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Home button fingerprint sensor in 'iPhone 5S' would give Apple a new leg up on the competition

post #1 of 127
Thread Starter 
Apple is expected to launch a new iPhone this year with a fingerprint sensor hidden beneath the home button ??an intuitive design that could be difficult for competing Android and Windows Phone devices to copy.

Fingerprint


Analyst Ming-Chi Kuo of KGI Securities expects Apple's acquisition of AuthenTec to pay off this year with the so-called "iPhone 5S," the company's anticipated next-generation handset. He believes Apple will find a way to integrate the fingerprint sensor into the home button, allowing Apple to keep its "minimalist design."

In contrast, many Android and Windows Phone devices have more than one button below the display, and those buttons frequently lack the mechanical push of Apple's home button. As a result, attempts to integrate fingerprint scanning on competing devices would be less intuitive, and could frustrate users, Kuo said.

He believes that with the addition of a fingerprint sensor below the iPhone's home button, Apple will be able to replace the use of usernames and passwords, allowing users to authenticate in a more efficient manner. He also expects that the fingerprint scanner will integrate with applications such as Passbook to enhance their functionality.

Kuo has a particularly strong track record in predicting Apple's future product pipeline. Last year, the analyst accurately forecast the company's entire fall lineup, including the taller design of the iPhone 5 and iPod touch, thinner iMacs, the iPad mini, and the fourth-generation iPad with Lightning connector.

Predictions


Beyond the "iPhone 5S," Kuo expects a new handset based on the iPhone 5 design will also launch this year. Kuo's comments are in line with recent rumors, that have pegged Apple as planning to release a more affordable iPhone model this year targeted at emerging markets.

Kuo believes the less expensive iPhone 5 will feature a new design, including a plastic casing, to cut costs and expand Apple's iPhone lineup.

The analyst has also predicted that the iPad mini will gain a Retina display in 2013, while the full-size iPad will sport a lighter and thinner design with a smaller bezel. He also expects new Retina MacBook Pros with cheaper prices, the discontinuation of the legacy MacBook Pros, and a refresh to the Apple TV set-top box ? but no full-fledged television set this year.
post #2 of 127

OK, I'll give the guy some slack because he's accurately predicted stuff in the past.  However, With this fingerprint reader.  Unless every website, every program, every piece of hardware that you use integrates this technology, it's not going to work.  For this to completely replace usernames and passwords, there will have to be a lot of up-front work on the user's part and the developer's as well.  you're still going to need back-up passwords and usernames for cases where you don't have your phone (like on a PC/Mac) or internet cafe.  It's just too complex of a situation.

 

That being said, If Apple would be the first to go completely password-less in 2013 (within it's native ecosystem), they're going to have to refresh every product they make with the technology to really get full adoption, and even then it's going to be a "Beta"-like situation.  I can see that happening given other services Apple has done this way (Siri).

 

You know, honestly, if they were to integrate this in 2013...I just don't know.  It's just like Siri, or Maps...Guys...fix the known issues and improve the native features you already have.  Sand the back-sides of the drawers first.  They keep diving into new territory without fixing the know issues first.  Good enough is just not good enough.


Edited by antkm1 - 1/16/13 at 6:16am
post #3 of 127
So now this analyst is a UX expert?
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #4 of 127
Highly intriguing rumour, would be a good way to secure your phone. If Apple was to release this and slowly increase the functionality as it matures they'd do very well I think.
iPad, Macbook Pro, iPhone, heck I even have iLife! :-)
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iPad, Macbook Pro, iPhone, heck I even have iLife! :-)
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post #5 of 127
uh fingerprint sensor ??? Where is your NFC, iPhone?
post #6 of 127
Maybe "S" will stand for security this time around?
post #7 of 127

Well, he might be right but I see that the Mac Pro is missing from his schedule...

 

Not sure I agree that the non retina pros go away.  Nice to see the mac mini on the list for a refresh and that he expect a retina iPad mini

 

We'll see how his record looks at the end of this year.

post #8 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

OK, I'll give the guy some slack because he's accurately predicted stuff in the past.  However, With this fingerprint reader.  Unless every website, every program, every piece of hardware that you use integrates this technology, it's not going to work.  For this to completely replace usernames and passwords, there will have to be a lot of up-front work on the user's part and the developer's as well.  you're still going to need back-up passwords and usernames for cases where you don't have your phone (like on a PC/Mac) or internet cafe.  It's just too complex of a situation.

