Rumor: Apple to debut 4.8" 'iPhone Math' device alongside next-gen iPhone in June - Page 5

There's a bit of a difference between an off-the-cuff remark and actually making marketing videos showing that they designed the phone around the thumb navigation. They'd have to suggest that the bigger one doesn't work with the same setup or use someone with a bigger hand.

That works in reverse too though - most iPhone users aren't complaining about their purchases and they could have bought a Galaxy S3 but they didn't.

Here's what the iPhone 5 looks like with the screen scaled up to the size of the S3 - some of the components wouldn't scale up so it would be a bit shorter:



I don't think the big one offers enough to justify having two models and they think the way they are doing it is common sense:



it wouldn't be very logical to do something that isn't common sense. There are hand tests with the S3 here - the small hands have to move the whole phone just to get to some parts of the screen. They can all use it ok but it's clumsy:

Am I reading the results properly? The larger the hand the longer it took to complete? If so, then I would like to see how various hand sizes work with various sized phones from Android. It's not in any way conclusive as there are too many unknowns but I can't help but question now if a larger device many actually be more efficient for a smaller hand based on these results.

Not sure what your mean....???

I answer the phone with one hand often... ( including entering my PIN code)

I send a quick text with one hand often...

I read my emails with one hand often...

However when web surfing, watching videos, replying to emails ect... I typically use two hands because it is so much easier, however I did the same thing with my old 3.5" droid phone so I am not sure it is due to screen size, but more common sense....

I guess I just don't see the need to operate with one hand all that often... What are you doing while using your phone that renders the other hand unusable so often?

I also do not see why people think using a 4.5+" display with one hand is that much harder than using a 4" display with one hand especially if you have larger hands to start with. My thumb can easly reach the entire screen on my 4.6 " Nexus.... I can even pinch and zoom with my thumb and index finger on the etire screen area while cradeling the phone with ghe other three fingers. So what exactly Is the problem?

Which shows how crap the IP5 form factor is

 

You don't understand the argument. That's readily apparent.

The idea would be to go buy something else from some other company, then. If you're then a semi-objective "right" or part of a group of meaningful size, Apple will eventually cater to you.

 

I'll bite (again). How? Because of the "huge bezel" and "stupid waste of space" of the components that actually have to be there?

 

You want the bezel to scale with the screen.

I'm not following your comment either. Are you saying the iPhone 5 as-is is crap or it would be crap to expand every up as shown in the image?

What's wrong with going back to the original 1.5:1 aspect ratio of the iPhone 4S? 
Quadruple that resolution to 1920x1280 on a 5" screen. That's not impossible today. Sony just announced a 5" 1920x1080 Android phone and more are to follow this year. 

1920x1080 @ 5" = 440 PPI
1920x1280 @ 5" = 461 PPI

Appe already quadrupled the resolution from the iPhone 3GS to the iPhone 4. Why can't they do that again going to a 5" screen? The math works out, the ratios stay the same, which means the apps don't need to change unless they want to take advantage of the higher resolution. Otherwise they just get blown up the way they did for the iPhone 4 originally.

 

 

 

 

 

 

What I find hilarious is that 1 year ago, when all we had was the iPhone 4S, numerous Apple fan sites conducted polls on how large should Apple make the iPhone screen and there was a WIDE consensus at the time that 4 inches was perfect. A lot of people would have been content with 3.7 inches at the time.

 

Well Apple gave us an iPhone with a 4 inch screen and what do we do? Complain and say it's not big enough!

 

Now today you people are saying 4 inches is too small and 5 inches is just right when a year ago NO ONE WAS SAYING THAT. And now you think Apple is "behind the times" when no one was even asking them for a larger than 4 inch screen until now.

 

What's funny is some people here demand Apple to essentially copy Samsung with larger screens, then are the same people to accuse Apple of copying Samsung, when THAT'S WHAT YOU WANTED THEM TO DO.

 

An iPhone with a 4.8 inch screen would essentially look exactly the same as the Galaxy S3 from the front. Square off the corners slightly and make the home button round and you pretty much have a 4.8 inch iPhone. Exact same height width and everything.

