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Rumor: Apple's next iPad mini to pack 324ppi Retina display

post #1 of 83
Thread Starter 
The follow-up to Apple's iPad mini will reportedly feature a Retina display with a pixel density of 324 pixels per inch ? higher even than the display on the fourth-generation iPad.

The rumor comes via investment news service BrightWire and cites sources close to Taiwanese Apple suppliers, who say that AU Optronics is piloting the production of a second-generation 7.9-inch iPad mini.

iPad resolutions
Current iPad mini resolution (left) vs. rumored iPad mini 2 resolution (right).


The resolution on the device is said to stand at 2,048 by 1,536 pixels, four times that of the current iPad mini and equal to that of the larger Retina iPad.

Packing the resolution of the larger iPad into the smaller version would allow Apple to have a high-resolution smaller device without making developers have to tailor their apps to yet another screen size. Apple did much the same with the introduction of the current iPad mini, which has the same resolution as the iPad 2.

Apple did add a new resolution to its lineup last fall, when the company launched the iPhone 5 with a taller 4-inch display. But because the iPhone 5 retains the same pixel width as its predecessors, legacy applications can run in a "letterbox" mode with unused space at the top and bottom of the screen.

Rumors of a high-density display in the next version of the iPad mini are nothing new, having persisted since the device's introduction. While Apple was criticized in some media outlets when the iPad mini debuted due to the lack a Retina-level display, the mini has seen strong sales in the months since its release. Supplies of the tablet have only recently begun to approach demand.
post #2 of 83

No way, man. That's crazy. What, that's like… a display with the quality of a… a retina or something. Crazy talk.

post #3 of 83
Originally Posted by GadgetCanada View Post
I'll buy 4 of these with 32GB of ram.

 

I'd buy anything with 32 gigs of RAM if the price was right. Never will I be able to go back to anything less than 30 gigs anymore…

post #4 of 83
I'm not sure why AI is finally picking up on this so long after it's been worked out and why they are reporting an incorrect PPI.

Let's look at how Apple decided on the 7.85" iPad display size.

  1. They wanted to use the iPad's resolution and by its intrinsic property its aspect ratio
  2. They wanted to reuse known display tech they already have to reduce cost.

That's why we have a 7.85" iPad mini display that is 1024x768 at 163 PPI. When you double the iPad mini resolution you double the PPI to 326. 324 is the result of sloppy math by using sloppy and imprecise math by using a 7.9" size and without any consideration for how the display was chosen.

Shameful that this was reported at all, much less re-report by AI. Bottom line: It'll use the iPhone's display when the iPad mini goes Retina.


edit: clarified potential ambiguous text.
edit2: proper math, sloppy proof reading. Good thing I don't do this professionally.
Edited by SolipsismX - 2/4/13 at 4:39pm

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post #5 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

No way, man. That's crazy. What, that's like… a display with the quality of a… a retina or something. Crazy talk.

 

 

Yep.  At the predicted 324 ppi, it would be "retina" as long as we hold the screen 11" or more away from our eyes.

post #6 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Bottom line: It'll use the iPhone's display when it goes Retina.

When will iPhone get a retina display?

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post #7 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post


Yep.  At the predicted 324 ppi, it would be "retina" as long as we hold the screen 11" or more away from our eyes.

1) At 324 PPI (why are we now using the value) for someone with 20/20 and excluding all other factors at 11" the PPI only needs to be 312.5.

2) Are you implying that 324 is now a weak PPI to have in a handheld device?

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post #8 of 83
It will definitely happen--at 326 PPI, not 324--but I'd be (pleasantly) surprised if it happens in the next version, even if the next version isn't until fall. I predict Spring 2014.

Challenges to overcome:

1. Power consumption of the display AND of the GPU power needed to drive it. They might make the mini slightly larger and heavier to fit a bigger battery (like the iPad 3) but only very slightly. They won't want it to become a brick. The mini is about portability even more than the full-size iPad is.

2. Yields. This is a big issue: if Apple can manufacture 15 million non-retina Minis but only 10 million retina Minis, say, because of poorer yields, then they'd be turning away 5 million customers by going retina too soon. Subtract a feature, gain customers and sales! That may be the reality.

3. Cost vs. margins. This may be close to being solved already: I think it's the reason Apple left some "headroom" in their Mini pricing. (The non-retina Mini can stay at the low end, at a new low price point. Having both display types also helps the yield problem--but doesn't make it go away: they'd only offer the lowest capacity in non-retina, judging by the iPad 2. They wouldn't want to muddy the waters by having a 32GB non-retina for sale alongside a 16GB retina.)
post #9 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

When will iPhone get a retina display?

Just under three years ago.
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post #10 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


When will iPhone get a retina display?

:)

post #11 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

2. Yields. This is a big issue: if Apple can manufacture 15 million non-retina Minis but only 10 million retina Minis, say, because of poorer yields, then they'd be turning away 5 million customers by going retina too soon. Subtract a feature, gain customers and sales! That may be the reality.

