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Oracle's fix for zero-day Java flaw to be available 'shortly' [update: released]

post #1 of 45
Thread Starter 
In response to the discovery of a Java 7 flaw that prompted Apple to disable the software in OS X, Oracle issued a statement saying it is currently working on a fix and will release the patch soon.

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Oracle released the statement late Friday following a U.S. Department of Homeland Security recommendation that all Java 7 users disable or uninstall the software until a patch was issued, reports Reuters. Taking action on its own, Apple quietly disabled the plugin through its OS X anti-malware system shortly after hearing of the exploit.

A timeline as to when the fix will be pushed out is unknown as Oracle offered only a vague answer saying, "A fix will be available shortly."

The U.S. Department of Homeland Security said that Java's most-recent vulnerability is being "attacked in the wild, and is reported to be incorporated into exploit kits."

For its part, Oracle noted in its statement that the flaw only affects the most up-to-date version of Java 7 and Java software designed to run in Internet browsers.

Java and Apple have had a rocky relationship over the past few years, including a move to drop the Java runtime from OS X 10.7 Lion's default installation when the OS debuted in 2010. Another flaw in Oracle's internet plugin was responsible for the most widespread Mac malware ever when the "Flashback" trojan reportedly affected some 600,000 OS X machines in April 2012.

Apple continued efforts to deprecate Java from OS X over the past year, culminating in the company's final official in-house Java update issued in May 2012. From that point, all responsibility for future updates was handed over to Oracle.

Update: Oracle on Sunday released a fix to a Java 7 flaw discovered on Friday. Users can download the release here.

From the release notes:

The fixes in this Alert include a change to the default Java Security Level setting from "Medium" to "High". With the "High" setting, the user is always prompted before any unsigned Java applet or Java Web Start application is run.

post #2 of 45
It would be nice if Apple put out an update for older OS'es that would make it easy for novice users to completely remove Java from their Macs. (Not to be confused with the Apple update that disabled the Safari Java plugin.)

While Lion and Mountain Lion don't contain Java, the OS Software Update automatically offers to install Java for the user when a Java app attempts to launch. There really needs to be a user setting to block that.
post #3 of 45

Good News!

 

Older versionv of the Mac OS do not update V. 7 of Java. This problem is limited to the most up-to-date version of Java as stated by Oracle.

post #4 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagladry View Post

Older versionv of the Mac OS do not update V. 7 of Java. This problem is limited to the most up-to-date version of Java as stated by Oracle.

 

THIS security problem is in Java 7.

 

Last year there was a similar security with Java 6.

 

And other security issues in versions past.......

post #5 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagladry View Post

Good News!

 

Older versionv of the Mac OS do not update V. 7 of Java. This problem is limited to the most up-to-date version of Java as stated by Oracle.

 

Maybe not so, previous versions of Java are mentioned here too:

 

http://web.nvd.nist.gov/view/vuln/detail?vulnId=CVE-2013-0422

post #6 of 45

I think the update is out. v7.10

post #7 of 45
v7.10 is the old version. New one is a beta right now.

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post #8 of 45
Quote:
While Lion and Mountain Lion don't contain Java, the OS Software Update automatically offers to install Java for the user when a Java app attempts to launch. There really needs to be a user setting to block that.

 

There is... it's called the cancel button.

 

 

 

On another note...

 

There's nothing wrong with having Java on your machine... if you're running desktop apps from trusted sources (such as Eclipse), it's a perfectly valid application platform.

 

The issue is browser based apps from untrusted sources that run automatically.  An argument could (and should) be made that developers should be using alternatives when building browser based apps.  HTML5 and straight up traditional web applications like those developed with frameworks like ExtJS are the way to go... even if the vast majority of application logic is already written in Java, it should be run on the server side, not the client.  The security issues with browser based applets are not acceptable... unfortunate as there's a lot of efficiencies in the development process and some reduced functionality that we lose out on because of it.

 

Once new technologies like JavaFX are fully baked, these questions become more difficult as you'll have a much more robust Java application platform, even for browser based apps.  Unfortunately... the underlying security issues we repeatedly have to deal with in Java mean JavaFX is still only viable for full desktop applications from trusted sources.

post #9 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobringer View Post

There is... it's called the cancel button.



