Apple's market cap dips below Exxon as stock selloff continues - Page 4

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apple ][ 

Stolen? WTF?

 

I notice that ignorant people often spout out the myth about Apple having "stolen" from Xerox. Apple didn't steal shit from Xerox. Xerox was granted pre-IPO stock from Apple, in exchange for their visits. Being able to purchase pre-IPO shares of AAPL sounds like a pretty damn good deal, especially in retrospect. 

Isn't this where you're also supposed to mention the lawsuit that Xerox lost...

[just trying to help  ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pik80 

Whether they licensed it or not doesn't change the point. Either way the idea was not Apples. Job's point was that consumers are a bunch of dolts that can't come up with creative solutions to problems and yet the idea behind the PC wasn't even their idea! The stupidity of this is beyond comprehension. Whether it was stolen or licensed doesn't change the point of this argument.

So the only time anyone can be given credit for creativity or innovation is if they come up with something while sitting in a cave, having had absolutely no influence from the outside world or anything that currently exists? Jobs/Apple shouldn't be given a shred of credit for taking whatever basic concepts Xerox had and improving it in useability and scope in a way that not even Xerox would have envisioned or imagined? Good luck finding a single original idea anywhere then. Oh, and jobs is right The average consumer ISN'T insightful, creative, intelligent, or knowledgeable enough to come up with the next step in technology- and the next step has never been dictated by consumer demands, but by a small amount of people like Steve Jobs taking huge risks on new ideas and implementations. The fact that you attack SJ over this and make him out to be some sort of monster or condascending asshole because of this basic fact is pretty despicable and telling. Almost everything Apple has ever done had been initially panned by consumers, the media, competitors, etc- right until it became the defacto standard. People are used to what already exist and are generally reluctant to any change. The iPad was met with an inital barrage of negativity- so was the iPod, and so was pretty much every single small and large step forward in the computer space initiated by Apple, such as removing optical disk drives, integrating the battery having all flash memory, etc etc. 

You're a troll, and subtelty is not one of your smart suits. Yes, whether something was licensed or stolen matters. Alot. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by island hermit 

Isn't this where you're also supposed to mention the lawsuit that Xerox lost...

 

[just trying to help  ]

Thanks! 

From Wiki:

Much later, in the midst of the 1988–1994 Apple v. Microsoft lawsuit, in which Apple accused Microsoft of violating its copyright by appropriating the use of the "look and feel" of the Apple Macintosh GUI, Xerox also sued Apple on similar grounds. The Xerox lawsuit was dismissed because the presiding judge dismissed most of Xerox's complaints as being inappropriate for a variety of legal reasons.^[7]

"Oh, and jobs is right The average consumer ISN'T insightful, creative, intelligent, or knowledgeable enough to come up with the next step in technology- and the next step has never been dictated by consumer demands, but by a small amount of people like Steve Jobs taking huge risks on new ideas and implementations."

I am insightful enough to know that for an example the Finder is one of the worst examples of file navigation I have ever seen and yet all through out Jobs reign we still rely on that crappy program still to this very day. This is an example of a area where Apple's ideas have terribly failed. I have seen many people provide much better file navigation solutions then Apple has been able to come up with.

It's sad but it's just paper wealth. Apple's real wealth is their engineering/management talent, intellectual property, products and brand and these things mostly stay the same even as the stock price fluctuates.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jungmark 


People would never thought of cars and would want faster horses.

Second: previous quarters Apple stated 50% of new buyers switched from windows. That's why they have and are outpacing the PC industry.

I understand what Henry Ford was talking about and it is not true. Sometimes Steve came up with ok ideas and sometimes he came up with some of the worst ideas in the world. Remember Ping? The one button mouse that was supposed to make computing easier but actually made it harder? The circle mouse? The iPod shuffle that didn't have any buttons on it? Making iTunes a bloated mess rather then splitting it off into about five separate apps? The original macs heavy dependance on the mouse where Steve did not understand the concept that you work more efficiently if you can keep your hands on the keyboard more often? I can go on and on and on and on.

"previous quarters Apple stated 50% of new buyers switched from windows. That's why they have and are outpacing the PC industry."

Doesn't matter much, the market share is still around 2%.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jungmark 


Fine. Quit your bitching and buy one of those computers.

