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British retailers found recommending Samsung smartphones over Apple's

post #1 of 72
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A mystery shopper survey carried out in the United Kingdom found that Samsung's Galaxy S III was the most recommended smartphone among eight of Britain's leading electronics retailers.

iPhone and Galaxy Note
Apple's iPhones are seeing fewer recommendations from British retailers than Samsung's offerings


The Telegraph reports that the survey, performed by Informa Telecoms and Media, looked at smartphone recommendations from sales attendants at John Lewis, Everything Everywhere, O2, 3, Maplins, PC World, Carphone Warehouse, and Phones 4 U. The researchers found that the Galaxy S III and Galaxy Note II were most often recommended, even though they've been on the market longer than Apple's new iPhone 5 and other handsets from Nokia and HTC.

The researchers asked attendants to recommend three smartphones or tablets from among their offerings. Only 3 and Phones 4 U recommended Apple smartphones, with both recommending the iPhone 5. Still, other manufacturers fared worse; Motorola reportedly saw very few recommendations, and Research In Motion's BlackBerry offerings were also snubbed.

In addition to attendant recommendations, the survey also scored manufacturers on whether smartphones were advertised in store windows or in-store. They found that Apple and Samsung products were just as likely to see window or in-store promotion, despite the discrepancy in recommendations.

In reporting their results, Informa noted that the higher rate of Samsung recommendations could possibly boil down -- in part -- to individual employee biases, including possible higher commissions on sales of Samsung phones. Samsung's greater range of smartphone options could also have an effect, as the iPhone is Apple's only smartphone offering.
post #2 of 72
And this surprises who?
post #3 of 72
And in México....
post #4 of 72
In retail, higher commission is the single most powerful motivator for recommending one product over another. In a commoditized market like the PC's, manufacturers used all kinds of tactics to win market share: including higher margin or increased incentive to move a certain number of units. Some retailer even took $200 off a PC for signing up for two years of AOL. Many PC manufacturers gained market share in the short term but eventually went out of business or got bought out.
post #5 of 72
It could simply be that it is more adventageous for carriers to use Android (iMessage anyone?) and so they purposely skew that way. When I take polls like this, and I often do, I ask the salesperson to show me the phone that they have chosen. They have alway chosen a phone and always with a reason.
post #6 of 72

Spifs and OEM kickbacks talk loudly.  Apple does not play that game much. Samsung heavily.

 

If MS still wants to play in this game, they should consider it.

post #7 of 72

What do the British know anyways....

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post #8 of 72
And so what if Samsung used cheater tactics? Samsung shareholders were the big winners and Apple shareholders were just bigger losers. If you have to cheat to win, you do it. Fair play will get you nowhere on Wall Street. Samsung is now a highly praised company for selling a gazillion smartphones while Apple is holding onto a P/E of 9.x, soon to be 8.x. No investor will touch the stock because it has almost no shareholder value owing to the iPhones rapidly diminishing market share to every Android smartphone. Apple has plenty of cash to toss around and if Apple had any aggressive tendencies at all it would have offered sales incentives and there wouldn't be this dead Apple stock story. Although I doubt even incentives would have helped because Apple can't produce enough smartphones anywhere's near the speed Samsung can.

Samsung is now comfortably positioned to destroy Apple's future credibility. Sadly enough, all this happened in just six month's time while Apple (Tim Cook) was caught napping.
post #9 of 72

Possible higher commissions? Definite higher commissions!

 

See:

http://www.asymco.com/2012/11/29/the-cost-of-selling-galaxies/

 

Things to note from those charts:

 

A. Samsung's marketing budget per year is over 10 times Apple's.

 

B. Samsung spends more on marketing than Apple, Coca-Cola, Dell, HP, and Microsoft... all put together.

 

C. What kind of marketing? Well, more than half of Samsung's marketing budget is paying commissions. They spend massively more than Apple on advertising, but even their advertising expenditure is dwarfed by their commission payouts. All to make salespeople push Samsung regardless of what's good for the customer.

 

 

 

 

So keep this in mind when people parrot the idea that Apple's success is all driven by empty marketing...

 

IIRC, Apple pays commissions to its phone sales staff but not its retail staff. Of course, people who visit an Apple store or call Apple are already interested in Apple products. You can't say that everyone walking into a carrier store is already interested in Samsung. Until a salesperson is bribed to tell them the iPhone's not good...

