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Microsoft launching Surface Pro, expanding Surface RT lineup on Feb. 9

post #1 of 82
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Microsoft announced on Tuesday that it will expand its Surface tablet lineup next month with the new "Pro" model running Windows 8, as well as a new "RT" version with 64 gigabytes of storage.

Surface


Surface Windows 8 Pro will be available for purchase on Feb. 9 in the U.S and Canada starting at $899 for the 64-gigabyte version. The Surface Pro comes with a Surface Pen and is powered by an Intel Core i5 processor.

The 64-gigabyte standalone version of Surface Windows RT will run an ARM processor like the existing Windows RT tablets. The new high-capacity variant will cost $599, with the touch cover sold separately.

Microsoft will also launch new Surface accessories in markets where the tablet is still available. They are three limited edition Touch Covers, as well as the Wedge Touch Mouse Surface Edition.

The new Touch Covers will be available in red, magenta and cyan for $129.99, while the Wedge Touch Mouse will be $69.95.

Finally, Microsoft also revealed it will more than double the number of markets in which Surface Windows RT is currently available.

The 13 additional markets are Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, Sweden and Switzerland. They join markets where Surface RT is already available: Australia, Canada, China, France, Germany, Hong Kong, the United Kingdom, and the United States.
post #2 of 82
That'll kick some stands ¡
post #3 of 82
I wish this was more popular because I have an idea for a portable table you place on your lap so you can actually use your Surface as a laptop.

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post #4 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I wish this was more popular because I have an idea for a portable table you place on your lap so you can actually use your Surface as a laptop.

I have the same idea except it is a carrying bag that turns into a lap table so you can actually use it as a laptop in your lap.
post #5 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post


I have the same idea except it is a carrying bag that turns into a lap table so you can actually use it as a laptop in your lap.

 

How about a manual on how to use the Surface that converts into a table so you can actually use it. Like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KuDPfTfw6w

post #6 of 82
When these prices are above apple you know they suck(not even mentioning quality)
post #7 of 82
When these prices are above apple you know they suck(not even mentioning quality)
post #8 of 82
ALthough listed as 64 Gigs, the Surface RT actually only has 48 Gigs available. 16 Gigs are for the RT OS. They're being sued over this. See this C/Net article: http://goo.gl/hsx4r
post #9 of 82

RIP.

post #10 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don108 View Post

ALthough listed as 64 Gigs, the Surface RT actually only has 48 Gigs available. 16 Gigs are for the RT OS. They're being sued over this. See this C/Net article: http://goo.gl/hsx4r

You don't know what you are talking about.

 

After 1 year windows 8 (if everything is enabled) will eat more than 40gigs alone.

post #11 of 82

Is there even any room left on the shelves since the RT's don't seem to be going anywhere?  I guess the RT's will be moving into the warehouses to collect dust to make some room.

post #12 of 82

Biggest anticlimax of the fiscal year. The writing was already on the wall when it was demo'd. 

post #13 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don108 View Post

ALthough listed as 64 Gigs, the Surface RT actually only has 48 Gigs available. 16 Gigs are for the RT OS. They're being sued over this. See this C/Net article: http://goo.gl/hsx4r

1) That's for the Surface RT which uses the stripped down version of the OS. Surface Pro uses the full Windows 8 build thus uses a lot more space. It also uses a lot more resources which will likely make many tasks feel much slower than the iPad despite the use of a Core processor.

2) I disagree with the lawsuit. The storage is as they say and I see no precedence for a PC vendor to sell their systems with a pre--installed OS that subtracts the default OS's data from the total amount of HW capacity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

After 1 year windows 8 (if everything is enabled) will eat more than 40gigs alone.

But what is it on the default build of the Surface Pro? I'm guessing it's about 30GB.
Edited by SolipsismX - 1/22/13 at 2:14pm

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #14 of 82
Logitech and some lesser-known companies have made magnetically attached iPad screen-covers with built-in keyboards for longer than Microsoft has been making the Surface. Their only real hardware innovation isn't unique. Their UI is unique, I will grant--but an ungainly mix of old and new UI is not the way to go. Get an Air if you need a laptop. Get an iPad if you need a tablet. Get a Surface if you think you can have both in one... and enjoy the sacrifices.