On another note...

There's nothing wrong with having Java on your machine... if you're running desktop apps from trusted sources (such as Eclipse), it's a perfectly valid application platform.

The issue is browser based apps from untrusted sources that run automatically.  An argument could (and should) be made that developers should be using alternatives when building browser based apps.  HTML5 and straight up traditional web applications like those developed with frameworks like ExtJS are the way to go... even if the vast majority of application logic is already written in Java, it should be run on the server side, not the client.  The security issues with browser based applets are not acceptable... unfortunate as there's a lot of efficiencies in the development process and some reduced functionality that we lose out on because of it.

Once new technologies like JavaFX are fully baked, these questions become more difficult as you'll have a much more robust Java application platform, even for browser based apps.  Unfortunately... the underlying security issues we repeatedly have to deal with in Java mean JavaFX is still only viable for full desktop applications from trusted sources.

I agree completely with the bolded - particularly with the diversification of platforms out there.

OS X is taking an increased share of desktop systems. iOS is growing. Android is growing. You now have WIndows RT added to the Windows 8 platform. Add in Kindle (forked Android), RIM, etc, etc, etc and creating native apps for every platform (even using a tool like Java) becomes very complex and difficult to test. Writing a front end for each app with the app itself running on a server makes far more sense for web-based apps.
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post #10 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalMacRat View Post

It would be nice if Apple put out an update for older OS'es that would make it easy for novice users to completely remove Java from their Macs. (Not to be confused with the Apple update that disabled the Safari Java plugin.)

While Lion and Mountain Lion don't contain Java, the OS Software Update automatically offers to install Java for the user when a Java app attempts to launch. There really needs to be a user setting to block that.

 

I wish those who ran websites would just stop using freaking java so that we don't need to have the java web plugin at all.  This site for example.  

 

When is the tech press going to realise that unless you're a hard core geek, you don't actually want or need java at all, for anything.  No end users, "love java," or "enjoy java interfaces."  They install it when they are asked to but no one actually goes out looking for it or wants it in any way.  It's something forced upon us by uber-geeks who think it's cool or by businesses who have been co-oerced into using it by the same geeks.  

 

Flash, on the other hand, despite being just as crappy, and having even more problems than Java, is something that users actively want and seek out to install.   The Flash plug-in is already disallowed, but suggestions that Java be removed from browsers is typically met with abject horror from the tech press.  Java is a techie "darling" kind of thing that the industry and all the tech blog writers support, but that the public actually would rather went away entirely.  Forever. 

post #11 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

I wish those who ran websites would just stop using freaking java so that we don't need to have the java web plugin at all.  This site for example.  

When is the tech press going to realise that unless you're a hard core geek, you don't actually want or need java at all, for anything.  No end users, "love java," or "enjoy java interfaces."  They install it when they are asked to but no one actually goes out looking for it or wants it in any way.  It's something forced upon us by uber-geeks who think it's cool or by businesses who have been co-oerced into using it by the same geeks.  

Flash, on the other hand, despite being just as crappy, and having even more problems than Java, is something that users actively want and seek out to install.   The Flash plug-in is already disallowed, but suggestions that Java be removed from browsers is typically met with abject horror from the tech press.  Java is a techie "darling" kind of thing that the industry and all the tech blog writers support, but that the public actually would rather went away entirely.  Forever. 

I disagree about Flash. The only reason users actively "want and seek out" Flash is because some sties require it - just like Java. I can't imagine why anyone would want Flash for its own sake. If all Flash sites were converted to html, I doubt if anyone would bother seeking out or wanting Flash. It's essentially the same situation as Java.
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post #12 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

I wish those who ran websites would just stop using freaking java so that we don't need to have the java web plugin at all.  This site for example.

 

What websites do you go to that actually use Java?  I can't remember the last time I went to a site that required Java... at all.

 

I'm also not sure what tech press fawns over browser based Java like you suggest.  I sure haven't seen it...  Those of us that "do" java know where it belongs.  And we know it doesn't belong in the browser... as most web sites discovered in about 2002.

