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Apple's market cap dips below Exxon as stock selloff continues - Page 2

post #41 of 144

I think the sell off is based on iPhone sales figures. I read an article that I think is scaring investors, and it was the ending of subsidies from wireless companies. 

 

Apple so far has been able to get away with higher subsidies for it's iPhone than any other phone out there because they've shown that iPhone is in-demand. As soon as there are any indications that people are moving away from iPhone and are looking into other options, the ability to strong arm a wireless carrier into higher subsidies, or bigger bulk purchases of iPhones for a cheaper price, dwindles.

 

Verizon Wireless just started carrying iPhones not too long ago, and they've usually enjoyed profits on selling their phones, but with the iPhone they've seen that profit go down significantly. Google is rumored to be releasing their first Motorola phone with the same concept it has with the Nexus phones, and that is bringing the off-contract price of the phone down. If Google were to release a phone for Verizon at $350 retail price, that is $300 LESS than a new generation iPhone at retail price. Those numbers would entice any carrier. Google is rumored to be bringing this device to all carriers too at that low price.

 

So to sum it up, if Apple can't leverage it's domination on carrier subsidy with strong demand for iPhones, then carriers will do away with subsidies, and will most likely either 1) Stop selling the iPhone, and let Apple sell it themselves or 2) The bulk order of iPhones will be at a much lesser price than Apple is currently demanding

 

Margins will go down, and Margins is basically what has kept Apple insanely profitable.

post #42 of 144

deleted


Edited by MacRulez - 5/16/13 at 12:32pm
post #43 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

 

Revenue means nothing without profits.  Apple revenue rose but the profit remained flat. Apple also guided flat for next quarter.  Apple is making a move from growth to value and all those shares need to move around. This is going to take months.

 

 

Yes, except Apple with a decent margin beat the consensus on earnings per share. It was slightly lower than then previous year's quarter, but that was attributed to there being more shares outstanding. 

post #44 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Can someone explain why Apple is sitting on all this cash? I think they need to do something with it - If not an acquisition then increase the dividend or share buy back. But what's the point of hoarding $137B in cash?

1. They already started paying dividends
2. They announced a stock buyback.
3. They announced $10 B in capital expenditures for this year.

Have you been sleeping for the past 12 months?
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #45 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ Web View Post

As posted elsewhere today...Of late I've come to the sad conclusion that Tim Cook is utterly incompetent without Steve Jobs' vision and paint by number directives. Been holding AAPL since it was $119 and re-upped at $514 so save the troll comments. The ugly truth is Tim Cook seriously screwed up!

1) The uncharacteristic smorgasbord product launch in Sept
2) The Maps fiasco
3) The Forestall food fight
4) Massive product constraints
5) Broken supply chain
No Spotify, no Waze, no_?
6) Openheimer changing AAPL's guidance MO at the worst possible juncture.

It has become apparent to me that with Steve gone and Cook at the helm APPL is a broken company.

This is a joke right?
1 Most of the products needed a refresh. If they didn't refresh them people would be complaining.
2 mobile me, antenna gate, etc. beside google maps suggested an illegal left turn after crossing five lanes of traffic just a couple years ago.
3 Avie T, fadall, Rubinstein, rubin, pagemaster
4 massive for the iMac, record numbers of iOS devices sold
5 based on a unsubstantiated rumor
post #46 of 144
Here's some commentary I think is spot on.

http://techpinions.com/what-tech-company-is-healthier-than-apple-2/13971
FalKirk Columnist/Mod • 2 hours ago −
The market is irrational in the short-run. We can only pray that it is rational in the long-run, otherwise, it's never rational at all.

When analyzing a company, we need to leave market moves out of the equation. Apple has many strengths and many weaknesses. But many misguided pundits are mistaking Apple's strengths for weaknesses.

in my article yesterday, I went through Apple's earnings statement. Mac down 16% due to supply constraints, iPad up 60% with the iPad Mini supply constrained, iPhone up 39% with the iPhone 5 and the iPhone 4 supply constrained, 75 million new iOS devices sold in a quarter, revenue up 27%, profit up 8%, cash up $16 billion for a total of $137 billion.