That being said, If Apple would be the first to go completely password-less in 2013 (within it's native ecosystem), they're going to have to refresh every product they make with the technology to really get full adoption, and even then it's going to be a "Beta"-like situation.  I can see that happening given other services Apple has done this way (Siri).

You know, honestly, if they were to integrate this in 2013...I just don't know.  It's just like Siri, or Maps...guys fix the known issues and improve the native features you already have.  Sand the back-sides of the drawers first.  They keep diving into new territory without fixing the know issues first.  Good enough is just not good enough.

Apple doesn't have to replace passwords everywhere. Maybe they could just use auto fill like in OS X on websites and apps that require passwords and personal information and use the finger print scanner as confirmation.

That would be pretty intuitive and the software would be smart enough to make the whole password-less environment work.
post #9 of 127

Haha! to the guy who claims to know how this tech even integrates and then how Apple will implement it!

 

The internet "comment" feature has made people so cavalier with their ignorance.  The ability to say something on a topic in no way enhances your knowledge on said topic.

 

I'll be the first to admit that ALL I KNOW is that this [previously] AuthenTec fingerprint reader uses radio frequency instead of optics to "image" the finger's ridges and that THAT is pretty exciting from a tech and patent (therefore business) standpoint, Samsung.

 

Apple had been trying to work out licensing agreements but then, in a very drastic move, simply bought out this entire company and suspended all licensing deals to other companies ... And when they did all this, they mandated that press releases to the general news media were not made.  I've been anxious to hear more about this for months.

post #10 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

Well, he might be right but I see that the Mac Pro is missing from his schedule...

Not sure I agree that the non retina pros go away.  Nice to see the mac mini on the list for a refresh and that he expect a retina iPad mini

We'll see what his record looks at the end of this year.

Even if he ends up 50/50 he's still more reliable than every other analyst combined.
post #11 of 127

I hope this isn't true.  It would make far more sense to integrate it into the screen.  

 

Especially since they just spent millions buying a company with world-leading technology that does exactly that.  

post #12 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

Even if he ends up 50/50 he's still more reliable than every other analyst combined.

 

The thing about Apple and inside sources is that being consistently accurate is probably a good way of getting your source fired.  :)

post #13 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

I hope this isn't true.  It would make far more sense to integrate it into the screen.  

 

Especially since they just spent millions buying a company with world-leading technology that does exactly that.  

Agree!  The point about other companies not being able to copycat is still valid, but you're exactly right.

post #14 of 127
Current Android phones are moving to a zero button (on front) approach, with soft-buttons on the UI instead.

Plenty of room for a manufacturer to put a fingerprint reader in. And surely there are phones with such things integrated already!

I presume that the fingerprint reader would integrate with a secure password manager on the phone to manage login forms.

It will also work as a means to id the user unlocking the phone, and on a multi-account device (supported by Android already) would auto-select the user.
post #15 of 127
Uh.... What the heck!? Have I wandered into the website for MingchikuoInsider?

Enough with this analyst bs.
post #16 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

OK, I'll give the guy some slack because he's accurately predicted stuff in the past.  However, With this fingerprint reader.  Unless every website, every program, every piece of hardware that you use integrates this technology, it's not going to work.  For this to completely replace usernames and passwords, there will have to be a lot of up-front work on the user's part and the developer's as well.  you're still going to need back-up passwords and usernames for cases where you don't have your phone (like on a PC/Mac) or internet cafe.  It's just too complex of a situation.

That being said, If Apple would be the first to go completely password-less in 2013 (within it's native ecosystem), they're going to have to refresh every product they make with the technology to really get full adoption, and even then it's going to be a "Beta"-like situation.  I can see that happening given other services Apple has done this way (Siri).

You know, honestly, if they were to integrate this in 2013...I just don't know.  It's just like Siri, or Maps...guys fix the known issues and improve the native features you already have.  Sand the back-sides of the drawers first.  They keep diving into new territory without fixing the know issues first.  Good enough is just not good enough.