 

Also... I don't know any users that seek out flash just for the sake of having flash on their machine.  They use flash because the sites they go to require it.  I do know a lot of users (like myself) who actively block flash unless we need to run a specific piece of embedded content.  In my opinion... this is exactly the same as Java.  Users don't want either just for the sake of having them... they use them because a site requires it.  If half the video on the internet required a java based player, users would seek out java plugins just as they do flash plugins.

post #13 of 45
My mom just texted me and asked if she should install java on her new PC (ugh, I know). I told her not to because of this. Does it effect PCs too?

 

 


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post #14 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

I wish those who ran websites would just stop using freaking java so that we don't need to have the java web plugin at all.  This site for example.  

 

When is the tech press going to realise that unless you're a hard core geek, you don't actually want or need java at all, for anything.  No end users, "love java," or "enjoy java interfaces."  They install it when they are asked to but no one actually goes out looking for it or wants it in any way.  It's something forced upon us by uber-geeks who think it's cool or by businesses who have been co-oerced into using it by the same geeks.  

 

Flash, on the other hand, despite being just as crappy, and having even more problems than Java, is something that users actively want and seek out to install.   The Flash plug-in is already disallowed, but suggestions that Java be removed from browsers is typically met with abject horror from the tech press.  Java is a techie "darling" kind of thing that the industry and all the tech blog writers support, but that the public actually would rather went away entirely.  Forever. 


The public doesn't care or gets what you just wrote.The public wants free pirated Office and if the public cannot get it, it wants free OpenOffice, which means Java.

Your anti-javaness just proves you don't understand what you are speaking about. Java is a great technology, it just needs better security updates.

 

Also, Apple/Microsoft has a very clear business interest in "protecting" the user from Java, with its Apple/Microsoft AppStore. Apple currently requires you (unless you know enough to disable that setting, which is not a good idea...) to control-click to install "unsigned software", and Microsoft just prevents unsigned software from launching from Metro. Obviously, the goal is to get users accustomed to the idea that they cannot run software that doesn't come from the AppStore.

 

It's the end of a world where your computer can run whatever you want, and the beginning of one where everything must be approved by big corporations. Removing Java (or Ruby/Python/LUA or any other interpreter/VM) is an obvious step towards that.

 

Your anti-Java argument reminds me of Microsoft-fanboys' stance. It should be enough to prove it is a dangerous position to hold.

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post #15 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

I wish those who ran websites would just stop using freaking java so that we don't need to have the java web plugin at all.  This site for example.  

When is the tech press going to realise that unless you're a hard core geek, you don't actually want or need java at all, for anything.  

Same could probably be said about Flash. Especially with the growth of tablets which aren't powerful enough to run either well (which is why Apple left them out of iOS )
post #16 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post


The public doesn't care or gets what you just wrote.The public wants free pirated Office

Might shock you to find out that no, the public doesn't want pirated software. Cheap geeks yes, but the public at large actually buys legit copies

And the fact that you can disable the setting makes your Big Brother comment basically moot in regards to Apple
post #17 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobringer View Post

 

What websites do you go to that actually use Java?  I can't remember the last time I went to a site that required Java... at all.

 

I'm also not sure what tech press fawns over browser based Java like you suggest.  I sure haven't seen it...  Those of us that "do" java know where it belongs.  And we know it doesn't belong in the browser... as most web sites discovered in about 2002.

 

Also... I don't know any users that seek out flash just for the sake of having flash on their machine.  They use flash because the sites they go to require it.  I do know a lot of users (like myself) who actively block flash unless we need to run a specific piece of embedded content.  In my opinion... this is exactly the same as Java.  Users don't want either just for the sake of having them... they use them because a site requires it.  If half the video on the internet required a java based player, users would seek out java plugins just as they do flash plugins.


I agree entirely with these two latter points. As for the first one, I've had several websites demand Java recently, two of which required (and shipped by mail) a piece of hardware, and two others being government.

 

All in all, I'm very curious to see how this is going to turn out. It is, after all, a matter of civil rights much more important than the right to carry guns, whether or not people can run whatever they want on their devices, which contain their information, which pretty much defines their life. Will we surrender those rights for "ease of use" and "corporation-approved security"?