Apple may have many issues, but the bogey-man of low demand is certainly not one of them. Just think about the above numbers for a minute. Apple sold out their entire inventory of Macs, iPad Minis, iPhone 5(s) and iPhone 4(s). How is that low demand?

Low demand is NOT one of Apple's issues. Neither is high price. Anyone who takes Economics 101 knows that it is axiomatic that price is not too high if demand exceeds supply.

If you eliminate the "demand is too low"/"prices are too high" arguments, most of today's criticisms of Apple fall away. Let's criticize Apple for its weaknesses and stop criticizing Apple for its inherent strengths.
post #47 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrrodriguez View Post

I think the sell off is based on iPhone sales figures. I read an article that I think is scaring investors, and it was the ending of subsidies from wireless companies. 

 

Apple so far has been able to get away with higher subsidies for it's iPhone than any other phone out there because they've shown that iPhone is in-demand. As soon as there are any indications that people are moving away from iPhone and are looking into other options, the ability to strong arm a wireless carrier into higher subsidies, or bigger bulk purchases of iPhones for a cheaper price, dwindles.

 

Verizon Wireless just started carrying iPhones not too long ago, and they've usually enjoyed profits on selling their phones, but with the iPhone they've seen that profit go down significantly. Google is rumored to be releasing their first Motorola phone with the same concept it has with the Nexus phones, and that is bringing the off-contract price of the phone down. If Google were to release a phone for Verizon at $350 retail price, that is $300 LESS than a new generation iPhone at retail price. Those numbers would entice any carrier. Google is rumored to be bringing this device to all carriers too at that low price.

 

So to sum it up, if Apple can't leverage it's domination on carrier subsidy with strong demand for iPhones, then carriers will do away with subsidies, and will most likely either 1) Stop selling the iPhone, and let Apple sell it themselves or 2) The bulk order of iPhones will be at a much lesser price than Apple is currently demanding

 

Margins will go down, and Margins is basically what has kept Apple insanely profitable.

you do realize APPL has 85% of ATT 65% of Verizon 60% of sprint, right?

 

They wouldn't dare. In fact, it the rumor comes that verizon will do it, Apple just needs to ask for a much bigger deal (all iphones free on contract) otherwise they stop selling iPhones to verizon and they disappear 1 year later. You just can't piss off Apple right now. 

post #48 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

 

 

1) Apple had too many products that competed with the Cube (e.g. like the Power Mac G4 you mention) often that did more for less,

THANK YOU for providing a reasonable observation to their desktop line. You wouldn't believe how hard it is for me to make the point that they need a wider desktop selection. It is important to point out that the Cube didn't work since Apple had too many competing products at that time. Today, however, it doesn't have any products that compete with it. The mini isn't really the same thing, it's was Apple's first low end machine which was a new category for them. A really low end machine doesn't make sense for the kind of multimedia focus that Apple has. I don't think it makes sense for the Pro to have an entry level option since you would end up with a big box that is mostly empty inside. They should just come out with some kind of an in between machine. I still believe that trying to please everyone with three machines isn't possible. Two of their three desktops place their focus on thinness which I believe is a really big mistake.

post #49 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

The third greatest advice he told me was: "The stock market is run two emotions: fear and greed."

For AAPL, it looks like we are near the extreme fear end of the emotional spectrum.
post #50 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

The only good news is this happened while the stock market as a whole made huge gains. That buffer stopped further panic which might have seen it drop another 30 or 40 points. 


Sadly, it looks like the Naz is still in oversold teritory... which could lead to further problems over the next few weeks.

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post #51 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


It's a desktop. How revolutionary can it be. Besides, the Mac had increased sales every qtr before last for a while. Many are switching to laptops. That is the current trend.

