdId=1

 

Pricey at $60: http://www.amazon.com/Black-Hole-Faraday-Bag-Isolation/dp/B0091WILY0

 

http://techprotectbag.com/products-page/product-category/8x8-small

 

-40dB should be good enough for $6.  Stick in bag, toss in metal locker somewhere, come back in a day.

Or put Restrictions into effect, disallowing Account Changes to iOS.

I think Apple considers the iPad, especially the iPad Mini, to be appliance computers... To me that means that each person will have his own individual iPad -- and possibly a few extras for the kitchen, family room, guests, etc.

In our household of 2 adults and 3 teenagers, we have 9 iPads. When the boys have friends over, they will often borrow an iPad to play multiplayer games -- most iPads are WIFi only.

The individual iPads are used for group reading -- sometimes a guest will participate using one of the spare iPads.

Each grandkid uses his individual iPad for homework preparation (Pages), research (Safari, Surfing), study (Spanish, Culinary, Art, History, Astronomy, etc. specialty apps), drill and practice... My youngest grandson learned to tell time (analog clock) with his iPad and brought his reading skill from below to above grade level.

My granddaughter often uses the spares for sleepovers -- there are lots of "girl" apps -- and they use the cameras to capture video and make movies. Actually, it's quite amazing what you can do with a few iPhone and/or iPad cameras -- two camera shots, multicam, story boarding.

When the grandkids drive up to Canada with their father, we load each iPad with 3-5 different movies, so 9-15 different movies total. Then, during the long drives, they watch and swap... Are we there, yet?

Also, I believe that the iPad Mini will evolve to be, for many, an alternative to an iPhone -- with no contract cell voice, messaging and data. The young/active set will, likely have both a mini and an iPhone -- and grab whichever is most convenient for where they are going: hiking, iPhone; movies, iPad.


If the three grandkids had to share a single iPad, it would be a less useful and rewarding experience -- and just another thing to fight over...

Finally, especially with children, I believe that it is character building -- when each has the pride and responsibility to own and care for his "individual" appliance computer... It's a personal thing!

Those are some great ideas. One of the things I think is also important is not just fast access to settings but fast access to app relevant settings while you're in the app.

Maybe if Apple added a tray either in notification center or as part of the multitasking manager for settings. And then had the tray bring up useful settings based on the app that you're in.

Something like that would help. But I really like your idea of adding some touch gestures to adjust some settings.

Another quick gripe. Why is the orientation lock hidden in the multitasking manager next to rarely used iTunes controls? These are the complexities Forstall tacked-on on top of the general OS that make no sense.

Not necessarily so. When I had my 3Gs, it needed some warranty work done. I had about 2 months left on warranty. The 4 was already out. When I sent my phone to Cupertino, it was found to be unrepairable. They returned a new (not re-furbed) 3Gs to me, not a 4.

Displaying notifications is something. I like the lock screen simple and it's nice that I can view Facebook notifications or text messages I may have missed all on the lock screen.

What else would be needed? Weather would be nice if its added tastefully as SolipsmX's example, but widgets or anything else would be unnecessary for the lock screen.

As far as the home screen. If Apple let you adjust the icon grid like on OS X that would be a nice upgrade so that every iPhone doesn't look the same.

More on multi-user iPad...

I wanted to determine the cost in storage for each user on an iPad -- to see if multi-user is even feasible.

I don't have a jail-broken iPad, so the best way I could come up with is to determine the size of the never used "Guest User" on an IMac...

It shows 10 MB -- so, let's assume 10 MB per user as a starting point.

We can assume that apps are in a common Applications Folder as on the Mac -- and each user would have a sym-link to the shared apps he was authorized to use.

Each user would need additional storage for things like app settings, preferences, histories, game attainments, logs, etc. of the shared apps.

Likely, users would not want share Documents, Contacts, Schedules, Lists, Calendars, Texts, Photos, Music, Videos, Mail, Camera Rolls, Tweets, etc. -- and space requirements could add up quickly.

Let's assume that each user would require at least 3 GB of private storage.

So, it's likely doable for 2-3 users on a 32-64 GB iPad.


