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Opera unveils new 'Ice' mobile web browser for iOS and Android - Page 2

post #41 of 78
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post
I think the question is just how do you get Youtube videos to work in Safari at all. Do you have to install an extension of some kind, and why does it not work just using HTML5?

 

Oh, it does! You don't need anything involving Flash, either vanilla or the Click2 variety. But apparently Google still hasn't made an HTML5 version of every video they have up, so he's having trouble seeing what he wants to see.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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post #42 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I'm still lost. YT has a switch you can enable so it will bypass Flash on any browser, including Chrome. I've never had YT video problems in YT. It's the only place that videos have always worked well.

I don't have Flash installed on my Mac. It's part of Chrome and I have Chrome as a backup but my Safari browser has no Flash plug-in installed. Well, until today so I just rant these tests, but it'll be removed shortly.

Where?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


TS already sent you the link for enabling HTML5 from YT. That's without any extensions.

I am curious why you are against any Safari extensions. If you have Flash installed you are clearly fine with plug-ins but you aren't with extensions? I don't get that.

Here is what Safari v6.0.2 with the Click2Flash v2.7.2 extension installed and active looks like on ML v10.8.2.

As you can see you have the Safari native controls for a video embedded within the HTML5 video tags. I have right-clicked on the window to show you additional options. As you can see the Click2Flash extension allows for for the easy download of the file.

I do not have flash installed. Extensions make the browser slower and I just love the browser the way it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

I guess hit "Join" here

Where is the button? There isn't a "join" button. I go to that page, but every time search for a video it isn't html5. I also didn't understand how to play YT videos on quicktime without extensions. Can you explain that please?

post #43 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

Everything about their products seems different from others, but never for a good reason.  

One always gets the impression that they are chasing difference for different's sake alone. 

 

It is called Scandinavian design. It is different from things that are not Scandinavian, but not for the sake of being different. 

post #44 of 78
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post
Where is the button? There isn't a "join" button. I go to that page, but every time search for a video it isn't html5.

 

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #45 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

Where?
I do not have flash installed. Extensions make the browser slower and I just love the browser the way it is.
Where is the button? There isn't a "join" button. I go to that page, but every time search for a video it isn't html5. I also didn't understand how to play YT videos on quicktime without extensions. Can you explain that please?

1) www.youtube.com/html5 just as TS linked to.

2) Click the link on the site to join.



3) Play videos. There is no option from YouTube to pull the video out of the browser to play it in the QuickTime app nor do I understand why you would want to do that.


edit: Pipped by TS but leaving it in due to the odd communication issue in this thread.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #46 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Interesting... it doesn't appear. Maybe I already "joined"? If I did, html5 support on YT is a disgrace.

*ok, i was wrong. looks like i joined already. I can't play a 10th of the videos i want. I don't get it.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


1) www.youtube.com/html5 just as TS linked to.

2) Click the link on the site to join.



3) Play videos. There is no option from YouTube to pull the video out of the browser to play it in the QuickTime app nor do I understand why you would want to do that.


edit: Pipped by TS but leaving it in due to the odd communication issue in this thread.
 
Well, I just love cycling (and other sports) and watch it all year. with quicktime or any other player, i should be able to view the feeds/stream right (if i can use them to watch YT videos)?

*for example, looks like vlc can open/view streams.

*same with MplayerX, my favourite.

 

however, everytime i try to open an URL, i get error.


Edited by pedromartins - 1/19/13 at 9:54am
post #47 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

Interesting... it doesn't appear. Maybe I already "joined"? If I did, html5 support on YT is a disgrace.
*ok, i was wrong. looks like i joined already. I can't play a 10th of the videos i want. I don't get it.

*for example, looks like vlc can open/view streams.
*same with MplayerX, my favourite.

however, everytime i try to open an URL, i get error.

Why don't you post some of these URLs you say won't play in an HTML5-capable browser.
Edited by SolipsismX - 1/19/13 at 11:34am

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #48 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

Not all videos, but the majority is html5.

 

Fixed, sometime around 2010.

Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
post #49 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Why don't you post some of these URLs you say won't play in an HTML5-capable browser.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qTIGg3I5y8

(very important) :)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYR_2GD9CtI

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j25IjHHOnpI

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEWD-mZSuKk

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4rJqm-AiPM

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuUu5D4zRoo

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8-4IKUntko

 

For example. (random videos of some channels i have.)

 

What about streams and feeds? (thanks for trying to help me)

post #50 of 78

Because Safari isn't specifically designed for screen formats seen on popular smartphones and tablets?

post #51 of 78

I checked every single one of those videos and tried various combinations of enabling/disabling HTML5 for YouTube, ClickToPlugin and ClickToFlash. I didn't have Flash installed at all. In all case it would up the old-timer analog TV snow with the message to install Flash. This is either a bug from Google or most likely intended behavior even for those that don't want to use the Flash plugin for YT videos.

