Apple says new Apple TV isn't redesigned, just features minor tweaks - Page 3

Originally Posted by dasanman69 
Andysol just posted a laundry list of what can't be Airplayed, and again why do I need 2 devices to watch something?

That's by choice, not by impossibility. Apple could easily remove the ability to block AirPlay from the SDK, forcing them into it.

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Originally Posted by dasanman69 


No of course they don't but why need 2 devices? It's kinda going back to carrying a cell phone, a MP3 player, and a PDA.

So you carry around your streaming box?  As for "needing" two devices, the Apple TV is considered icing on the ecosystem cake and Apple already assumes that you have either an iphone/ipod, ipad or a mac first.  If you don't, then you can still use it but it will have limitations.  If you don't like that then it's not the device for you.  My main gripe were the outright lies regarding content.  One poster even stated some bull about not wanting to be "tied to iTunes" which is straight up untrue.  You can own an Apple TV and NEVER touch iTunes (Netflix, Hulu+, YouTube, Vimeo, 3+ Sports "channels", Radio, Livestreams (Music Festivals and Keynotes), Podcasts).  Sounds like quite a bit of content to me.  And of course the rebuttal consists of a bunch of premium channels that certainly are not available to other streaming boxes out of the box that you can access with the Apple TV if you already have another apple device.

Basically, if one is going to be critical of something at least let that criticism be valid.  I'm not going around trashing Android because it doesn't mop my kitchen floors.

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Originally Posted by anantksundaram 

LOL. That one comment indicates your level of cluelessness.

what are you talking about?  The official apple position in 2007 was to limit iPhone apps to Web 2.0 apps which produced limited results.  A year later they gave developers an SDK to write native apps and the results have been phenomenal.  At the time Steve Jobs said they did the SDK/App Store because developers asked to be able to do more than they could via Web2.0.

Apple TV faces a similar situation today.  Airplay Mirroring is to AppleTV what Web 2.0 was to iPhone.  It allows more content, but is limiting.  In the case of airplay mirroring, it is also inconvenient.  Some apps block airplay streaming.  And you can't watch the programming and use your iPad at the same time if the iPad is doing the streaming.  Also, Airplay streaming introduces a lag, so is problematic for games.

AppleTV runs iOS.  Free it from it's current limitations with an App store before it's too late.  An app store done right, not the mess that is Google TV.  Otherwise Roku, smart blu ray players and smart TVs will make the Apple TV irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by freckledbruh 

Showtime, Cinemax and HBO require a subscription to their services to access their content and if you have a subscription then you don't need to airplay it because you access that through your cable box.  As for Amazon Instant Video, that would be Amazon's fault (or their content providers) as they could turn on airplay easily on their end AND if you can access that on your mac with Mountain Lion then you can mirror it (same with BBC Player).  So basically no valid criticism regarding content.

It is a criticism.  And please... please lets not mention it being Amazon's fault.  Being on Apple TV only benefits Amazon.  It is Apple that is holding the strings here as it doesn't benefit them- which is fine, But call a spade a spade.  Amazon & HBO Go are on every single streamer out there except Apples.  They have such a strong personal vendetta against Apple that it's worth hurting themselves in the process?

To your point about mirroring on your Mac- fine.  So if Apple TV dropped Netflix and Hulu +, that'd be cool with everyone because you can just mirror it?  Seriously.  The point is every other streamer has it- Apple doesn't.  That's one thing I agree that Tallest Ski always says- he hates having to stream his iTunes and leave his computer on- he wants dedicated storage through Time capsule- a smart idea.  Using Mirroring, we're forcing that to run Amazon prime or HBO when we shouldn't have to.  Mirroring is incredible- but it shouldnt be required for simple video streaming apps.

As for HBO/Showtime/Cinemax needing a subscription.  Yes, they do.  So does Netflix.  So does Hulu +.  You can't watch it through your cable box.  Unless you have HBO, and go to their on demand through cable, and then look at their content on HBO go through your iPad- then you don't know what you're talking about.  I don't mean this rudely, but you need to educate yourself on it before forming a valid opinion.  You're just speaking and guessing.  I see it for myself.  U-verse on demand vs HBO Go isn't even 25% of the content.  