If its the design that's a problem, why aren't they going to a competitor. If u haven't notice, Apple was the only vendor growing sales prior to the last qtr.


A desktop can be very revolutionary. Look how the iMac evolved in it's first six years. Laptops are good for some but not all. I don't know why others haven't moved to a competitor but the reason I haven't moved is because I would like to stay on the Mac OS. I am not staying because I like their desktop line up.

post #52 of 144
Originally Posted by pik80 View Post
A desktop can be very revolutionary. Look how the iMac evolved in it's first six years. Laptops are good for some but not all. I don't know why others haven't moved to a competitor but the reason I haven't moved is because I would like to stay on the Mac OS. I am not staying because I like their desktop line up.

 

So why aren't you complaining about how the laptops "aren't revolutionary"? Your repeated cries about the desktops are patently (literally!) false, and they're obviously based in some erroneous thinking somewhere, so I figure you'd have the same complaint with the laptop lineup.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #53 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

That's easy for you to say, if you don't have any skin in the game. I don't have any skin in the game right now at the moment either, but this is not good for Apple or for those people who invest their hard earned money in that company. Most people aren't Al Gore, who gets to buy their shares at around $7.

Actually, if you are an actual investor instead of a speculator or day trader then the current stock moves likely have no impact at all. I have a lot of skin in on AAPL, but I consider it a 5-10 year investment. If I actually see a problem with the fundamentals, I'll bail out but trying to guess when the stock is going to move a few dollars one way or the other is a fool's errand.

post #54 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

So why aren't you complaining about how the laptops "aren't revolutionary"? 

 

I figure you'd have the same complaint with the laptop lineup.

No, I don't have any complaints about the laptop line because it has been revolutionized recently. The MacBook Air was a revolutionary design that replaced the MacBook only about two years ago. Many people are using the iPad and iPad Mini as a laptop replacements and that is a revolutionary design that is only about there years old. That's two revolutionary designs to the laptop line in three years. I'd say that is pretty good. People in the other forum were calling me an "Apple hater" which couldn't be any further from the truth. I like a lot of their non desktop products. I am just not a delusional fan boy that heaps praise on anything with an Apple logo on it. btw what happened to that comment someone posted about you being the biggest troll on AI? It was getting tons of likes and then it just disappeared just like that... *poof*.

post #55 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by pik80 View Post


A desktop can be very revolutionary. Look how the iMac evolved in it's first six years. Laptops are good for some but not all. I don't know why others haven't moved to a competitor but the reason I haven't moved is because I would like to stay on the Mac OS. I am not staying because I like their desktop line up.

Yeah and the iMac evolved when it became thinner with the LCD tech. The just made the iMac even thinner and you're complaining. They fit a friggin computer in an LCD screen for Lord's sake. What would be the next revolution? Don't say that's Apple's job because that is such a copout.
post #56 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrrodriguez View Post

So to sum it up, if Apple can't leverage it's domination on carrier subsidy with strong demand for iPhones, then carriers will do away with subsidies, and will most likely either 1) Stop selling the iPhone, and let Apple sell it themselves or 2) The bulk order of iPhones will be at a much lesser price than Apple is currently demanding

 

Margins will go down, and Margins is basically what has kept Apple insanely profitable.

 

Your premise is absolutely right, but your conclusion is ridiculously false. If there isn't strong demand for iPhones, then carriers will not accept subsidizing the iPhone. But if that ever came true, it's not margins that will go down but sales.

 

Of course, demand for the iPhone isn't going down. It's going up. Do you think Verizon or AT&T or any other major mobile operator is going to give up carrying the iPhone. The iPhone accounted for 84% of smartphone activations on AT&T and 62% on Verizon. Would you advise either of them to stop offering the iPhone?

post #57 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

That's easy for you to say, if you don't have any skin in the game. I don't have any skin in the game right now at the moment either, but this is not good for Apple or for those people who invest their hard earned money in that company. Most people aren't Al Gore, who gets to buy their shares at around $7.