 

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

And so what if Samsung used cheater tactics? Samsung shareholders were the big winners and Apple shareholders were just bigger losers.
 
So what, you ask? That very much depends on whether you are interested in stock prices or in quality products. And, if you ARE interested only in stock prices, are you interested in the long term or in the easily-manipulated short term?
 
I want Apple to have a CEO who is interested in quality products and long-term stock performance. Not in playing the game of lies you say Tim was "napping" on. I say that because quality products matter to me, and I'd say the same if I were shareholder, because I'd be investing for the long term, not playing the silly, irrational quarter-to-quarter game.
 
And if you look at the numbers, you'll be surprised to see that Apple's market share is doing great, their profit share is doing better, and their buyer satisfaction numbers are simply untouchable.

Edited by nagromme - 1/27/13 at 7:46pm
post #10 of 72
Also true in Canada, where I was strongly discouraged to buy an iPhone at tree outlets.

First time I simply walked out at Bell (I believe they were out of iPhones and they thought that I wouldn't buy from then if I had to wait a couple days to get it at my door, but I have no proof of that).

Second store (Telus) they said the screen was small, I got frustrated and asked if they were told by their leadership to try and convince people away from the iPhone - and out of talking with the two clerks I understood that their company didn't really appreciate the way Apple did business with them (As in Apple taking care\supervising ALL marketing material, Apple handling customer support and after-sale which resulted in the carrier to "lose sight" of the customer). But the salespersons might just have been covering something else.

And lastly I went to a Futureshop thinking that no matter what they would say, I would simply answer "Look, will you sell me an iPhone or not?"... And I had to use it, but at least, at Futureshop, you know they have bonuses if they shift certain items, so I was expecting it... But from the carrier's boutiques, that felt odd.
post #11 of 72

Who is surprised by this?  In the USA you often have to fight your way out of a carrier store to keep your iPhone that you request.  Salespeople really push Android here.  You can't blame them - the monthly fees are the same, the subsidized price is the same, but the wholesale price that VZ pays is hundreds less for Android phones typically.  Some of that savings goes to the salesperson.

post #12 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

What do the British know anyways....

Not to add an "s" where one is not needed?

post #13 of 72

In the US you don't need a survey. Just walk into a busy iPhone carrier (AT&T, Verizon) and ask them what they recommend or listen to what they recommend to others.

post #14 of 72

Maybe that money the retailers got from sammy is paying off.  Next thing you will see is North Korea recommending Samsung knock offs to the People of NK.

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post #15 of 72
So painfully reminiscent of the early '90s, where in the few stores that sold Macs and PCs the salespeople would systematically steer Mac customers towards a PC because they were getting big commissions and incentives for selling PCs, and virtually nothing for selling Macs.
Apple's choice then to prioritize margins over market share backfired: PCs eventually gathered enough market share that the Mac became practically extinct and software was no longer developed for it.
I'm not saying that it's what's happening to Apple right now; but if they're not careful, it could very well happen soon. Watch out for "Android first" apps.
post #16 of 72
It's called lobbying folks. Pay the retailers to recommend your product over the competition.
post #17 of 72
Certainly don't seem to get that with Australian telcos selling online direct to customers. I assume they move heaps in the early months a new model comes out.
post #18 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by WisdomSeed View Post

It could simply be that it is more adventageous for carriers to use Android (iMessage anyone?) and so they purposely skew that way.

Of course. Consider that most usage surveys show that iDevices get used on the Internet far more than Android devices. If the customer buys an iPhone, the carrier will actually have to earn its money. If they buy an Android phone, they collect the fees, but the phone isn't tying up the network.
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post #19 of 72
Ah, so we can deduce that all Android fans are either phone salesmen or Samsung employees. Explains a lot.
post #20 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

It's called lobbying folks. Pay the retailers to recommend your product over the competition.

This should be made illegal, but instead they make unlocking while on contract illegal. Bonkers.

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post #21 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme
 

 

So what, you ask? That very much depends on whether you are interested in stock prices or in quality products. And, if you ARE interested only in stock prices, are you interested in the long term or in the easily-manipulated short term?
 
