or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Investors › AAPL Investors › Apple's market cap dips below Exxon as stock selloff continues
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Apple's market cap dips below Exxon as stock selloff continues

post #1 of 144
Thread Starter 
Shares of Apple dropped more than 2 percent on Friday, continuing the company's selloff after this week's earnings report, and dropping its market capitalization below oil giant Exxon Mobil Corporation.

Stock


Shares of Apple had dropped as much as 2.4 percent in trading Friday afternoon, bringing its market cap to under $412 billion.

Shares of Exxon, meanwhile, were up more than a quarter of a percent, pushing its market capitalization to more than $417 billion. The changes made Exxon once again ? at least temporarily ? the most valuable company in the world by market cap.

Apple first passed Exxon's market cap in 2011, making the iPhone maker the world's most valuable company. It has held that distinction ever since, but shares of Apple have been dropping since late 2012 as investors fear Apple's slowing growth.

After Apple reported its holiday quarter on Wednesday, the company's stock dropped more than 10 percent in after-hours trading. Since then, the stock has not recovered, and is off more than $250 from its high reached in September during the iPhone 5 launch period.

While the battle for market cap supremacy between Exxon and Apple is largely superficial, a more serious low point was also achieved by Apple on Friday: with shares dipping below $440, the company's stock reached a new 52-week low.
post #2 of 144

It's just a game, no big deal.

post #3 of 144

Apple is doomed!!!!

Mac Mini (Mid 2011) 2.5 GHz Core i5

120 GB SSD/500 GB HD/8 GB RAM

AMD Radeon HD 6630M 256 MB

Reply

Mac Mini (Mid 2011) 2.5 GHz Core i5

120 GB SSD/500 GB HD/8 GB RAM

AMD Radeon HD 6630M 256 MB

Reply
post #4 of 144
Dear Wall Street,

Apple is not going to split the stock.
post #5 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

It's just a game, no big deal.

That's easy for you to say, if you don't have any skin in the game. I don't have any skin in the game right now at the moment either, but this is not good for Apple or for those people who invest their hard earned money in that company. Most people aren't Al Gore, who gets to buy their shares at around $7.

post #6 of 144
Guess those stock dividends and huge profits did nothing to solidify investor confidence in Apple's future.
post #7 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

That's easy for you to say, if you don't have any skin in the game. I don't have any skin in the game right now at the moment either, but this is not good for Apple or for those people who invest their hard earned money in that company. Most people aren't Al Gore, who gets to buy their shares at around $7.

It's only a big deal for those that decide to sell. Now for those victims of this craziness it's total crap I agree.

post #8 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Apple 
[" url="/t/155641/apples-market-cap-dips-below-exxon-as-stock-selloff-continues#post_2264759"]That's easy for you to say, if you don't have any skin in the game. I don't have any skin in the game right now at the moment either, but this is not good for Apple or for those people who invest their hard earned money in that company. Most people aren't Al Gore, who gets to buy their shares at around $7.

The second greatest advice my father ever gave me was: You never make or lose money in the stock market until you sell.

Of course, dividends are an exception but the general rules of thumb always have caveats. Think of the stock market as Schrödinger's Investment. You don't know if you'll ultimately make or lose money on an investment until you decide to cash out.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #9 of 144

Apple reports biggest quarter in its history, setting sales records. Also sets new corporate quarterly record in tech sector.

 

 

 

 

*couldn't sell infinity-million iPhones*

 

 

 

 

*Time to hammer the stock*

 

 

 

 

smh

post #10 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzz View Post

Guess those stock dividends and huge profits did nothing to solidify investor confidence in Apple's future.

As I mentioned in another thread, dividends never do that. All they do is to burst the speculation bubble, because once you start giving out dividends, people start caring about actual profit. Microsoft made the same mistake and Jobs knew this, but Cook is only now learning it the hard way.
post #11 of 144
Isn't this just panic selling right now? At what point does it become ridiculous?
post #12 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzz View Post

Guess those stock dividends and huge profits did nothing to solidify investor confidence in Apple's future.

 

Zero growth is Zero growth.  They just did 8% if you account the 13 weeks VS 14 weeks and just guided no growth.

