Microsoft's Surface Pro to ship with as little as 36% of advertised storage available to users - Page 4

 

Which feature did you consider silly?  Because the digitizer is a welcome addition and the touchscreen a necessity for metro apps.

 

It's cheaper than a MBA + iPad mini.

 

Getting all bent out of shape because it's called "Pro" is like getting bent out of shape because the MBP 13" is called Pro without a discrete GPU.  It's more pro than the MBA.  Likewise the Surface Pro is more pro than the RT. 

 

Frankly the costs are a wash between the $1099 128GB MBA and the $1128 128GB Surface Pro (type cover).

 

The value proposition depends.  If you're only using it as an ultrabook the MBA is probably better and less expensive.  If you use it as both your ultrabook and tablet then the Surface Pro is cheaper than the MBA + any tablet.

 

Whether the Surface Pro will work for you as a tablet depends.  I like the zagg pro plus keyboard (434 g) and with the iPad 4 (652g) it's not far from the Surface Pro (910 g) + type cover (217g) at 2.4 lbs (1086g) vs 2.5 LBS (1127g).

 

A MBA version of the surface pro would be really nice IMHO.  

 

The Surface Pro is currently the most expensive tablet on the market. Besides, you've never address the fact the Surface Pro is an inferior Windows device when compared with a regular Laptop for the same price, a recurring problem on Tablet PC. People aren't stupid, they don't want to pay more for the same Windows platform they already using. 

 

So what you are saying is the SP is a niche product for a very narrow market, for someone who want a secondary PC for light work and occasional tablet entertainment... It doesn't fit the premium price tag Microsoft is asking for, one of the major raison why the iPad got so many early follower comes from the price tag, at $499 impulsive buyer are willing to spend money on a new platform.  At $1000 for a gadget competing with cheaper products more fit for running softwares either in desktop or tablet configuration, I can't see how this is more than another gadget that will die in early adopter's desk.

Edited by BigMac2 - 1/31/13 at 11:42am

This sucks.

Tallest Skil the ADMIN removes posts he or she doesn't like.

Is it a good or a bad device......we'll see.......but the Admin controls the argument.

Am pissed at You Skil. Fer Crap's sake....we all have opinions.....but anyone who knows any mobile device can work their way around any prollem, regardless of what hardware they have in their hand.

Now.....remove this too.....but at least one or two people will see it.

My replies to you got removed, too, but you don't hear me going on about it. I put a lot of effort in those replies, albeit for a very short time frame but for those 15 seconds my reply to you was the only thing I was focusing on.

 

If the iPad is a car and the PC is a truck then the Surface Pro is a large cab pickup truck that seats four guys...you can call that niche but if so it may be a large one.

 

Is the pickup as nice a car as a car?  No.  Can the pickup haul as much as a dump truck?  No.  But it can hold 4 grown men and 2,000 lbs of payload.

 

I have not addressed the "fact" that they Surface Pro is an inferior Windows device when compared with a regular laptop because I don't believe that this is "fact".  It is your opinion and one I disagree with for the same reasons I disagree with the assertion that Apple products are "inferior" in comparison with "a regular laptop for the same price".  These comparisons are apples to oranges.

 

My desire is for a portable tablet computing device that I can have with me all the time but can dock for a full desktop experience so I don't need 2 machines.  The Surface Pro comes closest to this desire.  That doesn't mean it meets it but certainly a regular laptop does not.  Nor for that matter does the MBA + iPad.

What?

That's OK with You?

"Going on" about an Admin turning the discussion the way they want?

Crap.....am in the wrong place when the masses say that they understand the fight is fixed....they know it.....and they're cool with it.

/shrug....am still disappointed.

 

I don't know why you keep comparing the Surface Pro with a MBA, even if there are about the same price, those two products doesn't serve the same market.  Someone who want to buy a MBA won't consider the Surface Pro as an option. In another hands, for someone who primary needs for a mobile windows PC will compare options between the Surface Pro and other cheap PC laptop and Tablet available out there.  And for someone who want everything in a single device will have a compromised solution: a small laptop or a big tablet. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8_MHq6i-8U&feature=youtube_gdata_player

This is a surface pro with a dedicated video card......and is still snappy enough to do anything an iPad can do.

