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Microsoft launching Surface Pro, expanding Surface RT lineup on Feb. 9 - Page 2

post #41 of 82
Sad thing is Ballmer just might lose his job and someone might actually get in there and turn the tide. Let's hope not...
post #42 of 82

"Wedge Touch Mouse Surface Edition."

 

Good to see MS hasn't lost its knack for naming things like they were lab specimens. 

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post #43 of 82
Oh, GAWD no!!!!!!

More stupid ads with all of that clicking $#^¥. :facepalm:
post #44 of 82

now can someone fire balmer..

post #45 of 82
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Originally Posted by tcasey View Post

now can someone fire balmer..

I certainly hope he stays on for many years to come. We can have our laughs with Scully & Page, but no one does it like Ballmer!

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post #46 of 82
If $899 doesn't include the keyboard cover, this thing seems pricey. I expect WinPC's to be priced on the low-end. I think this will be a hard sell against $300 Dell laptops
post #47 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifij775 View Post

If $899 doesn't include the keyboard cover, this thing seems pricey. I expect WinPC's to be priced on the low-end. I think this will be a hard sell against $300 Dell laptops

1. I think they'll sell a million overnight. After that, not much.

2. Cheapest Dell laptop I found was $399
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post #48 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

1. I think they'll sell a million overnight. After that, not much.

2. Cheapest Dell laptop I found was $399

Businesses with large orders pay less than retail prices, which probably could be said for the surface, too.
post #49 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifij775 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

1. I think they'll sell a million overnight. After that, not much.

2. Cheapest Dell laptop I found was $399

Businesses with large orders pay less than retail prices, which probably could be said for the surface, too.

Ah, ok, iForgot.

Surface on bulk orders getting discount; I nice idea. If MS doesn't do this now, they might if sales are (s)low.
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post #50 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Ah, ok, iForgot.

Surface on bulk orders getting discount; I nice idea. If MS doesn't do this now, they might if sales are (s)low.

The $300 price was more rhetorical, perhaps $3XX is more what I meant
post #51 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

The Surface Pro is x86_64. It runs Windows 8 Pro. I think it's doubtful it will succeed but for someone that needs a Win tablet to connect to AD then Surface RT won't cut it. You can run standard apps on it with a mouse and keyboard or use it as a tablet for basic computing. I don't think it's the best of both worlds but I can't speak for others and it does have clear benefit over the RT.

It's a different market. It's basically like comparing an iPad to a MacBook Air.

The Surface RT, like the iPad, is for content creation on the go where you can get by with a limited set of features and limited capability. The MacBook Air, like the Surface Pro, is a "complete" computer that runs standard Mac OS X (or Windows, in the case of the Surface Pro) apps and OS.

It think they're right that the markets are separate and there's a place for both products. Not everyone needs the Pro, but some people do. And some people could get by with either but will choose one or the other based on their own preferences. The real problem I see is the risk of confusion. Because of their similar names, I fully expect that some people will buy the RT expecting it to run their Windows apps and then get disappointed. Microsoft has this belief that their products are so great that they're universal and can be used everywhere. That has made Microsoft terrible when it comes to segmentation as they seem to arbitrarily move to extremes. For example, how many versions of WIndows 7 where there? Something like a dozen, IIRC. Why in the world do you need a dozen different versions? Then they go to the opposite extreme and dictate that Windows 8 must appear to be the same on everything from phones to mid-range servers.
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post #52 of 82
I would rather have (and do) a big honking PC to run my Microsoft stuff. Apple rules my mobile world.
post #53 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Microsoft announced on Tuesday that it will expand its Surface tablet lineup next month with the new "Pro" model running Windows 8, as well as a new "RT" version with 64 gigabytes of storage.

Surface


Surface Windows 8 Pro will be available for purchase on Feb. 9 in the U.S and Canada starting at $899 for the 64-gigabyte version. The Surface Pro comes with a Surface Pen and is powered by an Intel Core i5 processor.

The 64-gigabyte standalone version of Surface Windows RT will run an ARM processor like the existing Windows RT tablets. The new high-capacity variant will cost $599, with the touch cover sold separately.

Microsoft will also launch new Surface accessories in markets where the tablet is still available. They are three limited edition Touch Covers, as well as the Wedge Touch Mouse Surface Edition.

