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Dell going private in $24.4B deal, aided by $2B loan from Microsoft - Page 2

post #41 of 74
2/5/13 at 9:27am

How does this work?

 

Does this mean that anybody who was a shareholder as of yesterday, is no longer a shareholder today? And all of their shares have gotten bought out with a 25% premium?

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post #42 of 74
2/5/13 at 9:29am

BA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! This is great.


Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post
I'm surprised that no one has yet commented on the possible implications of Microsoft purchasing a large stake in Dell.

 

Microsoft is going to make their own computers now. I would have thought that goes without saying.


Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post
I think we can finally let that Michael Dell quote go.

 

Not until it's shut down entirely, we can't. lol.gif


Originally Posted by Sector7G View Post
You can all make jokes about dell, but the truth is they are now free to take time on products, make sure they are right tested and well made, without the "investors" forcing them to always make a quick buck over the long term…
 

And so why is Apple able to do this and Dell hasn't ever been able to? 


…thats something apple used to have with steve jobs, because no one questioned steve jobs…

 

YEAH. RIGHT.


…i personally hope dell is very successful.


I hope they slip into the night without anyone noticing.

PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #43 of 74
2/5/13 at 9:31am
You can all make jokes about dell, but the truth is they are now free to take time on products, make sure they are right tested and well made, without the "investors" forcing them to always make a quick buck over the long term, thats something apple used to have with steve jobs, because no one questioned steve jobs, apple is now under presure to make cheap phones for china, big screen phones, being mocked for not being a volume dealer, even on the news of record results i personally hope dell is very succesful.
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post #44 of 74
2/5/13 at 9:36am

really liked your "yeah right" answer well thought out. i did explain why apple WAS able to do that. steve jobs

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post #45 of 74
2/5/13 at 9:42am

"Dude(s), you're getting a Dell!"

"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #46 of 74
2/5/13 at 9:43am

Well, well! What a strange move by Microsoft. I struggle to see what benefits MS will get from this. 

 

MS are a whole hamper short of a picnic recently. 'Doomed' I think is the appropriate word.

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post #47 of 74
2/5/13 at 9:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I think we can finally let that Michael Dell quote go.

 

Maybe....but that prophetic quote will live on in infamy.

Why does Apple bashing and trolling make people feel so good?

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Why does Apple bashing and trolling make people feel so good?

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post #48 of 74
2/5/13 at 9:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post

I could care less about Dell, but this is a good move for them. 

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=I%20could%20care%20less

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post #49 of 74
2/5/13 at 9:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

I'm surprised that no one has yet commented on the possible implications of Microsoft purchasing a large stake in Dell.

Well they got SOMETHING in return, but what? We know that when Microsoft invested in Apple, they cross-licensed each others patents and Microsoft agreed to continue making Office for Mac, and Apple made Internet Explorer the default browser on OS X for a few years.

What did Microsoft get from Dell?
"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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post #50 of 74
2/5/13 at 9:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I think we can finally let that Michael Dell quote go.

I guess it pays to be careful what you say, you never know what people will remember.

 

Paraphrasing Chairman Eric Schmidt:  "If you don't want people remembering what you say -- perhaps you shouldn't be saying it in the  first place!"

"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #51 of 74
2/5/13 at 9:53am
Originally Posted by Sector7G View Post
really liked your "yeah right" answer well thought out. i did explain why apple WAS able to do that. steve jobs

 

You're completely wrong about that. That's why I questioned you.

PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #52 of 74
2/5/13 at 10:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple II View Post

How does this work?

Does this mean that anybody who was a shareholder as of yesterday, is no longer a shareholder today? And all of their shares have gotten bought out with a 25% premium?

They have to agree to it:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/dell-to-go-private-in-244-billion-deal-2013-02-05-10103550?link=MW_pulse

"The plan must still be approved by Dell shareholders. Sterne Agee analyst Shaw Wu speculated that approval is not guaranteed, saying, “there’s practically no premium” in the deal."
“The big question is: Will investors approve the deal?” he told MarketWatch. “There’s a chance they won’t. There’s a possibility that shareholders might reject this deal, so we’ll have to see.”

It's not clear if they've already agreed or not, it looks like unaffiliated shareholders still have to vote on it.
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post #53 of 74
2/5/13 at 10:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

Well said....I put Dell in that class of companies that are just trying to sell "crap" as expensively as possible to a lot of unsuspecting customers. I like companies that "best in class" is already in their DNA. If I worked for Dell, I would be ashamed of the sh*t they have been producing! 1smile.gif

I don't get this rep that dell has. I've had pretty good experience with the feel products I've used:

I have their 27" display as my main monitor, and it is by far the best display I've ever used. And yes that includes apples.

We have a few of their high end optiplex workstations here at work, and while they may not be the best looking things in the office, they are well designed and well built.

