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Apple to begin preliminary 'iPhone 5S' builds in March for June/July launch - report - Page 2

post #41 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

 

The sarcasm needs to continue to combat bullshit artists like Junkyard Dawg who make statements with absolutely no evidence to back it up.

 

What? Statements like" "but Apple are losing sales to 'Droids with big screens."

 

I'd say that is pretty much true. The reason might be up for debate.

 

As far as the 6" part... sure, silly idea in my opinion, but I've seen sillier things said by members who are considered "part of the club".

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post #42 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

 

What? Statements like" "but Apple are losing sales to 'Droids with big screens."

 

I'd say that is pretty much true. The reason might be up for debate.

 

As far as the 6" part... sure, silly idea in my opinion, but I've seen sillier things said by members who are considered "part of the club".

 

Wait, there's a club?  ;-)

post #43 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenbf View Post

 

Wait, there's a club?  ;-)


Shhhh...

 

I could be terminated for letting the cat out of the bag!

 

[... and please don't respond with: "Wait, there's a cat? ]  ;-)

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post #44 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

With the iPhone being the flagship device it does make sense to launch it before other products. It certainly doesn't make sense to launch the iPods, iPhone and iPads all at the same time. I could see the iPhone moving back to Summer with the iPods and iPads being released for the Holidays. However that would mean there is a opening in the Spring. I think we might see a new product category arrive this year to fill that gap. A new Mac Pro, Apple Display and AirPort routers won't cut it.

 

Do you have any thoughts on what that new category would be?

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post #45 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1983 View Post

The smartphone/tablet market is a very hotly contested product category, so the technological pace is accelerating with everybody trying to one up each other. Even though Apple is seemingly doing well, it has to keep up, there-for the need for bi-annual product updates.

Oh and didn't Mr Schiller put to bed any rumour's of a cheaper iPhone already? That particular subject seems to be more a case of wishful thinking on the analysts part rather than an imminent reality - we'll see...

 

Less expensive != cheap

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post #46 of 75

The easy part might be manufacturing a screen size nestled between the iPad mini and iPod touch. I think someone suggested in an earlier thread halving the current iPad mini screen could achieve that at Retina quality. I'm not sure; I haven't run the numbers.

 

It seems like the larger issue would be branding and pricing. Apple did well enough with the iPod mini, but as screen size/spec/pricing differentiation gets squeezed, the problem appears more confounding. 

 

Perhaps a larger iPod touch and discontinue the 2012 model? Unlikely, as the production lines probably haven't turned a profit yet. And what about pricing?

 

An iPad nano at ~5"? That seems more likely, but how would they price it? 

 

An iPhone "maxi" ?!?!

 

A case can be made now, even more than last year with the mini threads, of possible customer confusion around product differentiation.

 

It would be quite the "magic" trick for Tim and Phil to market and ship a new product category in there that immediately makes sense and has impact.

For your sake, I hope you're right.
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For your sake, I hope you're right.
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post #47 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Do you have any thoughts on what that new category would be?

No idea but I'm hoping for an Apple digibox that has deals with Charter, Time Warner, etc. They can make a lot of money yet only be a monthly fee to customers, they can be updated easily, you wouldn't have to change your cable input on your TV to the Apple TV to use it, and you wouldn't have to get all new TVs.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #48 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by jecaron View Post

@tallest skil it may not of hit their predictions but it still took the samsung g3 and wiped it on the floor.. so not the greatest for apple .. still is better then samsung is done.. plus they want to get back on a cycle of once a year releases.. unlike androids 20 per month

 

I don't agree that Apple wants "to get back on a cycle of once a year releases" -- especially for iDevices.  Rather, I believe Apple wants to have multiple releases to:

  • satisfy seasonal demands -- back to school, holidays, tax refunds
  • satisfy new markets -- emerging [technology] markets 
  • satisfy needs of worldwide markets and buying patterns
  • satisfy buying preferences -- subsidized contract vs prepaid
  • create market for multiple iDevices per person -- own an iPhone andiPad Mini/iPad
  • exploit new technology advantage -- LTE, WiFi, APU as it becomes available
  • maintain momentum -- [relatively] continuous new product releases
  • flesh out product offerings with more SKUs and price points
  • prevent competition from taking advantage of a predictable release frequency and timing
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
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post #49 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


Shhhh...