This one may have already been worked out seeing as how this past year was the first time the iPod Touch received the same display as the iPhone. Sure, the iPad mini's display is about 4x larger and likely sells a lot more units than the iPod Touch, but of all the hurdles this one appears to have the best chance of having already been checked off.

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post #12 of 83
This isn't the retina display for the iPad mini at 324 ppi. It's the display for the iPhone Math.

/s

Sarcasm aside, I hope the new iPad mini has a retina display. Put me down for two of them, please. If no retina, I guess I'll get the iPad 5.
post #13 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by GadgetCanada View Post

I'll buy 4 of these with 32GB of ram. This is what I've been waiting for. Now they just need to release a new Thunderbolt display.

 

Now they just need to add support for voice calls (the phone app) and fandroids will shut up forever... 1wink.gif

post #14 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

2) Are you implying that 324 is now a weak PPI to have in a handheld device?

 

Nope    But since you brought it up, are you?

post #15 of 83

The iPad mini with Retina Display will be held closer to your face, so it needs to be a higher res.

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post #16 of 83
Here we go again, Jony Ive asking for more that Tim Cook can deliver on. /s

Seriously, we've now heard that the mini screen will be G/F2 (DITO), and probably IGZO to keep the thickness and weight down, and still be able to drive a retina screen within the new form factor that Ive and crew have established as the standard. This overreaching is going to cost Apple sales, because of shortages, and it will cost them on their margins, thus maybe explaining their reticence on guidance.

But these guys aren't messing around when it comes to raising the bar on quality—if the rumors are true.
post #17 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

When will iPhone get a retina display?

He was referring to the iPad mini.
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post #18 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

Nope    But since you brought it up, are you?

1) You made a false and seemingly pejorative comment that made the PPI look worse than it was hence my query.

2) I made a very precious comment as to Apple's stated definition of Retina Display. A comment you choose to edit out before asking your question. Curious.

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post #19 of 83
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Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

Here we go again, Jony Ive asking for more that Tim Cook can deliver on. /s

Seriously, we've now heard that the mini screen will be G/F2 (DITO), and probably IGZO to keep the thickness and weight down, and still be able to drive a retina screen within the new form factor that Ive and crew have established as the standard. This overreaching is going to cost Apple sales, because of shortages, and it will cost them on their margins, thus maybe explaining their reticence on guidance.

But these guys aren't messing around when it comes to raising the bar on quality—if the rumors are true.

If they can get retina into the mini's design/form factor all I can say is:

 

post #20 of 83
Oh great. Having said that - the iPad sans retina is totally usable. Retina is nice and I like nice, but I never catch myself thinking "damn, I wish this was just 'that' much sharper".
post #21 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


1) You made a false and seemingly pejorative comment that made the PPI look worse than it was hence my query.

 

Sorry, you've lost me.   What was "false"?

 

If you mean the distance, I used a chart using a formula derived from eye research that a lot of us used long before Apple later posted a formula.   Is that what you're freaking out over?

 

Fine.  What distance do you come up with for 324 PPI  to make it "retina"?  Is it so different from my rounded off 11" ?

 

Good grief.  1rolleyes.gif


Edited by KDarling - 2/4/13 at 12:41pm
post #22 of 83

Perfect.  Of course, production capacity for such displays will be 1/2 of the capacity for the older panel so production will suffer, delays will occur and fanboys will claim that demand must just be super duper ;)  

post #23 of 83
Larger form size, more weight, more heat and less battery life (obviously battery life and weight/size are gonna be related). No thanks.
post #24 of 83
Originally Posted by Captain J View Post
Larger form size

 

Gonna be exactly the same size…

post #25 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

Oh great. Having said that - the iPad sans retina is totally usable. Retina is nice and I like nice, but I never catch myself thinking "damn, I wish this was just 'that' much sharper".

 

I totally agree.  People also forget the downsides to Retina:

1) Weight

2) Size

3) Battery life

4) Potentially slower (unless better graphics are used, which results in problem #3)

5) Consumption of storage capacity

6) Heat

 

It's #5 that gets me the most.  The extra resolution means much larger file sizes for images and other content.  If you're fine with a lower capacity iPad, that's cool, but for me 64GB isn't enough even without the Retina.

post #26 of 83
I don't envision this as replacement for iPad Mini but a Retina Mini model that sells for a $50-$75 price premium to $329 entry level. Apple may even forgo a 16 GB Retina entry model.
post #27 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by macslut View Post

 

I totally agree.  People also forget the downsides to Retina:

1) Weight

2) Size

3) Battery life

4) Potentially slower (unless better graphics are used, which results in problem #3)

5) Consumption of storage capacity

6) Heat

 

It's #5 that gets me the most.  The extra resolution means much larger file sizes for images and other content.  If you're fine with a lower capacity iPad, that's cool, but for me 64GB isn't enough even without the Retina.

 

As someone who uses the mini a lot, day in and day out, I think 4 is far more worrying to me.  

 

I never even notice that it's not retina and haven't lost a seconds thought about it since I first picked it up, but what I do notice is the underpowered nature of the device itself.  It's slow.  Quite noticeably in some situations.  It really needs a more powerful processor and more RAM.  