You too could have bought it at $7 at the time that Gore (and other directors and employees -- some of whom are, I am sure, even right-wing fanatics like you) got his at-the-money for providing his services to the company.

post #58 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


Yeah and the iMac evolved when it became thinner with the LCD tech. The just made the iMac even thinner and you're complaining. They fit a friggin computer in an LCD screen for Lord's sake. What would be the next revolution? Don't say that's Apple's job because that is such a copout.


We have already been discussing what the next revolution could be if you have been reading the forum. Of course I am complaining about a thinner iMac screen. Thin is not the most important attribute of a desktop. The same complaint can be said of the Mini.

post #59 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


The second greatest advice my father ever gave me was: You never make or lose money in the stock market until you sell.

Of course, dividends are an exception but the general rules of thumb always have caveats. Think of the stock market as Schrödinger's Investment. You don't know if you'll ultimately make or lose money on an investment until you decide to cash out.

What's the greatest? And why isn't that on your tagline?

post #60 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by pik80 View Post

No, I don't have any complaints about the laptop line because it has been revolutionized recently. 

 

Can you explain to me why revolutionizing product categories is something only expected of Apple? Why don't I hear "HP should be revolutionizing the desktop."? I mean, sure, you can argue that the current iMac design is just evolutionary from the G5 version released in 2004 (which I don't agree with) but you would think that the vendors which make up 90% of the desktop market should have more responsibility to produce revolutionary design than the 10% market share holder.

 

So Apple now is expected to reinvent the smartphone, tablet, laptop, and desktop segments on an annual basis. Otherwise their stock will take a beating!

post #61 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post


As I mentioned in another thread, dividends never do that. All they do is to burst the speculation bubble, because once you start giving out dividends, people start caring about actual profit. Microsoft made the same mistake and Jobs knew this, but Cook is only now learning it the hard way.

You are exactly right. It attracts a completely new clientele, namely, 'value' or 'income' funds (whose charter does not typically allow them to buy non-dividend-paying stocks). Once they get into the game, they simply start pulling you relentlessly in the direction of "want more dividends, want more dividends, want more dividends.....". In the meantime, your previous clientele -- growth funds -- didn't want that in the first place. So you end up with shareholders at war with themselves and a schizophrenic stock.

 

That is why some of us bemoaned the decision to initiate dividends. A share repurchase would have been so much better. Indeed, that's Apple needs to do now to change the market's mindset.

 

Short of that (or some mind-boggling, world-changing product announcement), except a long, sideways winter......

post #62 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

you do realize APPL has 85% of ATT 65% of Verizon 60% of sprint, right?

 

They wouldn't dare. In fact, it the rumor comes that verizon will do it, Apple just needs to ask for a much bigger deal (all iphones free on contract) otherwise they stop selling iPhones to verizon and they disappear 1 year later. You just can't piss off Apple right now. 

It depends - it will be an all or nothing thing.  They are going to see how subsidy-free phones sell on T-Mobile.  I wouldn't bet on it happening either, at least until each of the carriers has higher smartphone penetration.  I could see them cutting subsidies and then lowering the monthly bills somewhat.  If one does it, they'll get hammered.  If they all do it, then Apple's the one that's screwed.

post #63 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

total BS.....Apple as lost its growth potentiel ......

Total BS.

 

 

Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

What Apple should have done is rise the dividend to support the stock until they can announce new products or prove they can still get there thing back together. They can double the div and still continu to pile up cash. Or maybe they know they are going down and just want to keep all the cash in, which means the company is now dead meat.

 

What did I tell you? (See Post #63 above)! lol.gif


Edited by anantksundaram - 1/25/13 at 12:41pm
post #64 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


The third greatest advice he told me was: "The stock market is run two emotions: fear and greed."

