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British retailers found recommending Samsung smartphones over Apple's - Page 2

post #41 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by pembroke View Post

I recently went into an O2 shop. The salesman I spoke to was dismissive of Apple. He said he had NEVER seen an Apple sales rep come into the shop. They had a brochure listing all the phones they were selling, but not a single mention of the iPhone. When I asked why he said that Apple wouldn't allow it. Strange!? 

And, he said the best phone they sold was the Samsung! He said he was a convert from the iPhone. He must say the same pitch to dozens each day. 

Or maybe he actually is telling the truth?  As was said before, not everything is a conspiracy.  And Apple is also known to strongly control the marketing of their device, as well as pay some of the lowest commissions.  

 

4 of my wife's family (uncle, cousins) recently went from the iPhone 4 to the Galaxy S3 (and they all prefer the S3), and I went from an iPhone 3G to an HTC (which I also prefer).  

post #42 of 72
Yeah, this is a problem. It's like this in Canada as other posters have said. I have a friend who works at Future Shop (Best Buy) and he says all the wireless people push ANYTHING but Apple because of the higher commission.
post #43 of 72
And we have what proof, exactly, that any of these retailers pay commission at all, let alone a higher commission for Samsung over Apple phones? Oh yeah... none. Please, don't let that stop you all though from speaking like you know anything on the matter.

Having worked in the telecom and retail industry, I know all carriers in my state pay nothing for handset sales. What they incentivize, however, are accessory sales. Chargers, cases, screen protectors etc. Brand of the phone means nothing, as long as they can bundle it with a car plug and a shiny new case. Some, but not all, carriers also reward selling features, like higher data plans etc. Again, brand doesn't matter, as most smartphone features are available on all makes now thanks the recent plan restructuring.

That some people prefer other brands than Apple, and recommend them to their customers, should not come as a surprise. Insulting them, their ethics, and their country, are all absolutely uncalled for.
post #44 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash907 View Post

And we have what proof, exactly, that any of these retailers pay commission at all, let alone a higher commission for Samsung over Apple phones? Oh yeah... none. Please, don't let that stop you all though from speaking like you know anything on the matter.

Whether they PAY commissions is irrelevant. If they RECEIVE commissions from Samsung or Google or anyone else, they're going to pressure their employees to sell that product.
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post #45 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Whether they PAY commissions is irrelevant. If they RECEIVE commissions from Samsung or Google or anyone else, they're going to pressure their employees to sell that product.

Why would Google pay commissions on Android phone sales?1confused.gif 

 

That makes no sense to me at all, and there's zero evidence they've ever done so anymore than Apple has.

 

I asked several days ago in another thread if anyone had any proof that commissions on Android or Windows phones were any higher than those paid for Apple, or even if commissions are typically paid to carrier salespeople at all on phone sales. Jrogosta, perhaps you have something that shows there's merit to the claim, or even your implication that Google might be commissions to carriers to push Android phones.  In all the time I've been here I've not seen anyone provide that, which increasingly points to it simply being an unsupported talking point.


Edited by Gatorguy - 1/28/13 at 6:46am
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post #46 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Of course. Consider that most usage surveys show that iDevices get used on the Internet far more than Android devices. If the customer buys an iPhone, the carrier will actually have to earn its money. If they buy an Android phone, they collect the fees, but the phone isn't tying up the network.

 

When the surveys include ALL iOS devices (iPads and iPod touch), and access over WiFi, that's true.

 

When the surveys ONLY include phones or celluar data, it turns out that the internet usage is basically the same.   The Chitika ad reports specifically state this about phones (but of course fansites never repeat it).   Akamai charts show the same thing:

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pembroke View Post

I recently went into an O2 shop. The salesman I spoke to was dismissive of Apple. He said he had NEVER seen an Apple sales rep come into the shop. They had a brochure listing all the phones they were selling, but not a single mention of the iPhone. When I asked why he said that Apple wouldn't allow it. Strange!? 

 

Not strange.  Many stores have to get Apple preapproval for advertising and brochures.  Apple likes to control how they're presented. 

 

Heck, Apple even likes controlling the ads that other companies present, which is why advertisers have pulled out of Apple's iAds program.

post #47 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

What do the British know anyways....


They know not to put an unnecessary "s" on the end of "anyway".

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post #48 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Why would Google pay commissions on Android phone sales?1confused.gif 

 

That makes no sense to me at all, and there's zero evidence they've ever done so anymore than Apple has.