Complicating things:

Likely, more total apps (and storage) would be required to satisfy the needs of several users -- than for a single user.

IDK, if the apps as currently packaged are shareable -- or assume that they are running in a single-user environment... This includes system apps

I suspect that, at best, the apps would need to be recompiled... At worst reprogrammed.


Where are the trade-offs between multiple, less-expensive, individual iPads vs a single, more-expensive, shared iPad?


If the iPad Mini evolves to become a smartphone alternative -- I think the individual concept trumps the shared concept.


Finally... Would you share your iPad?

Selling more devices is a much better idea? Bullshit. And yes I know no one is forcing me to do anything. I just think it would be a nice option to have. I don't know what's so radical about it; Windows computers have it, other tablets offer it. I think it's a great idea for families.

Any one have or use a Nexus 7? How does that device implement multiple user accounts?

I think multi user accounts or even the option for having a guest user would be nice for the iPad.

First 3GB seems excessively high.

Second, even assuming 3GB then you can support a few users on even a 16GB iPad.

And that's ignoring iCloud space.

Third, even assuming you HAD to upgrade to 32 GB price delta is a fraction of buying another iPad. $100 vs $300.

Allowing family members to share an iPad will remain a common use case even with a mini. I let my kids use mine all the time. I share my iPad with other people's kids too.

Even a "guest" mode would be useful.

I'd like weather and toggles for common used settings like wi-fi, Bluetooth, brightness, etc. I think there's a way to do it that's tasteful and not cluttered.

Yep. My guess is Apple hasn't done it because they're obsessed with simplicity to the point of certain useful functions being left off with the thought it makes the device too complicated. But if they are doing it to try and force people into owning more than one device then I think that's crap.

But if that's in the lock screen anyone could adjust those settings? Not even android, to my knowledge, allows you to access settings from the lock screen. And personally it doesn't take much to unlock the phone.

But I guess if they did add it I could just turn it off. Anyway I think it's more important they add settings to notifications center than the lock screen.

I don't think it has to do with complexity. It's done pretty simply and seamlessly on Mac.

I would assume that if you turned your device completely off you would be asked to choose an account when you turn it back on and when you go to turn your device off your given the option to shut down or log out of account. Pretty simple.

They may add the feature one day. I think it'd be especially useful in education.

I guess I just think a retina iPad mini at $399 is a tough sell when you have others being very agrressive on price, Also considering retina iOS devices have never gone up in price. IPad 2 was the same price as iPad 1's original price, iPhone 4 was the same price as iPhone 3GS.

More on sharing...

What if you or someone wants to read in bed -- or watch a movie?

I'm going to bed now... Who's in?


Do you really wan't to schedule time and share a appliance computer?

We all use our iPads as personal TVs for Netflix, Podcasts and our home AV collection (1,000 videos).


The boy's iPads are 64 GB and are maxed out on apps -- the better games are 1-2 GB each.

However, I do like the idea of a guest mode.

 

Movies. Music. Apps. Sounds desperately low, if you ask me. Barebones, in fact.

 

There will definitely be multi-user touchscreen devices from Apple. But I don't imagine they'll be the ones you carry around. 

The minimum number of people required to carry the device will be the number able to have accounts on it. How's that? 

 

Whoa, not the '60s; this ain't my bag! 

I guess I got mixed up there - I was thinking toggles for common used settings in NC. But weather would be nice on the lock screen. Also some sort of notification that you've received messages would be nice. A friend of mine who upgraded to an iPhone has told me they really miss that feature. On their Android phone they didn't even have to turn it on to know if someone had sent them a text.

Something else I'd love is a setting that would automatically turn Wi-Fi on and off based on my location. For instance when I'm at work I usually turn Wi-Fi off since we're not supposed to use company Wi-Fi for social media, streaming music/video. I set up a location-based reminder which works okay but having iOS do it for me would be cool. Of course I'm not sure how it would function if you manually went in and changed the setting, I know sometimes at home if I'm downloaded something I will turn off Wi-Fi because LTE is faster. But again if there was a way to implement I think it would be cool.