or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › John Sculley says Apple needs cheap iPhone for emerging smartphone markets
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

John Sculley says Apple needs cheap iPhone for emerging smartphone markets - Page 3

post #81 of 131
Never again put the company in the hands of a bozo.
--Johnny
Reply
--Johnny
Reply
post #82 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

... Apple did answer the netbook question, with the introduction of the iPad.   ...

 

In the meantime, it's at least somewhat encouraging that most of the posts here, even those who disagree with Sculley such as yourself, disagree only with how Apple will avoid marginalization through its one-size-fits-all form factor it currently offers, but not the value of pursuing other ways of addressing it.

 

It seems we all agree there are ways to regain the lost market share, and it'll be interesting to see how they choose to do it.

 

No, the iPad does not address the netbook question. It's not a different answer to the same question. That's what the Surface is. It's a different answer to a different question. Apple isn't going to have any trouble avoiding "marginalization", because they aren't at risk of marginalization. And, in the cheap cell phone market, which is most of Android, there isn't any lost market share for Apple, just like there wasn't any lost market share for them in the netbook market. Market share that is worthless, isn't market share worth having. Just ask Dell and HP. Why compete for less than table scraps? The ecosystems? There is no ecosystem in the cheap cell phone market.

post #83 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeymantle View Post

Smartphones are becoming a commodity...

 

Cheap smartphones are a commodity, just like cheap computers. There's no reason to be in that market if you want to make money. There's no reason for Apple to sell a "cheap" iPhone.

post #84 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeymantle View Post

Smartphones are becoming a commodity, regardless if Apple doesn't want that to happen.  Apple created the market, now others are moving in.  larger screens, lower cost, Apple cannot sit still and proudly wave their iPhone and take the intellectual high ground while others each up their market share.  Apple needs to keep people in their ecosystem, offering great products, but recognizing that a vast number of people can't afford the "very best."  They need to keep people buying on iTunes and the rest of their stores.  The formula for success is now obvious to others and Apple needs to compete.  And I watched Sculley almost destroy Apple, but he has a point to make here that others have pointed out as well.
And if Tim Cook does this are all the naysayers here going to call for him to be fired? Having a strategy for emerging markets is not equivalent to participating in a race to the bottom. No one here is suggesting Apple start making crappy phones. 1rolleyes.gif
post #85 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

... Steve Jobs said Apple would never sell a computer for 500.00...

 

Steve Jobs never said that.

post #86 of 131
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Cheap smartphones are a commodity, just like cheap computers. There's no reason to be in that market if you want to make money. There's no reason for Apple to sell a "cheap" iPhone.
How exactly are you defining "cheap"? Low cost or low quality? Or are you suggesting for Apple to make a lower cost iPhone it would have to be low quality?
post #87 of 131
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Steve Jobs said Apple would never sell a computer for 500.00…

Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post
Yes he did.

 

Not in the slightest.

 

"We don't know how to make a $500 computer that's not a piece of junk."

—Steve Jobs

—2008

—Referring to laptops only

—Guess they've learned something since then, anyway.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #88 of 131

Hey John, nobody cares. You had your shot.
 

post #89 of 131

Well, that settles it then, doesn't it?

post #90 of 131

deleted


Edited by MacRulez - 5/16/13 at 12:27pm
post #91 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

... Steve Jobs decided to play in a market he said he didn't want to play in which is the low end price point personal computer market. ...

 

 

No he didn't, he created a new market, and the market you're talking about evaporated.

post #92 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Isn't free cheap? It's interesting when I got on Verizon the iPhone 4 is free. All the new Android phones are the same prices as the iPhone 5 with a two year contract. You have the same problem as the other troll thinking you are elite.

 

No, because Verizon isn't getting those phones for free. You pay for it with your contract. The market under discussion is a cheap phone the consumer pays for in a non-contract market. Completely different markets.

post #93 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Products of nearly any kind come in a variety of forms and price points.  Some are high-end, some are low-end, with a good many in between.

 

All cars, regardless how cheap or expensive, run on gas.

 

All smartphones, regardless how cheap or expensive, run apps.

 

You may see Apple's continued declining market share as inevitable, but I disagree.
 

I believe Apple is smarter than you describe.  They will not cede market even more market share to the competition without introducing something that will stop that decline.

 

Let's meet back here in a year and see how it worked out.

 

See you then, you won't be missed.

post #94 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post



How exactly are you defining "cheap"? Low cost or low quality? Or are you suggesting for Apple to make a lower cost iPhone it would have to be low quality?