Which computers? What are talking about?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 


If you think there is a better option — which you undoubtedly decided because it has more knobs and whistles — then what is the problem? I personally try to use the Finder as little as possible. If I need the file system I tend to use Terminal but at this point most of my navigation is through apps doing what they were brilliantly designed to do. Finder is no different but it's use is being obsolesced in favour of more efficient ways of computers; ways that I'm sure you've complained about with the iOS.

Unfortunately not all apps have built in file navigation so you still have to rely on the Finder. I use 3rd party navigation apps as much as but they can't completely replace the finder for reasons I have discussed elsewhere. Yes, iOS has a lot wrong about it's file navigation as well.

That's e-fricking-nough of that.

There's being super-critical of Apple, which is fine and breeds a lot of discussion, and then there's just making up fricking LIES when you've already been told the truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freshmaker 

It depends - it will be an all or nothing thing.  They are going to see how subsidy-free phones sell on T-Mobile.  I wouldn't bet on it happening either, at least until each of the carriers has higher smartphone penetration.  I could see them cutting subsidies and then lowering the monthly bills somewhat.  If one does it, they'll get hammered.  If they all do it, then Apple's the one that's screwed.

It happened here in Romania this year. Until now the price of an iPhone with contract was 200 Euro on all three major networks. This year all three networks stopped the subsidies at the same time. Now an iPhone 5 with contract sells for 370 Euro. And nothing bad happened to the networks. They are happily selling a lot of Samsung Galaxy S3 for 150 Euro now. Look at China. The biggest network, China Mobile, has like 80% market share and they don't sell the iPhone. I don't think China Mobile will ever subsidy the iPhone. They don't need to. If Apple wants to sell the iPhone through China Mobile they have to give up that huge margin.

deleted

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apple ][ 

Quote:

Originally Posted by pedromartins 

It's just a game, no big deal.

That's easy for you to say, if you don't have any skin in the game. I don't have any skin in the game right now at the moment either, but this is not good for Apple or for those people who invest their hard earned money in that company. Most people aren't Al Gore, who gets to buy their shares at around $7.

I suspect that most "investors" are in fact nothing more than speculators and gamblers. For example I think the vast majority of corporate investors are interested in nothing more than their expectation that the paper will bring high returns. The name of the company on the paper is not important. That would also be a reasonable explanation for the current phenomenon: The corporate investors (pension funds, insurance companies, hedge funds) are now sceptical that the paper will increase that much in value, or worse, will fluctuate wildly, and are therefore re-investing elsewhere. My impression is that there is no emotional connection to apple whatsoever and not even any particular interest in the products,  but that they are solely in with the expectation of high profits.

And for the small speculators: Its nothing more than gambling. I have NO sympathy for those that lose heavily.

Looking at things a different way. Taking Market Cap as the sole yardstick of "value" is only another way of saying that the ONLY thing that matters is profit. I reject that point of view on ethical and moral grounds. But if you do regard other aspects as important in the "value" calculation, then it is absurd to talk about apple as being the most valuable company in history. Even in the limited context of the mobile phone/computing sector it is absurd to value Apple above all the other enterprises that make mobile computing possible at all. Apple doesn't even feature in the list of those companies, without who'se contribution Apple would have no market at all. They are really just at the end of the food chain.

In talking about value, I suggest it's important to recognize that any given player is just one link in a long chain of interdependencies. Similarly, when talking about "intellectual property" it does good to recognize that each incremental improvement, innovation or "invention" is nothing more than a small step on a journey that commenced many many decades ago. Certainly there are important milestones ... newton, einstein come to mind, but even these build upon the sum of what went before. Taking this view creates a completely different view of the world, and one that is more humane.

So, don't whine when your "investment" gets you burned. You deserve it.

Originally Posted by archurban 
there is nobody who can competes with Exxon-mobile. unfortunately, apple will drop even further more. don't expect apple as investing stock anymore.

Holy cow, Exxon-Mobile has fanboys? 

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 
For an oil company? I'm going to go out on a limb and say he's a petroll. (see what I did there?)

Slick, man. Real slick.

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 
It's not too crude?

Well, I'm sure we can refine it if we get to benzene the rules a bit.