 

I asked several days ago in another thread if anyone had any proof that commissions on Android or Windows phones were any higher than those paid for Apple, or even if commissions are typically paid to carrier salespeople at all on phone sales. Jrogosta, perhaps you have something that shows there's merit to the claim, or even your implication that Google might be commissions to carriers to push Android phones.  In all the time I've been here I've not seen anyone provide that, which increasingly points to it simply being an unsupported talking point.

 

Regardless of whether sales staff are receiving spiffs or higher commissions for selling Android phones, it's very clear that carriers are heavily pushing Android phones on customers because it benefits them. They pay less for the phones themselves, they get more control over the user experience (including the ability to install key loggers), and all of that adds up to more money for the carriers. So, it doesn't really matter whether sales staff are pushing Android down people's throats because they benefit by supplementing their pay (which is very likely the case) or simply by being allowed to keep their jobs. It's clear, from this and other surveys among other evidence, that this is happening, and it's not necessary to identify the precise ultimate cause to establish that it is, and that it's the primary reason for what market success Android has had. Pretend all you want, but average users really don't love Android, and recent numbers confirm that they switch to iPhone in significant numbers when they are free to do so, and iPhone users don't switch in significant numbers.

 

Android and Android phones represent the typical crappy experience that carriers have traditionally provided, and consumers don't like it.

 

On the other hand, there's no reason we should entirely reject the notion that Google is itself incentivizing carriers to push Android phones through financial or other means. That we don't have a smoking gun doesn't mean they aren't. And, in fact we do. Google cut that deal with Verizon to undermine net neutrality, after paying lip service to how important it was for years, which was very likely a deal that involved Verizon agreeing to favor Android, even when they got the iPhone. So, it's not like we don't know that Google is a two-faced liar that will whore out any expressed principle for financial gain.

post #49 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


 

On the other hand, there's no reason we should entirely reject the notion that Google is itself incentivizing carriers to push Android phones through financial or other means. That we don't have a smoking gun doesn't mean they aren't. And, in fact we do. Google cut that deal with Verizon to undermine net neutrality, after paying lip service to how important it was for years, which was very likely a deal that involved Verizon agreeing to favor Android, even when they got the iPhone. So, it's not like we don't know that Google is a two-faced liar that will whore out any expressed principle for financial gain.

 

What would be the advantage there? The retailers including carrier stores are likely to sell whatever generates the highest profit. Why do you think there must be some conspiracy behind this when something as simple as better retail margins would be enough to guide their behavior once you're in the store.

post #50 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

 

they get more control over the user experience (including the ability to install key loggers)

Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

 

sales staff are pushing Android down people's throats because they benefit by supplementing their pay (which is very likely the case)

Quote:

Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

 

but average users really don't love Android

Quote:

Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

 

recent numbers confirm that they switch to iPhone in significant numbers when they are free to do so, and iPhone users don't switch in significant numbers.

 
Quote:

Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

 

Android and Android phones represent the typical crappy experience that carriers have traditionally provided, and consumers don't like it

 

 Citations needed on all of those points please.

 

Seriously, all these companies are bothered about is the bottom line, nothing else.  There doesn't have to be anything evil or sneaky about it, its called business.  Do you think a car dealership, or a jewellers, or a travel agent is any different?  As with any non-trivial purchase, depending on the advice of the seller to make your decision is a fool's game.

post #51 of 72

The faces that the cell phone guys make when I pull out an iPhone hilarious.  Such disappointment.  

 

They even lied to my family about getting prepay service for an old iPhone.  I had to go in there and ask for pre-pay and not bring up the iPhone until the very end.

post #52 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefoid View Post

 Citations needed on all of those points please.

 

No, they really aren't. Unless you just discovered the Internet or don't usually read any tech coverage, none of this would come as a shock to you.

post #53 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefoid View Post

 
 
 

 Citations needed on all of those points please.

 

Seriously, all these companies are bothered about is the bottom line, nothing else.  There doesn't have to be anything evil or sneaky about it, its called business.  Do you think a car dealership, or a jewellers, or a travel agent is any different?  As with any non-trivial purchase, depending on the advice of the seller to make your decision is a fool's game.

To be fair I have seen at least one article in support for a single one of those claims, the one about a significant percentage of Android users trying out an iPhone when their contract ran out.  I don't recall the time period for the study so I don't know for sure how current it was, nor even the scope of it. I imagine the OP can clarify that, as well as offer the other citations you requested. 

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post #54 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

 

No, they really aren't. Unless you just discovered the Internet or don't usually read any tech coverage, none of this would come as a shock to you.