First of all, it's doubling the resolution, but quadrupling the total number of pixels. Remember that resolution refers to an x and y axes thus making it a measure along two planes. The are of a rectangle is x * y.

Secondly, they could very well double up, do some odd increase, or change up the aspect ratio but so far they have been very calculated with their growth. I don't have an opinion as to whether 3:2 or 16:9 or some other aspect ratio would be better for a ≈5" display but I would expect Apple to make the UI and SDK changes as simple as possible.

Are they going to be winding down all 3:2 iPhones over the next few years or will they want to decommission that aspect ratio and the resolution doubling you mention into a larger device? I don't know but I think you are looking in the right direction.

I would question whether they would double the resolution again when they are already at Retina Display quality. What is to gain besides besting Sony for a generation before some other vendor comes out with some low-yield that wins that checkmark on a spec sheet but fails in more important areas? Does the display look better? What about performance? What about battery life? The more pixels the more GPU power required and the more Watts needs to deal with the current power draw for a given performance.

We do have some GPU advances coming this year that make it feasible but there is still the question of the need. If they go with 4.904" they can use the same panels the iPad (4) uses for 264 PPI displays. Would that still be Retina for someone with 20/20 vision holding the device a normal distance from the face? I think that might be on the edge and need actual prototypes to decide if it's good enough. They certainly felt the iPad mini was good enough without waiting a couple years to make a 326 PPI 2048x1536 display.

If it's not good enough and they would consider an entirely new dot pitch then what about a smaller device that is still within a feasible Retina threshold? Would the display still be large enough for them to consider the addition to the iPhone family?

It is pretty ridiculous. The original iPhone was too big but now the 4" iPhone is too small. Some of it can be put on the Apple haters for wanting whatever Apple isn't doing but some of it is a rapid change in culture due to technology. For example, a year ago the iPad went Retina with a phenomenally high resolution that most don't have on their PC displays today. No one had ever done that in such a small consumer device with a 10 hours battery life, yet 6 months later so many were crying foul on Apple for being "cheap" for not putting that same resolution display in much smaller space, lower cost and the same battery life. It was a ridiculous expectation but it was common.

 

I seem to remember the survey saying that 4" to 4.5" was the perfect size range at that anything over 5" was much too large... but you have to remember that this survey was taken before a lot of people got a good feel of a larger than 4.5" device.

I have a feeling that if Apple releases a higher screen phone, it's all going to be for a marketing gimmick.

 

Currently, 1080p Smartphones output higher ppi than "Retina" displays, at up to 443 ppi (Some even close to 500 ppi on 6.1 inch displays). I believe that in order to gain some sort of edge on the competition, they're going to want to make a new "Retina" display resolution, and call it "Super Retina" display, or something similar  That will give consumer a feeling that their displays are higher resolution than other smartphones, when in reality I doubt any display that comes out will be higher ppi than what current 1080p phones have.

A bigger display would be mean nothing to me personally without bolstered software capabilities to take advantage of the larger display.

A 5", 1080p iPhone that just gives me a couple of icons just isn't that exciting to me. I'm more concerned about iOS7 than iPhone 5S at this point. Cleaning up some of the weaknesses in iOS would be vastly more beneficial to the current and future iphone owners.

I thought retina was a point at which increase in ppi doesnt make a difference anymore

Samsung somehow manages

Pros:

• More customers

• Variety
• Having a phablet - filling the gap between phones and tablets
• don't loose customers because of something as 'irrelevant' as the screen size

 

Cons

• Resolution might not fit
• Apple is not the first to do this
• More phones => more eventual cannibalization
• Breaking tradition with one iPhone per year

 

As I see it, the pros are reasonable for Companies that want to monetize something.

The cons are more 'emotional', traditional or Apple specific.

Consumer groups/ surveys aren't the Apple way. Weren't. Shouldn't be.

I
I didn't say anything about people don't care about price increase. I sure do that's why i make that statement. So please don't twist my word to make you sound right.

On the other hand, you are only talking about European / America market. Do you know the two million launch sales (official) the Chinese carrier charge CNY 5288 for 16GB model? And black market price was at 7000 (the price came down 20 % this month but still a 8% extra on top of apple store price). These are facts.