The new Touch Covers will be available in red, magenta and cyan for $129.99, while the Wedge Touch Mouse will be $69.95.

Finally, Microsoft also revealed it will more than double the number of markets in which Surface Windows RT is currently available.

The 13 additional markets are Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, Sweden and Switzerland. They join markets where Surface RT is already available: Australia, Canada, China, France, Germany, Hong Kong, the United Kingdom, and the United States.

 

 

A truck with such a limited payload capacity ?

post #54 of 82
While the Surface itself does not excite me due to its hardware, I am excited about potential gaming platforms that could be used as "Steam Boxes", such as the one Razer has announced. Either play portably using the built-in display or plug it to a TV and plug in peripherals (i.e.: controllers). Such devices would merge the benefits of PC games as well as both living room and handheld consoles into a single device, which I find appealing.
post #55 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post

While the Surface itself does not excite me due to its hardware, I am excited about potential gaming platforms that could be used as "Steam Boxes", such as the one Razer has announced. Either play portably using the built-in display or plug it to a TV and plug in peripherals (i.e.: controllers). Such devices would merge the benefits of PC games as well as both living room and handheld consoles into a single device, which I find appealing.

You mean like AirPlay on the iPad.
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post #56 of 82

Oh, I should also note, I'll be buying a Surface Pro on the 9th. If there's anything at all you want to know about it once I get it, let me know.

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post #57 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don108 View Post

Although listed as 64 Gigs, the Surface RT actually only has 48 Gigs available. 16 Gigs are for the RT OS. They're being sued over this. See this C/Net article: http://goo.gl/hsx4r

 

Well that's a stupid lawsuit, I don't see the big deal here as the tablet includes a Micro SD slot. I own a Asus VivoTab 810C and all I did was map my download, music, video and documents directories to a Samsung 64GB 70MB-R/20MB-W card. Now although this card is not as fast as the 64GB SSD drive the system is installed on I have not seen any lag when watching videos or listening to music so it seems to be perfect for data. Plus at a price of only 55 CHF per stick I own one for work and one for work which is great for separating those two environments. Not to mention Skydrive is a fantastic cloud storage service and Asus gives away 100GB from there cloud storage for two years as well.

 

I don't understand the appeal of Windows 8 RT but Windows Pro on a tablet is defiantly cool, leaving Office aside being able to install other desktop apps has become pretty invaluable. Windows 8 is also a very peppy tablet OS, I would dare even to compare the speed to my iPad, well in Metro mode anyway. Entertainment purposes the iPad wins hands down but as a business tool a Windows 8 tablet defiantly has the upper hand. I was hesitant at first but after owning one now for about a month I see the appeal and have defiantly begun to appreciate it, would recommend the Asus 810C or Lenovo Thinkpad 2 tablets.

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post #58 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

the portability of a tablet that needs a keyboard, a mouse, and a stylus.

No it doesn't, that's just silly.

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post #59 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by runner7775 View Post

Oh, I should also note, I'll be buying a Surface Pro on the 9th. If there's anything at all you want to know about it once I get it, let me know.

Why, though I think the build quality is pretty good the battery life is just horrible. You will be lucky to get 4 hours, I would highly recommend you looking at the Lenovo Thinkpad 2. It's one of the best tablets I have ever used, although it only has an Atom CPU the system is fast, real fast. Not to mention that we're getting about 9 hours consistently with ours.

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post #60 of 82
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Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


You mean like AirPlay on the iPad.

 

I think he's talking about Smartglass, a Windows 8 app that allows you to control your Xbox and additional features such as maps or weapon chooser for select games. My son uses it for a couple of his games.

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post #61 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Why, though I think the build quality is pretty good the battery life is just horrible. You will be lucky to get 4 hours, I would highly recommend you looking at the Lenovo Thinkpad 2. It's one of the best tablets I have ever used, although it only has an Atom CPU the system is fast, real fast. Not to mention that we're getting about 9 hours consistently with ours.

The Lenovo has an Atom CPU so it is more of a netbook level device surely? A nice netbook for sure that will do most things, but the i5/i7 in the Surface is better for higher end apps.