They should have just let Metro be its own product and ditched Windows-for-tablets. It doesn't even make sense to call it Windows. Just have two OS's the way Apple does, and share between them but don't try to cram them together into one awkward mishmash that is the best at nothing!

Microsoft has the seed of something interesting. Too late? With Ballmer in charge, I'd say so. Wish we could see how this could have gone without him.
post #15 of 82

brilliant! come out with an even more expensive model of the dead duck RT! that is sure to boost sales, oh yeah.

 

what a joke. MS needs to cut its price in half instead. then maybe it might find some suckers buyers.

 

and what was the Surface RT Killer? we know ... the iPad mini. wonder what tomorrow's announced sales total will be, compared to less than 1 million RT's.

 

as to the long-awaited Pro, i am still waiting to hear what exactly it does better or easier than a good (touch screen if W8) laptop. there are no third party W8 apps i know of that really take advantage of a tablet format yet. the reason iPads are being used in so many special circumstances is that developers have created specialized apps for those uses that are also tablet optimized - simple and uncluttered. whereas legacy Windows applications will be crap to use on any tablet - none are simple or uncluttered. MS Office is not enough. unless all those proprietary software companies overhaul their complex applications for it specificially - very expensive to do - the Pro is DOA too.

post #16 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

brilliant! come out with an even more expensive model of the dead duck RT! that is sure to boost sales, oh yeah.

what a joke. MS needs to cut its price in half instead. then maybe it might find some suckers buyers.

and what was the Surface RT Killer? we know ... the iPad mini. wonder what tomorrow's announced sales total will be, compared to less than 1 million RT's.

as to the long-awaited Pro, i am still waiting to hear what exactly it does better or easier than a good (touch screen if W8) laptop. there are no third party W8 apps i know of that really take advantage of a tablet format yet. the reason iPads are being used in so many special circumstances is that developers have created specialized apps for those uses that are also tablet optimized - simple and uncluttered. whereas legacy Windows applications will be crap to use on any tablet - none are simple or uncluttered. MS Office is not enough. unless all those proprietary software companies overhaul their complex applications for it specificially - very expensive to do - the Pro is DOA too.

The Pro will connect to Active Directory environments. The RT will not. There should be dozens upon dozens of people at companies with an all Windows Server set that blindly love MS, hate Apple and have plenty of money to spend.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #17 of 82
Praising Microsoft and calling Surface fresh and innovative in 5,4,3,2...

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post #18 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I wish this was more popular because I have an idea for a portable table you place on your lap so you can actually use your Surface as a laptop.

I have this idea for putting the electronics and battery inside the keyboard, which would then be permanently attached to the screen, which could then be adjusted to any angle. It's the logical evolutionary path for the Surface.

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post #19 of 82
If at first you don't succeed, make a newer, bigger, more expensive one.
post #20 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

How about a manual on how to use the Surface that converts into a table so you can actually use it. Like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KuDPfTfw6w

Even better...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT0S71Sk88Q&feature=player_detailpage&t=9s
post #21 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by storneo View Post

If at first you don't succeed, make a newer, bigger, more expensive one.

In their defense they did have the Surface Pro planned from the start.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #22 of 82

the three new touch covers are supposedly 'limited editions'

 

given the suspected sales figures for the Surface RT to date, aren't all the touch covers limited editions lol.gif

post #23 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

In their defense they did have the Surface Pro planned from the start.
Indeed. What I have yet to understand is why the Surface Windows 8 'pro' version was pushed months after the RT launch, missing holidays sales and helping to create some confusion about the two different OSes (windows RT and now windows 8)...
post #24 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


I have this idea for putting the electronics and battery inside the keyboard, which would then be permanently attached to the screen, which could then be adjusted to any angle. It's the logical evolutionary path for the Surface.

 

Genius. That would eliminate the need for the kickstand as well.

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post #25 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensi View Post

Indeed. What I have yet to understand is why the Surface Windows 8 'pro' version was pushed months after the RT launch, missing holidays sales and helping to create some confusion about the two different OSes (windows RT and now windows 8)...