I could be terminated for letting the cat out of the bag!

[... and please don't respond with: "Wait, there's a cat? ]  ;-)

Wait, there's a bag?

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #50 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilM View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

[citation needed]

 

There's clearly a market for larger display sizes, but since Apple doesn't offer one, Apple loses sales to large screen Android handsets that do. QED.

 

Now I wouldn't advocate Apple addressing every Android product offering with a corresponding one of its own, but it seems disingenuous to imply that there's not a sales consequence to that. I'd be very surprised if Apple were to introduce a larger display size of any kind; the big honkin' phone just isn't Apple's style.

 

A more interesting question is just what an iPhone 5S design would consist of. Faster? OK, but the 5 is pretty much state-of-the-art fast as it is. More RAM? The 5 doesn't seem to need it. SoC process shrink? OK, but that's not really something that users can perceive, except maybe in incremental battery life improvement. Up the ante to 128GB of storage? Fine, but that could be a running change that doesn't call for a new model series.

 

LTE is already here, NFC doesn't look like it's coming, and the iPhone 5 is already almost ridiculously thin. So what's on the tech horizon that could call for an iPhone 5S in a near horizon? IGZO display...?

 

IMO, the next breakthrough Apple Product is the appliance computer... let's call it the "iDo" or "iAm" -- an iPad Mini LTE with built-in and external earphone/microphone and cell radios to satisfy all relevant tablet and smartphone markets: 

  • For emerging markets, it might be the only computing device/phone that an individual or home/family owns.
  • For established markets it would provide an individual with an alternative choice -- portibility of iPhone vs capability of iPad Mini
  • For high-end users it would provide an individual with an additional choice -- buy both and use whichever best fits the need de jour
  • it could sold contract or prepaid -- user chooses
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
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"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
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post #51 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain J View Post

For the umpteenth time, two times per year refreshes make little to no sense for iPhones that are stuck on two year contracts. Not enough people to buy both models.

I think Apple does need to go back to splitting up the release times for its products. It keeps interest year round and allows people time to save up for each different item.

Valid arguments can be made for both sides of the low cost and screen size debates. Apple will decide which they like better, however to blindly say one or the other side is wrong is shortsighted stupidity.

 

 

For the umteenth + ! time -- not everyone buys a new at the same time at the release of the new iPhone.  Rather, those who have contracts -- most look around at what is available when their contract ends and choose to:

  1. buy the latest iPhone
  2. wait for the next iPhone
  3. skip an iPhone release
  4. change platforms
  5. do nothing

 

Having 2 cycles of new iPhones per year, likely, means that Apple could increase sales to 1) and 2) of the contract crowd while increasing appeal to the prepaid crowd.

 

Periodically, there will be a significant enough breakthrough that people will pay the termination charges and buy the new device -- the original iPhone was one of those breakthroughs.


Edited by Dick Applebaum - 1/15/13 at 1:29pm
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
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post #52 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

New. From Apple. The 30" iPhone. Because now the whiners will finally shut up.


Posted before, but ok

 

________________________________________________________________________

 

Damn this 1600 vertical pixels screen; now I need to scroll down to see where the stock is today!

 

 

You win the creative sig award!

"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
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"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

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post #53 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenbf View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

 

What? Statements like" "but Apple are losing sales to 'Droids with big screens."

 

I'd say that is pretty much true. The reason might be up for debate.

 

As far as the 6" part... sure, silly idea in my opinion, but I've seen sillier things said by members who are considered "part of the club".

 

Wait, there's a club?  ;-)

 

Yes, there's a club... And we perform on the stage...  There's a stage leaving in half an hour...  Be on it!

"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
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"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

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post #54 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenbf View Post

 

I wonder about this one.  Granted, NFC isn't a perfect technology and doesn't solve all problems - but if every W8 and Android phone/tablet has NFC, plus all the major carriers backing ISIS, not to mention Google & others...doesn't Apple pretty much NEED to put NFC in the next phone?