All I am saying is - apple command such a power that everyone trying to copy. I damn sure is trying every day. But going back a little bit - apple never follow , they lead. This is what got them here in the first place. A bunch of know-it-all making noise all day long. It's entertaining (this is why I am here, to watch a circus) but does it mean anything?

I am sure apple is going to release a different size iPhone. You should see those detail model I got from Shenzhen , the case makers here are very well prepare. But are they going to sacrifice huge profit margin in 2013 by start over again and piss off a 4 billion dollars a years business (accessories) I hope not.
Edited by Joelchu - 1/22/13 at 9:00am

Yes, they conclude at the end that it's not so much the hand size but the ability to use a touch screen. They'd probably have to use more people to see if it affected typing but I don't think that's the issue. The smaller hands had to hold the phone right at the tips of their fingers and reposition the phone to reach the top, which makes it more likely they'd drop it. It also shows that people with larger hands don't automatically benefit from it being bigger - they aren't any faster at typing.

It shows that it would need to be redesigned like the Galaxy had to be redesigned to go from the S2 to the S3.

The S3 places the front-facing camera off-centre and has an asymmetric bezel. Apple would have to do the same to match the S3 dimensions and it wouldn't look as nice. I know people think function should exceed form but symmetry is very important.

Because they already decided that it's as wide as they want to make it. Making it 16:9 was the only thing they could do to increase the screen size without making it wider in portrait.

Exactly. It'll always be the case though because everybody has their own preference. Samsung wants to have options for everyone and that's up to them but Apple has always tried to offer as few options as possible. Cut anti-glare laptops, cut 17" iMac, cut 17" MBP, cut optical drives, cut the Macbook. If they offered options to suit everyone, they'd end up with a huge catalog of products to support and they have to have manufacturing adjustments for every one of these options.

I'd say more like the S2 with the squared off corners but effectively like one of Samsung's designs at which point people will say they copied Samsung because they led the way in big screen phones as you pointed out.

That's not really clear. If the bigger phone is more expensive, it would be less appealing. If it has a higher resolution, it would be slower with the same components and more work for developers. If it has the same resolution, it would have a lower pixel density and wouldn't allow you to do anything more on screen.

People should be aware they've probably tested all sorts of different sizes already, which could well explain supplier reports. They tested out the iPad and felt the same:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/oct/22/ipad-mini-steve-jobs-7in-tablets

"Well, one could increase the resolution of the display to make up for some of the difference. It is meaningless, unless your tablet also includes sandpaper, so that the user can sand down their fingers to around one quarter of the present size. Apple's done extensive user-testing on touch interfaces over many years, and we really understand this stuff. There are clear limits of how close you can physically place elements on a touch screen before users cannot reliably tap, flick or pinch them. This is one of the key reasons we think the 10-inch screen size is the minimum size required to create great tablet apps."

There are other things like weight and price though that factor into usability and I think the 8" iPad Mini was the right thing to do but I think 7" tablets are too small.

A 7" 16:9 tablet is 45% the area of a 9.7" 4:3 tablet. A 7.9" 4:3 tablet is 67%.

In terms of phones there is clearly a maximum feasible size and all people are debating is what that maximum should be. They either stay conservative to avoid alienating people with an excessively large single model or they have multiple phones and complicate their manufacturing and pricing. I think the 4" screen they have is a good size and I actually think it's at the limit of comfortable one-handed use for most people.

I agree, your criticism has truth to it.

 

I think that a couple of folks (who are often moderators in this forum) are too smart for their own good...and their intelligence gets in the way of what could be valuable and interesting discussions.

 

Listen up...some of you have Apple/technology IQs that border on genius.  And folks, like me, are not against you.  I repeat, we are not against you.  We sometimes just have differing opinions that are expressed in different ways.  If you have a contrasting opinion, please try to help us understand it without making us feel like we're stupid.  99% of us are not trolls.

 

P.S. I've been treated pretty good here, but I felt compelled to say this in defense of others.

 

...carry on...

While I agree with most of your thoughts, I gotta strongly disagree with this one.

I just can't see Apple producing a cheap product at this size... too much risk with product confusion (and brand reputation).