Regarding your first point, I don't see that as being all that complex. Think of the fingerprint as an alias linked via a new form of Keychain, or whatever they have cooked up assuming this is true, to the internally stored written password.
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Enjoying the new Mac Pro ... it's smokin'
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini.
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post #17 of 127

I stopped reading the second I saw the image. Clearly the analyst missed the boat Android by default uses on screen buttons these days and more OEMs are moving that way, so that whole point was moot. Either way, not seeing fingerprint as the next big thing for the phone, only a gimmick one step  above face unlock.

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I'm not a pessimist. I'm an optimist, with experience.
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post #18 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

OK, I'll give the guy some slack because he's accurately predicted stuff in the past.  However, With this fingerprint reader.  Unless every website, every program, every piece of hardware that you use integrates this technology, it's not going to work.  For this to completely replace usernames and passwords, there will have to be a lot of up-front work on the user's part and the developer's as well.  you're still going to need back-up passwords and usernames for cases where you don't have your phone (like on a PC/Mac) or internet cafe.  It's just too complex of a situation. ...

 

I don't think this is necessarily right, but I don't think the presence of a fingerprint scanner necessarily leads to the conclusion that "all passwords will be replaced" either, so I think the whole premise is wrong.  The way I see it, the fingerprint scanner is just adding a secure identity to the iPhone.  It's an extension of the Passport feature.  If I already have my credit card connected to my Apple ID (and most people do), and then I connect a fingerprint scanner to that, that results in a complete replacement for the whole NFC idea doesn't it?  Only without the security risks of NFC.  

 

I could easily see Passport morphing into a system wherein you can actually buy things with it or get money from it.  It could have happened already except for worries about security.  This would eliminate those worries.  

 

There are other benefits also.  Your phone could tell when you were not the person operating it for example and raise an alarm.   

post #19 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo Dawkins View Post

uh fingerprint sensor ??? Where is your NFC, iPhone?

Why does one need NFC? It's not like there aren't other one thousand convenient ways for a seller to part you and your money.

post #20 of 127
Nothing new.
 
Fingerprint scanners have been used on handhelds since before 2000.   They come and go in popularity every five years or so.
 
Heck, the 2007 Toshiba Portégé G900 (the first retina screen smartphone) had a fingerprint scanner which not only could be used to unlock the phone, but you could even set it up so that each finger launched a different application.   It could also be used for scrolling.  Pretty slick.

What Apple would probably use it for, is to confirm the user when making electronic payments, picking up tickets, etc.
post #21 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


Regarding your first point, I don't see that as being all that complex. Think of the fingerprint as an alias linked via a new form of Keychain, or whatever they have cooked up assuming this is true, to the internally stored written password.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

I don't think this is necessarily right, but I don't think the presence of a fingerprint scanner necessarily leads to the conclusion that "all passwords will be replaced" either, so I think the whole premise is wrong.  The way I see it, the fingerprint scanner is just adding a secure identity to the iPhone.  It's an extension of the Passport feature.  If I already have my credit card connected to my Apple ID (and most people do), and then I connect a fingerprint scanner to that, that results in a complete replacement for the whole NFC idea doesn't it?  Only without the security risks of NFC.  

 

I could easily see Passport morphing into a system wherein you can actually buy things with it or get money from it.  It could have happened already except for worries about security.  This would eliminate those worries.  

 

There are other benefits also.  Your phone could tell when you were not the person operating it for example and raise an alarm.   

I think you're both missing the point.  Sure, the fingerprint scan can easily be linked back to keychain or whatever.  But currently, the iPhone doesn't use keychain, and i think it would be a major security risk at this point if they did.  Now I will agree that if the FP scan is mainly just an added level of security, I could see it working.  But that's not the point I was trying to make.

 

My point was, for this technology to truly be useful and a technology that solves the exponentially increasing problem of password inflation and over-saturation, it's going to have to be a much more rich system...one which must completely replace the Username/Password system.  And I think that's why FP tech has not provided such a solution.  Nobody wants to spend the R&D on developing it as a replacement.  Adding an extra level of security is fine.  We've seen this on Laptops and PC accessories for years and it hasn't revolutionized the way we login to things.  And that's the point.  Adding yet another pointless feature to the iPhone isn't going to revolutionize anything.  And I just don't see this as a step forward for Apple.