 

 

Also, what makes Oracle's security lesser than Apple's? Isn't Larry Ellison (he's Oracle like SJ was Apple...) the guy that SJ was official photographer to the wedding of? Sounds like someone I'd trust on matters of quality, not you? Seems to me that the only good reason to scrap Oracle's Java is to prevent non-Apple-controlled software from running on Apple hardware. Next step would be preventing GCC...

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post #18 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post



All in all, I'm very curious to see how this is going to turn out. It is, after all, a matter of civil rights much more important than the right to carry guns, whether or not people can run whatever they want on their devices,

Can't wait to see how that argument works out for you. Something tells me that it won't go as you think it should and we won't have companies like Apple being forced to 'jailbreak' their own OS etc any time soon. Particularly when the DMCA exemptions allow you to do it yourself without risk of legal action (just at the risk that the manufacturer won't warranty their hardware if you've done it and legally doesn't have to)
post #19 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


Might shock you to find out that no, the public doesn't want pirated software. Cheap geeks yes, but the public at large actually buys legit copies


Might shock you to find out that most geeks actually run Apple software on Apple hardware, or legal Visual Studio on Dells. I live in three countries and work with a lot of them geeks. Also, just look at any big geek conference, at the hardware they use. I run MBA/iMac/MBP, most of my friends have the same type of hardware. I don't have one single piece of illegal software, nor do they.

 

Most un-geeks I know however run illegal software. Some don't even understand the bloody concept, they just had family install the software for them out of that well-known store, "Bittorrent"... Most of them perfectly know their software is pirated and don't give a shit. It annoys me a lot, because I make my living out of programming and I feel it's unfair to us geeks/developers that because our business is immaterial, people feel they can just steal our work. The public, however, seems very good at finding reasons why it's ok for them to pirate.

 

The public at large doesn't "actually buys legit copies". The public at large pirates. Real geeks "actually buy legit copies".

 

 

Cheap geeks, well, does that really exist?  A geek is a passionate being. How could you be a passionate being and be cheap about your core interest? Would you be cheap about your parachute if you were into skydiving? Would you be cheap about your sailboat if you were into sailing? Would you be cheap about your destination if you were into travelling? Would you be cheap about your instrument if you were into music? I understand that some music geeks (say Brian May) even go so far as building their own instruments (say, a Red Special). Geeks are passionate, and geeks by definition cannot be "cheap", or they're just pretend-geeks (I'm such a geek, I even have Twitter! Yeah, sure...)

 

I don't believe a mere second into your core argument. Geeks are passionate, geeks pay for their software. The general public that is more interested into what the software gives them access to, rather than in the software itself, doesn't give a shit and just pirates it. That's what I've seen in several countries, with multiple social classes, over 20 years.

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post #20 of 45
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post

The public at large doesn't "actually buys legit copies". The public at large pirates. Real geeks "actually buy legit copies".

 

This sounds entirely backwards.

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post #21 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


Can't wait to see how that argument works out for you. Something tells me that it won't go as you think it should and we won't have companies like Apple being forced to 'jailbreak' their own OS etc any time soon. Particularly when the DMCA exemptions allow you to do it yourself without risk of legal action (just at the risk that the manufacturer won't warranty their hardware if you've done it and legally doesn't have to)


If you think that, with regards to the public at large, that's enough, you sorely misunderstand who normal people are. I'll even go further, good luck running your own software if A -you need to jailbreak your computer and B- it's as hard to jailbreak as iOS 6 is. Not to mention that Apple's possible plans of making their own chips would make that even harder.

 

Can't wait to see how that argument works out for you, when you try to jailbreak your iMac. Oh, wait, I forgot. You're probably the type that lets others, such as those despicable "cheap geeks" do all the hard work and just reap the free results of that hard work. Good for you, that's how you get rich.

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post #22 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

This sounds entirely backwards.


Care to justify that sentence? I believe that what I wrote is pretty much backed of, if not by Apple-provided numbers, at least by enough life-experience to be worth at least a bit more than 4 words in response, TS...