 

In the context of this discussion, yes. They aren't going to start making the netbooks of smartphones.

post #95 of 131
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post
This was in context when it came to Apple going after the netbook market. On this site there are hundreds if not thousand of posts proclaiming that the iPad is what killed the netbook market. Steve Jobs decided to play in a market he said he didn't want to play in which is the low end price point personal computer market.

 

No, really, you're pretending that netbooks and tablets are the same thing. You're actually doing this.

 

That's like saying, "since the iPhone killed the dumbphone market, the iPhone must be a dumbphone". 

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #96 of 131

I didn't say Apple should make crappy phones, but a less expensive smart phone for what has become a commodity market.  This market is going to get more competitive with BB10, Nokia and others wanting to get in, and where do they get in except at the bottom by offering features for less money.  Let's stop the market erosion and keep consumers in the ecosystem.  As far as what happens to Cook when they come out with this, it will a magnificent strategy properly aimed at its target market to keep Apple in front of their worldwide consumer base, while moving on with new products that continue to impress and create profitable growth.
 

post #97 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeymantle View Post

Smartphones are becoming a commodity, regardless if Apple doesn't want that to happen.  Apple created the market, now others are moving in.  larger screens, lower cost, Apple cannot sit still and proudly wave their iPhone and take the intellectual high ground while others each up their market share.  Apple needs to keep people in their ecosystem, offering great products, but recognizing that a vast number of people can't afford the "very best."  They need to keep people buying on iTunes and the rest of their stores.  The formula for success is now obvious to others and Apple needs to compete.

When has Apple ever done the obvious?

Obvious: exit the hardware business and license your OS to clone makers
Apple: become even more vertically integrated from chips to software

Obvious: shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders
Apple: iMac, Mac OS X, iPod

Obvious: electronics retail is hurting with the closing of circuit city, computer city, CompUSA
Apple: opens and expands the Apple Store

Obvious: "nobody will pay for songs because of rampant piracy"
Apple: iTunes Music Store dominates music retail

Obvious: "Floppy disks and optical drives are so inexpensive, why not include it?"
Apple: removes built-in floppy and optical drives fearlessly

Obvious: USB 3.0, DVI
Apple: Thunderbolt,Thunderbolt

Obvious: integrate iPod functionality into a phone; Motorola ROKR
Apple: iPhone

Obvious: Netbook
Apple: iPad

Obvious: you can't do email on a phone without a physical keyboard
Apple: no physical keyboard

Obvious: tablet should use a stylus in place of a mouse
Apple: tablet should use a multitouch screen with a natively touch UI

Obvious: keep using the 30-pin dock connector as it is a de facto standard
Apple: Lightning connector

Obvious: Pros want 17" laptops with high resolution screens
Apple: ends MacBook Pro 17"

Obvious: the PC market is racing to the bottom and margins are getting razor thin
Apple: still selling Macs over $1000 and $2000

Obvious: sell the iPad Mini for $299
Apple: iPad Mini starts at $329

Obvious: Add touch screen and stylus input to Wintel laptops
Apple: MacBooks keep focused on mouse/keyboard input

Obvious: keep making phone screens larger regardless of how impractical it becomes
Apple: iPhone 5

Obvious: add apps to a TV
Apple: TBD

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #98 of 131

deleted


Edited by MacRulez - 5/16/13 at 12:27pm
post #99 of 131
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post
Obvious: USB 3.0, VGA
Apple: Thunderbolt,Thunderbolt

 

Fixed, embarrassingly (for the rest of the industry).

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #100 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

You just don't do polite conversation, do you?

 

Not with those I don't respect.

post #101 of 131
My opinion is that I don't think this guy is worth listening to.


Luxury customers are Apple's intended audience. These are the same people who don't even think twice about dropping a fortune on a Lexus or buying a multi-milliondollar home. They don't care what the product costs, nor do they care how much money an app costs to "unlock all the hidden costs", which is why developers target the iOS devices. If you want to make money, you target the iOS and Mac OSX devices first.

When you watch television in the US, what do you see? Apple gear. Not Samsung. Samsung has no unique styling that someone could immediately identify and go "Cool that CSI guy uses a Samsung phone, I want one." No instead you see all the cool Apple gear.

Android devices are stuck in an ironic position, being linux devices but not being open. They're subject to a bunch of hypocrisy surrounding GPL and open-source fans. Those that politically believe that their toys should be hackable, and those that believe that because it's hackable, no software is worth paying for.