If you can only have one for the Holidays I think the RT is the way to go. The price is nearly half that of the Pro and corporations that want to invest in the MS Surface would likely also need the Pro for AD and probably wouldn't be able to buy them until the new fiscal year.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #26 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


I have this idea for putting the electronics and battery inside the keyboard, which would then be permanently attached to the screen, which could then be adjusted to any angle. It's the logical evolutionary path for the Surface.

Hmmm, great idea.  You've just suggested making a small laptop!  My guess is that the next step will be to include a battery in the keyboard cover, just to give the Surface Pro usability beyond a couple of hours.  Then they'll have a 4+ lb netbook sized laptop, which of course will just destroy any hope Apple has of selling MacBook Air 11" models...

post #27 of 82
Only two weeks later than promised, not bad Microsoft. It's sure to help all those non-techies who are confused by the Surface RT too - now there's another Surface to choose from, and it's thicker, heavier and more expensive! With shorter battery life too! Oh joy, just what everyone who hasn't bought a Surface RT is looking for...
post #28 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

 

How about a manual on how to use the Surface that converts into a table so you can actually use it. Like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KuDPfTfw6w

 

Like Cosmo Kramer's coffee table book that turned into a coffee table?

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post #29 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

RIP.

 

More like, "burn in hell".

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #30 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


1) That's for the Surface RT which uses the stripped down version of the OS. Surface Pro uses the full Windows 8 build thus uses a lot more space. It also uses a lot more resources which will likely make many tasks feel much slower than the iPad despite the use of a Core processor.

 

The lost space can be attributed to two things, the rather heavy OS (in disk usage anyway), and the inclusion of a fairly feature complete version of desktop Office 2013. 

 

While most folks think Windows RT is a stripped-down version of Windows, it really isn't. It's actually a rather complete, clean port of Windows to the ARM architecture. The heavy disk space use for the install is one of the things that exposes this. The main difference between Windows 8 and Windows RT, other than the obvious difference of CPU architecture, is that RT is simply restricted from running non-Microsoft desktop apps.

 

It should be noted that maybe Microsoft should have stripped down RT to just the Metro interface. I've gone back and forth on it, but right now I think maybe they should have left out the desktop despite its usefulness and leaving behind just the 'new' Windows.

 

I will disagree with you on the point of the Surface Pro performance. The performance of the Surface Pro should easily eclipse the performance of the iPad 4. My reasons are listed below.

  • Windows 8 - Windows 8 is the second straight Microsoft OS where Microsoft has done a good job minimizing the memory usage of the OS. Windows 8 is far less heavy than you might think and has turned into quite a lean OS.
  • SSD storage - The Surface Pro includes a full SSD rather than the eMMC memory used by the iPad and most/many tablets. This results in huge performance gains.
  • Core processor - This is pretty self explanatory. The processor is much more powerful, and even though the 4000 graphics aren't much compared to desktop cards, it should beat the iPad's graphics handily(I might be wrong on this and I'd like to see real benchmark comparisons).

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post #31 of 82

the portability of a tablet that needs a keyboard, a mouse, and a stylus.

post #32 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by runner7775 View Post

I will disagree with you on the point of the Surface Pro performance. The performance of the Surface Pro should easily eclipse the performance of the iPad 4. My reasons are listed below.
  • Windows 8 - Windows 8 is the second straight Microsoft OS where Microsoft has done a good job minimizing the memory usage of the OS. Windows 8 is far less heavy than you might think and has turned into quite a lean OS.
  • SSD storage - The Surface Pro includes a full SSD rather than the eMMC memory used by the iPad and most/many tablets. This results in huge performance gains.
  • Core processor - This is pretty self explanatory. The processor is much more powerful, and even though the 4000 graphics aren't much compared to desktop cards, it should beat the iPad's graphics handily(I might be wrong on this and I'd like to see real benchmark comparisons).