 

As I've said, in my personnal, but non-entirely-negligible life experience, pirates are the general public, that doesn't have a stake (working in that field) or a moral ground (being passionate about software) in computing. It sounds perfectly logical that people who pirate are the ones that feel it easiest to justify that moral transgression (it's immaterial), and as for "you need to be a geek to pirate"... you just need to understand enough of computers to download pirated movies. Pirated software is the same click-away.

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post #23 of 45
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post
Care to justify that sentence?


Care to justify yours?


Pirated software is the same click-away.

 

Purchased is easier, period. Apple has done what they set out to do: they've made the legal route more appealing from a standpoint of entropy than the pirated route.

 

Pirated software is not "one click" away. Not by a long shot. 

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post #24 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by logandigges View Post

My mom just texted me and asked if she should install java on her new PC (ugh, I know). I told her not to because of this. Does it effect PCs too?

 

It wouldn't be on the Dept. of Homeland Security's hit list if it only affected Macs.

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post #25 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


Care to justify yours?

I did. I did not just throw around a sentence. You did that, twice. That's troll behavior, which coming from a moderator is... deranging.

 

Purchased is easier, period. Apple has done what they set out to do: they've made the legal route more appealing from a standpoint of entropy than the pirated route.

I actually agree with that, and it's a very good thing. It has, indeed, made a lot of people I know turn back to legal software. However, as long as I will see a majority of Windows/Office/Photoshop that is PIRATED, your point is moot and only concerns a minority rich enough to own Apple and know it is better than the Windows alternative (probably geeks, actually).

 

Pirated software is not "one click" away. Not by a long shot. 

 

Most definitely is. Even people who can't for the life of them install a HP printer which only requires a CD-backed driver install run pirated software... Type "name of software + pirate bay", in Google, click link, get told you need "bittorrent", search that in google, install that. From then on, it's just a matter of the first two steps (Type "name of software + pirate bay", in Google, click link). Install downloaded software the same way you install the normal software, doubleclick crack. It's not like you need to manipulate the registry editor, it's not 1995 anymore.

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post #26 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

 

It wouldn't be on the Dept. of Homeland Security's hit list if it only affected Macs

Sounds like the voice of reason :p

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post #27 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


Care to justify yours?

 

Purchased is easier, period. Apple has done what they set out to do: they've made the legal route more appealing from a standpoint of entropy than the pirated route.

 

Pirated software is not "one click" away. Not by a long shot. 


Also, Windows users are known (see this same forum for articles dating back to this year) as much more likely to pirate. Geeks are much more likely to run UNIX than Windows, and the best looking UNIX is Mac, which makes them likely to run a Mac.

 

Don't you see an obvious link?

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post #28 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post


Care to justify that sentence? I believe that what I wrote is pretty much backed of, if not by Apple-provided numbers, at least by enough life-experience to be worth at least a bit more than 4 words in response, TS...

It depends on where you live.

In the US, it doesn't appear to be the majority. At least part of the reason is that so much software is purchased by businesses and the government has made a very serious attempt to punish software pirates. The amount of pirated software ranges from 20% (USA) to 93% (Armenia). While the actual numbers may not be completely correct, the trends probably are:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_sof_pir_rat-crime-software-piracy-rate

The global weighted average is 59.9%, so your statement is probably more true than TS' if you're talking global statistics. If you're talking US, then his statement is clearly more true than yours.

In any event, it's a clear problem everywhere. Even a loss of 20% of revenues is a massive amount of money.
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post #29 of 45

Anyway, I'm not going to go on fighting that forum war.

 

I, personally, based on my own experience, as well as data that even is available in part on AppleInsider, believe that geek users are more likely to use bought software, such as MacRabbit's Espresso or Apple's iWork than the general public. The general public, moreover, is more likely to run Microsoft Windows than Linux or Mac, in my opinion and as widely available data proves.

 

If you believe that my belief is mistaken, you're as allowed to do that as I am to stay set in my encrusted crappy ways and as much loved by God, if there is a God.

Have a fine day, Internet Forum Dweller, my e-brother :p

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post #30 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


It depends on where you live.

In the US, it doesn't appear to be the majority. At least part of the reason is that so much software is purchased by businesses and the government has made a very serious attempt to punish software pirates. The amount of pirated software ranges from 20% (USA) to 93% (Armenia). While the actual numbers may not be completely correct, the trends probably are:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_sof_pir_rat-crime-software-piracy-rate

The global weighted average is 59.9%, so your statement is probably more true than TS' if you're talking global statistics. If you're talking US, then his statement is clearly more true than yours.

