New smaller form factor Apple TV supposedly outed by the FCC - Page 2

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 
2) It's HEVC as well as ISO/IEC 23008-2 MPEG-H Part 2 and ITU-T H.HEVC. It had tentative names of H.265 and H.NGVC. H.265 stands out better to me than HEVC.

It follows the string of existing names better, at least. I like 'em both, I was just unsure if they'd opted to keep calling it H.265 officially, too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil 

"Steve would have… " Wait, Steve actually WOULD have been furious at them…

 

So. It's a box. And it's smaller. Not a TV, huh. Okay.

Forget the TV. Apple is not going to build a TV set. That idea is a red herring.

Originally Posted by waybacmac 
Forget the TV. Apple is not going to build a TV set. That idea is a red herring.

I'm not sure about that. I'm still not totally sold on the intelligence of the idea, but I at least see an avenue whereby I could be sold on it.

Originally Posted by hair 
…it will be a 4Kset meaning… …State-of-the-art… (Apple only does "state-of-the-art")

Then they should sell an SHV TV instead. That's actually retina, so it fits their current trend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mstone 


Yes it is official and since Apple can design their own chips perhaps it is included but I am no expert on hardware video encoding so perhaps someone more knowledgeable in the new codec can weigh in.

This is a software upgrade only. As long as the GPU has enough oomph. I suspect even the last rev does. Decoding is the easy part, for exactly that reason.

But even in that case, it's not clear Apple would want to use it. It would cut bandwidth, which would be great, but they'd have to roll it out across ALL of their platforms, and that doesn't seem likely. They could roll it out only on platforms that can handle it, but then they'd have to keep two copies of all their content. Maybe that solution isn't all that bad.

Originally Posted by PhilBoogie 
Well, that's a 180

Let's call it a "120°, driving on an S-curve" right now.

Only four-fold? That's pathetic, but in line with the past…

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 


How prevalent are 3D HDTV's? I've read what a failure they are but I also read everyday what a failure Apple is, too.

Blu-ray adoption is clearly higher than 3D HDTV's but 3D might be an easier add for Apple as it is just having good enough HW, not special HW, and the right SW. Is that correct?

If you add to the equation the movie studios pushing Apple to add the feature to their iTunes Store then I can see that as being an option that we shouldn't discount. The 32nm A5X should be able to handle that, right?

The A5X must be able to drive two 1080p images at 120 FPS in order to achieve a good quality HD image. It may have just enough, or just short. If it can't, I would bet on the A7 being capable of this. If this capability is dependent on a future processor, expect future generation iPhone/iPad/iPod Touch with that processor to have it.

Of interest to note here is that Apple has many 3D patents not presently being used in any product. One is for a system that allows for a 3D display without glasses, similar to Sega's but with better quality and less strain on the eyes. Another is a sensor for a camera that measures the depths of objects with an invisible laser.

3D has many issues but all if them are being addressed and it will be commonplace in the not so distant future, like sound, color, stereo, HD, surround sound all have become.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 


How prevalent are 3D HDTV's? I've read what a failure they are but I also read everyday what a failure Apple is, too.

Blu-ray adoption is clearly higher than 3D HDTV's but 3D might be an easier add for Apple as it is just having good enough HW, not special HW, and the right SW. Is that correct?

If you add to the equation the movie studios pushing Apple to add the feature to their iTunes Store then I can see that as being an option that we shouldn't discount. The 32nm A5X should be able to handle that, right?

The A5X must be able to drive two 1080p images at 120 FPS in order to achieve a good quality HD image. It may have just enough, or just short. If it can't, I would bet on the A7 being capable of this. If this capability is dependent on a future processor, expect future generation iPhone/iPad/iPod Touch with that processor to have it.

Of interest to note here is that Apple has many 3D patents not presently being used in any product. One is for a system that allows for a 3D display without glasses, similar to Sega's but with better quality and less strain on the eyes. Another is a sensor for a camera that measures the depths of objects with an invisible laser.

3D has many issues but all if them are being addressed and it will be commonplace in the not so distant future, like sound, color, stereo, HD, surround sound all have become.

Whatever's going on with the Apple TV, I certainly hope it isn't about 3D. Apple pushing that gimmick would be terrible.

I'm all for 3D when it's 1. no additional cost and 2. glasses-free. Don't make it another step and don't make it any harder than anything else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcarling 

I'm completely happy with my Apple TV. I'm not sure what there is to improve, other than perhaps lowering the production cost. The 4.22 mm reduction in size might allow for smaller packaging and a reduction in shipping costs. Anyway, I can't see any reason to replace the Apple TV I already have.