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Originally Posted by freckledbruh 

 

I haven't found that in my own experience BUT if that is the case then you would access your cable account (in my case it was xfinity/comcast) and play it online and then do mirroring.  I highly doubt that these other boxes are giving people HBO for free.

They aren't.  But the content isn't there on Demand.

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Originally Posted by freckledbruh 

Basically, if one is going to be critical of something at least let that criticism be valid.  I'm not going around trashing Android because it doesn't mop my kitchen floors.

I don't get this point.  If every other phone could mop the kitchen floors, then an Android should.  Every other box can stream HBO or Amazon or Pandora or BBC.  So why not Apple TV?

We aren't talking about streaming live NFL games or something crazy that no one else offers.  We're talking about simple apps that everyone offers.  And not forcing you to have a 2 year old Mac that you have to keep on and go to, which can be extremely inconvenient (my iMac is in the office for example- so I'd have to get up from the couch and go to another part of the house- wake up the computer, open safari, etc. etc).

I fail to see how you can't recognize this criticism as being valid.

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Originally Posted by freckledbruh 

So you carry around your streaming box?  As for "needing" two devices, the Apple TV is considered icing on the ecosystem cake and Apple already assumes that you have either an iphone/ipod, ipad or a mac first.  If you don't, then you can still use it but it will have limitations.  If you don't like that then it's not the device for you.  My main gripe were the outright lies regarding content.  One poster even stated some bull about not wanting to be "tied to iTunes" which is straight up untrue.  You can own an Apple TV and NEVER touch iTunes (Netflix, Hulu+, YouTube, Vimeo, 3+ Sports "channels", Radio, Livestreams (Music Festivals and Keynotes), Podcasts).  Sounds like quite a bit of content to me.  And of course the rebuttal consists of a bunch of premium channels that certainly are not available to other streaming boxes out of the box that you can access with the Apple TV if you already have another apple device.

 

Basically, if one is going to be critical of something at least let that criticism be valid.  I'm not going around trashing Android because it doesn't mop my kitchen floors.

it's like saying my TV can get NBC and CBS, so why does it need ABC, there's plenty of content on NBC and CBS.  Nevermind the sports fans who want monday night football and the nba finals.

if you subscribe to HBO, you can watch it on your home tv.  HBO Go is designed to let subscribers watch HBO while they are traveling.  If you are traveling with Roku, you can watch HBO in your hotel room TV without bringing a computer.  If you are traveling with AppleTV, you can't.  Not even if you have an iPad.

This reminds me of one more thing they desperately need to fix on AppleTV.  It doesn't let you sign into the internet at a hotel. So expand my list slightly

HDMI 1.4 with 3D support

App Store

Global Search

Ability to sign into a hotel's wifi network

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Originally Posted by Andysol 

It is a criticism.  And please... please lets not mention it being Amazon's fault.  Being on Apple TV only benefits Amazon.  It is Apple that is holding the strings here as it doesn't benefit them- which is fine, But call a spade a spade.  Amazon & HBO Go are on every single streamer out there except Apples.  They have such a strong personal vendetta against Apple that it's worth hurting themselves in the process?

 

To your point about mirroring on your Mac- fine.  So if Apple TV dropped Netflix and Hulu +, that'd be cool with everyone because you can just mirror it?  Seriously.  The point is every other streamer has it- Apple doesn't.  That's one thing I agree that Tallest Ski always says- he hates having to stream his iTunes and leave his computer on- he wants dedicated storage through Time capsule- a smart idea.  Using Mirroring, we're forcing that to run Amazon prime or HBO when we shouldn't have to.  Mirroring is incredible- but it shouldnt be required for simple video streaming apps.

 

As for HBO/Showtime/Cinemax needing a subscription.  Yes, they do.  So does Netflix.  So does Hulu +.  You can't watch it through your cable box.  Unless you have HBO, and go to their on demand through cable, and then look at their content on HBO go through your iPad- then you don't know what you're talking about.  I don't mean this rudely, but you need to educate yourself on it before forming a valid opinion.  You're just speaking and guessing.  I see it for myself.  U-verse on demand vs HBO Go isn't even 25% of the content.  

 

They aren't.  But the content isn't there on Demand.