In any event, it's a clear problem everywhere. Even a loss of 20% of revenues is a massive amount of money.


Thank you for the hard data and the intelligent analysis :D

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post #31 of 45
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post

Don't you see an obvious link?

 

I'd certainly like to see one. Usually they're blue. 

 

Thanks, jragosta.

 

Why does it make more sense that the "common man" would pirate? How are they going to figure out what torrents are and how they work? On the other hand, "geeks" would "know these things".

 

The common man has an iPod touch or an iPad and some sort of desktop or laptop (virtually stationary) computer. He uses social networking, e-mail, and browses, occasionally buying something on iTunes. 

 

It's the people that are too lazy to pay for anything who do the work to find out how piracy works.

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post #32 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

It's the people that are too lazy who do the work.

The day I reach 1000 posts, that's the quote I want under my name...

 

Apart from that, I have a question that you people might know the answer to. My lady needs to have some database for her Doctorate in which she'll input objects (with fields such as "probably made under such or such King" or "was written about in such and such book"). She runs an iMac which has Windows and ML and an EEEpc which has Windows Professional.

 

I've made her a MySQL database with OpenOffice as a front-end, but I'm not happy with the fact it forces her to only use her EEE... which obviously is much less efficient than the iMac.

 

I'm wondering about writing her a small App for iPad (and getting her a Mini), which would sync via Dropbox to the equivalent on the iMac (I'd write that in Objective-C...). SQLite seems good enough for that, and while the SQLite databases tend to corrupt easily, I have a Time Capsule running that'd allow her to roll back in case of issue. However, maybe there already is some tool that offers the same type of functionnality (easy synch-ing, UI-oriented) and iPad/Mac based with a possible (ideally) synching to Windows?

 

I couldn't find one myself, but maybe one of you is aware of such a tool?

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

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Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

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post #33 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post


Might shock you to find out that most geeks actually run Apple software on Apple hardware, or legal Visual Studio on Dells. I live in three countries and work with a lot of them geeks. Also, just look at any big geek conference, at the hardware they use. I run MBA/iMac/MBP, most of my friends have the same type of hardware. I don't have one single piece of illegal software, nor do they.

 

Most un-geeks I know however run illegal software. Some don't even understand the bloody concept, they just had family install the software for them out of that well-known store, "Bittorrent"... Most of them perfectly know their software is pirated and don't give a shit. It annoys me a lot, because I make my living out of programming and I feel it's unfair to us geeks/developers that because our business is immaterial, people feel they can just steal our work. The public, however, seems very good at finding reasons why it's ok for them to pirate.

 

The public at large doesn't "actually buys legit copies". The public at large pirates. Real geeks "actually buy legit copies".

 

 

Cheap geeks, well, does that really exist?  A geek is a passionate being. How could you be a passionate being and be cheap about your core interest? Would you be cheap about your parachute if you were into skydiving? Would you be cheap about your sailboat if you were into sailing? Would you be cheap about your destination if you were into travelling? Would you be cheap about your instrument if you were into music? I understand that some music geeks (say Brian May) even go so far as building their own instruments (say, a Red Special). Geeks are passionate, and geeks by definition cannot be "cheap", or they're just pretend-geeks (I'm such a geek, I even have Twitter! Yeah, sure...)

 

I don't believe a mere second into your core argument. Geeks are passionate, geeks pay for their software. The general public that is more interested into what the software gives them access to, rather than in the software itself, doesn't give a shit and just pirates it. That's what I've seen in several countries, with multiple social classes, over 20 years.

No, current geeks are idiots that do not matter for anything, like fandroids with their ROMs, people running cars, etc. That's not being passionate, that's not loving android, that's not loving cars. Oh, and they love to pirate software, because pirating is "cool" and writing/using "office activator" is so badass! /s

 

A competent professional programmer or software engineer, are not geeks. Geek has nothing to do with being smart or competent. Geek is all about changing ROMs, bragging stupid non-sense, etc. Some people think that just because they like to change ROMs and install ubuntu they are geeks, and just because they are geeks they are smart. Please.