Actually, there's a third one that very few people seem to mention: impatience (i.e., we always want our $$ sooner than later).

post #65 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

 

On the contrary, the valuation is the objective part of the price. All stocks are worth what they can output in profits then distribute on dividends. Currently the market average PE on valuation stocks is 15 because interest rate are so low. At 15 PE youre typical value stock will pay 3% to 5% yields.

Groan..... 

post #66 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by focher View Post

you would think that the vendors which make up 90% of the desktop market should have more responsibility to produce revolutionary design than the 10% market share holder.

 

So Apple now is expected to reinvent the smartphone, tablet, laptop, and desktop segments on an annual basis. Otherwise their stock will take a beating!

Yes, the PC market does have a very wide range of desktops to pick from which might explain a lot of the reason behind their 97% market share. I don't think that phones, tablets, and laptops should be radically changed every year since the goal for mobile devices should be to have them be very thin. That is not the main goal of desktops.

post #67 of 144
Originally Posted by pik80 View Post
No, I don't have any complaints about the laptop line because it has been revolutionized recently.

 

So has the desktop lineup. Argument completely over.


Many people are using the iPad and iPad Mini as a laptop replacements and that is a revolutionary design that is only about there years old. That's two revolutionary designs to the laptop line in three years.

 

*BZZT* Tablets aren't laptops. They're also not desktops. But they're the successor to both.


I am just not a delusional fan boy that heaps praise on anything with an Apple logo on it.

 

I don't remember anyone heaping praise on the Mac Pro recently. lol.gif


It was getting tons of likes and then it just disappeared just like that... *poof*.

 

Two "likes". One from YOU, the other from another user whose opinion is perpetually anti-Apple, but who, had he read your post, would have disagreed with its measure himself. If this is 'tons' to you, much less indicative of any actual support in the measure, I find that funny.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #68 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Having flat growth is not the same as being without profit. YoY when you adjust for the week difference Apple's profit growth is around 10%. For a company that makes more profit in a quarter than most companies make in revenue a year near 3x what Amazon has made in profit over its entire life as a company that's really quite remarkable. I have no idea how people expect a company as large as Apple to continue to do 20% growth YoY. That is not sustainable but they can still make billions more in profit per year which more than I can say for many of those other companies people believe in.

Also, looking at quarter-to-quarter between years says very little, except to investors who have horizons that rival that of gnats. It you look at annual rates of growth, Apple has been on a superb trajectory. Obviously that will slow (a process that has perhaps started) down over time, but it's still quite impressive, and (as many have pointed) even at those reduced levels, supports a much, much higher stock price.

 

Heck, look at Google's growth: it's CAGR in the past few years is lower than that of Apple's, yet, it's P/E is twice as high. AMZN? Let's not even go there....

post #69 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

It's going to take a lot more than one little positive story about an iMac, IMO. There have been 1,000 negative stories and BS in the past months, so we need a bunch more positive stories coming out.

 

I'd like to see Apple release a press release next week announcing the China Mobile deal. I'd like to see Apple announcing some brand new product within the next few months that not a single person here knows about. Something totally new and unexpected. I'd like to see Apple being more forceful and countering a lot of the BS that gets written by trashy media outlets. Basically, there are a lot of things that I'd like to see, but we'll see what happens.

I don't think they need a whole new product category like iPod, iPhone, or iPad.  A major redesigned iPhone might be good.  But what I really want to see is a very impressive iOS 7.  I think iOS hasn't changed much and badly needs a big refresh to blow away Android OS.  Rethink the notification center, rethink how to move and organize apps, more integration with Siri and mapping applications.  More hooks into the core functionality so apps can greatly enhance the power of the phone. Apple can make iOS devices much more flexible and capable without completely going to the free-for-all model of Android and Google Play.

post #70 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Tablets aren't laptops. They're also not desktops. But they're the successor to both.