I was able to get the audio to play — but no video, still the snow and message to install Flash — when I had the HTML5 test -and- ClickToPlugin enabled.

It looks like your only options are to:

  1. Not install the Flash plugin, insead use Chrome for those videos. A simple method that is fairly unknown is to drag the Favicon from Safari to the Chrome icon in the Dock to autoload that URL currently in Safari.
  2. Change your User Agent to Firefox, Chrome or iPad to make it work with just the HTML5 option enabled in YT. This will not work will all videos as the uploader has to enable it.
  3. Install the Flash plugin but keep the HTML5 test on so that Flash is never called.


edit: Because I can get other browsers to work but not Safari (or Opera) the issue might not be with Google's tech or an artificial limitation. It may be that those are videos with ads. When I play the Share It Maybe video in Firefox and Chrome it tries to overlay ads. As you can see they are still working on getting the ad overlays to work properly.


Edited by SolipsismX - 1/19/13 at 12:32pm

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #52 of 78
"...the platform will be leveraged to generate users that will eventually be migrated over to new mobile apps." Wow, that really makes the future of Opera Mini clear and unambiguous guys, thanks.
post #53 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I checked every single one of those videos and tried various combinations of enabling/disabling HTML5 for YouTube, ClickToPlugin and ClickToFlash. I didn't have Flash installed at all. In all case it would up the old-timer analog TV snow with the message to install Flash. This is either a bug from Google or most likely intended behavior even for those that don't want to use the Flash plugin for YT videos.

I was able to get the audio to play — but no video, still the snow and message to install Flash — when I had the HTML5 test -and- ClickToPlugin enabled.

 

So - yes - this is exactly the behavior that I see, and it seems completely independent of being in or out of the HTML5 trial, hence my original question. Currently I cannot find any videos on YouTube that work in Safari without adding extensions.

post #54 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

 

So - yes - this is exactly the behavior that I see, and it seems completely independent of being in or out of the HTML5 trial, hence my original question. Currently I cannot find any videos on YouTube that work in Safari without adding extensions.

There are some, especially videos related to music.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VuN0g2zkrI

(my favourite video on youtube)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6R_1Y_v14I8

(amy)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q7Zv_d409Y

(roger walkers)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbhmT1SMAlk

(heck, even this one plays. Very hot stuff)

 

Pretty much all concerts and similar stuff are html5.

Then you have Apple ads, etc.

 

The thing is, I truly wanted live streams and feeds without flash, but i can't test it because MplayerX has a bug with URLs. Can you help me? Do you have vlc? 

 

*it makes me sick that most tech channels are flash only.

post #55 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

 

So - yes - this is exactly the behavior that I see, and it seems completely independent of being in or out of the HTML5 trial, hence my original question. Currently I cannot find any videos on YouTube that work in Safari without adding extensions.

There are some, especially videos related to music.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VuN0g2zkrI

(my favourite video on youtube)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6R_1Y_v14I8

(amy)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q7Zv_d409Y

(roger walkers)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbhmT1SMAlk

(heck, even this one plays. Very hot stuff)

 

Pretty much all concerts and similar stuff are html5.

Then you have Apple ads, etc.

 

The thing is, I truly wanted live streams and feeds without flash, but i can't test it because MplayerX has a bug with URLs. Can you help me? Do you have vlc? 

 

*it makes me sick that most tech channels are flash only.

 

OK - those do work. I was just trying a selection from the "most popular" list, and everything was failing.

post #56 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

 

OK - those do work. I was just trying a selection from the "most popular" list, and everything was failing.

I think it is on propose, I really do. Create a gmail account and look how many steps and small checkboxes you have to click to:delete your account, make emails sent to gmail to your main account so you do not have to use gmail (iCloud), what happens when you open google.com on some browser ("install a faster and better browser, chrome!"), etc.

 

Then download random programs (like adobe reader, utorrent, etc) and you have a checkbox to install chrome, and you must uncheck TO NOT install it.

 

For me, they use the same BS strategy on youtube for us to install flash, just like adobe does/did with reader/chrome.

post #57 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

The thing is, I truly wanted live streams and feeds without flash, but i can't test it because MplayerX has a bug with URLs. Can you help me? Do you have vlc? 

*it makes me sick that most tech channels are flash only.

You lost me again. I just tried the Cookie Monster video in VLC on Mac OS X and it plays fine. Why not use it if MPlayerX isn't working?