9 hours is good for a PC tablet though. As you say, the battery life is the worst thing on the Surface Pro, but until people have them we won't know real world runtimes.
post #62 of 82

Wedge Touch Mouse Surface Edition....LOL!!

post #63 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by runner7775 View Post

While most folks think Windows RT is a stripped-down version of Windows, it really isn't. It's actually a rather complete, clean port of Windows to the ARM architecture.

Windows. Minus legacy X86 compatibility. Ported to ARM. With minimal storage requirements. Wasn't that Windows CE?

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post #64 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


Windows. Minus legacy X86 compatibility. Ported to ARM. With minimal storage requirements. Wasn't that Windows CE?

 

Windows CE is a completely different kernel. Windows RT is the NT kernel ported to ARM. Apparently, many apps require little more than a recompile for ARM to run on the Windows RT desktop(found out this via the guys who 'jailbroke' Windows RT). But, like it's been mentioned before, Windows RT simply wont allow them to run without modifying the system.

 

Edit: Fixed single quotes.

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post #65 of 82

Surface Pro DOA. Let it be buried next to its RT brother. Let's never speak of this again.

post #66 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post


1. I think they'll sell a million overnight. ...

 

How many Microsoft employees are there?

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post #67 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don108 View Post

ALthough listed as 64 Gigs, the Surface RT actually only has 48 Gigs available. 16 Gigs are for the RT OS. They're being sued over this. See this C/Net article: http://goo.gl/hsx4r

And when you buy any computer, it doesn't come with part of storage used by OS and included software?

As long as MS is advertising size of included storage, not size of available storage, I don't think they are in real trouble.
post #68 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

You don't know what you are talking about.

After 1 year windows 8 (if everything is enabled) will eat more than 40gigs alone.

And that is based on what?

This very machine I'm typing this on had Windows 7 Enterprise from 2009, upgraded to Windows 8 Enterprise in September 2012. No clean installs in-between. That is over 3 years of updates, patches etc. plus leftovers an upgrade must have created. Windows folder is 24.5 GB.
post #69 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilution View Post

Surface Pro DOA. Let it be buried next to its RT brother. Let's never speak of this again.

 

 

Why, it's a good machine. Fast, good build quality, very thin for a i7 machine, the battery could be better. These machines can be very helpful to certain professionals, until Apple makes a OSX tablet, these Windows 8 tablets are really the only solution for those who want to run full desktop apps on a tablet. Have you seen any of the Adobe apps running on this thing or maybe even Cubase, it looks pretty awesome. You can't do everything on a iPad, although a majority of the people on this forum seem to think so.

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post #70 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post


Why, it's a good machine. Fast, good build quality, very thin for a i7 machine and very fast. These machines can be very helpful to certain professionals, until Apple makes a OSX tablet, these Windows 8 tablets are really the only solution for those who want to run full desktop apps on a tablet. Have you seen any of the Adobe apps running on this thing or maybe even Cubase, it looks pretty awesome. You can't do everything on a iPad, although a majority of the people on this forum seem to think so.

1) Core-i5.

2) In a previous post you commented on poor battery life which you said was 4 hours but now you are arguing that it's a good machine he should buy?

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post #71 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


And that is based on what?

This very machine I'm typing this on had Windows 7 Enterprise from 2009, upgraded to Windows 8 Enterprise in September 2012. No clean installs in-between. That is over 3 years of updates, patches etc. plus leftovers an upgrade must have created. Windows folder is 24.5 GB.

I would defiantly like to see Windows 8 streamed line a lot more though, I mean what the hell is taking up so much room. I just installed CentOS 6.1 the other day on my old Lenovo Thinkpad X61s and that only took up 2.2GB, even after I installed Wine with Office 2007 and the rest of my apps it was still under 4GB.

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post #72 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

I would defiantly like to see Windows 8 streamed line a lot more though, I mean what the hell is taking up so much room. I just installed CentOS 6.1 the other day on my old Lenovo Thinkpad X61s and that only took up 2.2GB, even after I installed Wine with Office 2007 and the rest of my apps it was still under 4GB.