Take a look at the web statistics of any website. http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php iOS outnumbers Android, 2:1 or better, yet the shipped numbers seem to be reversed. Just where is 50% of the Android phones being shipped going? Some landfill?
post #102 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

That's easy when you have protection behind your computer. Question is are you man enough to do it in person without having your teeth handed too you? You are a tiny little weak man hiding behind is MBP. See how easy it is to stay something stupid and base an opinion on someone because you don't like their view on a stupid Apple enthusiast forum.

 

At least make an attempt to grow up.


Easy guys. Easy. It's a discussion about a f*ckin' phone.

na na na na na...
Reply
na na na na na...
Reply
post #103 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


Easy guys. Easy. It's a discussion about a f*ckin' phone.

 

Pay no attention, he has anger management issues.

post #104 of 131

deleted


Edited by MacRulez - 5/16/13 at 12:27pm
post #105 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Isn't free cheap? It's interesting when I got on Verizon the iPhone 4 is free. All the new Android phones are the same prices as the iPhone 5 with a two year contract. You have the same problem as the other troll thinking you are elite.

Really? So you can get me an iPhone 4 for free? Where? I'll take 5.

Signing a two year contract at a premium price with mandatory data plan is not free. The discussion about low cost phones revolves around developing countries which don't use the "we'll get our money back two fold by hiding the cost in the monthly plan" model.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
post #106 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Having a smaller percentage or wealthy or having a much larger percentage of poor does not mean they don't have a huge number of people that can easily afford Apple's products. Asia-Pacifici now has more millions (based on USD) than the US.

I read somewhere that the middle class in China is greater in numbers (not in percentages, of course) than the US middle class. There's plenty of demand for Apple products in Asia without introducing a loss-leader bargain basement product. The launch of the iPhone 5 demonstrates that quite nicely.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
post #107 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post

I'm more interested in what Gil Amelio has to say...

 

I prefer to take advice from Woz...

post #108 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


This is a good argument for a cheaper iPhone. I personally would love to see Apple completely replace all iPod touches with a cheaper than 5S iPhone.

 

I wouldn't.  The iPod touch still sells in the millions every quarter because there is still significant market demand for a standalone media/internet/gaming device that does not require monthly voice/data plan charges.  Plus, it expands the market reach for iOS to include those segments not covered by the iPhone (e.g., customers on unsupported carriers, prepaid customers, family plan customers on a different platform, customers that do not want cell service, etc.).  Taken just as a gaming device, the iPod touch (and the wi-fi iPad models) competes directly with the PSP and Nintendo DS platforms, while simultaneously supplementing Apple's user base in the mobile OS space.  Android and the other mobile OSes do not have anything equivalent to the iPod touch, or at least anything that sells anywhere near the iPod touch's numbers. 

 

How much cheaper are you thinking?  An iPod touch starts at $200 -- no contract, no monthly fee.  The cheapest unsubsidized iPhone will run you $450. 

 

An iPod touch with the A6 chip starts at $300, while an unsubsidized iPhone 5 starts at $650.  What would Apple need to cut out in order to migrate the iPhone to a price point where it can feasibly replace the iPod touch?

post #109 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

I read somewhere that the middle class in China is greater in numbers (not in percentages, of course) than the US middle class. There's plenty of demand for Apple products in Asia without introducing a loss-leader bargain basement product. The launch of the iPhone 5 demonstrates that quite nicely.

I thought I had read that, too, but couldn't find any source to back it up so I excluded it. What I can say is that the middle class is growing and a fast rate which is a reason Apple (any many other companies) should be focusing more attention on them.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #110 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I thought I had read that, too, but couldn't find any source to back it up so I excluded it. What I can say is that the middle class is growing and a fast rate which is a reason Apple (any many other companies) should be focusing more attention on them.

I mis-stated. It's not just larger than the US Middle Class, it's larger than the entire US population:
http://money.cnn.com/2012/04/25/news/economy/china-middle-class/index.htm

And this sheds some light on the future:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2011/09/05/within-a-generation-china-middle-class-four-times-larger-than-americas/



In the end, it's a mistake to think of China as an impoverished country full of drones.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
post #111 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

 

Cheap smartphones are a commodity, just like cheap computers. There's no reason to be in that market if you want to make money. There's no reason for Apple to sell a "cheap" iPhone.


Actually, I think you'll find that the Apps are the reason to be in the market.

 

If 95% of the worlds phones run a 'commodity' Android phone, how do you think the app market place will end up?  Will people make the iPhone #1 when developing apps? 