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #58 of 78
You know, every single time i use Safari on my iPad (or iPhone) I'm just completely dumb-founded as to why they haven't implemented a swipe to go back gesture, like on the desktop, or a pinch out to go into back mode, again, like on the desktop, when both of these things are infinitely more useful, faster, and intuitive using touch. Its just absolutely ridiculous that to go back you need to make such a careful, tiresome motion, moving your finger to hit a tiny button in the top left of the screen, sand same thing with tabs, which are so tiny and shitty touch points. I'd pay money for a safari with these 2 features, because quite honestly it would make the browsing experience so much more enjoyable. Absolutely, stunningly, ridiculous. I assume this stuff would at least be added in ios6 - but no. Apparently, it has more priority on the desktop, which makes absolutely no sense.
post #59 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


You lost me again. I just tried the Cookie Monster video in VLC on Mac OS X and it plays fine. Why not use it if MPlayerX isn't working?

I will give it a try. The thing is that MPlayerX is just a superior player and every single way you look at it, plus it's on the App Store and that's great. It's just this annoying bug... Anyway, thanks for your help. You make this place a better place.

post #60 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

The thing is that MPlayerX is just a superior player and every single way you look at it...

I can think of one way VLC is better. 1biggrin.gif

BTW, I've tested with success all the videos from post #49 with a 100% success rate. Complete fail in both MPlayerX and QuickTimeX. Must be the 'X' since that's the common factor.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #61 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

You know, every single time i use Safari on my iPad (or iPhone) I'm just completely dumb-founded as to why they haven't implemented a swipe to go back gesture, like on the desktop, or a pinch out to go into back mode, again, like on the desktop, when both of these things are infinitely more useful, faster, and intuitive using touch. Its just absolutely ridiculous that to go back you need to make such a careful, tiresome motion, moving your finger to hit a tiny button in the top left of the screen, sand same thing with tabs, which are so tiny and shitty touch points. I'd pay money for a safari with these 2 features, because quite honestly it would make the browsing experience so much more enjoyable. Absolutely, stunningly, ridiculous. I assume this stuff would at least be added in ios6 - but no. Apparently, it has more priority on the desktop, which makes absolutely no sense.

You are right.

 

Makes no sense be on the desktop first, but with Apple's trackpad those gestures makes safari for mac the best browsing experience we can get on a desktop, nothing comes close.

 

However I agree that we should have it on the iPad since day 1. At least Opera will "make" them implement this sort of things faster.

post #62 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I can think of one way VLC is better. 1biggrin.gif

C'mon, I'm ready :) (is it because of the URL bug? looks like it only happens on 10.8.2. A quick fix will come)

post #63 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I can think of one way VLC is better. 1biggrin.gif

BTW, I've tested with success all the videos from post #49 with a 100% success rate. Complete fail in both MPlayerX and QuickTimeX. Must be the 'X' since that's the common factor.

That's just a bug (MplayerX).

 

Besides, I "can't" use VLC anymore. MplayerX UI, amazing and useful gestures, ability to always maintain aspect ratio when resizing the video, ability to remember when you last stopped (even when you close the app and open again), ability to go from ep1 to ep2 to ep3 (etc) automatically, makes MplayerX much superior, especially when you consider that it even plays more formats than VLC...

 

When this bug is fixed, it's 100-0.

post #64 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I can think of one way VLC is better. 1biggrin.gif

BTW, I've tested with success all the videos from post #49 with a 100% success rate. Complete fail in both MPlayerX and QuickTimeX. Must be the 'X' since that's the common factor.

Do you have "QuickTime Player 7"?

http://support.apple.com/downloads/#quicktime

 

Cheers

post #65 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

I can never escape the feeling that there is something terribly terribly wrong with people who like and use Opera.  

 

Everything about their products seems different from others, but never for a good reason.  

One always gets the impression that they are chasing difference for different's sake alone. 

Are you implying that those who likes Opera is mentally wrong? How about people who use Safari is terribly terribly wrong as well? Now, I don't use Opera, but it has pioneered many of the features that were "different" and later adopted by all of the popular browsers today. A lot of these ideas were then borrowed by IE, FF, Safari, and Chrome. What do feel that's "different" about the Opera browser? I, for one, thank that they were different so that I can enjoy some of the features that we have today on all browsers.

 

1. One of the first to implement "tab browsing".

2. The first to implement "speed dial".

3. The first to implement "delete private data".

4. The first to implement "pop-up blocker".

post #66 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by minicapt View Post

Do you have "QuickTime Player 7"?
http://support.apple.com/downloads/#quicktime

Cheers

I had it up until ML. I was under the (mistaken) impression it won't work with ML because it's PPC. I just installed it. No luck. Looks like VLC is still the best last resort for media even if it is the ugliest most janky interface I've ever had the displeasure of seeing.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #67 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveMcM76 View Post

 

And the cynic in me has that statement nailed down as the number 1 reason why the windows versions will never be as good as the mac versions....


People still use Windows?