I hear you! Clean install of the same Windows 8 Enterprise on my mate's PC is still taking almost 20GB of space. That is a lot of space for OS... mind you, this is 8 Enterprise 64-bit; it should take some more space than lesser versions of 8, I'd expect... but however you spin it, humongous it is.
post #73 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

1) Core-i5.

i5 is fast enough for many things ARM SoC are not. It is still a question what is the speed of that i5, but still. I'm running Lightroom on 3 years old ThinkPad with 2.4GHz i5 first gen., and it crunches 6MP RAW files instantly, while it hesitates a bit for 20MP RAW files... but no existing ARM tablet would come close to that.
Quote:
2) In a previous post you commented on poor battery life which you said was 4 hours but now you are arguing that it's a good machine he should buy?

A lot of Windows laptops have sub-4hr battery life. Of course 4hr does not give you same autonomy as 10 hour ARM tablets, but if I'd need more power and/or desktop software compatibility in tablet form factor, this would be acceptable compromise for me.
post #74 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


1) Core-i5.

2) In a previous post you commented on poor battery life which you said was 4 hours but now you are arguing that it's a good machine he should buy?

I didn't recommend him buying one I just said it isn't DOA or a piece of garbage. It's a very fast well built tablet. I did say the battery life is poor though but I just read that one of the main reasons behind the delays is that Microsoft was holding out for the 7 watt version of the i5 which could mean 7 - 8 hours of battery. If this is the case the Surface Pro could turn out to be one heck of a machine. I should have done more research on the subject instead of just repeating what others wrote before me.  A fault a lot of us seem to be doing more frequently, condemning something that we haven't personally tried ourselves simply because it's manufactured by a competitor.

 

When I tried Windows 8 Consumer Preview last August I to thought it was a horrible OS, I didn't get it. My feelings towards Windows 8 now however have completely changed as I now own one and use another from work, it really is a good tablet OS. I'm not sure I would want a desktop computer with it on there though, especially when OSX is still kicking about.


Edited by Relic - 1/23/13 at 11:50pm
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post #75 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


i5 is fast enough for many things ARM SoC are not. It is still a question what is the speed of that i5, but still. I'm running Lightroom on 3 years old ThinkPad with 2.4GHz i5 first gen., and it crunches 6MP RAW files instantly, while it hesitates a bit for 20MP RAW files... but no existing ARM tablet would come close to that.
A lot of Windows laptops have sub-4hr battery life. Of course 4hr does not give you same autonomy as 10 hour ARM tablets, but if I'd need more power and/or desktop software compatibility in tablet form factor, this would be acceptable compromise for me.

Oh yeah an i5 will defiantly be fast enough for anything you want to do with it, please let us know how it is when you finally get it. I am very curious, are you going to purchase it from the Microsoft Store, if so could you compare the size and weight of it with the Lenovo version, thanks.

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post #76 of 82

I'd take something like the Asus Taichi or Lenovo X1 Carbon with touch over the Surface.  

post #77 of 82

1st off im neutral on tablets since i dont own any and not planning to yet. I am intrigued by gadgets and the engineering within however. I love perusing specs..

 

So let me start by opening some eyes on narrow minded comments about being too expensive and lacking too much HD space.

 

1st you must separate a surface pro from the pricing of a tablet since it is a fully functioning pc.

as far as storage, yes its like 32 GB free on a 64GB pro. BUT you must remember this is a windows pc meaning: the bad, windows takes a lot of space, and the good, it has a usb port compatible with any external windows hd on the market, and it has a micro sd card allowing flash hd space of 64 GB for the cost of a sd card, 64GB go for about $60. 2nd look at the cost for GB upgrades between microsoft and apple, apple charges $100 to upgrade 16GB to a 32GB from a 16GB, and another $100 to upgrade 32GB to a 64, so you are paying $200 more from the base system just for

48GB of more hd space... in all standards this is the most expensive storage memory you can find :).

 

now the cons of surface pro: its thicker which is valid point. The thickness(and weight) is similar to the HP touchpad if you had a chance to see those. The battery life is shorter (more comparable to that of a laptop without the extended battery). and since its a fully function windows laptop it will be susceptible to the save viruses.