 

Geeks hurt pure Android (that is already hurt by samsung and stupid skins). Geeks hurt Linux for wanting it to stay "geek-like", just like they did with GUIs and the mouse. Geeks are not important or competent people, just trash. Linux and some distros would be so much better if People stopped associating geeks with important or intelligent people...

 

Geeks are trash and i have no respect for them.

post #34 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I'd certainly like to see one. Usually they're blue. 

Thanks, jragosta.

Why does it make more sense that the "common man" would pirate? How are they going to figure out what torrents are and how they work? On the other hand, "geeks" would "know these things".

The common man has an iPod touch or an iPad and some sort of desktop or laptop (virtually stationary) computer. He uses social networking, e-mail, and browses, occasionally buying something on iTunes. 

It's the people that are too lazy to pay for anything who do the work to find out how piracy works.

You're mistaken in believing that someone needs to figure out torrents in order to pirate software. In much of the world, you can buy pirated software in virtually any retail store which sells software. Even in the US, it's not hard to find pirated software on disk at flea markets or other locations. Although eBay makes an effort to prevent it, you can find pirated software on eBay, too. On my last trip to China, I could have come home with pirated software (in shrink-wrapped boxes that looked quite a bit like the originals) for virtually every major application that I use. It would probably have cost me well under $100 for everything - including AutoCAD, Office, and Creative Suite.

That's why the estimate is that 60% of all the software in use worldwide is pirated. It's not people using torrents, it's people buying pirated disks.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #35 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post

The day I reach 1000 posts, that's the quote I want under my name...

 

Apart from that, I have a question that you people might know the answer to. My lady needs to have some database for her Doctorate in which she'll input objects (with fields such as "probably made under such or such King" or "was written about in such and such book"). She runs an iMac which has Windows and ML and an EEEpc which has Windows Professional.

 

I've made her a MySQL database with OpenOffice as a front-end, but I'm not happy with the fact it forces her to only use her EEE... which obviously is much less efficient than the iMac.

 

I'm wondering about writing her a small App for iPad (and getting her a Mini), which would sync via Dropbox to the equivalent on the iMac (I'd write that in Objective-C...). SQLite seems good enough for that, and while the SQLite databases tend to corrupt easily, I have a Time Capsule running that'd allow her to roll back in case of issue. However, maybe there already is some tool that offers the same type of functionnality (easy synch-ing, UI-oriented) and iPad/Mac based with a possible (ideally) synching to Windows?

 

I couldn't find one myself, but maybe one of you is aware of such a tool?

 

FileMaker used to be the way to go. I think it's now called Bento, which has an iOS version you can sync with a Mac.

Also check out BayCard, which is sort of like a modern HyperCard. She can quickly set-up a simple database without any programming.

Both are available via Mac AppStore.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #36 of 45
Originally Posted by GadgetCanada View Post
Sounds like one click to me.

 

Sounds like several dozen clicks.


What's your problem TS!!?

 

Why do you assume I have a problem? You're all pretending this is common knowledge. Hindsight doesn't work like that. It's like the same argument in history: "Why didn't they just build tanks earlier?" The tank is something on which we look back and say, "Oh, well, that's obvious." It wasn't, to the people of the time.

 

People don't know about these things simply because you do. You're not putting yourselves in their shoes.

Originally Posted by asdasd

This is Appleinsider. It's all there for you but we can't do it for you.
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Originally Posted by asdasd

This is Appleinsider. It's all there for you but we can't do it for you.
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post #37 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

No, current geeks are idiots that do not matter for anything, like fandroids with their ROMs, people running cars, etc. That's not being passionate, that's not loving android, that's not loving cars. Oh, and they love to pirate software, because pirating is "cool" and writing/using "office activator" is so badass! /s

 

A competent professional programmer or software engineer, are not geeks. Geek has nothing to do with being smart or competent. Geek is all about changing ROMs, bragging stupid non-sense, etc. Some people think that just because they like to change ROMs and install ubuntu they are geeks, and just because they are geeks they are smart. Please.