I want Apple to have a CEO who is interested in quality products and long-term stock performance. Not in playing the game of lies you say Tim was "napping" on. I say that because quality products matter to me, and I'd say the same if I were shareholder, because I'd be investing for the long term, not playing the silly, irrational quarter-to-quarter game.
 
And if you look at the numbers, you'll be surprised to see that Apple's market share is doing great, their profit share is doing better, and their buyer satisfaction numbers are simply untouchable.

 

People would be naive to think that quality products and short term stock performance have no serious relationships. People need to realize, quality products don't come out just because a few very smart people sit together and create it. Incentives plays a huge part. If you're working for AAPL and you see the stock tumbled in a matter of months, your work ethics could be affected, your concentration could be affected, in fact you might even look for a new job. The whole company's productivity is in fact a function of the stock price (yes even in the short-term). 

post #22 of 72

And yet, the iPhone 5 is still outselling the S3. Pretty incredible, seeing the disparity in the marketing of both phones, and how ahrd the S3 is being pushed by absolutely everyone. 

post #23 of 72

Originally Posted by macxpress View Post
What do the British know anyways....

 

Yea, take Sirs Jonathan Ive and Tim Berners-Lee for example...

post #24 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by winstein2010 View Post

In retail, higher commission is the single most powerful motivator for recommending one product over another. In a commoditized market like the PC's, manufacturers used all kinds of tactics to win market share: including higher margin or increased incentive to move a certain number of units. Some retailer even took $200 off a PC for signing up for two years of AOL. Many PC manufacturers gained market share in the short term but eventually went out of business or got bought out.

1990s references have little relevance today. They could have better retail margins as you mentioned. Maybe very little profit is there at the retail level on the iphone. We haven't seen what they pay wholesale.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven N. View Post

Spifs and OEM kickbacks talk loudly.  Apple does not play that game much. Samsung heavily.

 

If MS still wants to play in this game, they should consider it.

Your assumptions are stupid as they're assumptions. All it takes is greater profit at the retail level to make them push it. If it didn't meet the standards of the retail establishment, they wouldn't even carry the device. If you're buying through a carrier store, they're likely to push models within a class of products that aren't as heavily subsidized. In this case smartphones are the product class. If something is labeled as a smartphone in the US, you're locked into a data plan with the contract.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

And so what if Samsung used cheater tactics?

 

What even constitutes a cheater tactic? There are many potential reasons. What if they use the iphone to drive foot traffic but the actual sale delivers little profit for the retailer? Would you still expect them to push it once you're in the store? Not everything has to be a huge conspiracy. It could be any combination of things.

post #25 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Of course. Consider that most usage surveys show that iDevices get used on the Internet far more than Android devices. If the customer buys an iPhone, the carrier will actually have to earn its money. If they buy an Android phone, they collect the fees, but the phone isn't tying up the network.

iMessage is actually a money maker for UK telcos due to increased data usage and overcharges. UK smartphone tariffs generally come with thousands or unlimited SMS bundles.

This could that there are warehouses filled with Samsung devices which the carriers struggle to even give away. I know that on Thursday last week there were 50+ Samsung s3 handsets in stock at my local car phone warehouse vs 16 iPhone 5.
Edited by irnchriz - 1/27/13 at 11:38pm
post #26 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post

And this surprises who?

 

Judging from the strong anti-Apple sentiment in the UK, I'm not surprised whatsoever.

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post #27 of 72
This is a lie. We all know people bought Samsung because they love Android (and iOS is stale of course). Salesman has nothing to do with it.
post #28 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

And yet, the iPhone 5 is still outselling the S3. Pretty incredible, seeing the disparity in the marketing of both phones, and how ahrd the S3 is being pushed by absolutely everyone. 

Is the iPhone5 outselling the S3 in the UK? 


Edited by stike vomit - 1/28/13 at 1:18am
post #29 of 72
Great. Since the iPhone is so cheap that anyone can have one nowadays, if only the tech-savvy elite knows enough to buy one, it will remain an elite product!
/s

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Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

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post #30 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

What do the British know anyways....

 

What's the matter? Did the nasty British empire steal your great-great Grandfather's lunch? 1frown.gif

post #31 of 72
@macxpress
"What do the British know anyways...."

Well they know how to design 'all' of Apple's products (Jonathan Ive)...
as well as inventing the world wide web that you used to post that comment (Tim Berners-Lee)...
the electricity that powers your computer (Michael Faraday)...
and computers in general (Charles Babbage / Alan Turing).