 

Therefore to make iOS the platform standard that continues to be developed on first, you have to have massive market share.  Therefore you need to be selling a phone that makes it the standard and is a revenue generator from the hundreds of millions (even billions) of users buying apps.

post #112 of 131
Originally Posted by realwarder View Post
Actually, I think you'll find that the Apps are the reason to be in the market.

 

So why would Apple make a phone that can't run them?


If 95% of the worlds phones run a 'commodity' Android phone, how do you think the app market place will end up?  Will people make the iPhone #1 when developing apps? 


Well, depending on whose numbers you believe, iOS has 1/2 to 1/3 the marketshare of Android. And yet developers make more money on, have less piracy on, are more satisfied with, and flock toward iOS, rather than Android.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #113 of 131
This guy dosn't give a damn about what the world thinks of him. I'll give him that.
post #114 of 131
Yes, this is exactly what Apple needs after Steve Jobs is gone, advice from Sculley.
post #115 of 131

The issue is not should Apple make a 'cheap iPhone' it's how does Apple address emerging markets were carriers do not subsidize the purchase of the device? 

 

I worked at Apple when Scully was CEO and quite frankly he did not identify Apple's real problem at the time. It wasn't that Apple couldn't compete on price with the PC manufacturers. It's that Apple quit innovating and lost it's differentiation to 'Wintel'.

 

Frankly, I trust Apple's current management to make the right decision here. Steve Jobs is never coming back, but Apple still has highly talented employees who are dedicated to carrying on Jobs vision. BTW, if anyone wants an autographed copy of Scully's book let me know 1wink.gif

post #116 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by realwarder View Post


Actually, I think you'll find that the Apps are the reason to be in the market.

If 95% of the worlds phones run a 'commodity' Android phone, how do you think the app market place will end up?  Will people make the iPhone #1 when developing apps? 

Therefore to make iOS the platform standard that continues to be developed on first, you have to have massive market share.  Therefore you need to be selling a phone that makes it the standard and is a revenue generator from the hundreds of millions (even billions) of users buying apps.

U wanna talk iOS market share, you'll have to add the touch and the iPad as well. Combined, the android advantage is non existent.
post #117 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by karmadave View Post

The issue is not should Apple make a 'cheap iPhone' it's how does Apple address emerging markets were carriers do not subsidize the purchase of the device? 

I worked at Apple when Scully was CEO and quite frankly he did not identify Apple's real problem at the time. It wasn't that Apple couldn't compete on price with the PC manufacturers. It's that Apple quit innovating and lost it's differentiation to 'Wintel'.

Frankly, I trust Apple's current management to make the right decision here. Steve Jobs is never coming back, but Apple still has highly talented employees who are dedicated to carrying on Jobs vision. BTW, if anyone wants an autographed copy of Scully's book let me know 1wink.gif
Don't have to like Scully. Doesn't mean everything that comes out of his mouth is wrong. His general point about Apple needing a strategy for markets where there aren't phone subsidies is a good one.
post #118 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Don't have to like Scully. Doesn't mean everything that comes out of his mouth is wrong. His general point about Apple needing a strategy for markets where there aren't phone subsidies is a good one.

Tim Cook said in 2009 Apple had developed a strategy for emerging markets. I'm sure the deal with China Mobile and the potential R&D facilities in China are crucial to that.

 

If Apple makes a low cost phone its not going to be for emerging markets exclusively so the idea analyst and people have of Apple making an all plastic phone to sell in China and India is rather ludicrous.

 

When Apple makes a more affordable iPhone its going be of the same high quality of all of Apple's products and people will want to buy it because it's a well made product with beautiful materials and an easy to use OS.

 

Scully simply wouldn't have the vision for that, but I believe Tim Cook does.

post #119 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Don't have to like Scully. Doesn't mean everything that comes out of his mouth is wrong. His general point about Apple needing a strategy for markets where there aren't phone subsidies is a good one.

I actually liked Scully personally but disagreed with him then and disagree with him now. His decision to make 'cheap' Macintoshes, sold through discount retailers, was a disaster.

If Apple can deliver an iPhone for emerging markets, with the same high quality standards, then more power to them. If they build a 'cheap iPhone' it may benefit them in the short run but in the long-run it will hurt Apple's brand.
post #120 of 131

Why do people even interview the guy?

"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever." - David St. Hubbins
Reply
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever." - David St. Hubbins
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Discussion
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › John Sculley says Apple needs cheap iPhone for emerging smartphone markets