 

I CAN see producing a cheaper product that differentiates it... like a smaller form factor (flip or iPod nano-sized) phone.

There is a large market for smaller form factor of phones (that are cheaper in both hardware & data plans).

 

Don't get me wrong, there is always a market for cheap.  Apple won't go to all cheap markets.  But could selectively enter if there's value to their ecosystem and brand (and profitability, of course).

I think agree with you on this. Hypothetically, they could offer a less expensive product without being 'cheap' in the derogatory sense, and not contradict Phil Schiller's comments. They can make a plastic-backed phone that holds up very well, I thought with the plastic-backed 3G / 3GS models held up very well. It's also possible that they're disowning that heritage in favor of an all metal chassis product line.

 

I never said I thought 4" was just right....  In fact as soon as I use a 4.5+ display I knew I preferred it....

 

Also I suspect many people assumed that a 4" iPhone would have a wider screen. All apple did was add a little to the length.

 

The funny part is that almost everyone here says that the iPad Mini screen is better than the Nexus 7 because the screen has a wider aspect ratio and that is far superior.  However, the same people completely reverse themselves and say the iPhone 5 is better because it is has a narrower screen ratio that the wider format Android phones....

 

I personally think that the wider screen is why I prefer the larger Android phones.  The extra length of the iPhone 5 did not seem to add much in my opinion over the screen in the 4s....

The name makes me think improved calculator app mainly, but faster processor second then other thoughts are better cameras more pixelation and more

You guys are completely out of touch.

People are not buying bigger screens for the sake of having a bigger screen...

They are buying bigger screens because of the innovation occurring inside the Android OS that lends itself to the need of a bigger screen.

Floating windows, multiple apps running side by side, and all of these going on in combination.

On my note 2 it is common for me to have 2 apps side by side, a floating browser Window, and a floating note Page.

And I may still need desktop access during this to use a widget or see a conference video playing.

Thus a bigger screen is necessary, not just a fad.

When it comes to iphones why do you really need a big screen when you can only run 1 app at a time, and your desktop is basically just the Android appdrawer?

This is why iphones owners see bigger screens as stupid or a joke, because in the world of ios you could operate it on a watch band. It's simple, static, linear, and lens itself to "one thing at a time" use.

Android and ios are worlds apart in use, requirements, and usefulness.
Edited by truimagz - 1/22/13 at 4:24pm

 

It's not often we see posts this hilarious. Kudos.

You can laugh all you want and think ios is somehow more innovative than Android.

I think this simple video proves otherwise.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=9nh2NSLgaII

And also process my point about why Android users need a bigger screen.

Please state your qualifications in knowing what a CEO needs. You didn't even capitalize it properly, so I don't believe you know jack about the job.

If I had to take the non-laughable approach, I'd instead say your comments lacked a key message and so made little sense.

 

Operating iOS on a watch band lacked any logic to the topic at hand...iOS on a watch band would be useless to 99% of the population.

 

There are probably more people who prefer a 4" (screen) phone than a 5.5" phone.

Just because we want our phones to do more, doesn't mean we want it bigger & with increased weight with reduced battery life.

 

And your video link showed usage of Android on a PC monitor (and in fast forward nonetheless) using a mouse and a keyboard!  What the hell does that have to do with operation of a mobile phone in a mobile situation?

 

...I can kind of see why TS chuckled.

 

Perhaps for the 8" screen size...having a split screen or multiple windows would be of more value.  I can see using multiple windows on my tablet...but maybe only in one instance per day.  Other than that, there's nothing I cannot do in iOS already (like Pandora, maps, phone call) in a "multi-tasking" environment.  But still, it doesn't have to be a phone.

Edited - now maybe you'll focus on the points raised and not trolling my post.

I'd expect more from an administrator and moderator.

Drew,

The point of the video was to show the innovation of Android... and, its ability to do more than be used in only mobile situations.

Some people like the idea of one device for all use cases and Android is providing that.

The video was also to show (in an easier way to actually see) why a person would be interested in more screen space when using Android. As there are actual practical reasons for it other than just being able to see things easier.

The point of my post is that the reason Android is pushing bigger screens is because to use Android to its fullest it is becoming a requirement, but with an os like ios, screen size is more a preference than a requirement.