Just like they "needed" LTE on the 4s.  Apple will include it when they think the technology will enhance the product.  They waited for LTE until the chips were around to have good batery life and LTE had rolled out to enough of the country (at least on Verizon) to make it meaningful to most.  NFC right now is like LTE a year or two ago.  A neat idea that isn't realized yet.  Also I believe I read that the aluminum in the iPhone 5 and presumably the 5s makes an NFC chip next to impossible. 

post #55 of 75

Apple needs a larger screen phone fast or they will continue to lose share to Samsung.  People look at these phones and like it or not think "bigger is better" on the screen size.  Apple needs to fill this void quickly.

post #56 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvigod View Post

Apple needs a larger screen phone fast or they will continue to lose share to Samsung.  People look at these phones and like it or not think "bigger is better" on the screen size.  Apple needs to fill this void quickly.

I don't see any evidence of Apple losing to Samsung. Apple is growing their profits in a very healthy way. If Samsung is taking anything from anyone it's from other Android vendors.

As for you r idea of rushing into a new product lets remember that needed to make a netbook quickly before Acer owned the market and no one wanted Macs anymore. Don't you think it's a good think Apple doesn't make panicked, reactive decisions? I do.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #57 of 75
Originally Posted by mvigod View Post
Apple needs a larger screen phone fast or they will continue to lose share to Samsung.  People look at these phones and like it or not think "bigger is better" on the screen size.  Apple needs to fill this void quickly.

 

There's zero evidence of this now, just as there was zero evidence of it three years ago when they first said this. All evidence points away from it.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #58 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkyard Dawg View Post

Hopefully Apple will release a big screen iPhone to sell alongside the iPhone 5.  Personally I like the size of the 5 and even the 4S is fine for myself, but Apple are losing sales to 'Droids with big screens.  A 6" Retina iPhone could nip that trend in the bud.

I actually get it that there are many people who only want 1 device, and for them a slightly oversized phone is the best of all worlds. I could see Apple making one just to round out their line...
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What is really factored into the price is a kind of perpetual sense of disbelief that any company could be as good as Apple is. ~Retrogusto
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post #59 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

There's zero evidence of this now, just as there was zero evidence of it three years ago when they first said this. All evidence points away from it.


TS... you're slipping. A long answer to this type of statement?

 

Usually you just cut them off at; "Apple needs...".  1wink.gif

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post #60 of 75

"Apple needs a larger screen phone fast or they will continue to lose share to Samsung.  People look at these phones and like it or not think "bigger is better" on the screen size.  Apple needs to fill this void quickly."

 

They did a few months back: it's called the cellular data iPad mini.

post #61 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Usually you just cut them off at; "Apple needs...".  1wink.gif

That is usually a good sign of a lame comment.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #62 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Posted before, but ok

Wow 60 icons yet still there is three screens huh, I wonder what that ratio would be, hopefully if that came,there would be enough memory
We do not need the 5 inch screens, that is a downside to the phone in many cases, the phone does not need to have it, what is Really needed is the feature android could not have come up with, by the way 5S remember so no screen changes, the iPhone 6 needs multitouch home button/trackpad/ or I prefer touch panel.
post #63 of 75
My prediction is the iPhone goes to 32, 64, 128. No more 16. "S is for storage" will be part of the S I think

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2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

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post #64 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I don't see any evidence of Apple losing to Samsung. Apple is growing their profits in a very healthy way. If Samsung is taking anything from anyone it's from other Android vendors.

As for you r idea of rushing into a new product lets remember that needed to make a netbook quickly before Acer owned the market and no one wanted Macs anymore. Don't you think it's a good think Apple doesn't make panicked, reactive decisions? I do.

 

Yes I agree their decisions should be measured and tempered.  However samsung has proven that larger screen phones do sell.  I've had discussions with people looking to get their first smartphone and 4 out of 5 said they were going S3.  The reason?  Each said the larger screen.  One was a woman who said the iphone screen was too small for her fingers and nails.  she said she tried the iphone and S3 in the stores and is going to purchase the S3.  I tried to convince each why the iPhone is a better quality product, better design and better operating system.  For 4 of the 5 they would not consider it still.  It was all about the screen size.  Remember consumers are not smart. They are shallow and fickle.  Unlike apple who weighs decisions, consumers make snap judgments and staring at that large screen next to the iphone is mesmerizing to the commoners

post #65 of 75
Originally Posted by mvigod View Post
…nails.

