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Microsoft's Surface Pro to ship with as little as 36% of advertised storage available to users

post #1 of 150
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Microsoft has promised its Surface RT follow-up, the Surface Pro, to be a full-featured Windows 8 tablet complete with a host of built-in apps, but the operating system and software will take up as much as 64 percent of the device's onboard storage depending on the model.

Surface Pro width=


A Microsoft spokesman told The Verge on Tuesday that when the Surface Pro ships on Feb. 9, a large portion of the unit's flash storage will be allocated to Windows 8, pre-installed apps and a recovery partition, leaving users a meager 36 to 65 percent of space to work with.

The base 64GB Surface Pro model will have 41GB of installed assets, leaving users only 23GB of disk space, while the more expensive 128GB version will have 83GB left after a 45GB partition is applied. For its part, Microsoft does warn users of the issue on the Surface webpage, saying that, "System software uses significant storage space. Available storage is subject to change based on system software updates and apps usage."

According to Microsoft, users can create a backup bootable USB and delete the recovery partition to free up space. In addition, the device boasts USB 3.0 ports and a microSDXC slot for expanding storage with removable media.

When the ARM-based Surface RT models were introduced last October, the stripped down operating system gobbled up half of the devices' addressable storage, sparking concerns over how much space would be required for a full-fledged Windows 8 instal. In comparison, Apple's iOS leaves over 85 percent of advertised storage available out of the box, depending on the device and OS version.

Microsoft's statement comes on the same day that Apple announced a new top-of-the-line 128GB iPad with Retina display that is scheduled to hit store shelves on Feb. 5, four days before the Surface Pro.
post #2 of 150
How does this compare against a MacBook Air loaded with iWork?
post #3 of 150

Welcome to Microsoft Blue Screen of Death (BSoD) :

 

 

 

 

 

Windows 8 version, of course (Microsoft reinvents, the BSoD, yes ...). How creative !  :

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by umrk_lab - 1/29/13 at 2:54pm
post #4 of 150
If Apple pulled a stunt like this, Apple would get skewered by the public.

Yet for some strange reason, the iHaters and trolls are nowhere to be found on this subject. Hmm...
post #5 of 150

That's funny, only 23 GB available when you buy a 64 GB surface pro.lol.gif

 

Just how big and wasteful is Windows 8? And what kind of extra apps does it come with that requires so many extra GB's of space? Does it come with a 30 GB, pre-installed porn collection?lol.gif

post #6 of 150

Mountain Lion requires 8GB and iWork weighs about 822MB once install. If we round it up to 9GB on the smallest 64GB MacBook Air it would occupy about 14% of the total storage.

post #7 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

How does this compare against a MacBook Air loaded with iWork?

OS X and iWork would take up less than 15 GB. Recovery partition is another 3 or 4, IIRC.
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post #8 of 150

I assume Microsoft stock will go up on this news. 

post #9 of 150

The recovery partition is actually about 650MB.

post #10 of 150
It takes up a lot of space cos its the full x64 install. This is the "compromise" to get full apps compatibility over RT. Pathetic
post #11 of 150
Really? We're still intermixing BASE-10 and BASE-2 measurements? Are we doing this so the MS Surface looks worse or are we really not understanding that vendors state the capacity as 1000 for Kilo, not 1024?


59.60 GiB for the 64GB model and 119.2 GiB for the 128GB model. Win8 is still a hefty beast, just not as bad it's made out to be here.
Edited by SolipsismX - 1/29/13 at 6:40pm

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post #12 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

OS X and iWork would take up less than 15 GB. Recovery partition is another 3 or 4, IIRC.

That's a pretty remarkable difference. I wonder what accounts for the extra consumed space of Windows? I can't image that extra drivers take up all that much room.
post #13 of 150

If I was ignorant (like the majority of surface buyers, 3 people) i would get really pissed off about this.