Weighs 9 ounces more and is .3 inches thicker.

The fight isn't fixed but it's also not unregulated. I've had posts removed and infractions given (even by mods I consider friends). If you step over the lines then and they react It is what it is. its not a perfect system but nothing is.

On top of that, this site is free, save for the ads, nor is it our site so I don't see why any of us should be upset over anything that is done here. If one doesn't like it they can go elsewhere or start their own. On top of on top of that, I feel this forum — of all the technology related forums in all the land — has the best commentators so as long as I can get something from my participation here I don't really care about how it's run.
Edited by SolipsismX - 1/31/13 at 2:19pm

 

Content of the removed post:

 

 

So it's insulting and offers zero solutions to my problem. Yeah, I deleted it. Had the name in the quote been anonymouse, nht, solipsismX, Gatorguy, Gazoobee, DaHarder, or anyone else, I would have done the same. 

 

But not Zazzles. I'd've left it if it had been Zazzles. 

Skil. The Admin who was nice enough to deliver a discussion to this statement:


That read like this....



Smooth, my comment deleting, unbiased brother.

Would that make that preferential mistreatment?

 

No, I'd treat all 12 of his accounts equally.

 

1080p is fine for the screen size. The DPI setting works well for most desktop apps... certainly the stuff I care about. Metro apps are fully scalable.

 

There's no issue running desktop apps from micro SDXC... not that you'd need to though, after ditching the recovery partition there's 91GB free on the 128GB model, an that's with full Office 2013 already installed.

 

Add a 64GB SDXC and configure you libraries to use it behind the scenes and you've got 150GB available.

 

Like I said, storage isn't an issue.

 

Most people doesn't know how to handle multiple drive on windows, many home users only know about the start menu and has never browse their HD content.  While you can install some software on a secondary drive, very few installer gave the option. Beside without any backup disk, ditching the recovery partition is a very bad idea. 

 

I still said, storage will be an issue for common users.

Edited by BigMac2 - 2/1/13 at 7:59am

 

A tablet that has to have a hard drive backup… Oh, that's funny. Used to be the case with Apple devices, but at least then it was off-device on a computer that would have already been backed up. Now it's just "one-click redownload and your settings are stored in iCloud".

 

This is where keeping a Tablet OS under 1 GB is smart, Microsoft will never offer OTA reinstallation for the Surface with such a huge OS.

 

Unless you or I wake up tomorrow and forget how to turn a computer on then any conversation about "common users" is completely irrelevant and pointless.

 

When I said "ditch" the recovery partition I meant off the main drive. It can be copied onto a USB drive in a few minutes.

 

Even then it's just a convenience thing as you could just grab any Windows install and Windows Update will grab the driver you need off the web.

 

I can't remember the last installer I used that didn't allow me to select the installation location. Maybe Chrome? In any case, like I said with 90GB available it's unlikely you would need to start installing desktop applications on a micro SDXC.

Office and Visual Studio are 2 Microsoft own softwares who aren't easy to install on another partition, things like Steam, Microsoft Marketplace or iTunes don't ask and use the main volume only by default.  

 

I've used and works on all computer generations since VaxVMS, DOS and System 6 got no secrets left to me. If you understand where the home computing comes from and where it goes, you got to realize things wants to go simpler and easy to use.  The desktop paradigm today is like the command prompt of the DOS in the old days, it become too clutter and cumbersome for the majority, because you and I represent only a very small amount of user who bought computers.  

 

I'll share you a personal story that just happen today, one aunt from my step family just got a massive overcharge on her internet bill.  Her first impression was: I've been hack or got a virus, typical reaction from PC users. But what really happen is during the holidays, on guest used her computer to download a torrent, she closed the windows and doesn't know about the sharing was still running in background, and now she's mad about everything. Most user doesn't wan't to know and care about how things work as long it's working, I'm none of them, but they represent a large proportion of people ending and using and buying PCs or other devices. 

 

You see It's too late to come back, Peoples wants their device works for them and not the opposite, they doesn't wan't to waste time anymore managing their device like they've done for their PC. They don't want to install antivirus anymore or doing backups.   Mobile devices, phones or tablets have already prove those things can works without caring about all of desktop pc hurdles. 