Though I must confess to bring a ThinkPad fan, I must admit I've been impressed by their latitude laptops.
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post #54 of 74
2/5/13 at 10:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofy1958 View Post

A question.  Do you have much experience with Dell consumer products?  We have an 8 year old Dell desktop, a 6 year old Dell desktop, we have 3 laptops that are 5 years old, and all are working great and have never had an issue (except when my son dropped his, but warranty fixed everything for free!).  I just don't see the "crap" part to Dell products?!??!?  I previously had an HP laptop, and it lasted all of 2 years before I was hit with multiple issues that would have cost more to fix than a new laptop!

 

I am considering a MacBook Pro for my next laptop though, but have to save for awhile before I can afford it.


My work Dell laptops work pretty well. Haven't had a problem, although the screen wiggles a little. But that's after 2 years. Works fine for me. However, I do love my MacBook.

 

I had an HP laptop, also, and it was junk. But I only paid $250 for it. It worked for the price.

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post #55 of 74
2/5/13 at 10:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post

I could care less about Dell, but this is a good move for them. 

I disagree 100% with you, I couldn't care less about Dell!
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #56 of 74
2/5/13 at 10:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek View Post

Have the Brits been out in force regarding this expression before then?

I don't remember the specific people or their nationalities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by majjo View Post

I don't get this rep that dell has. I've had pretty good experience with the feel products I've used:

I have their 27" display as my main monitor, and it is by far the best display I've ever used. And yes that includes apples.

We have a few of their high end optiplex workstations here at work, and while they may not be the best looking things in the office, they are well designed and well built.

Though I must confess to bring a ThinkPad fan, I must admit I've been impressed by their latitude laptops.

Dell's Ultrasharp line is generally good. That line uses IPS panels.

Workstations and business laptops are usually good from many brands. The consumer units is where you get hit or miss.

My personal experience interacting with the company was pretty poor. I was ordering a BTO Dell a year or two ago, every step of the way, it said 2 weeks. After I did the final purchase confirmation, the page said 4 weeks. And I couldn't cancel it. I'd understand if they already assembled my model, but I doubt it when there was a 4 week wait.
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post #57 of 74
2/5/13 at 11:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I don't remember the specific people or their nationalities.
Dell's Ultrasharp line is generally good. That line uses IPS panels.

Workstations and business laptops are usually good from many brands. The consumer units is where you get hit or miss.

My personal experience interacting with the company was pretty poor. I was ordering a BTO Dell a year or two ago, every step of the way, it said 2 weeks. After I did the final purchase confirmation, the page said 4 weeks. And I couldn't cancel it. I'd understand if they already assembled my model, but I doubt it when there was a 4 week wait.

No idea on the overall quality, factory calibration, or value for the money but Monoprice's sub-$400 27" IPS display looks like a bargain. I've been using them for years. I even live in a state where they offer Next Day delivery for $5 which makes me look good when I have to order a lot of supplies and can have it the next day.

Even if you are planning to stay in the Apple camp for various reasons (e.g.: quality, repair convenience, extra features, appearance) the more recent push for low-cost 27" 2560x1440 display could be a sign of Apple lowering the price of their 27" ATD, and/or offering a larger and/or higher pixel density option.

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post #58 of 74
2/5/13 at 11:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

No idea on the overall quality, factory calibration, or value for the money but Monoprice's sub-$400 27" IPS display looks like a bargain. I've been using them for years. I even live in a state where they offer Next Day delivery for $5 which makes me look good when I have to order a lot of supplies and can have it the next day.

Even if you are planning to stay in the Apple camp for various reasons (e.g.: quality, repair convenience, extra features, appearance) the more recent push for low-cost 27" 2560x1440 display could be a sign of Apple lowering the price of their 27" ATD, and/or offering a larger and/or higher pixel density option.
Hmm... Haven't heard of the mono price 27". Is it a rebrand of one of those Korean 27"s (catleap/shimian/crossover)
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post #59 of 74
2/5/13 at 11:22am

SOT:

 

Market Cap:

 

$430 B AAPL 

$405 B XOM

"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
post #60 of 74
2/5/13 at 11:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


Well they got SOMETHING in return, but what? We know that when Microsoft invested in Apple, they cross-licensed each others patents and Microsoft agreed to continue making Office for Mac, and Apple made Internet Explorer the default browser on OS X for a few years.

What did Microsoft get from Dell?