 

What do you think the "growth" funds are doing?  ...they are dumping and dividend is still to small for value fund to pick up the stock.

 

I am down 80% in my Apple account.  I am bringing new cash to do a reset of all my Jan 2015 leaps, which means I will roll down everthing and restarts like I just bough here. I am not going to take any chance, its all 2 years out options from now on and I will convert to stocks when I can.

post #13 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by majjo View Post


I thought you brought in at 457.

I waiting to see how far down it's going to go... I'll probably buy in on the first uptick

No, my last trade was last week, I bought in at 499.9999, and I sold right before the close on earnings day for around 514.

 

I haven't touched AAPL since earnings day, and I don't have any immediate plans. AAPL needs to prove itself to me, before I put my cash on the line.

post #14 of 144
As posted elsewhere today...Of late I've come to the sad conclusion that Tim Cook is utterly incompetent without Steve Jobs' vision and paint by number directives. Been holding AAPL since it was $119 and re-upped at $514 so save the troll comments. The ugly truth is Tim Cook seriously screwed up!

1) The uncharacteristic smorgasbord product launch in Sept
2) The Maps fiasco
3) The Forestall food fight
4) Massive product constraints
5) Broken supply chain
No Spotify, no Waze, no_?
6) Openheimer changing AAPL's guidance MO at the worst possible juncture.

It has become apparent to me that with Steve gone and Cook at the helm APPL is a broken company.
post #15 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


The second greatest advice my father ever gave me was: You never make or lose money in the stock market until you sell.
 

 

I fully agree, and that is great advice. Unfortunately, many people do engage in panic selling and they follow the herd. I would not panic now, and I certainly wouldn't sell, if I was stuck in a bad position.

post #16 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post


As I mentioned in another thread, dividends never do that. All they do is to burst the speculation bubble, because once you start giving out dividends, people start caring about actual profit. Microsoft made the same mistake and Jobs knew this, but Cook is only now learning it the hard way.

 

total BS, Apple is dropping and Microsoft dropped on growth deceleration.  The price of a stock is based on either its growth potentiel or on valuation. Apple as lost its growth potentiel and the only thing remaining is valuation. Dividend is the thing holding it right now, but its not enough for value funds to pick up the massive growth fund dumping.

 

What Apple should have done is rise the dividend to support the stock until they can announce new products or prove they can still get there thing back together. They can double the div and still continu to pile up cash. Or maybe they know they are going down and just want to keep all the cash in, which means the company is now dead meat.

post #17 of 144
While Apple is down 2%, Amazon is up another 3% today. lol.gif
post #18 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


The second greatest advice my father ever gave me was: You never make or lose money in the stock market until you sell.

Of course, dividends are an exception but the general rules of thumb always have caveats. Think of the stock market as Schrödinger's Investment. You don't know if you'll ultimately make or lose money on an investment until you decide to cash out.

Your father probably never held shares of Nortel, pre-2009 GM or 360 Networks :)

post #19 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

 

The price of a stock is based on either its growth potentiel or on valuation. 

 

But valuation is a subjective thing?

post #20 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

 

I fully agree, and that is great advice. Unfortunately, many people do engage in panic selling and they follow the herd. I would not panic now, and I certainly wouldn't sell, if I was stuck in a bad position.


Yes... just watching the heard mentality.  I find it interesting that the same blowhards that had everything to do with tanking the economy, are the same people that folks STILL listen to.

I'm going to have a big talk over the weekend and decide to buy more AAPL.  The price is just too good to pass up.  In the end, I hope Apple decides the price is too good and buy back a bunch of their stock back.  Hell, I would.  I'm not giving up my current AAPL holdings by a longshot.

post #21 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

While Apple is down 2%, Amazon is up another 3% today. lol.gif

I'm surrounded by Macs here and I am an Apple bull I guess you could say, but I'm going to be trading some real crappy stocks soon, like maybe AMZN, FB and other companies that I feel are overvalued, because at the end of the day, the only thing that counts is making money, IMO.

post #22 of 144

deleted


Edited by MacRulez - 5/16/13 at 12:32pm
post #23 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

Well its a all in one computer + screen. I some point you just cant make major changes anymore, this is why the introduced new product categories like ipod, iphone and ipads.