 

Now Microsoft with Surface and Windows 8 got a really bad strategy.  They created exactly what both of their core market doens't want, a cross-over between home entertainment and business - pro market. With all of Windows hurdles and none of the tablet advantages.

So yes, some geeks like you and me could drool for a Tablet Windows crossover device, but let me tell you, Windows apps is now so 90's in peoples minds who now enjoy new and refreshed mobiles ecosystem while Microsoft is still in the 90s. 

Edited by BigMac2 - 2/3/13 at 7:41am

128GiB Surface Pro + Type Cover iss $1128. 128GiB MBA is $1099. If you're not going to include the TypeCover then you can't reasonably compare it as being in the same league as the MBA.

Also note that the 128GiB Surface Pro has about 25GB less usable storage space than the 128GiB MBA.

If you want a touchscreen, full computer, the Surface sucks.  Asus, Acer and Lenovo have much better offerings.  

 

You can install both Office 2013 and Visual Studio 2012 to a different drive if you like, but like I said I doubt it would be an issue with 90GB available on the 128GB model.

 

The reason I said discussion about "common users" is completely irrelevant and pointless is because the conversation goes around and around based on nothing more than anecdotal evidence and conjecture.

 

I get you aunt would be fine with an iPad. I have a similar story, my (almost 70 year old) step father purchased himself his very first computer for Christmas... an iPad. 

 

It's easy to read too much into that though.

 

There is certainly a market segment that want (and often need) the valet computing experience. However the overwhelming majority of people (including a generation of incredibly capable digital natives now reaching the consumer market) that appear to be happier with more choice\complexity, not less.

 

Look at Android (a vastly more complex solution than iOS) crushing the iPhone in market share and the continued dominance of Windows (again, a far more complex solution) over OSX.

 

With 90% of tablet owners holding onto their PC's you have to at least wonder if the iPad is more of an auxiliary device rather than a PC replacement.

 

In any case, like I said this discussion is pointless. You throw up some ideas, then I throw some up some ideas, but really neither of us know and all it does it detract from the actual conversation which in this case, was about the pros and cons of the hybrid form-factor.

 

You don't seams to understand how fair market works, you can't compare the near zero margin and highly subsidize android phones market or Microsoft Windows OEM monopoly with fair and square Tablet market.  You can keep repeating and convince yourself there is a way to manage the 128GB Surface space, I agree with you there is always a way, I can do the same kind of trickery on the iPad and run apps from a NFS share, but those patches are not viable solution for common user, making the 64GB Surface Pro a frustrating and uninteresting product for most.  

 

Right now the majority of home PC's is being use for browsing the Web or reading emails. Many house hold got multiple PC, one for every family member, those secondary computers will be replaced by tablet and other device in a near future because Windows is slowly but surely loose his mandatory status in people minds. This revolution has already begun few years ago without Microsoft, and Surface is only another try from Microsoft to not let go Windows legacy 

Edited by BigMac2 - 2/4/13 at 10:49am

 

Just a note:  the iPhone is the most highly subsidized phone in the US.

 

Sprint has said that they pay an extra 40% more for it over other smartphone subsidies.

What's your point?

 

Yes the iPhone is subsidized, but Carriers around the world pushed way more Android $0 and bogo deals than iPhones. There is no fair market in smartphone indeed and this is why free Android scores better than the iPhone.  For unsubsidized tablet market, where people votes with their dollars, the iPad dominance is undeniable.

Edited by BigMac2 - 2/4/13 at 12:10pm

 

Engadget just published a Surface Pro review:

http://www.engadget.com/2013/02/05/microsoft-surface-pro-review/

 

Here is what they have to say on having HD resolution on a 10in screen:

 

Am soo happy I started this.

At least we have a real debate here.

I find it funny that Woz. likes the Windows phone OS.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/7/3963962/steve-wozniak-apple-falling-behind-in-phones-samsung-great-competitor


It can simply do whatever and I mean whatever...I need with this device.

And the guy who basically set this whole OS stuff up says he thinks we as Apple people are loyal just to be loyal.

Me? I'm going to take a look around and just see what the devices I have can do....and when I find that sumpin' does more things I need......I'm bouncing.
Edited by handquake - 2/7/13 at 9:57pm