 

Geeks hurt pure Android (that is already hurt by samsung and stupid skins). Geeks hurt Linux for wanting it to stay "geek-like", just like they did with GUIs and the mouse. Geeks are not important or competent people, just trash. Linux and some distros would be so much better if People stopped associating geeks with important or intelligent people...

 

Geeks are trash and i have no respect for them.


Let me rewrite that to see if I understand. You redefine geeks to be trash. Then you say that the respectable people that others call "geeks" aren't geeks, but "smart people". Then you say that the trash people you renamed as geeks are not worthy of your respect.

 

Okaaaay.

 

The rest of the world calls smart, intelligent people with a passion "geeks", and especially computer geeks (but there also are "chemistry geeks" or "literacy geeks", equally worthy of respect). Anyway, your argument bites itself, since you end up pretending that Linux would be better if (smart people called geeks that make them live) weren't what they are. Whatever.

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

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Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

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post #38 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


You're mistaken in believing that someone needs to figure out torrents in order to pirate software. In much of the world, you can buy pirated software in virtually any retail store which sells software. Even in the US, it's not hard to find pirated software on disk at flea markets or other locations. Although eBay makes an effort to prevent it, you can find pirated software on eBay, too. On my last trip to China, I could have come home with pirated software (in shrink-wrapped boxes that looked quite a bit like the originals) for virtually every major application that I use. It would probably have cost me well under $100 for everything - including AutoCAD, Office, and Creative Suite.

That's why the estimate is that 60% of all the software in use worldwide is pirated. It's not people using torrents, it's people buying pirated disks.


That's frightening...

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

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Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

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post #39 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


You're mistaken in believing that someone needs to figure out torrents in order to pirate software. In much of the world, you can buy pirated software in virtually any retail store which sells software. Even in the US, it's not hard to find pirated software on disk at flea markets or other locations. Although eBay makes an effort to prevent it, you can find pirated software on eBay, too. On my last trip to China, I could have come home with pirated software (in shrink-wrapped boxes that looked quite a bit like the originals) for virtually every major application that I use. It would probably have cost me well under $100 for everything - including AutoCAD, Office, and Creative Suite.

That's why the estimate is that 60% of all the software in use worldwide is pirated. It's not people using torrents, it's people buying pirated disks.

 

Craigslist is also full of people selling versions of popular software like Windows, Office, Photoshop and so on. They'll sell you a burned disc ready to go and many will even offer to install it for you. A guy at work downloads albums and videos all the time and he's NOT tech savvy at all. If he can figure it out then anyone can.

Author of The Fuel Injection Bible

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Author of The Fuel Injection Bible

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post #40 of 45

Way to go Snoracle .....

 

 

1/13/13 5:29:26.002 PM acwebsecagent[126]: Connection : Auth key is not provided or is invalid, applying connection failure policy. CMode : 2 TMode : 1
1/13/13 5:29:26.002 PM acwebsecagent[126]: OnConnectionFailure : Fail Open - Reason = Unable to verify the license key
1/13/13 5:29:26.890 PM acwebsecagent[126]: Connection : Auth key is not provided or is invalid, applying connection failure policy. CMode : 2 TMode : 1
1/13/13 5:29:26.890 PM acwebsecagent[126]: OnConnectionFailure : Fail Open - Reason = Unable to verify the license key
1/13/13 5:29:28.692 PM acwebsecagent[126]: Connection : Auth key is not provided or is invalid, applying connection failure policy. CMode : 2 TMode : 1
1/13/13 5:29:28.693 PM acwebsecagent[126]: OnConnectionFailure : Fail Open - Reason = Unable to verify the license key
1/13/13 5:29:31.838 PM acwebsecagent[126]: Connection : Auth key is not provided or is invalid, applying connection failure policy. CMode : 2 TMode : 1
1/13/13 5:29:31.838 PM acwebsecagent[126]: OnConnectionFailure : Fail Open - Reason = Unable to verify the license key
1/13/13 5:29:36.178 PM Java Updater[7535]: Sparkle Error: An error occurred while downloading the update. Please try again later.
1/13/13 5:29:36.178 PM Java Updater[7535]: Sparkle Error (continued): The operation couldn’t be completed. (NSURLErrorDomain error -1100.)
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