 

Hoo boy.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #66 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

There's zero evidence of this now, just as there was zero evidence of it three years ago when they first said this. All evidence points away from it.

 

Apple itself provided the evidence of customers wanting a larger screen, when they lengthened their display just so they could claim 4".

 

Lacking true resolution independence in the majority of apps, Apple was unable to do much else.   Similar to Windows Mobile of yore, Apple has painted itself into a corner that will extra effort to get out of.

 

(A primary reason Apple was able to swoop in during 2007, was that they could start fresh, while everyone else was locked into legacy app, input and screen size support .   Now, five years later, Apple is likewise in a legacy app and display situation.   So far, they've hacked solutions like pixel doubling and reusing resolutions, but sooner or later they're going to have to bite the bullet and make bigger changes, or risk ending up looking stale and stuck like previous OSes had done.)

post #67 of 75
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

So far, they've hacked solutions like pixel doubling and reusing resolutions, but sooner or later they're going to have to bite the bullet and make bigger changes, or risk ending up looking stale and stuck like previous OSes had done.

 

lol.

 

What else do you expect me to say when you use "stale" in a non-joking argument?


If you treat your operating systems like you treat your bread, there's something wrong, and it isn't with the OS.


OS' are to be treated like wine or something similar.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #68 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

OS' are to be treated like wine or something similar.

 

Ah.  Okay.  Hmm.  How about this:

 

Sooner or later they'll have to use new grapes, because their old wine will have turned to vinegar.

 

1smile.gif

post #69 of 75
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post
Ah.  Okay.  Hmm.  How about this:

 

Sooner or later they'll have to use new grapes, because their old wine will have turned to vinegar.

 

There you go. Now note the difference in timeframes for wine and bread. 

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #70 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

My prediction is the iPhone goes to 32, 64, 128. No more 16. "S is for storage" will be part of the S I think
Yes in S upgrades the storage is usually improved. However S has always meant speed.
post #71 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis Hannah View Post


Yes in S upgrades the storage is usually improved. However S has always meant speed.

 

Some would say "S" stood for "Siri" in the 4S.

 

If these finger print rumors are true, "S" will probably stand for Security this time around.

post #72 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

 

Apple itself provided the evidence of customers wanting a larger screen, when they lengthened their display just so they could claim 4".

 

Lacking true resolution independence in the majority of apps, Apple was unable to do much else.   Similar to Windows Mobile of yore, Apple has painted itself into a corner that will extra effort to get out of.

 

(A primary reason Apple was able to swoop in during 2007, was that they could start fresh, while everyone else was locked into legacy app, input and screen size support .   Now, five years later, Apple is likewise in a legacy app and display situation.   So far, they've hacked solutions like pixel doubling and reusing resolutions, but sooner or later they're going to have to bite the bullet and make bigger changes, or risk ending up looking stale and stuck like previous OSes had done.)

 

100% agreed. Apple needs to bite the bullet and break out and not worry about pixel dimensions right now.  If they have to have 2 or 3 more that is fine.  the 1000's of android form factors don't seem to be hurting sales a bit. How many phones did samsung say they just sold of their Galaxy line?  Fragmentation is important for developers, yes.  But so is market size.  They prefer to develop for just a few screen sizes of course. It is easier.  I used to develop.  However this is not stopping them from doing extra work required to be on Android's multiple screen sizes.

 

Time to forget the hacks to use legacy apps.  Get a bigger screen and do a zoom in or let it letterbox until the developers resize it for new dimensions.  I agree they have to bite the bullet and not sooner or later but definitely sooner.  It is a lot harder to get a first time Android users to switch to apple once they learn the OS and invest in the ecosystem. 

 

I'm long apple stock since about $100 and hanging in.  I think Apple will deal with all these issues but my biggest fear is they seem to move very slow now compared to the Samsung's of the world.  These guys seem to pump out 50 phones in a blink of an eye and never have supply issues either.   That said my biggest issue is that the top executives and board members hold little to no stock.  Some hold zero. Some a few hundred.  Cook only owns 13k shares. 