Oh yeah, sorry, we play by the AI rules here don't we.  Anything you or TS say requires no data to back it up, the rest of us have to provide evidence in triplicate signed in blood.  Silly me.

 

I'd like to see the evidence that says carriers install key loggers, average users don't love Android (which is a bit weird - who loves an OS?) and that iOS users don't migrate to Android in significant numbers (which is actually exactly what I am seeing with users I know).  I won't hold my breath though.

 

I just don't understand why you see something evil and underhand in what is a normal business practice.

post #55 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilution View Post

Grow up.

 

It's obviously not a reflection on the quality of the iPhone, it'll be 1 of 2 reasons.

 

The bosses of the shops know that the iPhone sells itself so they tell their sales staff to recommend other phones because they have to sell a particular number of each type for them to get a bonus. Secondly there is probably more commission selling a Samsung. They are just low wage staff trying to make more money. Even I'd recommend an S3 if there was more money coming to me.

 

If the customer is happy (most women don't have a clue about phones but they do have a handbag for silly sized phones) then everything is ok, if they take the phone away and aren't happy then they bring it back and swap it for an iPhone.

Or a third reason - That the S3 is simply a more capable / better value phone?

post #56 of 72
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
And this surprises who?

 

The British retailers who didn't think they'd get caught?


Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post
It's called lobbying folks. Pay the retailers to recommend your product over the competition.

 

On the level, is it legal? 


Originally Posted by Evilution View Post

Even I'd recommend an S3 if there was more money coming to me.

 

So you'd sell your principles for a tiny bonus check?

 

Oh, and citations needed? 

 

Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post
they get more control over the user experience (including the ability to install key loggers)

 

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/android-bloatware-results-in-serious-security-flaws/16853

http://www.techhive.com/article/2000055/ban-bloatware-we-want-our-smartphones-back.html

 

Carrier IQ, a company that provides diagnostic analysis of smartphones to carriers, came under fire last year after a security researcher discovered that the software was recording keystrokes, browsing history, and other user data.
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post
sales staff are pushing Android down people's throats because they benefit by supplementing their pay (which is very likely the case)

 

Doesn't need a citation, as it's a supposition.

 

Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

but average users really don't love Android

 

This was last year.

 

Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

recent numbers confirm that they switch to iPhone in significant numbers when they are free to do so, and iPhone users don't switch in significant numbers.

 

2011. 2012.

 

Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Android and Android phones represent the typical crappy experience that carriers have traditionally provided, and consumers don't like it

 

Bloatware: 2010. 2011. 2012.

Blocked updates: 2012.

 

Citations provided. It's not that we "don't need proof" of what we say, it's that we just expect you to be able to find it in the same way we did. It's information; it's all out there. Being able to find it quickly and accurately is a life skill. If we're ever thrown back into pre-Industrial times, I'd be able to survive because I know how a paper card freaking catalog works. lol.gif

 

The ones that just make up absolute crap? Those you can tell from a mile away.


Originally Posted by stike vomit View Post
Or a third reason - That the S3 is simply a more capable / better value phone?

 

No, that's not the case in the slightest. 

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post #57 of 72
It is all about the money and incentives paid to move the product. It should be no surprise. Does anyone believe that Peyton Manning and Tiger Woods drive Buicks? No but they are paid to recommend them. Same story here but on a much smaller incentive scale.
post #58 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

2011. 2012.

TS, the second link (2012) has nothing to do with OS retention rates and the first one (2011) says "It's only a tiny sample (216 people), so large conclusions must not be drawn."

 

I think there's probably one out there that proves your point but neither of those does. 

 

EDIT: Geesh TS, I know you must have better citations that these. Add that  the one you've given to prove Android users don't like their OS says nothing of the sort either. You normally have pretty good links to back up your claims. Several of these don't really cut it. . .

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post #59 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by stike vomit View Post

Or a third reason - That the S3 is simply a more capable / better value phone?

While that is a valid point, the overall sales numbers for each model show differently. Especially given the longer length of time the G3 has been in the market and the BOGO offers and gift cards associated with the G3. I think it comes down to whatever promotion retailers are running and whatever incentives the manufacturer is giving to the retailer to sell the phones.
post #60 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSteelers View Post

It is all about the money and incentives paid to move the product. It should be no surprise. Does anyone believe that Peyton Manning and Tiger Woods drive Buicks? No but they are paid to recommend them. Same story here but on a much smaller incentive scale.