I don't get this point.  If every other phone could mop the kitchen floors, then an Android should.  Every other box can stream HBO or Amazon or Pandora or BBC.  So why not Apple TV?

I fail to see how you can't recognize this criticism as being valid.

1) If Amazon isn't allowing you to airplay videos then it IS their fault because any app or website can do it if they WANT to so if it's not there then they decided not to do it.

2)  You clearly have not read jack about the fight HBO has had with Apple regarding it's content.  The fact that there even is an HBO Go app for iOS is a miracle.  As for other streaming boxes having it and the Apple TV doesn't, please see the case study of Amazon having DRM free music before iTunes.  The music industry did that for the express purpose of bolstering Amazon's music store so that they weren't completely relying on Apple for music sales and the same tactics are being done with video.  Unlike music DRM though, Apple has provided a work around with mirroring.  Maybe YOU should educate yourself.

3)  Um, I worked for Xfinity/Comcast and got all of there services free of charge during my employment there.  If you go through your cable providers website to access content, whatever is in HBO Go is on there, i.e use mirroring.

4)  The criticism isn't valid when your criticism is limited to ONLY how YOU want to access things as if there is NO way to access it and there clearly is.

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Originally Posted by alandail 

if you subscribe to HBO, you can watch it on your home tv.  HBO Go is designed to let subscribers watch HBO while they are traveling.  If you are traveling with Roku, you can watch HBO in your hotel room TV without bringing a computer.  If you are traveling with AppleTV, you can't.  Not even if you have an iPad.

You're such a whiner.  Just travel with your 27" iMac, and mirror it to your Apple TV.  Duh!

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Originally Posted by alandail 

 

it's like saying my TV can get NBC and CBS, so why does it need ABC, there's plenty of content on NBC and CBS.  Nevermind the sports fans who want monday night football and the nba finals.

Um, your two sports examples are available OTA so what is your point?  And you still haven't named a "channel" that other streaming boxes have that Apple TV doesn't.  AFAIK, Amazon Video doesn't count because it is basically the same as netflix and iTunes therefore switch service.

I know Apple wants to force us to the itunes store for content, but I'm getting tired of it. Amazon as an app obviously doesn't happen because it directly affects apples business model with apple tv. But I have to say, interface for the content available should embarrass apple. I'll agree with what has been said a million times.  I am sick of running itunes on my mini to access my movies. And I hate that the apple tv doesn't keep movies all in one place.  I have to select movies for content purchased through itunes, but computer for my own movies. And the interface under "Computers" is laughable at this point. I'm ranting... the point is, the things that are already available on apple tv are a mess.
 

Originally Posted by amador_o 
And the interface under "Computers" is laughable at this point.

I agree with everything you've said except this. What's wrong with it? It's as simple as humanly possible.

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Originally Posted by freckledbruh 

Um, your two sports examples are available OTA so what is your point?  And you still haven't named a "channel" that other streaming boxes have that Apple TV doesn't.  AFAIK, Amazon Video doesn't count because it is basically the same as netflix and iTunes therefore switch service.

Are you deaf?  Can you not read?

HBO GO HBO GO HBO GO

SHOWTIME SHOWTIME SHOWTIME

CINEMAX CINEMAX CINEMAX

BBC BBC BBC

VUDU VUDU VUDU

PANDORA PANDORA PANDORA

Don't give me the idiocy of freaking MIRRORING!  You can't be reasoned with!

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Originally Posted by amador_o 

I know Apple wants to force us to the itunes store for content, but I'm getting tired of it. Amazon as an app obviously doesn't happen because it directly affects apples business model with apple tv. But I have to say, interface for the content available should embarrass apple. I'll agree with what has been said a million times.  I am sick of running itunes on my mini to access my movies. And I hate that the apple tv doesn't keep movies all in one place.  I have to select movies for content purchased through itunes, but computer for my own movies. And the interface under "Computers" is laughable at this point. I'm ranting... the point is, the things that are already available on apple tv are a mess.
 

Bull.  If Apple only cared about iTunes content then why are they adding more and more icons to the grid of icons on my Apple TV every other update that has nada to do with iTunes?  As for hating the fact that you have to leave your mini on to access your movies, part of that blame is with consumers who constantly emailed Apple complaining that the original Apple TV with onboard storage was "too confusing" and that streaming was enough.  I will sell you my OG Apple TV for the cost of the new one (refurbished so $89 instead of $99).