 

My main worry is that in making it "Retina" (apparently only to please John Gruber and a few other weenies that care about such things), they are upping the power and processing requirements significantly.  

 

I'd hate to see a Retina iPad mini with a bigger processor and more RAM that effectively is still "slow" simply because of Retina.  

post #28 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

Perfect.  Of course, production capacity for such displays will be 1/2 of the capacity for the older panel so production will suffer, delays will occur and fanboys will claim that demand must just be super duper ;)  


Can you explain why production capacity for 326 ppi panels will be 1/2 the capacity of 163 ppi panels?

post #29 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Gonna be exactly the same size…


Can we be sure? IPad 3 was thicker and heavier than iPad 2.

post #30 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post


Can you explain why production capacity for 326 ppi panels will be 1/2 the capacity of 163 ppi panels?

Can you explain why it wouldn't?

post #31 of 83
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post
Can we be sure? IPad 3 was thicker…

 

.34" vs. .37".

 

Ooo~ so thick. And that was before the laminated screen whoozits, so I don't imagine it being a problem anymore.

post #32 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

Can you explain why it wouldn't?

 


In other words, you don't know what you are talking about ... again.

post #33 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

.34" vs. .37".

 

Ooo~ so thick. And that was before the laminated screen whoozits, so I don't imagine it being a problem anymore.


"Gonna be exactly the same size…"

 

:)

post #34 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

 


In other words, you don't know what you are talking about ... again.

Yeah I get it - anyone who questions Apple's decisions, even RUMORED ones, gets shouted down or proof is demanded.  Those on the other side... well of course, you can assume that Apple will have no trouble producing these panels, despite recent evidence of production problems with high PPI panels.  Why would any member of the public KNOW about their production capabilities?  Why would you?  Why would I?  But I sure know that they have had a LOT of trouble with these displays in the past year on various products.

 

Real solid strategy you fanboys have there.  That way, you'll never know what hit you (er, Apple) until it's too late.  Great strategy!  Duhhhh

post #35 of 83

I'm really surprised all the focus is still on producing higher res screens and so little is being focused on reducing screen glare.  Apple did a pretty good job with the iMac, but the iPad (4 for me) is just too reflective under too many situations.  They've (Corning) figured out how to make the glass thin, strong, scratch resistant and (relatively speaking) light - why no focus on glare resistance or reduction?

post #36 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain J View Post

Larger form size, more weight, more heat and less battery life (obviously battery life and weight/size are gonna be related). No thanks.

Yeah because Apple would actually release something like that. 1oyvey.gif

post #37 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

Yeah I get it - anyone who questions Apple's decisions, even RUMORED ones, gets shouted down or proof is demanded.  Those on the other side... well of course, you can assume that Apple will have no trouble producing these panels, despite recent evidence of production problems with high PPI panels.  Why would any member of the public KNOW about their production capabilities?  Why would you?  Why would I?  But I sure know that they have had a LOT of trouble with these displays in the past year on various products.

 

Real solid strategy you fanboys have there.  That way, you'll never know what hit you (er, Apple) until it's too late.  Great strategy!  Duhhhh

 


Simple question, and I will ask nicely: Why would capacity for producing 326 ppi panels be half that of 163 ppi panels?

 

This is not about Apple, being a fanboy or strategy. It's a simple question based on something you wrote. Perhaps you can teach me something?

post #38 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Yeah because Apple would actually release something like that. 1oyvey.gif


Well, they have before. It was called iPad 3.

post #39 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

If they can get retina into the mini's design/form factor all I can say is:



I would probably follow suit only if they finally release iBooks for OS X (or there is some other way to view, navigate and save EPUBs nicely) on a Mac otherwise my tech books will likely keep pushing me toward the 10" variety.

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post #40 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

Perfect.  Of course, production capacity for such displays will be 1/2 of the capacity for the older panel so production will suffer, delays will occur and fanboys will claim that demand must just be super duper 1wink.gif  
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

Yeah I get it - anyone who questions Apple's decisions, even RUMORED ones, gets shouted down or proof is demanded.  Those on the other side... well of course, you can assume that Apple will have no trouble producing these panels, despite recent evidence of production problems with high PPI panels.  Why would any member of the public KNOW about their production capabilities?  Why would you?  Why would I?  But I sure know that they have had a LOT of trouble with these displays in the past year on various products.

Real solid strategy you fanboys have there.  That way, you'll never know what hit you (er, Apple) until it's too late.  Great strategy!  Duhhhh


You can get upset and say that you are being pounded for questioning Apple but you aren't. In this and the previous thread you excused yourself from you were presenting statements as factual without anything to back them up. If you're being asked about how you came to your results it's because others are curious. Why should anyone accept blindly something you or anyone says that you aren't willing to verify or back up? That doesn't mean you need proof to state a hypothesis but it does mean you need to articulate yourself so others can understand where you are coming from.

In the previous thread you made a closed statement that didn't allow for any other possibility and in this one you are stating that production would be halved. You didn't say that the double density displays would be harder to produce and state various reasons why this makes sense; you stated they could only produce half as many.

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