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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post #68 of 78
" Ice is based on WebKit, the same engine used by both Apple and Google"

should be "Ice is based on Apple's WebKit, the same engine used by Google's Android"
post #69 of 78
Originally Posted by studentx View Post
" Ice is based on WebKit, the same engine used by both Apple and Google"

should be "Ice is based on Apple's WebKit, the same engine used by Google's Android"

 

Yeah, but swap Android with Chrome.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #70 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

*it makes me sick that most tech channels are flash only.

It makes me sick that most tech channels have their heads so far up Google's ass they can see the back of Eric Schmidt's throat.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #71 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

It makes me sick that most tech channels have their heads so far up Google's ass they can see the back of Eric Schmidt's throat.

I'm pretty sure they're looking at his large intestine.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #72 of 78

i'm curious if opera is axing presto for webkit not because of choice but because they have to. Because of Apple's restrictions on browser makers using their own rendering engine and having to skin over the webkit (without Apple's Nitro) engine. Browser makers have been trying to figure out how to push out products on iOS for years, Ice is just another product in that vein. Maybe one day we can just get real official apps with their genuine rendering engines.

post #73 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I'm pretty sure they're looking at his large intestine.

Large indeed. He ties with George Lucas for largest collar size.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #74 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

It makes me sick that most tech channels have their heads so far up Google's ass they can see the back of Eric Schmidt's throat.

I'm pretty sure they're looking at his large intestine.

Eric is so full of it, do you think that free rectal screening would actually reveal anything but dark matter?

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #75 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post


People still use Windows?

 

At work a lot of us don't get much choice, although I have to say Windows 7 is generally a pretty decent OS - although that just might be in comparison to the demon spawn that was Vista...

 

At home I'm still trying to save for a Macbook Pro so I alternate between my iPad, mid 2011 Mac Mini (Mountain Lion) and a windows 7 laptop depending what I'm doing and which room I'm in at the time...

post #76 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveMcM76 View Post

 

At work a lot of us don't get much choice, although I have to say Windows 7 is generally a pretty decent OS - although that just might be in comparison to the demon spawn that was Vista...

 

At home I'm still trying to save for a Macbook Pro so I alternate between my iPad, mid 2011 Mac Mini (Mountain Lion) and a windows 7 laptop depending what I'm doing and which room I'm in at the time...

Do not buy a Macbook pro at all, unless it is a retina model. I don't know what you need your mac to do, but I'm almost certain that a macbook pro is a very very stupid thing to buy right know. (that's my advice).

 

Why? The Air is much faster, unless you put an SSD model on the MBP. The air is much lighter, same battery life, has a screen with more resolution... But f*ck that... The huge difference is the SSD.

 

Then rumours are saying that Apple will kill the MBP, and that makes sense. I wouldn't buy a model that is going to be killed right after.

 

Both retina models are the best laptops available, but since they are version 1, you should wait a few months (since you are still in the progress of getting the necessary money). Most likely if Apple kills the regular pro-models (there's a big chance that this will happen) the retina models will be a little cheaper (version 2).

post #77 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveMcM76 View Post

 

At work a lot of us don't get much choice, although I have to say Windows 7 is generally a pretty decent OS - although that just might be in comparison to the demon spawn that was Vista...

 

At home I'm still trying to save for a Macbook Pro so I alternate between my iPad, mid 2011 Mac Mini (Mountain Lion) and a windows 7 laptop depending what I'm doing and which room I'm in at the time...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

Do not buy a Macbook pro at all, unless it is a retina model. I don't know what you need your mac to do, but I'm almost certain that a macbook pro is a very very stupid thing to buy right know. (that's my advice).

 

Why? The Air is much faster, unless you put an SSD model on the MBP. The air is much lighter, same battery life, has a screen with more resolution... But f*ck that... The huge difference is the SSD.

 

Then rumours are saying that Apple will kill the MBP, and that makes sense. I wouldn't buy a model that is going to be killed right after.

 

Both retina models are the best laptops available, but since they are version 1, you should wait a few months (since you are still in the progress of getting the necessary money). Most likely if Apple kills the regular pro-models (there's a big chance that this will happen) the retina models will be a little cheaper (version 2).

 

The current MacBook Pro is an excellent machine, and I don't know why you would tell someone not to buy one.

 

It is only a RUMOR that the current form factor is going to be replaced by the Retina models, but I honestly don't see that happening this year. The price of the Retina models is still too high.

 

Apple may axe the drives this year in the non-Retina models, but that would be a negative for most people anyway.

 

Anyway @DaveMcM76 save up for your MacBook Pro and you won't regret it. It'll last you a good long time too. My MacBook before it is still running today 7 years strong.

post #78 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Eric is so full of it, do you think that free rectal screening would actually reveal anything but dark matter?

I'm sure there would be nuggets of information about his diet.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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