 

(Can we install ubuntu on surface?)

post #14 of 150
Wait til the Windows updates start coming... whatever space you start with will probably decrease to almost nothing before too long!
post #15 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Really? We're still intermixing BASE-10 and BASE-2 measurements? Are we doing this so the MS Surface looks worse or are we really understanding that vendors state the capacity as 1000 for Kilo, not 1024?

The average consumer who buys this won't care. Irregardless of how nice the Surface Pro device is, this is ludicrous.  Marco has the best response regarding this on his blog;

 

www.marco.org

 

"Computers, tablets, and smartphones have always had less usable space than their advertised storage capacities because of preinstalled software.

 

If your computer’s “1 TB” hard drive has 50 GB of preinstalled software and unusable space, you still have 95% of its space for user storage, which is hard to complain about. But advertising a “64 GB” Surface Pro that only has 35% of its space available to the user is a very different story.

 

This is deceptive enough advertising that the FTC should consider taking action. As tablets become more computer-like and mobile OSes get larger, this is only going to get worse."

post #16 of 150
Well of course! After all, we wouldn't want consumers to be confused or anything...
post #17 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shameer Mulji View Post

Marco has the best response regarding this on his blog;

www.marco.org
Quote:
Computers, tablets, and smartphones have always had less usable space than their advertised storage capacities because of preinstalled software.

If your computer’s “1 TB” hard drive has 50 GB of preinstalled software and unusable space, you still have 95% of its space for user storage, which is hard to complain about. But advertising a “64 GB” Surface Pro that only has 35% of its space available to the user is a very different story.

This is deceptive enough advertising that the FTC should consider taking action. As tablets become more computer-like and mobile OSes get larger, this is only going to get worse.

I disagree with this of the lawsuit. If you think it's fine for a company to install an OS and apps on a machine but then advertise the capacity as given by the vendor supplying the HW so long as it's 95% but not when it's 38% (that's the correct value) then you have hypocritical system. If you want to say that anything less than x% of the original total capacity needs to be advertised in a different way then you are talking about making a law. Do you really think that's going to happen?

As for calling it deceptive you have to prove that MS is trying to deceive. Do you think following the status quo is somehow proof of their culpably for what has been happening since the dawn of computer? I don't.


PS: Why do some posters use crazy HTML formatting in their posts? It's a huge PITA to clean up.

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post #18 of 150
There's prolly going to be bloatware. I agree that this sucks....

However......this device will replace my iPad third gen.

With the ability to truly multi-task, to not just mirror but dedicate external monitors to different things, run any full blown windows software, expand storage any number of ways (USB flash or HD, SD), easy connection of peripherals, parrot with Apple TV, run mobile apps with an Android emulator, play .iso files, use external burner, Microsoft Office.....the list just goes on and on.

I'll keep my iPhone 5, Apple TV and MacBook air.....but this will become my primary carry rig with a 256 flash drive keychain.

I am still loyal to Mac, but any who says this thing doesn't beat the crap out of an iPad simply have their eyes closed.
post #19 of 150
Originally Posted by umrk_lab View Post

 

Interestingly enough, just last night I had my graphics card crash in Windows 8.

 

Yep, you heard me. JUST the graphics card. My display went blank, I heard my GPU's fan spin up to jet engine intake speeds, and I thought Windows had just completely crashed my computer all the way down to a shutdown, but the fan slowed down and my display came back on. 

 

I worry that this worthless software is going to cause damage to my hardware.


Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post
Really? We're still intermixing BASE-10 and BASE-2 measurements? Are we doing this so the MS Surface looks worse or are we really understanding that vendors state the capacity as 1000 for Kilo, not 1024?

 

It's partially Microsoft's responsibility, since they've yet to make an OS that doesn't lie to you about capacity. 


Originally Posted by handquake View Post
With the ability to truly multi-task…


There goes your argument. 


…run mobile apps with an Android emulator, play .iso files, use external burner, Microsoft Office…..the list just goes on and on.