This is the point most iphone users miss when they laugh at people buying Android phones with large screens.

Try to reflect on this and my posts in a less "don't talk about my momma" way. And I'm sure you'll see what I am trying to get across.

And to your point about not seeing why you need all that, think about Steve Jobs, and how people told him they don't see why you need all that when he introduced the iphone.

Just like people found a neeed for a smartphone, you too may find you need these additional features I mention one you actually start using them.

Again though, we're not all in a position that requires such a need, nor does everyone need a smart phone. But once it's available to you, you soon find it hard to live without.
Edited by truimagz - 1/22/13 at 4:47pm

There are iPhone demos of that sort of thing too:



The biggest difference is that Android won't stop you doing things like this by default. For mouse support and USB support, you'd have to jailbreak an iOS device. It's not really more innovative just allowing functionality vs restricting it, especially when it's not likely to be a popular usage scenario yet.

Your post and video proves my exact point, to the tee. With ios a bigger display is simply that, a bigger display.

My video shows how a bigger display has actual usefulness and an obvious benefit in the ability and usefulness of your Android device.

Just look at the difference between what the people in each video are doing with their screen real estate. You can see then why with Android screen size actually matters other than just making things bigger.

Comparing your video to mine makes my point so apparent. There is a real reason manufacturers are pushing bigger Android devices and why people are buying them.

It also shows perfectly why ios users don't understand or laugh at people buying larger Android phones.

So back to my original point and post, Apple is not losing anything to Android because of screen size, and Apple is not going to solve the disparity by just releasing a bigger phone, nor will ios users see the point of it.

Apple first needs to have a reason for a bigger screen so users need it, the way Android has. Until then it makes perfect sense for ios users to laugh at the idea of a larger screen iphone.
Edited by truimagz - 1/22/13 at 5:40pm

 

Nothing changed. You simply removed one of the more trollish points.

 

What does this mean?

 

 

So's Apple. Next.

 

We laugh because it's laughable to think that.

 

The radio-toaster caught on, too. Fire.

 

Okay, I lampshaded this earlier, but I'll play it straight this time:

 

Are you claiming that iOS is unchanged, regardless of the size of screen it uses?

Sure, I see that.  That's a good point.  But that video still shows it using a PC-sized monitor.  When I picture that on anything around a 6" screen, that's still too small for most uses of floating windows and split screens.

 

But again, one device in a MOBILE environment is almost impossible for the next few years.  For the next few years, I think that that MOST of us would prefer a small phone that fits in our pockets, a mobile-sized tablet, & a desktop system.  I'm not discrediting anyone, just saying what I think MOST people want.  Personally, I don't laugh at anyone's ideas, but I do chuckle when I see human beings place a 6" phone screen to their ear...but that's just me...get a damn ear piece for darn's sake.  :-)

Bigger screens...Apple seems to already have done that...it has the iPad Mini and iPad.

But OK, no floating windows and stuff, which most would consider a benefit (if it doesn't sacrifice battery life).

 

So I'm going to make a prediction just for the heck of it...Apple will roll out floating windows, allowing some type of multi-tasking windows environment within the next year.  There it is, I said it.  And Trui helped me make that prediction.  Seriously.

I just wanted people to think outside the fanboy box on this.

And actually see and understand why apple users laugh at the idea of larger screens and Android users applaud it.

I think if anyone were to read my posts objectively I have achieved that.

Drew, it's been fun, and I hear where your coming from as well, my personal hope for the future is that operating systems break free of their physical constraints instead of physical constraints limiting the capabilities of an operating system.

 

What good is a feature if no hardware exists so that you can actually use it?

My biggest question regarding a cheap, colorful, large form factor (like 4" or larger) iPhone is that who would be the NEW market...surely, not the bargain basement hunters, since the data plans would still be as high as it is now?

 

I can only see gaining a new market if it were a feature phone, thereby only requiring cheaper data plans...which truly places the device in the cheap (entry level) market.

 

It must only be me, because every other rumor/news site is predicting that cheap/colorful/plastic 4"-5" iPhone this year!  This would be a tragically bad business move.