 

 

Off topic, but Microsoft didn't just decide to "invest" in Apple. Apple released Quicktime on Windows, which smoked Windows' video rendering. Apple wouldn't give Microsoft a license. So, Microsoft went out an hired the same company Apple subcontracted to create the video compression software. The problem is Microsoft didn't have the company develop the software in a clean room, and the company used Apple's code that it gave to Microsoft verbatim thereby violating Apple's copyrights (Apple owned the software the company created for it). This allowed Microsoft to undercut Quicktime by bringing a product to market a lot quicker. Apple sued Microsoft over it, and the Department of Justice was interested in the matter. Apple and Microsoft were working on a settlement, but the CEO before Jobs wanted a complicated settlement worked out. Microsoft was playing hard ball with Apple by withholding Office updates, which was hurting Apple because people thought the lack of Office would be the death of the Mac platform. When Jobs came back to Apple, he called Gates up and a settlement was worked out quick. Apple wanted a five year commitment from Microsoft to create Windows Office, which was nothing for Microsoft because it was making at least 50 million a year on Office for the Mac (even without any significant updates). Apple also got Microsoft to pay Apple an undisclosed 150 million dollars and give Apple an additional 150 million that Apple would provide Microsoft non voting stock in return. As you mention, Microsoft also got to be the default browser on the Mac, and they cross licensed some patents. 

 

I bring this up because the main thing Microsoft got out of the deal was for Apple to drop its lawsuit, and the Justice Department to go away. Microsoft did a similar thing to Sony. Sony paid hundreds of millions for IBM to develop the Power PC processor it was going to use in its Play Station. Microsoft then got a very similar processor from IBM for its X-Box for much less because IBM just modified the work it did for Sony. 

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post #61 of 74
2/5/13 at 11:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


No idea on the overall quality, factory calibration, or value for the money but Monoprice's sub-$400 27" IPS display looks like a bargain. I've been using them for years. I even live in a state where they offer Next Day delivery for $5 which makes me look good when I have to order a lot of supplies and can have it the next day.

Even if you are planning to stay in the Apple camp for various reasons (e.g.: quality, repair convenience, extra features, appearance) the more recent push for low-cost 27" 2560x1440 display could be a sign of Apple lowering the price of their 27" ATD, and/or offering a larger and/or higher pixel density option.

 

 

I read about the Monoprice monitor. Seems like it offers a high quality screen with very little extra features for about $50 dollars more than comparable displays from the cheap korean manufacturers. The benefit is the display is being offered by an American company so if something goes wrong people have better recourse. 

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post #62 of 74
2/5/13 at 11:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by majjo View Post

Hmm... Haven't heard of the mono price 27". Is it a rebrand of one of those Korean 27"s (catleap/shimian/crossover)

Forgot to post a link.


I have no idea if they are just putting their name on some foreign brand or some other combination of questionable quality and reliability.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post


I read about the Monoprice monitor. Seems like it offers a high quality screen with very little extra features for about $50 dollars more than comparable displays from the cheap korean manufacturers. The benefit is the display is being offered by an American company so if something goes wrong people have better recourse. 

Sounds like a reasonable assumption to me. The nature of Monoprice's business could mean that they calibrate their monitors before shipping to customers. I look forward to AnandTech(?) putting it through its paces.

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post #63 of 74
2/5/13 at 12:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

Can't wait to see Apple doing the same (for different reasons).

I really like what Dell is doing. Ubuntu high end laptops, more quality, etc. It's a shame they accepted Microsoft's bribe, so we won't see high-class chromebooks...

I really hope they go head on software and services, maybe even a new Office suite to compete on the windows market (that's still huge), more contribution to open source, mac apps (this one would be great). 

You'll be waiting a looong time for Apple to do anything like this deal.

You can kiss any Dell Ubuntu gear goodbye, and there is NO prospect of them ever doing a Chromebook now. MS will be dictating the terms and you can bet those are top of their agenda. Any chance Dell had to escape the Microsoft death grip is now gone.

Oh yes, software and services, Dell have shown what masters of software they are over many years! And all they need is a new version of Office to turn things around. Pssst, wanna buy a bridge?
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post #64 of 74
2/5/13 at 1:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post


Off topic, but Microsoft didn't just decide to "invest" in Apple. Apple released Quicktime on Windows, which smoked Windows' video rendering. Apple wouldn't give Microsoft a license. So, Microsoft went out an hired the same company Apple subcontracted to create the video compression software. The problem is Microsoft didn't have the company develop the software in a clean room, and the company used Apple's code that it gave to Microsoft verbatim thereby violating Apple's copyrights (Apple owned the software the company created for it). This allowed Microsoft to undercut Quicktime by bringing a product to market a lot quicker. Apple sued Microsoft over it, and the Department of Justice was interested in the matter. Apple and Microsoft were working on a settlement, but the CEO before Jobs wanted a complicated settlement worked out. Microsoft was playing hard ball with Apple by withholding Office updates, which was hurting Apple because people thought the lack of Office would be the death of the Mac platform. When Jobs came back to Apple, he called Gates up and a settlement was worked out quick. Apple wanted a five year commitment from Microsoft to create Windows Office, which was nothing for Microsoft because it was making at least 50 million a year on Office for the Mac (even without any significant updates). Apple also got Microsoft to pay Apple an undisclosed 150 million dollars and give Apple an additional 150 million that Apple would provide Microsoft non voting stock in return. As you mention, Microsoft also got to be the default browser on the Mac, and they cross licensed some patents. 