Believe me you can make more then three desktop configurations. I think Apple was very foolish to kill off their true mid range machines like the PowerMac G4 or the Cube. They should have kept around similar configurations (with higher modern day specs of course.)

post #24 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

 

But valuation is a subjective thing?

 

On the contrary, the valuation is the objective part of the price. All stocks are worth what they can output in profits then distribute on dividends. Currently the market average PE on valuation stocks is 15 because interest rate are so low. At 15 PE youre typical value stock will pay 3% to 5% yields.

 

A stock with a PE > 15 is considering growth in the price.  The subjective part is all hopes of growth. People will pay more for a stock if they think the stock will growth, but in the end, all stocks comes down to there valuation level.

 

On the opposite side, if a company is shrinking, you will see valuation comes down and could have stocks with PE below 10. Its the opposite, the stocks underperform because earnings will drop and it will lose its capacity to pay its dvidends. 

 

Apple is currently making a transition from a growth stock to a value stock, assuming it can maintain its earnings.  I am betting Apple can maintain its earnings and will get very undervalue (even for a value stock) during the transition. So I will take position in jan 2015 leaps in hope to get back to the level I had when the stock was at $700.  After that I am out.


Edited by herbapou - 1/25/13 at 10:55am
post #25 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

Your father probably never held shares of Nortel, pre-2009 GM or 360 Networks 1smile.gif

The third greatest advice he told me was: "The stock market is run two emotions: fear and greed."

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #26 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by majjo View Post


I thought you brought in at 457.

I waiting to see how far down it's going to go... I'll probably buy in on the first uptick


There's bound to be bounce... but I wouldn't say the selling is over at that point.

 

Regardless, buying in the $440 range isn't really a bad thing, imho.

na na na na na...
Reply
na na na na na...
Reply
post #27 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Apple 
[" url="/t/155641/apples-market-cap-dips-below-exxon-as-stock-selloff-continues#post_2264822"]I'm surrounded by Macs here and I am an Apple bull I guess you could say, but I'm going to be trading some real crappy stocks soon, like maybe AMZN, FB and other companies that I feel are overvalued, because at the end of the day, the only thing that counts is making money, IMO.
Can someone explain why Apple is sitting on all this cash? I think they need to do something with it - If not an acquisition then increase the dividend or share buy back. But what's the point of hoarding $137B in cash?
post #28 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by pik80 View Post


Believe me you can make more then three desktop configurations. I think Apple was very foolish to kill off their true mid range machines like the PowerMac G4 or the Cube. They should have kept around similar configurations (with higher modern day specs of course.)

So Apple should keep products that don't sell and aren't making their investment costs back or where the R&D could be put to better use making their popular products better? You keep stating how Apple has done you wrong and should be doing this or that because of your self stated entitlement because you bought a PPC Mac 8 years ago but you haven't quite grasped the concept of Apple as not only a profit company but the most successful publicly traded company in the world, unless Exxon can beat their net profits.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #29 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Can someone explain why Apple is sitting on all this cash? I think they need to do something with it - If not an acquisition then increase the dividend or share buy back. But what's the point of hoarding $137B in cash?

Power. I want an Atomic bomb, although I know I can't use it.

 

It's all about power and sending a message.

post #30 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by majjo View Post


I thought you brought in at 457.

I waiting to see how far down it's going to go... I'll probably buy in on the first uptick

 

 

Good luck timing that. It was up about 6 at one point today. 

post #31 of 144
Originally Posted by pedromartins 

BEST QUARTER EVER (revenue). If they can maintain this, what do you want more?

 

Revenue means nothing without profits.  Apple revenue rose but the profit remained flat. Apple also guided flat for next quarter.  Apple is making a move from growth to value and all those shares need to move around. This is going to take months.

post #32 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


So Apple should keep products that don't sell and aren't making their investment costs back or where the R&D could be put to better use making their popular products better?