Boy- I can!  A ton of reasons- I have the 3 Apple TV 3s and can easily imagine reasons to replace them.  Here is my wish list for what information we know so far:

-Applications (Larger SSD- the current 8gb isn't near enough- 16gb would be adequate, 32gb preferred).  You can't have Apps with the current device because of size limitations.

-Stream iTV- whether it be Vios or U-verse.  As mentioned in this thread- they could even do a cable company.

-Built in DVR if it has iTV (again- with 32gb, this would be attainable.  Or at the very least, a software tweak to be able to record and store on a Mac).

-Better search functionality via remote.  Specifically Siri.  Remote looks the same with an additional button you hold, it mutes what you're watching (or turns down substantially), and you tell it what to do or search for.

Software related:

-Unified search across all applications (Even if they dont have apps- this should happen).

-If no apps, add some other ones- like Amazon, HBO, Pandora, CNN, ESPN, or other popular ones.

I'd gladly not only replace my ATVs, but pay more in the process ($199).  By the way- this would make this the best box in the market.  By a mile.  There is absolutely no reason why Apple shouldn't have all the above on the next release (with the exception of iTV- which is just a wish, but possible).

One idea of how they could do a TV, and with apps, is to have something like Sky Go on it.  In other words, have the cable/sat company have an app that functions like the stb in watching tv, it is simply an app.

No, I don't have Sky Go, I live in the US, but from what I have seen online about Sky Go, it would seem like the ideal type of app for an Apple TV.

Now that you have me thinking here, I'm not sure which is the greatest development of mankind.  Velcro sure is useful, and is interesting based on something natural.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by anonymouse 

 

I believe you meant, the microprocessor is perhaps the greatest thing since velcro.

So can people actually buy this model A1469 Apple TV? I see the model number on the Apple site hasn't changed, there are no change references for A5X or other changes in the tech specs. Is this still a future shipping product? 

Originally Posted by gtj333 
So can people actually buy this model A1469 Apple TV? I see the model number on the Apple site hasn't changed, there are no change references for A5X or other changes in the tech specs. Is this still a future shipping product? 

We know nothing about it beyond this post. If it's not for sale now, there's no reason to expect it being so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtj333 

So can people actually buy this model A1469 Apple TV? I see the model number on the Apple site hasn't changed, there are no change references for A5X or other changes in the tech specs. Is this still a future shipping product? 

It likely is. If you want to guarantee having it though, you obviously have to wait until its confirmed to be in all shipping devices. It sounds like a silent update. I don't think Apple's doing it for any special reason pertaining to the Apple TV product features.

Like last year with the die shrunk A5, Apple is using a low end product as a "pilot" production or test bed for producing die shrunk processors to eventually be in flagship products. Last year, it was an A5r2 on Samsung's 32 nm node, used in Apple TV and iPad 2 devices. If this A5Xr2 is on TSMC's 28 nm node, that likely means the processors in 2013 iPhones and iPads will be on TSMC's 28 nm node.

I was totally wrong just now.

MacTracker just updated and says this new model of Apple TV (A1469) has an A5X chip in it.

Not that it would use or need it, but that's the model being sold now; A5X. According to them, at least.

Macrumors.com is saying the background refresh of the AppleTV contains a die shrunk A5, not a A5X. So, original A5 was a 45 nm, 123 mm^2 SoC. The A5r2 in the 2012 Apple TV, iPad 2,4, and iPod touch 5th gen is a 32 nm, 71 mm^2 SoC. This further die shrunk chip is 36 mm^2.

So what node is it at?

It does not appear to be a 28 nm node chip unless Apple did an amazing job with a re-layout of the SoC, like removing a CPU core, GPU core, and or maybe a memory channel. 1-36/71 = 49% die shrink. That's basically a full node. If the A5r2 at 71 mm^2 was a 32 nm chip, this means that this new 36 mm^2 A5 was fabbed at 22 nm, and it was basically a perfect die shrink.

Who has a 22 nm fab? There is only one company.

Still, hard pressed to believe that Apple would get a deal from Intel, so maybe it is something else or Macrumors is measuring wrong.

Chipworks took apart an Apple TV they bought and they have come to the conclusion that this new A5 is a 32 nm Samsung part.

So, either Apple removed half the chip (1 CPU core, 1 GPU core, 1 memory channel, maybe ISP as well), or they had a whole lot of un-used floor plan space in the prior A5 layout, and have re-laid out the SoC to reduce it's size by half on the same node. On to the x-rays.

I wonder where they are taking this chip? A $300 to $400 iPhone? A $200 iPod touch? An iOS powered iPod nano? A $250 iPad mini? An iOS powered wristband computer? A Lightning-to-4k video adaptor?

Roughly, it's going to cost half as much as the current A5 in the 2012 iPod touch, iPad mini, and iPad devices. Probably costs $5 in bulk.