 

As a shareholder this would be my biggest concern. Why don't any of them own any stock that represents even 1% of their net worth?  Why are they not buying here?  What do they know that we don't?  Why are they not aligned with shareholder interests (because they own no shares).  The shareholder vote out now they want you to vote against the shareholder proposal requiring executives to own a signifcant stake of shares in the company!  This is my issue and the reason I will peel out of this position until they change this and start owning some of the company they run.

post #73 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvigod View Post

 

100% agreed. Apple needs to bite the bullet and break out and not worry about pixel dimensions right now.  If they have to have 2 or 3 more that is fine.  the 1000's of android form factors don't seem to be hurting sales a bit. How many phones did samsung say they just sold of their Galaxy line?  Fragmentation is important for developers, yes.  But so is market size.  They prefer to develop for just a few screen sizes of course. It is easier.  I used to develop.  However this is not stopping them from doing extra work required to be on Android's multiple screen sizes.

 

Time to forget the hacks to use legacy apps.  Get a bigger screen and do a zoom in or let it letterbox until the developers resize it for new dimensions.  I agree they have to bite the bullet and not sooner or later but definitely sooner.  It is a lot harder to get a first time Android users to switch to apple once they learn the OS and invest in the ecosystem. 

 

I'm long apple stock since about $100 and hanging in.  I think Apple will deal with all these issues but my biggest fear is they seem to move very slow now compared to the Samsung's of the world.  These guys seem to pump out 50 phones in a blink of an eye and never have supply issues either.   That said my biggest issue is that the top executives and board members hold little to no stock.  Some hold zero. Some a few hundred.  Cook only owns 13k shares. 

 

As a shareholder this would be my biggest concern. Why don't any of them own any stock that represents even 1% of their net worth?  Why are they not buying here?  What do they know that we don't?  Why are they not aligned with shareholder interests (because they own no shares).  The shareholder vote out now they want you to vote against the shareholder proposal requiring executives to own a signifcant stake of shares in the company!  This is my issue and the reason I will peel out of this position until they change this and start owning some of the company they run.

 

Apple doesn't have to completely abandon their current screen ratios and resolutions. They've increased to 16:9 last year which was huge and now they have a lot more flexibility in what they can do.

 

SolipismX did the math and they can stretch the current iPhone 5 screen to about 5 inches and that would match the current retina iPad's PPI of 264. That means they can use the same panels and just cut them for 5 inches instead of 9.7. 

 

Also as screen technology has improved Apple could also double the resolution of the iPhone 5 again and stretch it to a 5 inch display creating a Super Retina display. At 528 PPI the screen would look magnificent and it would still have less pixels for the A7(?) chip to push around than a iPad Retina.

 

Apple could do some interesting things with their displays and options without growing stale or abandoning their developers. 

post #74 of 75

I see blind loyalty for both Apple and Android. I also see what happens when there is change as well. Let's face it, If Apple did decide to make an iPhone with a screen the size of the EVO LTE people would flock to the store to buy it. Everyone that states "I love the size of the iPhone 5" would be standing in line because in reality this screen is among the smallest on the market. Come on, it is okay for a "phone" screen, but as a smartphone that people want for internet, maps, navigation...it is just too small and it is frustrating. Same goes for Android users...they don't admit it, but frankly they want a phone "that works" all the time.

 

It seems very simple to me. Make a big screen iPhone and allow consumers to make the choice. Stop frustrating us with behind the times display sizes. Your phone is awesome except for that. And everyone can chime in here and say "not true" I love the size but I would bet my savings that all of them would be camping out for an iPhone with a screen size like an EVO. Obviously price isn't it since the EVO was $200...the Note 2 is $300. And they can buy cheap mSD cards and expand storage! People will argue about this and defend their stance but come on...make a iPhone that is bigger and see how many Android users convert.

post #75 of 75
Originally Posted by hornsfam View Post
…as a smartphone that people want for internet, maps, navigation…it is just too small and it is frustrating.

 

Nope.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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