Originally Posted by Andysol 
HBO GO HBO GO HBO GO

SHOWTIME SHOWTIME SHOWTIME

CINEMAX CINEMAX CINEMAX

BBC BBC BBC

PANDORA PANDORA PANDORA

The prevention of AirPlay for these apps is on purpose by their creators.

Hopefully you can comprehend that, as I'm not going to paste it twice more.

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Originally Posted by Andysol 

Are you deaf?  Can you not read?

 

HBO GO HBO GO HBO GO

SHOWTIME SHOWTIME SHOWTIME

CINEMAX CINEMAX CINEMAX

BBC BBC BBC

VUDU VUDU VUDU

PANDORA PANDORA PANDORA

 

Don't give me the idiocy of freaking MIRRORING!  You can't be reasoned with!

Download your cable providers tv app and if it is xfinity at least you can access ALL of the episodes and seasons of shows from those networks (except vudu and BBC) and then freaking mirror them.  If you don't like that solution then take your rant to those networks' main offices.  I am sure they will ignore you but at least you can say that you did something more than go on a caps filled rant on a website that can't do anything about your problem.

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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil 

 

I agree with everything you've said except this. What's wrong with it? It's as simple as humanly possible.

I like the pages of cover art available under movies... I don't disagree that it is as simply as humanly possible, as long as you are literate... my youngest is able to navigate, but struggles because you have to flip through every movie to see cover art.  Netflix, as a contrast, is no problem for her.

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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil 

 

The prevention of AirPlay for these apps is on purpose by their creators.

 

Hopefully you can comprehend that, as I'm not going to paste it twice more.

Tallest- that is not a workaround!  Even if Airplay worked you are still dedicating your iPad to that- nothing else.  So now I've purchased an iPad and Apple TV to do what any other streamer can do.  We shouldn't be forced to Airplay when they are on every single other streamer.  Amazon would love to be on the Apple TV.  Who in their right mind would pay for Netflix when you can get Amazon Instant for less money and free 2 day shipping to boot?

The underlined is my main point.

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Originally Posted by freckledbruh 

Bull.  If Apple only cared about iTunes content then why are they adding more and more icons to the grid of icons on my Apple TV every other update that has nada to do with iTunes?  As for hating the fact that you have to leave your mini on to access your movies, part of that blame is with consumers who constantly emailed Apple complaining that the original Apple TV with onboard storage was "too confusing" and that streaming was enough.  I will sell you my OG Apple TV for the cost of the new one (refurbished so $89 instead of $99).

You have all the answers... we are lucky to have you.

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Originally Posted by freckledbruh 

Download your cable providers tv app and if it is xfinity at least you can access ALL of the episodes and seasons of shows from those networks (except vudu and BBC) and then freaking mirror them.  If you don't like that solution then take your rant to those networks' main offices.  I am sure they will ignore you but at least you can say that you did something more than go on a caps filled rant on a website that can't do anything about your problem.

You're unreal!  Do I have to complain to the cable office for it to work on Roku?  How about XBOX 360?  How about PS3?  How about the crappiest box in the world- Google TV?  They all have it.  It's not a cable issue- it's Apple.

True, if Comcast doesn't allow HBO at that point, then it's the cable companies fault.  But we don't even get to that point because we can't access it via Apple TV.

But hey- at least I named two more "channels" that are on other boxes the Apple TV doesn't have.  Hopefully those are satisfactory enough for you.

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Originally Posted by amador_o 

You have all the answers... we are lucky to have you.

I take back all my other replies.  I agree with this.  We are lucky to have you.

Something funny I noticed about Freckle"mirroring is the solution"dbruh-  his signature mentions a 2010 Mac Mini- something you can't even Mirror with. Oh the irony...

Originally Posted by amador_o 
I like the pages of cover art available under movies... I don't disagree that it is as simply as humanly possible, as long as you are literate... my youngest is able to navigate, but struggles because you have to flip through every movie to see cover art.  Netflix, as a contrast, is no problem for her.