I don't know about Peyton and Tiger but Derek Jeter does drive a Ford Edge, well at least to Yankee Stadium.
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post #61 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefoid View Post

Oh yeah, sorry, we play by the AI rules here don't we.  Anything you or TS say requires no data to back it up, the rest of us have to provide evidence in triplicate signed in blood.  Silly me.

 

I'd like to see the evidence that says carriers install key loggers, average users don't love Android (which is a bit weird - who loves an OS?) and that iOS users don't migrate to Android in significant numbers (which is actually exactly what I am seeing with users I know).  I won't hold my breath though.

 

I just don't understand why you see something evil and underhand in what is a normal business practice.

 

If you're being sincere here, you really don't have a clue what's going on in the world, so you should educate yourself before commenting, or asking the rest of us to waste our time to satisfy your ignorance.

post #62 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

The British retailers who didn't think they'd get caught?

 

'Get caught' doing what exactly? Recommending non-Apple phones is not a crime.

post #63 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Carrier IQ, a company that provides diagnostic analysis of smartphones to carriers, came under fire last year after a security researcher discovered that the software was recording keystrokes, browsing history, and other user data.

Carrier IQ was also installed on iPhones.

post #64 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by drobforever View Post

...If you're working for AAPL and you see the stock tumbled in a matter of months, your work ethics could be affected, your concentration could be affected, in fact you might even look for a new job. The whole company's productivity is in fact a function of the stock price (yes even in the short-term). 

 

:D

 

Your statement is a massive exaggeration and oversimplification. Stock does indeed have some effect on a great many things, even in the short term. Employees included. Some effect. The long term matters more.

 

The whole company's productivity? Your concentration might be affected? I think you're trying too hard to see what you want to find.

 

And people INSIDE Apple know far better than short-term speculators what's really going on. They're in the BEST position to know this kind of incident means little for the company's future. (Not nothing... but very little.)

 

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by stike vomit View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Carrier IQ, a company that provides diagnostic analysis of smartphones to carriers, came under fire last year after a security researcher discovered that the software was recording keystrokes, browsing history, and other user data.

Carrier IQ was also installed on iPhones.

 

Yes, but in name only: NOT to record user data.

 

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2011/12/apple-carrier-iq-still-on-iphone-4-but-we-dont-read-your-e-mail-and-texts/

 

"It was just for diagnostic data that was sent to Apple, and customers had to actively opt in to that to even provide us that level of information," Apple tells us. "If they opted in, that data was sent anonymously, and in encrypted fashion. We did not record keystrokes, messages or any personal information for the diagnostic data, and we have no plans to in the future."

post #65 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Carrier IQ, a company that provides diagnostic analysis of smartphones to carriers, came under fire last year after a security researcher discovered that the software was recording keystrokes, browsing history, and other user data.

 

Not only was Carrier IQ also installed on iPhones (because it helps analyze potential signal problems, to improve service), but the whole logging thing was overblown due to typical "researcher" ignorance.

 

None of that data was sent anywhere.  As that quote carefully put it, yes, the info was "recorded".... but only locally in the global developer debug log that everything logs to.

 

As any developer on the planet knows, all that this meant was that some poor sucker forgot to turn off the debug flag in the software before deploying it.  A goof, yes.  Spying?  NO.

 

It's not much different than the developer mistake that happened at Apple, when someone forgot to write code to limit the location lookahead cache, and all that hullabaloo went on about how Apple was "storing our location movements".

 

Now, back to our regularly scheduled program...

post #66 of 72
Isn't this true for all retailers in the entire world? Other than at an Apple Store, I've never heard an iPhone recommended after the 4 came out. The 4 was the last one I ever heard reccoemended. Ever. 3 years ago.

 

 


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post #67 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

What do the British know anyways....

The BBC Micro.
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post #68 of 72

That's a good thing Michael Faraday invented electricity. Where would we all be without that?

post #69 of 72
Originally Posted by DogCowabunga View Post
That's a good thing Michael Faraday invented electricity. Where would we all be without that?

 

In cages.

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post #70 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by DogCowabunga View Post

That's a good thing Michael Faraday invented electricity. Where would we all be without that?

Wasn't he in LOST?
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post #71 of 72

This is definitely true in Australia, where Vodafone, Optus and Telstra heavily promote Samsung devices EVERYWHERE. And yet the iphone5 was still one of the most popular devices :D

 

When I think of Samsung I only think of shame, fanboys, bullies and copycats. 

post #72 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by stike vomit View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

The British retailers who didn't think they'd get caught?

 

'Get caught' doing what exactly? Recommending non-Apple phones is not a crime.

it's a crime against consumers. 

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