;0)
post #32 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

 

Judging from the strong anti-Apple sentiment in the UK, I'm not surprised whatsoever.

What "strong anti-Apple sentiment" would that be exactly? The UK is one of Apple's biggest markets outside the US.  

post #33 of 72

So the big test is to see which of these stores pass the commission money onto their employees. I know that John Lewis's employees don't work on a commission basis. I'm not entirely sure about the rest - CPW definitely used to but I'm not sure if they still do.

 

I think it's more likely that the Samsung Galaxy III is what "phone geeks" like to use. I see it a lot of smartphone forums. If you're obsessed with smartphones (and you're being paid pretty poorlY) Android is attractive. It's a lot more customisable than the iPhone 5. 

post #34 of 72
Huh, that "survey" was made over eight (8) stores on London's Oxford Street: it has no scientific/statistical -neither newsworthy- value in anyway....

Moreover the press release is also saying:

"These results echo a mystery shopper survey which was conducted last summer across five sales outlets located in the Silicon Valley, California area. The results from that survey revealed that the best-represented brands, in terms of prominent displays, were Samsung and HTC. When it came to mobile phones recommended by the sales assistants in the various stores, Samsung was by far the best-represented vendor (...)"

So I can't wait to read the usual highly pondered and factual people speaking about the "anti-Apple sentiment" in California...

http://blogs.informatandm.com/8121/press-release-uk-retailers-recommend-samsung-products-ahead-of-apple/
post #35 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

In the US you don't need a survey. Just walk into a busy iPhone carrier (AT&T, Verizon) and ask them what they recommend or listen to what they recommend to others.

 

 

Um, isn't that an example of a "survey"?

post #36 of 72
this is true in the US as well.
post #37 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordJohnWhorfin View Post

So painfully reminiscent of the early '90s, where in the few stores that sold Macs and PCs the salespeople would systematically steer Mac customers towards a PC because they were getting big commissions and incentives for selling PCs, and virtually nothing for selling Macs.
Apple's choice then to prioritize margins over market share backfired: PCs eventually gathered enough market share that the Mac became practically extinct and software was no longer developed for it.
I'm not saying that it's what's happening to Apple right now; but if they're not careful, it could very well happen soon. Watch out for "Android first" apps.

 

Sorry, but your history of personal computing is fiction, wildly inventive fiction.

post #38 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

What do the British know anyways....

Grow up.

 

It's obviously not a reflection on the quality of the iPhone, it'll be 1 of 2 reasons.

 

The bosses of the shops know that the iPhone sells itself so they tell their sales staff to recommend other phones because they have to sell a particular number of each type for them to get a bonus. Secondly there is probably more commission selling a Samsung. They are just low wage staff trying to make more money. Even I'd recommend an S3 if there was more money coming to me.

 

If the customer is happy (most women don't have a clue about phones but they do have a handbag for silly sized phones) then everything is ok, if they take the phone away and aren't happy then they bring it back and swap it for an iPhone.

post #39 of 72

I recently went into an O2 shop. The salesman I spoke to was dismissive of Apple. He said he had NEVER seen an Apple sales rep come into the shop. They had a brochure listing all the phones they were selling, but not a single mention of the iPhone. When I asked why he said that Apple wouldn't allow it. Strange!? 

And, he said the best phone they sold was the Samsung! He said he was a convert from the iPhone. He must say the same pitch to dozens each day. 

post #40 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilution View Post

Grow up.

It's obviously not a reflection on the quality of the iPhone, it'll be 1 of 2 reasons.

The bosses of the shops know that the iPhone sells itself so they tell their sales staff to recommend other phones because they have to sell a particular number of each type for them to get a bonus. Secondly there is probably more commission selling a Samsung. They are just low wage staff trying to make more money. Even I'd recommend an S3 if there was more money coming to me.

If the customer is happy (most women don't have a clue about phones but they do have a handbag for silly sized phones) then everything is ok, if they take the phone away and aren't happy then they bring it back and swap it for an iPhone.

Exactly, there will always be those that can't be swayed to buy anything other than a iPhone. If there's 5 iPhones in stock and 30 SGS llls in stock guess which device will getppushed onto a uneducated first time smartphone buyer.
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