 

the overall decision shouldnt be based on do you want an apple pad or a ms pad, but do you want a touchpad (apple or android, who different comparison) or an ultrabook in the form factor of a touchpad. (ultrabook = laptap without the built in dvd drive in case you didnt know the difference)

 

I see valid argument for the MS pro , specially the 128 GB version since a) you pay $100 for an additional 64GB of space(all free) combined with $60 for a 64 GB flash card, youre getting a pleasant 192GB storage space with approx 40ish used, leaving approx 150GB free. the surface rt, i see less reason, is fairly expensive for a touchpach and its not an ultrabook and the memory is a bit lacking. the plus though is it has full ms office, and so if youre job consists of mostly office documents it could still be used as a work tablet.

post #78 of 82

Welcome.

 

Originally Posted by presto nee View Post
..the good, it has a usb port compatible with any external windows hd on the market…

 

Thing is, whether this is actually good anymore is debatable.

 

I mean, either you're powering a 2.5" drive from the tablet itself, cutting further into its dismal battery life, or you're plugged into the wall with a 3.5" drive. Not really the most portable of solutions. Not to mention having to carry around the drive.


the overall decision shouldnt be based on do you want an apple pad or a ms pad, but do you want a touchpad (apple or android, who different comparison) or an ultrabook in the form factor of a touchpad. (ultrabook = laptap without the built in dvd drive in case you didnt know the difference)

 

No, a tablet isn't an ultrabook. Is it even possible to use the Surface on one's lap?

 

Off-topic, but do you know who invented ultrabooks?


I see valid argument for the MS pro , specially the 128 GB version since a) you pay $100 for an additional 64GB of space(all free) combined with $60 for a 64 GB flash card, youre getting a pleasant 192GB storage space with approx 40ish used, leaving approx 150GB free.

 

Does it register as a single volume? Oh, I suppose not, since it's just regular desktop Windows, huh. Though I bet Windows RT doesn't do that, either. 

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post #79 of 82

I thought apple did but had to check, turns out ti was intel, they seem to have their fingers in everything..

 

I am not anti apple, I think the 1st ipad,ipod, iphone revolutionized those industries. PC not so much(but i think it was brilliant plan to switch the naming from macintosh to mac)

 

ultrabook definition does not depend upon its physical appearance but its capabilities, have you ever seen someone hold one up liek a book with the hinge vertical? no :)

and yes an ultrabook is a laptop without a cd drive (optical drive), they did this for two reasons, slim down the profile(why the call it ultra) and reduce costs.

 

I am not sure I understand your impact of separate volumes. would you expect to have a single program over say 50GB? if so it would be very difficult to place this on any tablet.

 

and I think you are confused that the surface is not a typical tablet, it does not use its usb to charge like a phone would, it has a separate charging point like all laptops and ultrabooks would.

 

-Update- Misread your HD comment, yes i agree it would further cut in on the on time if not plugged in, Id only see using ext hd as part of a docking station at the home or office.

 

so yes you can keep it on the wall charger while running a hd drive. I agree you do not want to carry around drives even though there are drives meant for just that reason (WD Passport). And yes I think its kind of silly to place it in laptop mode on your lap. ( i feel this way about all laptops, and never use one on a lap, only a table) I would more prefer to use it as a tablet on a lap and use its onscreen keyboard or the pen. but really when is typing on a lap without a table ever comfortable?

post #80 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by prestonee View Post

I am not anti apple, I think the 1st ipad,ipod, iphone revolutionized those industries. PC not so much(but i think it was brilliant plan to switch the naming from macintosh to mac)

Apple has innovated more in the PC market than in any other market. Just look at the Apple I to the Lisa to the Mac and to all the changes along the way that rest of the industry has played catch up with for decades. Now we have the MBA popularly which created the Ultrabook brand and Retina MBPs that will undoubtedly cause MS and WinPC vendors to play follow the leader once again.
Quote:
ultrabook definition does not depend upon its physical appearance but its capabilities, have you ever seen someone hold one up liek a book with the hinge vertical? no 1smile.gif
and yes an ultrabook is a laptop without a cd drive (optical drive), they did this for two reasons, slim down the profile(why the call it ultra) and reduce costs.

It's an Intel brand which is defined by Intel. At this time there is no requirement for the absence of an ODD for it to be an Ultrabook it's just that the maximum volume plus the minimum batter life as well as this being past 2010 means that an ODD is neither likely nor desired.

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