You ask saying that tablets are going to REPLACE both desktops and laptops? Oh.... my..... word. And yes tablet have become laptops for many people. They even have set ups with physical keyboards that make them essentially the same thing. It is also has features like minimal ports like the Air and no optical drive. The Air and the iPad are very much in the same range and are getting closer all the time.

post #71 of 144

deleted


Edited by MacRulez - 5/16/13 at 12:31pm
post #72 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by majjo View Post

I actually ended up just increasing my INTC holdings for now. I'll revisit AAPL when it shows a bit more stability.

That's funny! I sold my INTC today to buy some more AAPL...

 

I am sure one of us will be right!1biggrin.gif

post #73 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Isn't this just panic selling right now? At what point does it become ridiculous?

It's only ridiculous to sell when no one else is doing it.
post #74 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

I believe the MacBook Air was introduced in 2008.

Yes, it was. What I said was that the Air replaced the white MacBook in 2011 which is true.

post #75 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Apple 
[" url="/t/155641/apples-market-cap-dips-below-exxon-as-stock-selloff-continues#post_2264784"]No, my last trade was last week, I bought in at 499.9999, and I sold right before the close on earnings day for around 514.

I haven't touched AAPL since earnings day, and I don't have any immediate plans. AAPL needs to prove itself to me, before I put my cash on the line.

So your trash talk about Apple has nothing to do with the facts, you just want to talk down the price so you can make a few bucks. Good for you. Now we know what you are, we're just haggling on the amount. There's a word for people like you.
Edited by Kr00 - 1/25/13 at 1:18pm
post #76 of 144
Originally Posted by pik80 View Post
You ask saying that tablets are going to REPLACE both desktops and laptops?

 

Of course. Why wouldn't they? They've already replaced laptops for some people. Now they just have to get bigger.


And yes tablet have become laptops for many people.

 

Replaced.


They even have set ups with physical keyboards that make them essentially the same thing.

 

That's not replacing, that's simulating. It helps to ease the transition, but they're not the same thing simply because they're being used in the same situations. Tablets are laptop successors, and they'll become desktop successors.

 

Would you like to know why it's being deleted? You're trolling. You've been given answers, multiple times, in other threads. You refuse to acknowledge them, and so now you're just spamming the same crap everywhere because you want only what you want to hear. Knock it off.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #77 of 144
T
Quote:
Originally Posted by majjo View Post

lol, I did it mainly for the upcoming dividend.

However, based on what I've read of haswell, I am confident that intel will be able to solve the ARM problem. Whether or not they execute it well will be another story.

I think their longer term problem is the declining PC market, and struggles with mobile devices.
post #78 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by pik80 View Post

You ask saying that tablets are going to REPLACE both desktops and laptops? Oh.... my..... word. And yes tablet have become laptops for many people. They even have set ups with physical keyboards that make them essentially the same thing. It is also has features like minimal ports like the Air and no optical drive. The Air and the iPad are very much in the same range and are getting closer all the time.

Funny, I didn't see the word "replace" in his response. Successor means to overtake the place of, meaning that tablet devices will one day outnumber desktop computing. Your love of old technology is cringeworthy. Optical drives? Honestly, only an irrelevant few still use physical media, that includes plug in devices. Drop box/cloud technology will surpass these within this decade. While you look backwards, the real world is moving forward. If your thinking was in place 100 years ago, we'd still be riding a horse/buggy. Sheesh. If they made a time machine, you'd complain that there wasn't enough cup holders, really.
post #79 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Would you like to know why it's being deleted? You're trolling. You've been given answers, multiple times, in other threads. You refuse to acknowledge them, and so now you're just spamming the same crap everywhere because you want only what you want to hear.

I have only heard one answer to this question and it was someone agreeing with me that the 2004 model is only an evolutionary change from the current model a decade later. One guy said it was revolutionary because it had an Intel processor! Bwahahahahaha!

post #80 of 144

I don't believe they should keep the optical drives, I never said that.
 

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