 

Well, when an item on that list is something someone would want to do, you let us know.


…any who says this thing doesn't beat the crap out of an iPad simply have their eyes closed.

 

Can't wait for you to buy a 4th gen iPad in March to replace it.

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post #20 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

It's partially Microsoft's responsibility, since they've yet to make an OS that doesn't lie to you about capacity.

In what way? I've never known any OS to incorrectly state how much space it's using and how much is remaining. If anyone has been dubious it's been the drive vendors. The PC makers then carried it over but now we're suppose to ignore all of it and just blame MS doing the same for their first PC despite this not being an issue for 3 decades?

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post #21 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by handquake View Post


With the ability to truly multi-task, to not just mirror but dedicate external monitors to different things, run any full blown windows software, expand storage any number of ways (USB flash or HD, SD), easy connection of peripherals, parrot with Apple TV, run mobile apps with an Android emulator, play .iso files, use external burner, Microsoft Office.....the list just goes on and on.

Sounds great. Where can I get one like the one you seem to already have? /s

Laughable.
post #22 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by handquake View Post

I am still loyal to Mac, but any who says this thing doesn't beat the crap out of an iPad simply have their eyes closed.

My eyes are open and it seems to me a more appropriate comparison is to a MacBook Air not an iPad. How do you view that comparison?

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post #23 of 150
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post
In what way? I've never known any OS to incorrectly state how much space it's using and how much is remaining. If anyone has been dubious it's been the drive vendors.

 

In that they report gibibytes as gigabytes. There's no "GiB" anywhere; it's "GB".

 

The drive vendors have reported their capacities correctly forever. I used to think that, too; turns out it's the OS' that are wrong.

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post #24 of 150

This is just plain silly. They could have curbed it by adjusting the advertised storage. Most consumers realize that the space available for their files is less than the advertised capacity, but no one would expect that much bloat. I'm curious what makes the installation so large.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shameer Mulji View Post

 Irregardless of how

irked.gif

post #25 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by GadgetCanada View Post

Windows 8 doesn't sound like bloatware at all

There are few things you can uninstall from a standard Win 8 built but that's not going to make a dent in what is being called bloatware here. I doubt there is any of the standard pre-installed bloatware that PC OEMs use to supplement their razor thin margins. MS doesn't' allow that on the OEM PCs they sell in their stores and I doubt there is any on the Surface products.

What we're seeing here is less of an eating disorder and more like a pituitary gland issue. Win8 is huge. Bottom line. Even the Surface RT with a considerable amount stripped from it is a giant. Frankly I think they messed up when they didn't redesign Win Phone 8 for their Surface RT product but that's there decision and I'm sure they had good reasons for it.

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post #26 of 150
Apparently I am the only person in the world who does these things, Admin.

But I do in fact do a lot of them pretty regularly on my Air because I can't on my iPad. Now I'll be able to.

Admins here sneer at positives when they can't find a hole in a discussion. How.....adversarial.
post #27 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

In that they report gibibytes as gigabytes. There's no "GiB" anywhere; it's "GB".

The drive vendors have reported their capacities correctly forever. I used to think that, too; turns out it's the OS' that are wrong.

GB and GiB are much more clear as they can't as easily be confused but BASE-2 GiB is an IEC standard and GB is a JEDEC standard. Drive makers use the SI standard for BASE-10. if you want to blame MS then you also have to blame Apple and everyone else. Even with the change in Lion to use BASE-10 for Finder they still use BASE-2 in Disk Utility and lower areas of the system. You can open About This Mac to see your RAM presented as the JEDEC standard.

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post #28 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by diplication View Post

My eyes are open and it seems to me a more appropriate comparison is to a MacBook Air not an iPad. How do you view that comparison?

Seems more fair.....which to me still seems like a prollem. I am going to own a slate of some sort. I'm just waiting for someone to point out the advantage of an iPad over this, ultimately.
post #29 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Sounds great. Where can I get one like the one you seem to already have? /s

Laughable.