 

Now with Passbook (i think you mean to say)...I agree, I think that could be a really great alternative to services like PayPal.  To me, the current Passbook is kind of a mess.  I kind of expected it to be like an NFC tech, but it's really not that great.  You're supposed to store things like tickets and boarding passes and coupons...that's great but you end up having a billion apps on your phone that have to integrate into Passbook.  And sure you can store them in a folder, but then you're using up all your available storage to do this.  The only thing I would use this for is coupons and boarding passes, however, I have not had an once of success with Boarding passes because I fly Internationally primarily and you need to check-in.  Coupon don't seems to work for me either.  It just becomes one of those apps (like Newsstand) that gets shoved on a back screen to be lost.


Edited by antkm1 - 1/16/13 at 6:36am
post #22 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo Dawkins View Post

uh fingerprint sensor ??? Where is your NFC, iPhone?

 

Apple will put it in when it makes sense, and not before. Right now, what are its uses, besides Galaxy S3 users sharing self-made porn videos like on that silly commercial? There are also security concerns with NFC right now. Even Google hasn't been able to make much use for it. Google Wallet isn't exactly setting the world on fire.

post #23 of 127
Android is moving to edge-to-edge screens with soft buttons. I do not think the home button has a long life to live as it occupies priceless real estate preventing from further screen size increase.

What apple might do is to put the sensor on the back side of the iPhone...
post #24 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by KPOM View Post

 

Apple will put it in when it makes sense, and not before. Right now, what are its uses, besides Galaxy S3 users sharing self-made porn videos like on that silly commercial? There are also security concerns with NFC right now. Even Google hasn't been able to make much use for it. Google Wallet isn't exactly setting the world on fire.

 

Depends on where you live and your lifestyle, I think.

 

For example, my family in Florida uses NFC every day.   Gas, Fast food.  Home Depot.  I think even their grocery store.   So it works well for them.

 

My stepdaughter loves it, since she has a young kid and she hates carrying a pocketbook around, but does usually have her phone in one hand all the time.

 

(Personally, I'd love it if the grocery in my little town supported it, but no such luck yet.)

 

I keep saying that it won't really take off until we can also keep our driver's license in our phone.  When that happens, and I can pay everywhere with NFC, the need for a wallet starts to disappear.

post #25 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

I think you're both missing the point.  Sure, the fingerprint scan can easily be linked back to keychain or whatever.  But currently, the iPhone doesn't use keychain, and i think it would be a major security risk at this point if they did. 

 

 

Why would using keychain become a security risk?

 

Quote:

 Now I will agree that if the FP scan is mainly just an added level of security, I could see it working.  But that's not the point I was trying to make.

 

It's potentially a big addition to security since it allows two factor authentication without that much more hassle IF it works consistently.

post #26 of 127

Don't forget that the devices that have the finger-print technology incorporated into the screen have been very heavy, large, and bulky, which is definitely not Apple's style for their products.  Incorporating it into the home button would definitely make sense, at least for the first few generations.

 

As far as the fact that everybody uses usernames and passwords, couldn't an encrypted keychain of passwords be stored on the device and autofill used when the phone "knows" it's you through use of the finger-print scanner?  

post #27 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

OK, I'll give the guy some slack because he's accurately predicted stuff in the past.  However, With this fingerprint reader.  Unless every website, every program, every piece of hardware that you use integrates this technology, it's not going to work. 

 

 

You just need to replace the Master password for the password vault like LastPass.  Besides fingerprint reader, there are many other applications.  For example, they could make the stylus more accurate on a capacitive touch screen.

post #28 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

Now with Passbook (i think you mean to say)...I agree, I think that could be a really great alternative to services like PayPal.  To me, the current Passbook is kind of a mess.  I kind of expected it to be like an NFC tech, but it's really not that great.  You're supposed to store things like tickets and boarding passes and coupons...that's great but you end up having a billion apps on your phone that have to integrate into Passbook.  And sure you can store them in a folder, but then you're using up all your available storage to do this.  The only thing I would use this for is coupons and boarding passes, however, I have not had an once of success with Boarding passes because I fly Internationally primarily and you need to check-in.  Coupon don't seems to work for me either.  It just becomes one of those apps (like Newsstand) that gets shoved on a back screen to be lost.

 

I agree with you on Passbook.