Ah, you'd prefer a grid, I see. Well, treat it as a learning exercise. She'll learn how to read from this.

Originally Posted by Andysol 
So now I've purchased an iPad and Apple TV to do what any other streamer can do.

"Any other streamer" (whatever this means) doesn't sell product.

You're not; buy one. Use that instead.

Anyone competing with Apple would love to be on Apple's products, yeah.

Originally Posted by dasanman69 
They already offer the app for the iPod/iPhone/iPad so why not Apple TV?

Because there aren't apps on Apple TV. That should be abundantly clear to anyone even asking these questions.

Poor analogy. "What if your car had a built-in GPS and direction service, but you didn't like the service they built-in. You wanted whatever other service, but they don't offer it."

I actually have a 2011 mac mini but was/am too lazy to update the signature.

Also, if you are so happy with your Roku, why do you care Caps Lock Kanye West so much about what the Apple TV can and cannot do?  Life is too short.  Go get some fresh air(play).

Originally Posted by dasanman69 
Apps, channels same difference

No. They're not. Quite evidently they are completely different, since one exists in one place, freely, and the other exists in another, and only when and where Apple says.

Why would you have purchased an Apple TV for a service that it didn't have? It's a perfect analogy.

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Originally Posted by dasanman69 


Think of it this way, what if the iPhone didn't include a iPod?

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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil 

 

Poor analogy. "What if your car had a built-in GPS and direction service, but you didn't like the service they built-in. You wanted whatever other service, but they don't offer it."

 

Why do you only quote a portion of what he said?  His analogy made perfect sense when you quote the whole thing.

 

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Originally Posted by dasanman69 


Think of it this way, what if the iPhone didn't include a iPod? What if you could only stream your music from the iPod to the iPhone?

That's the same thing as saying you need an iPad to Airplay to ATV for a certain feature to work (Like Amazon or HBO- IF they worked via Airplay).  But it would be much more convenient for it to be built in- much like the iPod is to the iPhone.  What about that analogy is poor?

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Originally Posted by Andysol 

 

 

That's the same thing as saying you need an iPad to Airplay to ATV for a certain feature to work (Like Amazon or HBO- IF they worked via Airplay).  But it would be much more convenient for it to be built in- much like the iPod is to the iPhone.  What about that analogy is poor?

The analogy is poor because the main reason Apple made the iPhone was to integrate the iPod into a phone.  See the Motorola Rokr.  Apple hated how Motorola executed it and decided to roll their own.  And while I have disagreed with posts saying that a person MUST use iTunes to use the Apple TV, the reason Apple made the Apple TV was to bring iTunes into the living room in an easier way (I, like many, use to directly hook up our computers to the television).  Amazon and HBO Go is not a requirement for most consumers to purchase the Apple TV.  I wouldn't buy a car that couldn't get me from point a to point b (iTunes) but I might buy one that didn't have leather seats (HBO Go, etc.). 

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Originally Posted by dasanman69 


I didn't edit his analogy. Where I feel it doesn't make sense it that GPS isn't vital to drive a car nor the reason that the car was purchased.

I said he edited yours.  He only quoted the first part.  Not the streaming from iPod to iPhone part.  I guess I wasn't as clear on typing as it was in my head.  :)

Originally Posted by Andysol 
Why do you only quote a portion of what he said?  His analogy made perfect sense when you quote the whole thing.

It needs to be separate companies.

You have to buy an external device to view the service, just as you'd have to buy an external GPS to view the different GPS service. For the latter, the external service isn't in the car and isn't streamable thereto. Then the question becomes why that is, but that's a different argument.

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Originally Posted by freckledbruh 


That is neither here nor there with regards to HBO Go and Amazon Video though. That has more to do with the content owners and where they choose to place their content. Look at the video for iCloud situation. Not every studio allows Apple to utilize their titles that way. Is someone going to argue that that is Apple's fault and they are refusing to allow some titles to have that feature and the studios really want it?

I can give you an example why a studio wouldn't want their movie to be available in the cloud.  They want you to use ultraviolet.  Or they want you to re-rent.

Please, give me one example why Amazon or HBO wouldn't want their application on Apple TV.  I can give you several reasons why they would want it.