Even if true (and I'm skeptical), you're making the wrong comparison. Windows RT is comparable to the iPad. Surface Pro has a Core processor, SSD, a keyboard, and costs $1,000 - just like the MacBook Air. THAT is the comparison you should be making.
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post #33 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Even if true (and I'm skeptical), you're making the wrong comparison. Windows RT is comparable to the iPad. Surface Pro has a Core processor, SSD, a keyboard, and costs $1,000 - just like the MacBook Air. THAT is the comparison you should be making.

 

I was just quoting what Solipsism had said. I would compare the 11" Air and the Pro. 

 

Performance between the Surface RT and iPad doesn't end up well, especially in the performance arena. The last test I remember, only in boot time did the Surface RT come out on top. The rest favored the iPad 4 by a large margin, IIRC.

 

Edit: Whoops compared the wrong devices. I would wager that the Surface Pro and MacBook Air would be comparable in performance, depending on the processor you got in the Air.


Edited by runner7775 - 1/22/13 at 6:16pm

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post #34 of 82
I am confused! Could someone please provide a simple table that summarises all the tablet options offered by Microsoft? Thanks!
post #35 of 82
Originally Posted by pauldfullerton View Post
I am confused! Could someone please provide a simple table that summarises all the tablet options offered by Microsoft? Thanks!

 

By or of?

 

By is summarized thus.

 

Of, you'd have to go to all the other manufacturers' websites.

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post #36 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


The Pro will connect to Active Directory environments. The RT will not. There should be dozens upon dozens of people at companies with an all Windows Server set that blindly love MS, hate Apple and have plenty of money to spend.

sure, but so what? we know the RT is dead dead dead. so does every Windows laptop. my question is, exactly when/where/how is it superior to use compared to a good laptop in the same price range? what important third party software is optimized for it? 'cause otherwise, they'll suck.

post #37 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Even if true (and I'm skeptical), you're making the wrong comparison. Windows RT is comparable to the iPad. Surface Pro has a Core processor, SSD, a keyboard, and costs $1,000 - just like the MacBook Air. THAT is the comparison you should be making.

I'm the one the initiated that comparison first with "It also uses a lot more resources which will likely make many tasks feel much slower than the iPad despite the use of a Core processor."'

runner777 makes many great points but we'll have to wait to see how the Win 8 UI reacts on that CPU.

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post #38 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

sure, but so what? we know the RT is dead dead dead. so does every Windows laptop. my question is, exactly when/where/how is it superior to use compared to a good laptop in the same price range? what important third party software is optimized for it? 'cause otherwise, they'll suck.

The Surface Pro is x86_64. It runs Windows 8 Pro. I think it's doubtful it will succeed but for someone that needs a Win tablet to connect to AD then Surface RT won't cut it. You can run standard apps on it with a mouse and keyboard or use it as a tablet for basic computing. I don't think it's the best of both worlds but I can't speak for others and it does have clear benefit over the RT.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #39 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by runner7775 View Post

Edit: Whoops compared the wrong devices. I would wager that the Surface Pro and MacBook Air would be comparable in performance, depending on the processor you got in the Air.

I doubt it.

Several issues:
1. The reported specs for the Surface include clock speed UP TO 1.7 GHz. The MBA starts at 1.7 GHz. And the Surface only comes in i5 vs a choice of i5 or i7 for the MBA. And even the i5 in the Surface is the ultra-low voltage version.
2. There is no report yet of Surface offering more than 4 GB while the MBA offers 8 as an option.
3. In my experience, OS X is still faster on comparable hardware than Windows 8.

Until there's data one way or the other, no one knows, but I'd be shocked if the Surface Pro is as fast as an MBA other than a few very selected benchmarks (possibly startup time).
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post #40 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmgregory1 View Post

Hmmm, great idea.  You've just suggested making a small laptop!  My guess is that the next step will be to include a battery in the keyboard cover, just to give the Surface Pro usability beyond a couple of hours.  Then they'll have a 4+ lb netbook sized laptop, which of course will just destroy any hope Apple has of selling MacBook Air 11" models...

 

"Laptop"... hmm. Yeah that has a nice ring to it. It conveys the basic idea: that you could use it anywhere if you put it on your lap. It would work for the Surface since Microsoft has never shown or advertised to Surface to work in portrait mode, so a hinged screen would suffice.

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