I bring this up because the main thing Microsoft got out of the deal was for Apple to drop its lawsuit, and the Justice Department to go away. Microsoft did a similar thing to Sony. Sony paid hundreds of millions for IBM to develop the Power PC processor it was going to use in its Play Station. Microsoft then got a very similar processor from IBM for its X-Box for much less because IBM just modified the work it did for Sony. 
Isnt the IBM Power PC processor also the one Apple switched to from Motorola. I seem to remember Power Macs being part of the origional dev platform for xbox 360.

Overall that makes Microsoft sound like a very innocent party. Whenever you outsorce some one work you would look for a company that has done something similar in the past. And you also have to accept that if you outsource some work, that other company is going to retain the knowlege and sell it in the future.
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post #65 of 74
2/5/13 at 4:32pm
Seriously, who cares!
There are 5000 MS patents for the pc and every damn one is in a Dell. As a matter of fact Dell aint nothing but a marionette for Microsoft.
And with 2 billion in MS money Ballmer can now dictate what color underwear Michael Dell can wear to work.
Jesus take the wheel!
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post #66 of 74
2/5/13 at 4:35pm

You ain't lying. Ballmer can now take out the whip and chains and really start slapping that a** at Dell.

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post #67 of 74
2/5/13 at 7:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek View Post

How much less could you care for them as a company? Personally I couldn’t care less, but based on your statement I deduce that you must care for them, at least a little bit.

Groan. Not that one, again.

Both are correct.
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post #68 of 74
2/5/13 at 7:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Apple 
[" url="/t/155811/dell-going-private-in-24-4b-deal-aided-by-2b-loan-from-microsoft/30#post_2271466"]How does this work?

Does this mean that anybody who was a shareholder as of yesterday, is no longer a shareholder today? And all of their shares have gotten bought out with a 25% premium?

That's just about right. Unless a higher offer is received in the next 180 days.
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post #69 of 74
2/5/13 at 7:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sector7G View Post

You can all make jokes about dell, but the truth is they are now free to take time on products, make sure they are right tested and well made, without the "investors" forcing them to always make a quick buck over the long term, thats something apple used to have with steve jobs, because no one questioned steve jobs, apple is now under presure to make cheap phones for china, big screen phones, being mocked for not being a volume dealer, even on the news of record results i personally hope dell is very succesful.

Spot on. (Although I doubt that Dell has something new and different in it; but that's a different issue).
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post #70 of 74
2/5/13 at 7:45pm
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post
That's just about right. Unless a higher offer is received in the next 180 days.

 

Now's the time.

 

Apple buys Dell for more than Microsoft would be willing to pay, keeping Microsoft from making their own hardware.

 

Then Apple takes the patents, manufacturing plants, and competent people, shuts it down entirely, and gives the money back to the shareholders.

PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #71 of 74
2/6/13 at 6:18am
One down, hundreds to go.

(public ownership is bad)
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post #72 of 74
2/6/13 at 6:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry 
And with 2 billion in MS money Ballmer can now dictate what color underwear Michael Dell can wear to work.

The whole deal was $24.4b so I'm not sure how much control Microsoft's $2b will get them. It's a loan too, so that sounds like they expect it to be repaid. $15b is from banks and Michael Dell put in $700m and there were others who put in money to make up the total.

The only influence I could see Microsoft wanting would be for Dell to tone down selling Linux machines to enterprise customers. They won't want to be seen doing Dell any favours because they have other partners like HP to keep happy too.
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post #73 of 74
2/9/13 at 2:06pm

There's news that Dell's plan to go private may not be a done deal afterall.

 

According to Barrons:

 

"Michael Dell's deal to take his namesake company private initially was treated as a near certainty on Wall Street. But there's a reasonable chance that shareholder resistance will scuttle the transaction. The company's leading outside shareholder, Southeastern Asset Management, said Friday that it plans to oppose the deal, which it says "grossly undervalues the company."

 

The Southeastern position could galvanize Dell holders, many of whom are unhappy with the low price that Michael Dell plans to pay. Southeastern, which holds an 8.5% stake, said it plans to "avail itself of all options" to kill the deal."

 

http://online.barrons.com/article/SB50001424052748704372504578287960502012492.html?mod=BOL_hpp_mag#articleTabs_article%3D1

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #74 of 74
2/9/13 at 7:32pm
The minimal premium they're offering makes it sound like they're holding together a coalition with duct tape and bailing twine. If they get soundly rejected then I'd hope they have a realistic second offer, the first one seems like it's a deliberate insult to shareholders.
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