Products like that would sell. As we can clearly see from their earnings report it is their current line up that is the problem not what I am proposing.

post #33 of 144
Keep on going down! Makes it cheaper to go private. $200 should just about do it.
post #34 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

 

Revenue means nothing without profits.  Apple revenue rose but the profit remained flat. Apple also guided flat for next quarter.  Apple is making a move from growth to value and all those shares need to move around. This is going to take months.

 

Without profits? Another one... almost 14 billions, up 8%, with all those production problems are what? The problem is that you guys left your little brains on a bag and are letting a poor and stupid algorithm doing things for you.

post #35 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

 

Revenue means nothing without profits.  Apple revenue rose but the profit remained flat. Apple also guided flat for next quarter.  Apple is making a move from growth to value and all those shares need to move around. This is going to take months.

I don't see how anybody is really surprised.

 

I wrote last year that Apple paying out a dividend was an admission that they were changing from a super growth company and stabilizing. With as huge as Apple is, they couldn't keep growing like a startup company forever.

post #36 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by pik80 View Post

Products like that would sell. As we can clearly see from their earnings report it is their current line up that is the problem not what I am proposing.
Based on what? What evidence is there that there is week demand for the iMac? That certainly didn't come from Apple. Why would there be week + delays in shipment if the demand was weak?
post #37 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

Revenue means nothing without profits.  Apple revenue rose but the profit remained flat. Apple also guided flat for next quarter.  Apple is making a move from growth to value and all those shares need to move around. This is going to take months.

Having flat growth is not the same as being without profit. YoY when you adjust for the week difference Apple's profit growth is around 10%. For a company that makes more profit in a quarter than most companies make in revenue a year near 3x what Amazon has made in profit over its entire life as a company that's really quite remarkable. I have no idea how people expect a company as large as Apple to continue to do 20% growth YoY. That is not sustainable but they can still make billions more in profit per year which more than I can say for many of those other companies people believe in.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #38 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by pik80 View Post


Believe me you can make more then three desktop configurations. I think Apple was very foolish to kill off their true mid range machines like the PowerMac G4 or the Cube. They should have kept around similar configurations (with higher modern day specs of course.)

 

 

I too was sad to see the Cube go, but I think it was a victim of two things, 1) Apple had too many products that competed with the Cube (e.g. like the Power Mac G4 you mention) often that did more for less, and 2) the economy had a hick up around then. Apple took a 200 million dollar right off on canceling components that quarter. It was trying to clear out inventory. At my University at the end of the quarter I was able to buy a new dual 500 mhz Power Mac for less than $1, 500. Apple even threw in a free 17 inch see through CRT monitor (normally $799) for free.  

 

I think the Mac Mini took the place of the Cube at a more affordable price point. I don't think Apple needs another category desktop if the Mac Pro had an entry level option that allowed component upgrades. There is a lot of people like myself who would not get either an iMac or Mac Pro because the iMac doesn't give me enough control and the Mac Pro is more of a computer than I need and/or an willing to pay for.  Moreover, I think the new iMac is a mistake. Ive lost focus on the what the function of a desktop is. Weight and thinness aren't really key considerations. Apple set aside usability to achieve features not needed in a desktop. 

post #39 of 144
We are back above Exxon at least for the moment. Hopefully with the news that iMac production problems are being resolved we should see Wall Street get its head out its ass and value the stock correctly.
post #40 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsonice View Post

We are back above Exxon at least for the moment. Hopefully with the news that iMac production problems are being resolved we should see Wall Street get its head out its ass and value the stock correctly.
 

It's going to take a lot more than one little positive story about an iMac, IMO. There have been 1,000 negative stories and BS in the past months, so we need a bunch more positive stories coming out.

 

I'd like to see Apple release a press release next week announcing the China Mobile deal. I'd like to see Apple announcing some brand new product within the next few months that not a single person here knows about. Something totally new and unexpected. I'd like to see Apple being more forceful and countering a lot of the BS that gets written by trashy media outlets. Basically, there are a lot of things that I'd like to see, but we'll see what happens.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: AAPL Investors
AppleInsider › Forums › Investors › AAPL Investors › Apple's market cap dips below Exxon as stock selloff continues