 

Great concept horrible execution.

post #29 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by appleistheway View Post

Don't forget that the devices that have the finger-print technology incorporated into the screen have been very heavy, large, and bulky, which is definitely not Apple's style for their products.  Incorporating it into the home button would definitely make sense, at least for the first few generations.

 

As far as the fact that everybody uses usernames and passwords, couldn't an encrypted keychain of passwords be stored on the device and autofill used when the phone "knows" it's you through use of the finger-print scanner?  

 

I think that would be the most likely use of the technology.

 

"Introducing iOS 7 with keychains..."

post #30 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

 

 

Why would using keychain become a security risk?

 

 

It's potentially a big addition to security since it allows two factor authentication without that much more hassle IF it works consistently.

I'm no expert on iOS security, but I would assume that since Keychain isn't currently integrated into iOS, there must be over-arching security issues involved with it.  My guess would be phone hacking, since it has been a past issue to some but not all.

post #31 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

 

I agree with you on Passbook.

 

Great concept horrible execution.

even though it's off topic (Passbook bitching that is)...Another great feature I'd love to see come to Passbook are loyalty cards.  I have a billion of those that get lost in my wallet or i just don't have at the time i'm in a store that I'd love for Apple to take initiative with.

post #32 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Kuo's comments are in line with recent rumors,

 

or are they BASED on recent rumors?

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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post #33 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

even though it's off topic (Passbook bitching that is)...Another great feature I'd love to see come to Passbook are loyalty cards.  I have a billion of those that get lost in my wallet or i just don't have at the time i'm in a store that I'd love for Apple to take initiative with.

30%. 'nuf said.

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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post #34 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hattig View Post

I presume that the fingerprint reader would integrate with a secure password manager on the phone to manage login forms.
 

Yes. This is so obvious. 

That other posters comment on how the sensor would not work with web logins was just dumb.

post #35 of 127

No, it would give a gimmick up on the competition.


Explain how this crap makes my life better or shut up and keep it to yourself.

 

Analysts…

Originally posted by Relic

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Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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post #36 of 127

If Apple were to replace the username/password system on the web, this would be HUGE!

I doubt it will happen, but I can always hope. This is the kind of big picture solutions they should be going after.

post #37 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

No, it would give a gimmick up on the competition.


Explain how this crap makes my life better or shut up and keep it to yourself.

 

Analysts…

The username/password system is totally insecure, cumbersome, and a complete failure.

Ask any company how much money they waste resetting passwords, and I would guess it is a stratospheric number.

post #38 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

even though it's off topic (Passbook bitching that is)...Another great feature I'd love to see come to Passbook are loyalty cards.  I have a billion of those that get lost in my wallet or i just don't have at the time i'm in a store that I'd love for Apple to take initiative with.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post

30%. 'nuf said.

 

That would be the perfect use of Passbook, especially in its current form. The only problem is retailers have been extremely lukewarm about Passbook adoption.

 

Walgreens is the only one that currently has their rewards store card available on passbook. If most national retailers would hop on the bandwagon and have their store cards (in particular grocery stores) that would make Passbook so much more useful.

 

And it has nothing to do with Apple's 30% cut. They are currently making NO MONEY on Passbook whatsoever. They need to make the app more worthwhile or else it will continue to be lumped up in the failures of iOS 6. 

post #39 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifij775 View Post

If Apple were to replace the username/password system on the web, this would be HUGE!

I doubt it will happen, but I can always hope. This is the kind of big picture solutions they should be going after.

 

 

That will probably never happen.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

No, it would give a gimmick up on the competition.


Explain how this crap makes my life better or shut up and keep it to yourself.

 

Analysts…

 

Even so I would not be surprised at all if Apple unveils a finger print system as the special feature of the 5S. I'm just afraid that as you said it'll become a gimmick that no one uses like Passbook.
post #40 of 127
Originally Posted by ifij775 View Post
The username/password system is totally insecure, cumbersome, and a complete failure.

 

In what way?


Ask any company how much money they waste resetting passwords, and I would guess it is a stratospheric number.

 

How is that even possible? And why would a far more insecure system of fingerprinting be any safer? They're crazy simple to trick locally.

 

And hacking the [other-end system], just like any attack based in text passwords, and you'd still get passcodes from everyone.

Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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Originally posted by Relic

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