Don't have one, yet.

Did You find a mistake in any of the capabilities I listed vs. the iPad?
post #30 of 150
And for the record.....I didn't bring up the iPad vs. this. Apple did in it's 128 gig iPad press release.
post #31 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


There are few things you can uninstall from a standard Win 8 built but that's not going to make a dent in what is being called bloatware here. I doubt there is any of the standard pre-installed bloatware that PC OEMs use to supplement their razor thin margins. MS doesn't' allow that on the OEM PCs they sell in their stores and I doubt there is any on the Surface products.

What we're seeing here is less of an eating disorder and more like a pituitary gland issue. Win8 is huge. Bottom line. Even the Surface RT with a considerable amount stripped from it is a giant. Frankly I think they messed up when they didn't redesign Win Phone 8 for their Surface RT product but that's there decision and I'm sure they had good reasons for it.

Yes they did have a good reason.  It's called internal politics.

post #32 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by handquake View Post

Seems more fair.....which to me still seems like a prollem. I am going to own a slate of some sort. I'm just waiting for someone to point out the advantage of an iPad over this, ultimately.
  • Less expensive
  • More usable space
  • Apps designed for the iPad's performance and display size, unlike the Surface.
  • Cellular options
  • Lighter and thinner
  • Much longer battery life

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post #33 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by umrk_lab View Post

Welcome to Microsoft Blue Screen of Death (BSoD) :







Windows 8 version, of course (Microsoft reinvents, the BSoD, yes ...). How creative !  :







As long as they can avoid Kernel Panic... it is never good to panic, even when disaster strikes.
post #34 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

If Apple pulled a stunt like this, Apple would get skewered by the public.

Yet for some strange reason, the iHaters and trolls are nowhere to be found on this subject. Hmm...

They were just not as swift to react as mHaters and aHaters and trolls...
post #35 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

If Apple pulled a stunt like this, Apple would get skewered by the public.

Yet for some strange reason, the iHaters and trolls are nowhere to be found on this subject. Hmm...

They do. Every Apple product you've bought with a HDD, SSD, or on-board NAND has always listed the capacity of the HW, not of the remaining space afar the OS was installed. The only difference is that Mac OS X is much smaller in size.

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post #36 of 150

Does it come with free virus protection popup advertisements? 

post #37 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

  • Less expensive
  • More usable space
  • Apps designed for the iPad's performance and display size, unlike the Surface.
  • Cellular options
  • Lighter and thinner
  • Much longer battery life

True....let's go through them one by one.

Less expensive....it is

More usable space......it's expandable.....really no limit and at only 25 a pop for 32 gig.

Apps.....it's running full Windows. Love or hate MS, everything that works on a PC for the last 10 years will work....and with an i5 processor and 4000 graphics, I think it is prolly quite a bit more powerful than an iPad for just a couple hundred more.

Cellular options......handy...but my iPhone is a hotspot.

Lighter and thinner......true.....but not dramatically so.

Battery life....there in lies a true rub. I'd want 6 hours but the difference will probably be significant.
post #38 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

OS X and iWork would take up less than 15 GB. Recovery partition is another 3 or 4, IIRC.

Windows is undeniably on the chubby side here, but still... not that chubby; clean install of Windows 8 Enterprise 64-bit is in vicinity of 20GB, or just a bit below. Win 8 Pro should take a bit less. Office 2013 Pro 64-bit full install is about 1.2GB on my PC. On Surface, those two should take between 20 - 22GB. Where is missing storage and how much of it can be recovered by uninstalling junk and deleting recovery partition, that remains to be seen.
post #39 of 150

Wonder which will suck more?

 

A.  The "jOBS" movie

 

B.  The entire Surface product line

 

C.  All of the above

 

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post #40 of 150
It's really ok Windows users are accustomed to being ripped off by Microsoft. They want even notice.
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