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Originally Posted by dasanman69 


Who's to blame doesn't really matter. You spent most of this thread arguing with people who want their Apple TV to be more like the competition, I don't think that it's a unfair request. I'm surprised that the Apple TV doesn't have iTunes, because the same exact shows are available through Amazon and viewed with Roku, etc.

1)  I don't think products have to be the same or do the same things in the same way that another product does.  I have tried to point out to you and the other poster that you can in fact get the content you want onto the Apple TV.  You dismiss these answers because you can't get it the way that YOU want.  Then when you ask the question of why, I explain and now you say that those answers don't really matter.  Well why ask the question then?  Why not enjoy your streaming box from the competition?  

2) What do you mean that the Apple TV doesn't have iTunes???

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Originally Posted by freckledbruh 

Um, your two sports examples are available OTA so what is your point?  And you still haven't named a "channel" that other streaming boxes have that Apple TV doesn't.  AFAIK, Amazon Video doesn't count because it is basically the same as netflix and iTunes therefore switch service.

it was called an analogy.

And several channels have been listed

Amazon Video - Available on Roku, not available on Apple TV.  this is not the same as netflix.  Amazon Video has some different free content with Prime and also lets you rent other content

HBO - Available on Roku, not available on AppleTV

Ted Talks - Avalible on Roku, not available on AppleTV

Vudu - available on roku, not available on apple TV

There are others. 

some of these are available on other things like smart tvs, $90 blue ray players, PS3, XBox, etc.  Other Apps are available on different devices.  Apple could have all of them available on the AppleTV with an app store.  We have several Apple TVs in our home, but they increasingly get used less and less because the only unique thing it can stream is iTunes content and airplay.  Airplay is great for work so we can put our computer displays on a big screen for meetings, but isn't the ideal way to view content at home.  I used to only have digital movies on iTunes, now my digital ultraviolet collection is larger than my iTunes collection.

Why do I care? I'm an Apple shareholder.  They should be dominating the set top device market. Instead they still treat is as a hobby and risk becoming irrelevant.  If another year goes by without an app store, they will be irrelevant. It's a mistake to compare apple TV sales to sales of Roku, compare them instead to sales of BluRay players and TVs with apps.

And the potential of a game market with AppleTV is huge.  The opportunity is being squandered.

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Originally Posted by alandail 

 

it was called an analogy.

 

And several channels have been listed

 

Amazon Video - Available on Roku, not available on Apple TV.  this is not the same as netflix.  Amazon Video has some different free content with Prime and also lets you rent other content

 

HBO - Available on Roku, not available on AppleTV

 

Ted Talks - Avalible on Roku, not available on AppleTV

 

Vudu - available on roku, not available on apple TV

 

There are others. 

 

some of these are available on other things like smart tvs, $90 blue ray players, PS3, XBox, etc.  Other Apps are available on different devices.  Apple could have all of them available on the AppleTV with an app store.  We have several Apple TVs in our home, but they increasingly get used less and less because the only unique thing it can stream is iTunes content and airplay.  Airplay is great for work so we can put our computer displays on a big screen for meetings, but isn't the ideal way to view content at home.  I used to only have digital movies on iTunes, now my digital ultraviolet collection is larger than my iTunes collection.

 

Why do I care? I'm an Apple shareholder.  They should be dominating the set top device market. Instead they still treat is as a hobby and risk becoming irrelevant.  If another year goes by without an app store, they will be irrelevant. It's a mistake to compare apple TV sales to sales of Roku, compare them instead to sales of BluRay players and TVs with apps.

 

And the potential of a game market with AppleTV is huge.  The opportunity is being squandered.

We have already discussed HBO Go (and there's a new article on that anyway) and Amazon so I am done with that.  You can watch Ted Talks straight on the Apple TV through Podcasts.  I have read not so great reviews on Vudu content but maybe it has gotten better.  As for caring about the Apple TV because you are a shareholder, then I guess you can breathe a sigh of relief because the Apple TV has sold over 10 million units with sales increasing (and a statement from Steam/Valve saying it is a major threat to the gaming industry) and sells waaay more than the competition. So as you can see, Roku and the like are the ones playing catch up when it comes to sales.  Funny, someone mentioned google tv having more and yet that product was/is an abject failure.